Second choice......Advise please.

[KenC]

If we attack the message and not the messenger, and if the messenger not take it personally, there would be more tranquility around here [coming from someone who last week essentially declared acts of sodomy on a respected, long-term member].

I agree with your premise here.

I have noticed that sometimes the so-called bad advice is more bad writing than bad advice, and is misinterpreted.

Or is it back tracking? :noidea:  I have seen bad advice completely reversed upon further explanation.

It is not easy to stay calm and diassociated from the posts, especially if one is passionate about the RW endeavor.  But repeated attacks on the same member is going beyond the pale, even if said member does add some misleading advice on multiple occasions.

  You had me here up until you said "attacks on the same member."  Members who give bad advice are usually repeat offenders, so it is only natural that my antenna go up when I see a new post.  Are you suggesting that we let some misinformation slide so as not to single out one member?  That does not coincide with your last statement:

The most important point - readers need to be told that rubbish is rubbish.

Which I, of course whole heartedly agree.
KenC

[KenC]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6605.0

You will find where you said "if she comes here" and later I/O asking if a story he heard was true about photos posted 3 years ago. He then questioned her existence.

Ken, I/O doesn't know me from 3 years ago and he claims to have heard about a "story" pertaining to photos 3 years ago. So either he is lying that he didn't hear this from someone else and he alone was digging through thousands of my posts for dirt that far back to craft a story himself, or someone actually told him something. You've known me for that long. If you don't want to be a man and admit you are the one PM'ing him sh!t, then that's your choice but I don't believe you. If you want to destroy your credibility in the pursuit of destroying mine, have fun digging!

Billy,
My full statement was "when and if she comes here" is hardly insulting and a truism.  She is not yet here and anything can happen until then.  I am not wishing you any bad luck, but you never know what can happen between now and then.

You accused me of insulting and making up stories about your fiancee.  I asked for you to show them to me.  You cannot because I never made any.

You would do your self a great service if you would stop with your paranoid delusions that there is a conspiracy afoot to defame you or your fiancee.  I do not know of any.
KenC

[Turboguy]

There is absolutely nothing that we can do to stop a train wreck from happening. Those who will end up in that situation will do so regardless of how the clue bat is swung around or how sweet the sugar coating is.

RWD is filled with absolutely great mentors for those who are willing to learn but I'll guarantee that many of them will turn away from good advise when they feel that the adviser is perceived as one of those arrogant asses.

FWIW,
 Ken

Ken, you have made some posts here that show a lot of logic and insight and a lot more knowledge of people and life than many seem to have.   I have to agree that, talk all they want or swing the cluebat all they want, most idiots on the way to a train wreck need to hear the crashing and screeching first hand to have it sink in.  

I think one of the sad things and one of the areas where RWD falls short of its tremendous potential to help people and to change their lives for the better is that some chose to give very good advice in a way it will be passed over and ignored.   I am talking about those who give their opinions in ways that are condescending, taking an attitude of superiority and belligerence.  I think advice delivered that way puts the intended recipient in a defensive mode and accomplishes nothing.

There is a difference between advice and opinions and even if advice or opinions are not good they are better heard than silenced.  Sometimes in my business if I am contemplating an action I will ask customers, employees and friends their thoughts.  Sometimes everyone's ideas may be wrong but something they say will start me thinking of something that may be a really great idea.   If opinions were all like tin soldiers standing in a row there would be little need for them.   Opinions are meant to be diverse, to represent the different thinking of many and as a source of ideas for someone to sort through.   Perhaps you think Hilary is the future saviour of America.  It does not make someone who likes one of the other candidates a bad person who should be crucified.  It is what makes America what it is.   Diverse opinions is also what gives RWD value.

Billy I have to agree with your thoughts here.  I think there are a few who attack just to attack.  Who sit and look for a reason to attack anyone.   I don't think people really want to read that.  They want to learn and to be helped and we all need to take a more positive and helpful tone in our postings and to make RWD a friendly and helpful place.   I hope we can all reflect a little and concentrate our efforts more on helping those who can benefit from the wisdom and experience of ALL the members here.

[Gator]

KenC,

Are you suggesting that we let some misinformation slide so as not to single out one member?

No.  Repeated attacks on the same member is not the same as repeated attacks on misinformation from the same member.  For sure misinformation can not be left untouched.

A difference in opinion is not the same as misinformation.

Yes, a thin line.

If someone keeps taking offence to criticism of his posts, then that someone is thin-skinned and bystanders will soon realize such and give that someone less credibility over time.

[KenC]

To the gang following this thread,
Is "paranoid delusions" over the top? :noidea:  I didn't know how else to explain it. :noidea:  A little help, please?  Sandro?  Where are you when I need ya?
KenC

[Admin]

To the gang following this thread,
Is "paranoid delusions" over the top? :noidea:  I didn't know how else to explain it. :noidea:  A little help, please?  Sandro?  Where are you when I need ya?
KenC

Ken,

In what seems like eons ago - you once counseled me to offer an apology to someone who felt I insulted them, and his wife. It did not matter that I could PROVE that I had never stated what I was accused of stating. What mattered - and you correctly pointed it out to me - was that this other person firmly believed I had made insulting comments. I took your advice.

Do you see a parallel?

- Dan

[KenC]

KenC,
 

No.  Repeated attacks on the same member is not the same as repeated attacks on misinformation from the same member.  For sure misinformation can not be left untouched.

Thank you for the clarification.

A difference in opinion is not the same as misinformation.

Yes, a thin line.

Good point, Gator but the results will be the same in either case, wouldn't they?

If someone keeps taking offence to criticism of his posts, then that someone is thin-skinned and bystanders will soon realize such and give that someone less credibility over time.

I think we are seeing that first hand here.
KenC

[KenC]

Ken,

In what seems like eons ago - you once counseled me to offer an apology to someone who felt I insulted them, and his wife. It did not matter that I could PROVE that I had never stated what I was accused of stating. What mattered - and you correctly pointed it out to me - was that this other person firmly believed I had made insulting comments. I took your advice.

Do you see a parallel?

- Dan

Dan,
Yes I do.

Billyb,
You are mistaken in your thoughts that I some how insulted your fiancee and you are further incorrect in assuming that I am some how involved in a conspiracy to defame her.  You obviously believe differently.  I apologize for anything I may have posted here or else where that may have influenced your mistaken conclusions.
KenC

[Christian]

With an opening line that lends itself to dubious interpretations . Animal husbandry aside...

Sandro,

Perhaps you have never been in the woods?  Or is it your objecting to the NIV's English rendering?  Would "loving hind and pleasant roe" suit you better in Proverbs 5:18f?

Christian

[BillyB]

Ken, you are as sincere in your apologies as you are in forgivness to TG and VWRW.

Someday the guy who whispered in I/O's ear may have enough balls to admit his dirty deed.

[KenC]

Ken, you are as sincere in your apologies as you are in forgivness to TG and VWRW.

Someday the guy who whispered in I/O's ear may have enough balls to admit his dirty deed.

WOW!

Billy,
There is nothing wrong with my balls, but thanks for asking.
KenC

[KenC]

I want to thank Dan and the mods for allowing this thread to play itself out.  I had some things I wanted to say and you allowed me to say them.  This has been an enlightening thread to me and I am sure for others too.
KenC

[BC]

I'd call it a wrap.

[MaxxumUSA]

[BillyB]

Ken, next time I call I/O and his fellow "rumor" buddies lowlifes, don't go around telling everyone here I called you a lowlife as you have been crying about lately. I didn't mention your name at the time and now makes you look like you just admitted guilt when you are affected by what I say. Anybody else's feelings hurt by me calling those involved with a rumor against my fiancee a "lowlife? If you want to sincerely apologize, maybe you can denounce the actions of your buddies and say they acted alone and tell them to confess but you didn't and these past few weeks you act as if I have no right to be upset. Maybe you can give your buddies the cold shoulder treatment as you've done VWRW and TG to show you treat everyone the same. But I suspect you probably gave your buddies a pat on the back instead. Birds of a feather flock together.

[I/O]

Catz: It is not often you and I have been at odds here, but on this particular subject we certainly are. I refer to your post from a few pages back. In my best politically correct, non confrontational style, I most politely, but totally disagree with your sentiments. I would dread to think you might feel in the slightest uncomfortable regarding this, however it seems to me that you are at least slightly misguided.

PC mode off. IMO your post is littered with poorly thought opinion. You have stated to the effect that I, and perhaps a few others get some kind of kick out of insulting people. Utter nonsense. In the post, there is further implications, some kind of group here follows posters around looking to shoot holes in their words. Speaking for myself, this is nonsense. Ken you are capable of thinking much more clearly than that. IMO you have seriously lost it you think the likes of KenC, myself and others even discuss these things very often, much less even talk to each other about anything more than occasionally. Seriously ridiculous.

Train wrecks can't be stopped. Geezus Ken, what in the hell is this place all about if not to help at least some avoid a train wreck. I am more than convinced I have seen at least 3 over the last 12 months who were trainwrecks looking for a place to happen, avoid it because of advice from here. Rough, tough, straight between the eyes, blunt advice. If you can convince me that we can't stop ANY trainwrecks, then please do and you'll have no further problem with me because I would waste no more time or effort here. IMO, as an integral part of RWD, you should have a very serious rethink about that post, IF you believe what you wrote, which frankly I am still trying to take in. It is simply so far wide of the mark.

I certainly DO NOT participate here to get some kind of kudos from being a "Guardian of truth". For me it is a case of a hobby, shooting the schit with guys of common interest AND experience, whilst along the way offering a few corrections to the misguided wish seekers.

Billyb: I seriously doubt anyone is reading your posts from who knows how long ago. I certainly don't nor am I interested in doing so. You are running where none is pursuing. Very often the first sign of guilt. I am not interested in your former girlfriend or the calibre there of. KenC has never PM'd me on that subject, never. (Nor spoken to me by any other means) Billy, I asked you a simple question (Do you actually have a girlfriend or not, or are you simply recycling photos to support your story and have everyone believe you have a girlfriend in order to gain traction with your posts) that was raised with me by another member who had never previously contacted me in any way. This very same question was raised with me from outside RWD sometime earlier and I ignored it because I didn't know the answer, BUT when it was raised with me here, I did two things, 1) I replied that I didn't know and 2) I went public to give the opportunity for the air to be cleared, which BTW it has not been done to date and you continue to post your annoyance on the matter. A simple yes or no umpteen threads/posts ago would have finished it once an for all. I dunno if it is the light air way up there on that high horse that effects your thinking, but it is certainly wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy miscalculated on this subject.

FYI, here is the PM I received which prompted my post way back in the other thread.

I removed my posts however they were in reflection to BillyB. I personally agree with the argument you and KenC have with Billy. I remember BillyB from RWG. Even then he thinks he is mister know it all and if anyone disagrees with him all hell breaks lose. But BillyB has always had the attitude his word is Law and honestly I think he does not know *snip*. I first seen his posts about 3 years ago even back then he was engaged and showed same photos of him and his lady he shows here now. So in a sense it makes someone wonder about this engagement. Personally I do not care but my posts were directed towards him without directly saying so because even those of us who spend alot more time reading get discusted reading his posts. However to let you know I fully agree with you and KenC. Personally I would not take advice from someone who does not have the experience to give it.

I posted the question to you about 3 minutes after reading this PM. Hardly time to go cooking up stories and BTW please don't over estimate your own importance. I remind you of a comment I made a few days back, from my PC, your posts are lightly and seldom scanned. Although I admit taking a slightly deeper interest since you started your recent line of nonsensical thinking.

Reminder: The above PM was received from a a member here, with whom I have never before or since had any contact. Someone who posts very rarely and I don't even recall if they have more than a handful of posts on RWD. It came from left field and was about the last thing I expected.

I suggest Billy, before advising people to shape up or ship out, you 1) Get some facts straight (Which BTW is the thing that started these recent discussions) 2) Check your support base. It might not be quite what you think it is. 3) Answer the questions as asked. (Note the pm comments about this also) 4) Deal in what is written, not what you or anyone else IMAGINES might be going on behind the scenes.

In summary, some of the longest bows are being drawn here and I am really starting to think this place is full of internet freaks who sit in front of PC's letting their imagination run away with them.

Ken, next time I call I/O and his fellow "rumor" buddies lowlifes,

Well done Billy, you are continuing to display your actual class. You don't know what you are talking about and are making wild assumptions. Answer the original question and put it to bed forever. It would do wonders for your blood pressure.

I/O

[Admin]

Catz: It is not often you and I have been at odds here, but on this particular subject we certainly are. I refer to your post from a few pages back. In my best politically correct, non confrontational style, I most politely, but totally disagree with your sentiments. I would dread to think you might feel in the slightest uncomfortable regarding this, however it seems to me that you are at least slightly misguided.

PC mode off. IMO your post is littered with poorly thought opinion. You have stated to the effect that I, and perhaps a few others get some kind of kick out of insulting people. Utter nonsense. In the post, there is further implications, some kind of group here follows posters around looking to shoot holes in their words. Speaking for myself, this is nonsense. Ken you are capable of thinking much more clearly than that. IMO you have seriously lost it you think the likes of KenC, myself and others even discuss these things very often, much less even talk to each other about anything more than occasionally. Seriously ridiculous.

Train wrecks can't be stopped. Geezus Ken, what in the hell is this place all about if not to help at least some avoid a train wreck. I am more than convinced I have seen at least 3 over the last 12 months who were trainwrecks looking for a place to happen, avoid it because of advice from here. Rough, tough, straight between the eyes, blunt advice. If you can convince me that we can't stop ANY trainwrecks, then please do and you'll have no further problem with me because I would waste no more time or effort here. IMO, as an integral part of RWD, you should have a very serious rethink about that post, IF you believe what you wrote, which frankly I am still trying to take in. It is simply so far wide of the mark.

I certainly DO NOT participate here to get some kind of kudos from being a "Guardian of truth". For me it is a case of a hobby, shooting the schit with guys of common interest AND experience, whilst along the way offering a few corrections to the misguided wish seekers.

Billyb: I seriously doubt anyone is reading your posts from who knows how long ago. I certainly don't nor am I interested in doing so. You are running where none is pursuing. Very often the first sign of guilt. I am not interested in your former girlfriend or the calibre there of. KenC has never PM'd me on that subject, never. (Nor spoken to me by any other means) Billy, I asked you a simple question (Do you actually have a girlfriend or not, or are you simply recycling photos to support your story and have everyone believe you have a girlfriend in order to gain traction with your posts) that was raised with me by another member who had never previously contacted me in any way. This very same question was raised with me from outside RWD sometime earlier and I ignored it because I didn't know the answer, BUT when it was raised with me here, I did two things, 1) I replied that I didn't know and 2) I went public to give the opportunity for the air to be cleared, which BTW it has not been done to date and you continue to post your annoyance on the matter. A simple yes or no umpteen threads/posts ago would have finished it once an for all. I dunno if it is the light air way up there on that high horse that effects your thinking, but it is certainly wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy miscalculated on this subject.

FYI, here is the PM I received which prompted my post way back in the other thread.I posted the question to you about 3 minutes after reading this PM. Hardly time to go cooking up stories and BTW please don't over estimate your own importance. I remind you of a comment I made a few days back, from my PC, your posts are lightly and seldom scanned. Although I admit taking a slightly deeper interest since you started your recent line of nonsensical thinking.

Reminder: The above PM was received from a a member here, with whom I have never before or since had any contact. Someone who posts very rarely and I don't even recall if they have more than a handful of posts on RWD. It came from left field and was about the last thing I expected.

I suggest Billy, before advising people to shape up or ship out, you 1) Get some facts straight (Which BTW is the thing that started these recent discussions) 2) Check your support base. It might not be quite what you think it is. 3) Answer the questions as asked. (Note the pm comments about this also) 4) Deal in what is written, not what you or anyone else IMAGINES might be going on behind the scenes.

In summary, some of the longest bows are being drawn here and I am really starting to think this place is full of internet freaks who sit in front of PC's letting their imagination run away with them.
Well done Billy, you are continuing to display your actual class. You don't know what you are talking about and are making wild assumptions. Answer the original question and put it to bed forever. It would do wonders for your blood pressure.

I/O

Billy owes NOBODY an answer to an insulting question. Period.

I have more to say - but no time to compose my thoughts - except to express my intense disappointment at what appears to me to be a 'pack' mentality on the part of a few who seem to take delight in the pain of another.

- Dan

[I/O]

Billy owes NOBODY an answer to an insulting question. Period.

I have more to say - but no time to compose my thoughts - except to express my intense disappointment at what appears to me to be a 'pack' mentality on the part of a few who seem to take delight in the pain of another.

- Dan

Dan,

It is not an insulting question and there is NO pack mentality. The question is simple, are we being told the truth or not? Yes or no? A question of credability. Something this board has prided itself on. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as a pack is concerned, that has been well enough answered, so I would now say, show me the evidence? There isn't any because no pack (with my involvement exists)

A blanket refusal to answer and obvious protection by the management is at very least suggestive of something amiss with facts. What are you trying to hide?

I/O

[Admin]

Dan,

It is not an insulting question and there is NO pack mentality. The question is simple, are we being told the truth or not? Yes or no? A question of credability. Something this board has prided itself on. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as a pack is concerned, that has been well enough answered, so I would now say, show me the evidence? There isn't any because no pack (with my involvement exists)

A blanket refusal to answer and obvious protection by the management is at very least suggestive of something amiss with facts. What are you trying to hide?

I/O

>>What are you trying to hide?<<

Not a Phucking Thing! But that is not enough for you - it seems.

This WILL stop.

There is NOBODY protecting ANYONE, except for the protection of RWD.

I will NOT have the kind of witchhunts and innuendo represented by this type of questioning.

Topic closed.

- Dan