Is she real?

[doGmaI]

0401-3503244
tdbg5-b102819


As i said in the presentation, I found this site 'cause I'm exchanging a lot of mails with this "russian girl" and I want to be sure she's real before letting her come to visit me.

I found this girl on a site (I don't know if I can post its address, but it's well known all around the world
I contaced her 'cause her picture was really cute, and in the profile the translation of the site has an error and it reported "brescia" as her living city (the same as mine)
I wrote her through the integrated message system of the site, and she replied me giving her email address (@googlemail.com)

We wrote each other a lot of mail (till today we have written more than 100 emails)

Now we're talking about visiting each other.

What fatcs let me think she's a fake

• one time she wrote me 2 times the same mail. I'm not sure if it has something to do with an error of gmail that occurred that day (the email I sent her asking why she wrote me two times the same mail, was displayed before her "duplicate email" in the list of message received/sent
• I found a name very very similar to her on this site http://www.chanceforlove.com/blacklist/gss/. Her name is Tatyana, on this site there is Tatiana... I just asked her, her address, to compare them

What facts let me think she's not a fake

• Her emails seems very personal: she usuall answer my question in the correct way
• Her pictures are beautiful (she's beautiful) but not perfect: some pictures have common errors (like too much light too dark and so on

...

[I/O]

As i said in the presentation, I found this site 'cause I'm exchanging a lot of mails with this "russian girl" and I want to be sure she's real before letting her come to visit me.

OMG...!!! How generous of you to consider "Letting" her come to visit you.

I see something similar to the photo below in your future...................

I/O

[SANDRO43]

As i said in the presentation, I found this site 'cause I'm exchanging a lot of mails with this "russian girl" and I want to be sure she's real before letting her come to visit me.

Consideriing Italy is a Schengen country, how easily do you figure she'll get a visa ? Package tour through a travel agency ?

Have a look at the ScamCard (Scam Avoidance menu at left), and see if you can pick up any extra red flags .

[tim 360]

"Comin' to visit ya?"  Is she comin' for the weekend or maybe wee bit longer?  Ya might wanna get some visa info before she suddenly arrives on your doorstep.  An' ya might wanna do some readin' here too.  It might be of help.  Because she might suddenly become short of money for the trip and you might want to help the poor beautiful girl out to come and visit ya.  Read first the FAQ's,  G'night

[Shadow]

Allright lets look in to this, as there are some contradictions.

1. You found her on a worldwide known site. You can mention it here without a problem by the way.
Did you find her, or did you get a message from her first ? That is a difference that might turn the thing in one direction or the other.

2. She had in her profile 'Brescia'. That is not a translation error. It is a clear attempt to attract people from Italy. One of the reasons can be that the site does not allow Russian profiles.

3. You have written over 100 e-mails. Is that a correct number ? If so, she has invested some time in you, and if she has not yet asked for money it is kind of a long time. Scammers usually plant their fisrt request after 10-15 mails.

The name Tatiana and Tatyana is the same. The second way of writing is Ukrainian. She could also be listed as Tanya, Tanusha and a number of other names. They are all derived from the same name.

Now for the follow up to find out the truth:
1. Get her telephone number. Unless she is from a village she will  have a cellphone and if she is interested she will be very happy o hear your voice. If she gives it, call her. If she has excuses, major red flag.
2. Do not plan for her to visit you. Instead plan to visit her.Flights from Italy are cheap (I used a connection through Italy to save on ticket cost). If you plan over a weekend, you need only 1 or 2 days off work to have a short meeting.
3. Meet her in her town. Not in a different place.
If she starts telling stories about how dull and bad her home town is, again major red flag. Yes, in the current winter it might be a challenge to reach a smaller city, but that should not be a real problem.

And just in case you did not understand it yet:
Do not send money

[William3rd]

Shadow just about says it all.  It cant be any plainer than this

[doGmaI]

Allright lets look in to this, as there are some contradictions.

1. You found her on a worldwide known site. You can mention it here without a problem by the way.
Did you find her, or did you get a message from her first ? That is a difference that might turn the thing in one direction or the other.

The first message was mine. I found her profile on meetic (www.meetic.it for the italia version).

2. She had in her profile 'Brescia'. That is not a translation error. It is a clear attempt to attract people from Italy. One of the reasons can be that the site does not allow Russian profiles.

Two days after I contacted her, meetic changer it's interface, and her living city changed from Brescia to Kazan. I tought that was an error of the site, 'cause she never connected to meetic after we met, nonetheless, the "original city" changed in description

3. You have written over 100 e-mails. Is that a correct number ? If so, she has invested some time in you, and if she has not yet asked for money it is kind of a long time. Scammers usually plant their fisrt request after 10-15 mails.

We wrote 112 emails. She write me 1 letters every day (and I always reply).
One "bad thing" is that one day I was sick and didn't replied to her previous day mail, and she didn't write to me

The name Tatiana and Tatyana is the same. The second way of writing is Ukrainian. She could also be listed as Tanya, Tanusha and a number of other names. They are all derived from the same name.

Thanks

Now for the follow up to find out the truth:
1. Get her telephone number. Unless she is from a village she will  have a cellphone and if she is interested she will be very happy o hear your voice. If she gives it, call her. If she has excuses, major red flag.

I can ask her, but she wrote me, in one of the first email, that she lives alone and she didn't have phone at home (as she says, she write me everyday from an internet cafe coming home from work)

2. Do not plan for her to visit you. Instead plan to visit her.Flights from Italy are cheap (I used a connection through Italy to save on ticket cost). If you plan over a weekend, you need only 1 or 2 days off work to have a short meeting.

Ok, I'll "change". Instead of her coming here in Italy I'll go to meet her in her place (if she's real )

3. Meet her in her town. Not in a different place.
If she starts telling stories about how dull and bad her home town is, again major red flag. Yes, in the current winter it might be a challenge to reach a smaller city, but that should not be a real problem.

Thanks

And just in case you did not understand it yet:
Do not send money

I already suspected this I told her, I'll eventually help her, but not now. She asked me one time, to send her money even if I still haven't arranged things with my parents, so she can prepare documents, but I told her again, I'll send money when it will be time.

"Comin' to visit ya?"  Is she comin' for the weekend or maybe wee bit longer?  Ya might wanna get some visa info before she suddenly arrives on your doorstep.  An' ya might wanna do some readin' here too.  It might be of help.  Because she might suddenly become short of money for the trip and you might want to help the poor beautiful girl out to come and visit ya.  Read first the FAQ's,  G'night

She didn't say how long she will eventually stay. She said "as long as I want".....

Consideriing Italy is a Schengen country, how easily do you figure she'll get a visa ? Package tour through a travel agency ?

Have a look at the ScamCard (Scam Avoidance menu at left), and see if you can pick up any extra red flags .

About VISA (honestly, I don't know what is this VISA, before starting to talk to her, I tought it was a credit card ) she said she asked informations at a travel agency

I don't seem to get ScamCard to work. I checked every answer, but when I press the button to have the result, it doesn't show anything...

In the meantime, thanks to everyone for every suggestion

[Shadow]

Let me say it this way. In Russia there are more GSM phones as there are inhabitants right now. As having a landline phone is quite expensive due to the infrastructure not being in place, GSM is a cheaper alternative to start for Russians.
Any girl that spends time in an internet cafe is more or less bound to have a phone, they usually prefer a phone above internet cafe.
And besides that, any woman who wants to hear your voice will find a friend with a phone

Kazan is definately not the end of the world, however it is a place where there is a higher change of scam contact.
If she could get visa, she would have to be able to pay for her trip, in which case she would certainly already have a phone.
Beside a tourist visa for Schengen (Italy) is maximum 90 days.

[I/O]

Ok, I'll "change". Instead of her coming here in Italy I'll go to meet her in her place (if she's real )

Now you are understanding. Get that imprinted on your brain, on your hand, on your arse, or wherever it is you look most often. Forget any notion of her making it to you under her own steam first up. (Yes I know Russians can get visas to Italy.)

You (and her) want to meet face to face? You are going there, she is not comming to you, should be your policy. Anything else is flirting with huge risks.

As for the content of her comments about internet cafe's and no phones and rah rah rah, listen up, most of that is nonsense. If she is writing to you everyday, she is writing to others also and she ain't sitting in an internet cafe' to do so. What you have is the classical scammer lines. Call her up on the phone and talk with her. Even one hint that she doesn't have a phone or it is broken or some other BS should send you running.

IMO this one is the base model scammer.

I/O

[tim 360]

DoGmaI,  From the further info you posted above you should be very skeptical of this girl.  Who could very well be a guy named Igor.  It just does not add up and sounds like a very patient scammer with plenty of hooks dangling out there for the unwary.  It is his/her business.  If she can't even speak on the phone--give it up since you are just wasting your time.  Sorry to give you the bad news.  cheers, tim360

[SANDRO43]

She didn't say how long she will eventually stay. She said "as long as I want".....About VISA (honestly, I don't know what is this VISA, before starting to talk to her, I tought it was a credit card ) she said she asked informations at a travel agency

Well, if you intend to pursue an FSU woman, you had better get familiar with the subject . You can start here: http://www.esteri.it/visti/.

I don't seem to get ScamCard to work. I checked every answer, but when I press the button to have the result, it doesn't show anything...

Did you press the Calculate her score button (at bottom left) after giving your answers ?

[Jet]

I can ask her, but she wrote me, in one of the first email, that she lives alone and she didn't have phone at home (as she says, she write me everyday from an internet cafe coming home from work)
She asked me one time, to send her money even if I still haven't arranged things with my parents, so she can prepare documents, but I told her again, I'll send money when it will be time.
She didn't say how long she will eventually stay. She said "as long as I want".....
she said she asked informations at a travel agency

Based on this limited additional information, I'd suggest you proceed with extreme caution.
Out of curiosity, did she specify an amount when she asked for help with preparing the documents? (Costs are not more than $50.00. Anything over that is highly suspect, and a scammer would not waste 100+ e-mails for such a small sum of money)
Suggesting travel to her is an excellent move, if she is indeed setting up a scam she doesn't want you getting anywhere near Kazan (or wherever she/he really is).

[MaxxumUSA]

My radar, sonar, and spidey sense are all tingling pretty rapid.

1.  After spending a lot of time in Russia I know that ALL women have cell phones.  Almost all had two or three - one for home town and one for travel in Russia - and one for travel out of the country.  At a min they had a universal one with multiple sim cards.  Point being - if she does not have a cell and you have not talked on the phone yet - she is probably not real.
  1.a.  Think about it - if this woman was real and truly interested - she WOULD want to talk to you on the phone.

I am currently married to a RW and it took us only 2 or 3 emails to exchange cell numbers.  No biggy for real people with true interest.

2.  It appears she DID ask for some money to help with documents.  MOST single russian women know damn well it is next to impossible to get a visa just to "travel" outside of the country except to a few locations.  AND...  MOST russian women would never ask for money until they are in a relationship with you.

Sorry doGmaI...  I think she's a scammer....  but I have some good news for you.

The good news is this:  You have an interest in international dating.  It can be fun,exciting, and quite an interesting challenge.  NOW...  Go find a real woman.  You can visit any number of real sites and meet real russian women with a true interest in marriage.  I found my wife who lives with me now in the US about 13 months ago at www.elenasmodels.com

So...  Just to keep your options open and so that you know what a real woman is i would encourage you to visit that site and write a few women.

Good luck and best wishes.

- Maxxum

[Daveman]

I can ask her, but she wrote me, in one of the first email, that she lives alone and she didn't have phone at home (as she says, she write me everyday from an internet cafe coming home from work)

Look at her email headers...  search through for The Bat!, it could be a pro version, or it could be another "Email Program". If she's writing from an internet cafe, the headers will indicate a web mailer, not an email program.  Almost all scammers do high volume and need a program which will not only manage the volume of emails but will also allow for macro and/or script programming. 

The choice of the majority of scammers is, without a doubt, our Friendly Winged Rodent of Scamdom The Bat!  If you see this in her email header, it's 100% absolutely a scam in this case.

The connection here is the internet cafe... a personal email program would not be used there unless she owns the cafe.  Trustorthy Agencies and Translators frequently use the same program, however, not from an internet cafe.

Dave

[Shadow]

Look at her email headers...  search through for The Bat!, it could be a pro version, or it could be another "Email Program". If she's writing from an internet cafe, the headers will indicate a web mailer, not an email program.  Almost all scammers do high volume and need a program which will not only manage the volume of emails but will also allow for macro and/or script programming. 

The choice of the majority of scammers is, without a doubt, our Friendly Winged Rodent of Scamdom The Bat!  If you see this in her email header, it's 100% absolutely a scam in this case.

The connection here is the internet cafe... a personal email program would not be used there unless she owns the cafe.  Trustorthy Agencies and Translators frequently use the same program, however, not from an internet cafe.

Dave

As I have used The Bat! (to see what is is and how it works) I can tell that it is very handy for use in internet cafe's or for a computer with internet access shared between friends. The advantage is that it lets you set up multiple profiles that can be either managed from one account (handy for scammers) or managed by the account used for login (internet cafe or shared computer).
As it is produced in Eastern Europe, The Bat! is an alternative to Outlook like Eudora would be used in the US. It is much more secure as webmail.

If you want I can analyze the e-mail header, as there is a lot of information to be found there on the type of connection and computer she is writing from.

[Daveman]

As I have used The Bat! (to see what is is and how it works) I can tell that it is very handy for use in internet cafe's or for a computer with internet access shared between friends. The advantage is that it lets you set up multiple profiles that can be either managed from one account (handy for scammers) or managed by the account used for login (internet cafe or shared computer).
As it is produced in Eastern Europe, The Bat! is an alternative to Outlook like Eudora would be used in the US. It is much more secure as webmail.

If you want I can analyze the e-mail header, as there is a lot of information to be found there on the type of connection and computer she is writing from.

I've used it as well.  It's far more powerful than either Outlook or Eudora, and actually a superb piece of coding.... but to me it seems senseless to download one's email onto the hard drive of a shared computer... which is what it does... at least all of the versions I've seen.

Perhaps times are changing, but I checked for this program specifically at every internet cafe I ever visited.  My guess would be roughly 50 in Ukraine, and about 5 in Russia.  Not one had this program installed on their public access machines, but who knows, perhaps my small sample just missed the ones which do.

The Bat! is simply one indicator of many suggesting more scrutiny is warranted.  The other header information is valuable also..

but the bottom line to avoid being scammed is always the same..

If it seems to good to be true, it is.. and as mentioned. - do NOT send money..  anything else is recreational investigation IMO. 

[doGmaI]

As I have used The Bat! (to see what is is and how it works) I can tell that it is very handy for use in internet cafe's or for a computer with internet access shared between friends. The advantage is that it lets you set up multiple profiles that can be either managed from one account (handy for scammers) or managed by the account used for login (internet cafe or shared computer).

As it is produced in Eastern Europe, The Bat! is an alternative to Outlook like Eudora would be used in the US. It is much more secure as webmail.



If you want I can analyze the e-mail header, as there is a lot of information to be found there on the type of connection and computer she is writing from.

The header of her last email is this (my address is xxxx@gmail.com, "her" address is yyyy@googlemail.com)
Delivered-To: xxxx@gmail.com
Received: by 10.78.107.5 with SMTP id f5cs181890huc;
       Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.141.171.6 with SMTP id y6mr3834761rvo.174.1200322820638;
       Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:20 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <yyyy@googlemail.com>
Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176])
       by mx.google.com with ESMTP id f51si11383842pyh.10.2008.01.14.07.00.17;
       Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:20 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of yyyy@googlemail.com designates 64.233.166.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.233.166.176;

Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of yyyy@googlemail.com designates 64.233.166.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=yyyy@googlemail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@googlemail.com

Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so2686724pyi.11
       for <xxxx@gmail.com>; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:17 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
       d=googlemail.com; s=gamma;
       h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:x-mailer:reply-to:x-priority:message-id:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
       bh=RpGNzPE/pS/Gy/pp1pv2tr93kAVYGB+yGvEwvJn+S2k=;
b=r3CoJYM1s0yCVlw12CCtz/nD3ECtC/DIy/yceuXVImw/Bb6a528SBASF7cTfoDWKEoUPycMOujJD8fpxDOXIn4EAafIoV8dQ3AItSRFE8dHzfkp3tThXt+UDYGBAPRFkWL2HjWwVcXoWfVSCzcvluL5X3QKR2qtkIeiSjFolWgo=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
       d=googlemail.com; s=gamma;
       h=date:from:x-mailer:reply-to:x-priority:message-id:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
b=APCTeCXii06oqtOntlPD+UAGd5Mab5JKovEcHKMk9LPpuVQG2VXjLOJvXk80XKqXPuL9z+ZxsD5l/wuOqCkZ9UbaSHvFyHL0xHjl0lj4FL+ZY0MQQurRCEjZtLYnX8lZHYnU2NBuMbiwbXQMGGqzpyoo6yYqUmghSWUOd1oEUjw=
Received: by 10.65.244.15 with SMTP id w15mr14690632qbr.38.1200322817004;
       Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:17 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <yyyy@googlemail.com>
Received: from aser ( [213.24.121.55])
       by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f12sm4909209qba.32.2008.01.14.07.00.14
       (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
       Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:59:14 +0300
From: yyyy@googlemail.com
X-Mailer: <u>The Bat! (v3.99.3) Professional</u>
Reply-To: yyyy@googlemail.com
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <899106821.20080114175914@googlemail.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?xxxx <xxxx@gmail.com>
Subject: hello
In-Reply-To: <3b1a6e80801140546rbe7ce4bk86b26de4d8df156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b1a6e80711040249v2957c169nd445bb8a2260534a@mail.gmail.com> <18010282115.20080108164820@googlemail.com> <3b1a6e80801081459t327d8cb3qddadc2d07f7eb703@mail.gmail.com> <1513448596.20080109151212@googlemail.com> <3b1a6e80801100124l73ddb3a3h42a71cb930af2dec@mail.gmail.com> <1132008561.20080110184149@googlemail.com> <3b1a6e80801110826p27f1dcd9vec83e0556927ea98@mail.gmail.com> <1673702596.20080112110345@googlemail.com> <3b1a6e80801121410g4ac35b7ej9e9449b41b084ac6@mail.gmail.com> <33960426.20080113173041@googlemail.com> <3b1a6e80801140546rbe7ce4bk86b26de4d8df156@mail.gmail.com>
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Yesterday I asked her, her address through internet and she aswered me with no esistation.
But Serebro, here on the forum, wrote me a PM explaining why that is a fake address (there isn't any street named "prospectus lenina" in kazan.

After this, today I haven't written anything to her, expecting that, if she's really interested in me, she will write sooner or later asking me why I'm not writing her anymore.

But, knowing everything "the forum" wrote, I'm suspecting (I don't to say I'm sure ) that she's a fake...

In the meantime, thanks averyone who showed interested in my "question" and helped me
I'm going to update this post as soon as I get a new email from her, and if she's a fake, I'll report her name+address to every scam site listed here in the forum....

Good night everyone and thanks again

[Shadow]

From the header I alsways watch 2 things. First of all the originating IP. It is a Volga Telecom from Mari-El republic, which is more or less consistent with Kazan.
Also I notices that the sending computer (using The Bat!) is connected directly to the Internet, not through some network.
This is not consistent with a standard internet cafe.

If someone has an internet address of Googlemail, but decides to write from a different e-mail program the only 'legit' possibility is that it is a micro-agency.

As a whole it seems this is raising too many red flags to give anyone here a good feeling.
My advise is now that you have ventured in to some correspondence, try to write some others and see if you can get a better connection. However do not expect them to land on your doorstep.

[SANDRO43]

More to the point, it seems that either:
1. DoGmaI stole some other male member's avatar photo (in which case he is a scammer ), or
2. They're are both using the same G/F's photo in their avatars (in which case she is a scammer ), or
3. They are a trio rather than 2 couples (in which case they are all scammers ).

[acrzybear]

I thought that was a photo of Bon Jovi :noidea:

[doGmaI]

I thought that was a photo of Bon Jovi :noidea:

he's Bon Jovi 

[catzenmouse]

I thought that was a photo of Bon Jovi :noidea:

OMG! Bon Jovi is a scammer!

Those record royalties must have really fallen off...