I’m wondering if anyone could shed any light on this article.

[Raskolnikov]

Hi, I’m wondering if anyone knows something about what the article at the link below is talking about.

http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/2111.cfm

I mean, as far as I’m hearing from most people, the bulk of scamming comes from Yoskhar-Ola, the designated “scamming capital”.  And it’s supposed to be only men there that do it.  So this particular article kind of sticks out like a sore thumb amongst all the common wisdom.

It says that in Barnaul in southern Siberia, hundreds of women from various professions are engaged in scamming western men, that they have a practice of meeting weekly to compare the stories they make up in their letters and to give each other instruction.  I haven’t seen any other article on the internet about Barnaul being any kind of scamming capital and that it’s a local cultural phenomenon there specifically involving women the same way scamming in Yoskhar-Ola is a local cultural phenomenon specifically involving men.  The article just seems to contradict everything that’s taken for granted in the discussion about Russian marriage fraud. 

I’m just kind of baffled by it.  Is there anyone here who can offer some insight?

Thanks.

[BC]

I think one of these women put it quite well:

One of the girls, 25-year-old Svetlana says that at one point of her life she realized she could profit from the myths foreigners have about Russia. “They think that Russia is all about criminals and beggars.” Svetlana makes the men feel sorry for the beautiful girl living under such “gloomy” circumstances. The feeling of sorrow is transformed into remittances for Svetlana.

Svetlana is not conscience-stricken about this. On the contrary, she claims she is doing a good thing for foreign men by teaching them to be kind, considerate and human. “We make them feel confident, we say they are the best. In this way, they get rid of their inferiority complex. I should have charged them more for doing this job!”

[Gator]

Raskol,

Welcome to RWD!

Do not allow this article to give you anxiety.

The article is 2 1/2 years old, and probably describes something that happened even earlier.

The source of the article is not high-caliber, so the reliability could be questioned.

Nevertheless, scammers work everywhere, not just in Lugansk and YO.

Just as in BC's quote above, scammers will take a man's money without remorse and think they did him a service or just think he is stupid.

In summary, do not approach this endeavor with scammer paranoia.  I dated a number of women, and even broke some rules.  Yet, I was never scammed.  Common sense and some basic rules will prevent you from being scammed.  Read RWD and ask questions - you will learn how to make this endeavor a very fulfilling journey.

[Serebro]

Raskol,

Welcome to RWD!

Do not allow this article to give you anxiety.

The article is 2 1/2 years old, and probably describes something that happened even earlier.

The source of the article is not high-caliber, so the reliability could be questioned.

Nevertheless, scammers work everywhere, not just in Lugansk and YO.

Just as in BC's quote above, scammers will take a man's money without remorse and think they did him a service or just think he is stupid.

In summary, do not approach this endeavor with scammer paranoia.  I dated a number of women, and even broke some rules.  Yet, I was never scammed.  Common sense and some basic rules will prevent you from being scammed.  Read RWD and ask questions - you will learn how to make this endeavor a very fulfilling journey.

good post, Gator!
why to start the process of finding your love being paranoid about everything.
you can find a bad girl in St Petersburg and a good one YO or Lugansk
I would pay more attention to the girl herself rather than to her location.
Your being suspicious about everything and thinking about scammers may destroy even good relationship, an intelligent woman will always feel that you don't trust her.

[Raskolnikov]

Raskol,

Welcome to RWD!

Do not allow this article to give you anxiety.

The article is 2 1/2 years old, and probably describes something that happened even earlier.

The source of the article is not high-caliber, so the reliability could be questioned.

Nevertheless, scammers work everywhere, not just in Lugansk and YO.

Just as in BC's quote above, scammers will take a man's money without remorse and think they did him a service or just think he is stupid.

In summary, do not approach this endeavor with scammer paranoia.  I dated a number of women, and even broke some rules.  Yet, I was never scammed.  Common sense and some basic rules will prevent you from being scammed.  Read RWD and ask questions - you will learn how to make this endeavor a very fulfilling journey.

Thanks for the concern, Gator.  But I think I might have unintentionally misconstrued the nature of my concerns.  They weren’t actually coming from a scanner-paranoia or a fear of being scammed, it was coming from a desire to understand the nature of it as a cultural phenomenon.

I’m actually reading about Russian culture right now for a novel I’m writing, and I was going to have one of its female protagonists written as kind of “Dostoevskian” character (ie. the hero/sinner).  After encountering the article above, which was one of the first articles I read on marriage fraud, I thought of having her enter the kind of scamming culture described in the above article, which would’ve tied into the protagonist’s own passion for fantasy and illusion, a sense that writing the fake love-letters is akin to writing a powerful, epic Russian novel (her name would be Maya, based on the Indian goddess Maya, weaver of illusion).

So, I have the whole character arc of this character worked out, and then, researching the topic more, I find out that it’s supposed to be virtually entirely male students, and not women, apparently from Yoskhar-Ola that constitute the scamming scene.  So I don’t know what to do now with the character.  Should I change her gender, or create a new male protagonist who gets caught up in the scamming scene?

Or does the article maybe represent a certain period in 2005 when a place like Barnaul could’ve been a more prominent part of the phenomenon? You're right that the article is almost three years old, so it may have been just describing a temporary trend there.

In any case, I was just writing about this article hoping, on the off-chance, to get some clarification on it.    I know the owner of this agency is supposed to be pretty personally knowledgable about the history of marriage fraud in Russia.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain my motivations to reassure that this wasn’t coming from a deep fear of being scammed myself.

[Gator]

Raskolnikov,

Believe me, RW are writing scam letters too.

Is this forum in your league.  What you need is a Russian equivalent of a Bluestockings forum.

I suggest that you write  your second post and place it in Odds and Ends, with a catchy title such as,  "Who's Interested in Russian Literature?" 

You will find here a few men with literary interests, but no men of letters.  There are a couple of wannabes floating around.  You may just attract them.

Some RW have shown a keen interest in Russian literature and they would be perfect for you goal. 

[Ranetka]

I’m actually reading about Russian culture right now for a novel I’m writing, and I was going to have one of its female protagonists written as kind of “Dostoevskian” character (ie. the hero/sinner).  After encountering the article above, which was one of the first articles I read on marriage fraud, I thought of having her enter the kind of scamming culture described in the above article, which would’ve tied into the protagonist’s own passion for fantasy and illusion, a sense that writing the fake love-letters is akin to writing a powerful, epic Russian novel (her name would be Maya, based on the Indian goddess Maya, weaver of illusion).

Why not to write something you actually know about? There is very little of Dostoevsky in a typical scam letter...Just read the examples.

[Raskolnikov]

Why not to write something you actually know about? There is very little of Dostoevsky in a typical scam letter...Just read the examples.

I don't really understand the idea that a writer should write only what they know about. There is such a thing as researching a novel (which, in this case, would obviously involve reading many actual scam-letters).  No writer worth their salt is only going to “write what they know”, or stick only to subjects within their own narrow, immediate experience.

And it’s not that the content of scam letters would resemble Dostoevsky’s writing.  It’s that someone who makes their living writing scam letters could resemble a Dostoevskian protagonist, who would tend to occupy a moral limbo, being immersed in murder, manipulations, or deceit, some of his characters having very little control over themselves to behave otherwise, while being simultaneously remorse-plagued over their actions.  If Dostoevsky lived today, I think the marriage-scam phenomenon would prove to be ripe material for his novels.

[Misha]

characters having very little control over themselves to behave otherwise, while being simultaneously remorse-plagued over their actions

Do you really believe they are remorse-plagued? I have my doubts. The very article you posted states otherwise: "Svetlana is not conscience-stricken about this. On the contrary, she claims she is doing a good thing for foreign men by teaching them to be kind, considerate and human. “We make them feel confident, we say they are the best. In this way, they get rid of their inferiority complex. I should have charged them more for doing this job!"

[Raskolnikov]

Raskolnikov,

Believe me, RW are writing scam letters too.

Is this forum in your league.  What you need is a Russian equivalent of a Bluestockings forum.

I suggest that you write  your second post and place it in Odds and Ends, with a catchy title such as,  "Who's Interested in Russian Literature?" 

You will find here a few men with literary interests, but no men of letters.  There are a couple of wannabes floating around.  You may just attract them.

Some RW have shown a keen interest in Russian literature and they would be perfect for you goal. 

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll check out the odds and end section.  Yeah, it is probably pretty difficult to seriously research this topic.  If I include the marriage fraud culture in my story, I'm thinking I wouldn't include it until a second novel that was a sequel to the first.  I'm thinking that I'd want to visit Russia myself before writing that second novel so as to thoroughly research firsthand the aspects of Russian culture I'd want to document, including the marraige fraud phenomenon.

[Raskolnikov]

Do you really believe they are remorse-plagued? I have my doubts. The very article you posted states otherwise: "Svetlana is not conscience-stricken about this. On the contrary, she claims she is doing a good thing for foreign men by teaching them to be kind, considerate and human. “We make them feel confident, we say they are the best. In this way, they get rid of their inferiority complex. I should have charged them more for doing this job!"

Well, yes, of course, the articles I've read about don't seem to indicate much remorse.  It seems more that the "scammers" live in a kind dreamish, fairy-tale world where they lack any sense of consequence, where they seriously don't perceive the seriousness of what they're doing.

I course, I can't generalize about them all, and for all we know there may be some that are remorse-plagued.  But I guess it seems that in the local cultures and networks in which this scamming takes, scamming almost becomes the conformity of the time among whichever demographic this happens, like certain sections of society feel almost that its not normal NOT to do it.

This is all speculation on my part, of course.  But the question of some individual remorse amongst the social networks in which this becomes the norm would be interesting to look into.

[Misha]

Well, yes, of course, the articles I've read about don't seem to indicate much remorse.  It seems more that the "scammers" live in a kind dreamish, fairy-tale world where they lack any sense of consequence, where they seriously don't perceive the seriousness of what they're doing.

Here is an alternative explanation: they feel no remorse, because they feel that the men they are scamming are fools who deserve what they get. I don't see how the scammers are living in a kind of "dreamish" fairy-tale world. They know the consequences: they scam and get money. The consequences are pretty straightforward.

[Raskolnikov]

Here is an alternative explanation: they feel no remorse, because they feel that the men they are scamming are fools who deserve what they get. I don't see how the scammers are living in a kind of "dreamish" fairy-tale world. They know the consequences: they scam and get money. The consequences are pretty straightforward.

I understand what you mean.  But I’m just wondering why so much of the scamming activity is localized to Yoskhar-Ola or Lugansk .  Does there just happen to be a high percentage of genetically-determined sociopaths randomly conglomerating in those locations, or are there local social/cultural forces or pressures guidng members of those populations toward this activity.  The fact that it’s so localized to specific areas seems to make it more of a social phenomenon, driven by social forces, than something attributable to the uniquely nefarious motives of individuals in isolation.

I have my own personal hypothesis about crime in general, that rather than a criminal being a “rebel” or “outcast”, the compulsion to crime might be driven by an impulse to conformity and a drive to be part of a group, that one get’s one’s identity from being part of a group activity. It’s just my own personal hypothesis, mind you.  But I think a lot of human motivation, rather than being a product purely of one’s own psyche or personality, has its origin in the group itself that has become one’s own social nucleus.

[Christian]

I understand what you mean.  But I’m just wondering why so much of the scamming activity is localized to Yoskhar-Ola or Lugansk .  Does there just happen to be a high percentage of genetically-determined sociopaths randomly conglomerating in those locations, or are there local social/cultural forces or pressures guidng members of those populations toward this activity.  The fact that it’s so localized to specific areas seems to make it more of a social phenomenon, driven by social forces, than something attributable to the uniquely nefarious motives of individuals in isolation.

I have my own personal hypothesis about crime in general, that rather than a criminal being a “rebel” or “outcast”, the compulsion to crime might be driven by an impulse to conformity and a drive to be part of a group, that one get’s one’s identity from being part of a group activity. It’s just my own personal hypothesis, mind you.  But I think a lot of human motivation, rather than being a product purely of one’s own psyche or personality, has its origin in the group itself that has become one’s own social nucleus.

Doubtless, your psychological profile of need is revealed in gang mentality and doubtless there is a sociological factor that we all need to feel wanted and needed; but if what Turboguy stated elswhere is fact that computers can correspond with about 11,000 correspondants simutaneously, then the inordinate amount of criminal scams in these two locals is easily explained.

It is highly improbable that there are women in these locations chomping at the bit for a date with a sitting duck.

Christian

[Shadow]

I have a very different picture from articles like these, or for that issue from most people who think about scams.

The reason that scammers seem to concentrate in one singe area at a time is that that is where at the particular moment the business is run from. Business ? Yes. Scamming is a business in the FSU.
If you trace the scammers IP, usually they lead to the University of Yoshkar Ola, and its surroundings. This is where the business has its office. To organize it, you need three of four guys who copy and paste the letters, one or two more to filter womens pictures from MySpace sites and one or two women to answer phone calls or pick up flowers/money.
Then you need to find someone in a WU station, preferably in Moscow or St Peterburg. by showing the money flow it will not be very hard to find someone that can be bought, now matter how screening is done by WU (if any).

Now you are ready to do the business. The letters can already be found by googling scam sites, enough guys who post the working letters. Next is signing up on whatever site you can with as many profiles as possible (one or two a day not to get found), and start contacting. Another option is just buying the $100 spam database and sending it out by the millions.

Now your business is running, and all you need to to is sit back and count your money, pay your workers well and be ready to disappear when needed.

This is a different picture than that of poverty-stricken women finding some extra cash by 'educating' fools and exchanging information, but trust me it is much closer to the truth.

[Ranetka]

I don't really understand the idea that a writer should write only what they know about. There is such a thing as researching a novel (which, in this case, would obviously involve reading many actual scam-letters).  No writer worth their salt is only going to “write what they know”, or stick only to subjects within their own narrow, immediate experience.

And it’s not that the content of scam letters would resemble Dostoevsky’s writing.  It’s that someone who makes their living writing scam letters could resemble a Dostoevskian protagonist, who would tend to occupy a moral limbo, being immersed in murder, manipulations, or deceit, some of his characters having very little control over themselves to behave otherwise, while being simultaneously remorse-plagued over their actions.  If Dostoevsky lived today, I think the marriage-scam phenomenon would prove to be ripe material for his novels.

As far as I know there were two cases where scammers were actually brought to justice. One was about 5 years ago involving an African student living in SPb and another about 6 years ago involving a Russian girl from one of small towns. Both cases were in British newspapers. I think if you have a good search on BBC website you could actually find a girl.



Another way - to get the money from western union people have to give their correct name. You could find anyone address using their name. You could look in Black lists and actually find real people who scam. Why dont you contact them and ask for an interview?

I appreciate a writer needs research, after research he knows his staff. It is just I think there is no use asking a victim (AM) about how predator (scammer) feels...

[Ranetka]

And it’s not that the content of scam letters would resemble Dostoevsky’s writing.  It’s that someone who makes their living writing scam letters could resemble a Dostoevskian protagonist, who would tend to occupy a moral limbo, being immersed in murder, manipulations, or deceit, some of his characters having very little control over themselves to behave otherwise, while being simultaneously remorse-plagued over their actions. 

I think if That Woman Nastasya Philippovna was to write a scamming letter it would be something very different to usual "My love, from me happens the troubles"

[Shadow]

Another way - to get the money from western union people have to give their correct name. You could find anyone address using their name. You could look in Black lists and actually find real people who scam. Why dont you contact them and ask for an interview?

To get the money from WU people have to supply sufficient information to assure the employee that they are the receiver.
90% of people in black lists do not exist or are placed there under false pretenses.

[Ranetka]

To get the money from WU people have to supply sufficient information to assure the employee that they are the receiver.
90% of people in black lists do not exist or are placed there under false pretenses.

Employee? I had to show my passport when I was receiving money by WU, and my mother has to show her passport every time she gets money from me/ I think rules are fairly strict about it in Russia.

You may receive your money transfer at any Agent location. You will need to complete a "To Receive Money" form with the following information: sender's full name, country from which money transfer was sent, amount expected, correct answer to the test question (if required). You will also need to provide valid identification documents. Documents include: passport, resident permission, military passport (for regular army), temporary document issued to replace lost passport.
- this is a quote from Russian WU website.

[Ranetka]

Employee? I had to show my passport when I was receiving money by WU, and my mother has to show her passport every time she gets money from me/ I think rules are fairly strict about it in Russia.

You may receive your money transfer at any Agent location. You will need to complete a "To Receive Money" form with the following information: sender's full name, country from which money transfer was sent, amount expected, correct answer to the test question (if required). You will also need to provide valid identification documents. Documents include: passport, resident permission, military passport (for regular army), temporary document issued to replace lost passport.
- this is a quote from Russian WU website.

There will be a real person receiving the money and this person will have to show ID. (I once saw someone called Dennis on Black list - westerners would not know it by Dennis is a strictly male name in Russia, so if someone tried to scam my friend this way I would know straight away it was not even a woman.)

[groovlstk]

Employee? I had to show my passport when I was receiving money by WU, and my mother has to show her passport every time she gets money from me/ I think rules are fairly strict about it in Russia.

While this is standard procedure, there are less-than-honest WU clerks in some countries that will arrange to take 10% of a scammer's booty in exchange for allowing them to receive funds w/out proper ID or ability to answer the "test question." This is a big problem in countries like Nigeria and while I'm sure WU acknowledges it and tries to fight it internally, they throw up their hands when someone is ripped off and always publicly side w/their clerks.

[Shadow]

Ranetka, first of all then can be less-than-honest employees. Next thing is that there can be people who show their real passport for a fee, but are not the person who is writing. And finally I do not think that the WU office has good equipment to spot a fake passport.

When thinking like an honest person there seems little way to get the money without showing your identity. For criminals this is a very small issue.

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, first of all then can be less-than-honest employees. Next thing is that there can be people who show their real passport for a fee, but are not the person who is writing. And finally I do not think that the WU office has good equipment to spot a fake passport.

When thinking like an honest person there seems little way to get the money without showing your identity. For criminals this is a very small issue.

I agree with all you are saying here. What I meant was to contact girls who are showing their passport for a fee, as they are an essential part and I honestly beleive that's the most common case. At least that is how it was with an African student. I know people do not have much trust in FCU but people who can get a fake Russian passport would rather use it for say, property fraud and such, you'd be surprised but it is much cheaper to buy American drivers license than "proper" Russian passport. (info from fraudsters website I came across a few years ago).

[Shadow]

While thinking this over a personal experience of a fe years back came to mind. I was in line at the post office (which servers as WU office here) and in front of me were two Nigerians. They had a discussion with the clerk as they showed documents of money they needed to pick up for a 'sick friend'. As they 'forgot' their identity card, the money was not handed out.
However from multiple informations I have noticed that WU will give out the money to anyone with proper identification that has the number and some explanation as to why the receiver did not pick it up themselves.
I doubt that many people actually do a trace on who picked up the money.

[Eduard]

Is it that difficult to tell weather you are communicating with a scammer or a legit woman?
Scammers are usually so obvious! They write exactly in the same writing style, come up with very similar stories and write these very long letters (well, not write - copy and paste actually)
Seems like once you've seen one or two letters you should know!? I don't think that there are any normal women who talk like that neither in FSU or in the West.