Second choice......Advise please.

[FredC]

       I'll start this with a little information. My first trip to Ukraine was a WMVM experience. It worked well. From the ladies that I had been writing, there were a couple that there was no chemistry with and a couple that I thought there was mutual chemistry. There was also one lady that I met that I hadn't been writing before my trip that I thought there was mutual chemistry. That trip was a great experience. Being interested in a serious relationship, I chose one lady to concentrate on, it was one of the hardest decisions that I've ever had to make.   
       After that I informed the other ladies that I had made my choice and that I would be concentrating on just her. Last summer I made a two week trip to Kharkov and spent my time with her exclusively. Both trips were great and I had the time of my life.
       Now after my visits and months of communication, things seem to be falling apart. Its all on her end, our emails have all but stopped. She wont tell me what is happening, I guess from what I've read here this is not unusual.
       Here's my question. Does anyone think that I should start over again? Which would be a WMVM. Or should I contact one of the other ladies that I met on my first visit? I'd like to hear from some FSU ladies how they'd feel if they knew that they weren't necessarily their man's first choice.
       Thanks for any words of wisdom. If anyone needs any more details on the back story, ask and I'll answer.

Fred

[William3rd]

Too slow, maybe? What kind of understanding did you two have when you left?

[Shadow]

Too slow seems a good definition of a possible problem. You made a trip and decided to go exclusive with one woman, who without doubt expected that after one (?) year there would be more progress as regular letters.

If you go back, be ready to make a commitment and do not waste your and the women's time.

[jb]

Firstly, telling a woman she's second choice is the kiss of death to ever getting anything back later.  Besides, these 2nd choice ladies may no longer be available.

Secondly: Did you file for a K-1 visa for Ms. "First Choice"?  If she can't wait the 6-8 months for the approval, you are probably better off finding out now rather than later.

If this thing does go tits-up, I'd recommend a fresh start, don't try to recycle old girlfriends.

[wxman]

I agree. No woman wants to be known as the second choice. If you did not consider her number 1 then, I doubt she will have belief that she is now. Most likely, she has moved on, and has not given you a second thought. Leave it be.

If in fact your current relationship is unravelling and there is no chance of saving it, then let it go. If you have invested a lot of yourself (emotionally) then don't jump on another ship sailing by in thinking that a rebound match will solve this situation. Take time off and reevaluate.

[Gator]

I once went back to a woman who had the "hots" for me sometime earlier.  The flame had long burned out and I could tell over the phone that there would never be a chance of starting over.

As everyone else is indicating, start over.  If you go to Ukraine and are near your second and third choices, you can ask them to meet you for tea and coffee and a quick chat.  Do not expect anything, but who knows?

When you find another woman, IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR FIRST WOMAN.  The new women do not want to hear about other women, especially if it sounds as if your heart is aching.  If they ask, give an honest and short summary, then cut it off quickly, saying,  "That is in the past and I am now with you.  I want to talk only about you."

[Jet]

When you find another woman, IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR FIRST WOMAN.  The new women do not want to hear about other women, especially if it sounds as if your heart is aching.  If they ask, give an honest and short summary, then cut it off quickly, saying,  "That is in the past and I am now with you.  I want to talk only about you."

Absolutely, this also falls into the "kiss of death" catagory, no matter if your last G/F was from the FSU or anywhere else!

[groovlstk]

              Now after my visits and months of communication, things seem to be falling apart. Its all on her end, our emails have all but stopped. She wont tell me what is happening, I guess from what I've read here this is not unusual.

The rah rah boys here will try to pin the blame on you for not proposing to her quickly enough, but a more likely explanation is that she had a local bf (or another westerner) and things recently turned serious.

I'd agree w/others who say to start fresh and forget about the old flames. Only a truly desperate woman would let you back into her life after you dumped her for another.

[Turboguy]

Reading between the lines it sounds to me that she wanted action and didn't get it.  You went to see her 6-7-8 months ago and have not gone back and did not start a K-1.  You know the details better than I do but that is my take on that situation.

Gator,  Didn't you sorta go back?   It worked too.  I see no reason not to drop a note to one or two that you really liked and see what happens.   Often you can't go back but sometimes.............

I would agree with the others.  Make sure you are ready before you do anything.  When you are do another WMVM and start over but if you find the right one try to see her often enough to keep things going.   I have one friend who is experiencing some problems and can't make a trip right now and his gal is patiently waiting until the problems get resolved but many girls don't want to be strung along.   They want a serious man.

[FredC]

After reading the comments I'll add. We had agreed to correspond exclusively. I tried to go back in December, but she put me off. I think that could have been the start of the end.
Thanks for all the replies.
Fred

[BillyB]

              Here's my question. Does anyone think that I should start over again? Which would be a WMVM. Or should I contact one of the other ladies that I met on my first visit? I'd like to hear from some FSU ladies how they'd feel if they knew that they weren't necessarily their man's first choice.
       Thanks for any words of wisdom. If anyone needs any more details on the back story, ask and I'll answer.

How good of quality were your second choices? If there is potential it doesn't hurt to contact them again just to get a feel on if they are interested in you. It's been a long time and most likely you will have to start again.

When I wrote a bunch of ladies and chose my fiancee to visit. I wrote a letter to the other's and said something to the effect that I enjoyed my correspondence and new friendship with them but I have chosen another lady to visit and do not want to waste their time or play games. I do not know if I'm making the correct choice at this time but if I find I'm not compatible with the lady I'm visiting, I would like to ask if I could corresponded with you again and possibly visit you?

Surprisingly all ladies agreed they will correspond with me and one lady continued to write me occasionally for over a year to see if I was available. What they saw and respected in me was a man who would not keep them on the hook, deceive, play games, and is capable of being devoted to one lady even though it was not her. Choose your words carefully and you will have your second choices willing to date you if choice number one fails. Fred, your situation is different but some of your second choices should respect you for being a one woman man. Got to respect that.

[Gator]

Turbo,

Yes, I went back.  Three differences:

1.  We had spent 3+ years together.

2.  We maintained contact while apart and became true friends.

3.  She was always my first choice, I just thought she needed a younger man (who entered her life, but she found him inferior overall).

 

[Turboguy]

Yes, Gator, I agree there are differences.  In your case I think you two were meant to be together anyway and sometimes we have to find those things out the hard way.  In your case it had a happy ending.  Sometimes the price we pay for the hard way is a big one.

I think it is hard to go back but in a case where things had not gone too far and if the bridges were not burned too badly then it may be worth a shot for Fred.  He has nothing to loose by sending an eMail and seeing if there is interest.  I think he should be exploring all avenues at this stage.

[jb]

T/G,

Why do you insist on giving such bad advice?   Attempting to recycle an old flame is just plain dumb. 

There are probably half a million women in the world Fred can have a try at, without her having the lingering baggage of having been passed over once before for another, so-called, "better choice".   Even if a woman were desperate enough to swallow her pride and give him another chance, it would always be there between them,,, and she would never forget it.

That's the kind of thing that will rear it's ugly head and bite a man when he least expects it.

[Turboguy]

In the case of a long term relationship I would agree with you jb.  I have heard of it working but it is rare.   

This is more a case where they have had a meeting or two and if he liked them I doubt if it would have any deep, long lasting psychological impact.   I also said he should be exploring all avenues because I agree with you that there are tons of great women and his best shot is more likely starting over. 

[Gator]

If Fred visits some new women near his past "second choices", he could give the "second choices" a call while there.  Most will slam the telephone down, yet maybe one would want a brief meeting.

I still think Fred is wasting his time EVEN IF a second choice wanted to see him.  Why?  We are ignoring an important fact:

THERE IS A REASON WHY THESE WOMEN WERE FRED'S SECOND CHOICE!

Fred should find a new woman who is just as appealing as his past first choice.

Perhaps Fred is now feeling a little depressed from having broken up with his woman, and he is grasping for something that gives him temporary comfort.  He passed these women once, his decision.  There are many, many women in the FSU.

[groovlstk]

Reading between the lines it sounds to me that she wanted action and didn't get it.  You went to see her 6-7-8 months ago and have not gone back and did not start a K-1.  You know the details better than I do but that is my take on that situation.

Sorry TG, but this is hogwash. If the woman expected action and was disappointed at the pace Fred was moving, she'd have SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO HIM, not suddenly stop writing and cut off communication w/him. Why are so many guys here so eager to explain away the behavior of bad RW by blaming it on the man?

I see no reason not to drop a note to one or two that you really liked and see what happens.   Often you can't go back but sometimes.............

More BS. Any woman willing to accept Fred back AFTER he blew her off in favor of another woman does not have Fred's best interests at heart, only her own. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that said interests involve cash, free vacations, and maybe even a green card.

[catzenmouse]

We just got the latest report in:

Groov = Nice Guy ................................................|...... OMB

You're moving right along there. Another month or two and you'll be a fully pledged member of the Union of OMB's Chapter #2106. 

Fred,

 Don't do anything right now. Take a good look inside and at the past situation. Then look for a path forward. Worst thing you could do would be to rush into ANY decision now.

Good Luck,
 Ken

[Turboguy]

Groov, after Fred posted more info I agree it was not a case of wanting action. Personally I would guess either another love interest or second thoughts about marriage to a foreigner. What ever the reason she is history and he needs to pick up the pieces and move on when he is ready.

[groovlstk]

We just got the latest report in:

Groov = Nice Guy ................................................|...... OMB

You're moving right along there. Another month or two and you'll be a fully pledged member of the Union of OMB's Chapter #2106. 

Ken, I can't account for my whereabouts during full moons of the last two lunar cycles, and I've developed a taste for raw meat. Is this part of the transformation to an OMB?

[vwrw]

Ken, I can't account for my whereabouts during full moons of the last two lunar cycles, and I've developed a taste for raw meat. Is this part of the transformation to an OMB?

Rather it is a part of being in a deep depression or maybe in deep frustration.

Sorry TG, but this is hogwash. If the woman expected action and was disappointed at the pace Fred was moving, she'd have SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO HIM, not suddenly stop writing and cut off communication w/him. Why are so many guys here so eager to explain away the behavior of bad RW by blaming it on the man?

Because they do not tend to jump to conclusions to consider a woman to be bad one without sufficient proof.

[groovlstk]

Rather it is a part of being in a deep depression or maybe in deep frustration.

VWRW, this one went over your head, it was a somewhat lame attempt at humor. Look up "werewolf" and you'll understand.

Because they do not tend to jump to conclusions to consider a woman to be bad one without sufficient proof.

While there is not sufficient evidence one way or another, I certainly wouldn't be making excuses for her and blaming the breakup on the man. I met enough bad FSU women during my search to know that most new guys starting out really have no idea what they're getting into. Additionally, I think there are many men here who know better yet are afraid to pull the curtain up for the benefit of newbies, thinking such knowledge may tarnish their gf/fiancee/wife by association. I wouldn't ever compare my wife to such women yet they are legion and they are out there looking for Western men.

[vwrw]

VWRW, this one went over your head, it was a somewhat lame attempt at humor. Look up "werewolf" and you'll understand.

I understood that you made attempt at humor. Just remembering that in each joke there is a part of truth I decided to voice my opinion what could be cause for such a brutal behavior.

[groovlstk]

I understood that you made attempt at humor. Just remembering that in each joke there is a part of truth I decided to voice my opinion what could be cause for such a brutal behavior.

Thanks for the unsolicited diagnosis, but I think it's more than a stretch to describe my behavior as "brutal." Blunt and honest, maybe.

FWIW, I have nothing against anyone on this forum and have never said an unkind word to you or TG, even during your banishment many months ago. But I will not sit back and silently endorse what I consider bad advice. If you want to attribute it to deep depression or deep frustration, knock yourself out.

[BillyB]

THERE IS A REASON WHY THESE WOMEN WERE FRED'S SECOND CHOICE!

Fred should find a new woman who is just as appealing as his past first choice.

Most men's first choices are the wrong choice. Many a good woman were passed over for the sexy dressed, smooth talking woman. Fred may have made a serious error and passed over a gem of a woman for a woman who was never truly "into" him. Who knows? Maybe the second choices were bad choices or maybe not and Fred simply made a bad choice. It's been so long, I don't think Fred's second choices are going to remember him well unless he's the dream man they've been wanting.