Traveling to Ukraine in a few months...

[chernoble]

Ok I've checked things and I just want to ask around to be sure I am not overpaying on the travel costs.  The round trip plane tickets I am scheduling cost $1120 to $1250 on the cheapest airline which happens to be Swiss Intl Air for some reason.  Is this price higher than normal for June or is it average?  I'm traveling from the East Coast.  Also where are good places in Kiev to rent apartments that are convenient?

And what do you guys think of this place?  Is it a good deal with the quality, price and location wise?
http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/apartment_on.php?id=20

Is it pricey at $85 and is it a good location for transportation convenience and near major landmarks, city restaurants, stores, etc?

My biggest needs for a good location include being near the major city downtown area, tourist attractions, amusement park, hospital, and the most important feature is it  must be in a low crime area (I know its the city but I prefer a place with a statistically slightly less chance of muggings, etc  )

Are there particular areas I should avoid whether day or night??

[wxman]

The price for flights in the summer are typically higher than the off season months. The price will vary depending on what days of the week you fly. With the price of fuel, $1100, summer month, etc, the price doesn't seem too bad. As for the flat, I would contact Jack who is on this forum and he can get you a good deal on a flat. I'm always wary of the internet sites that offer flats. A few years ago I contacted one, and asked about a certain flat on their site. The price was posted, but could never get a straight answer if that was still the price, or if they even had the flat available. Bait and switch came to mind.

[Shadow]

The apartment is in a building where I stayed in 2004. That time I paid $60 per night, which means the current price is not too bad counting inflation. The location is near perfect, most things are even in walking distance if you like long walks.

If you are meeting one woman, ask her to call to confirm the reservation. That will scare them enough not to bait and switch you.

[chernoble]

Thanks guys.  I've booked my tickets and am ready for a Kiev party! 

Btw is it true that strangers greet each other in Ukraine by hugging and kissing on the cheek?  How do they do it exactly?  Is it kiss just one cheek or both?  Also are there any  topics that should not be mentioned for casual conversation like World War 2, chernobyl, communism, etc?

[Turboguy]

I have made a lot of trips and have never had to hug or kiss anyone but the ladies I was meeting if that helps.

[wxman]

I have never hugged or kissed complete strangers on the street, excluding New Year's eve    Once I made friends, it is not unusual to get a hug from a man, and hugs and a kiss on each cheek with the women. Never had a problem talking about any subject. Vodka, of course, tends to make discussions more colorful! Just be yourself.

[SANDRO43]

Btw is it true that strangers greet each other in Ukraine by hugging and kissing on the cheek?  How do they do it exactly?  Is it kiss just one cheek or both?

When my granny greeted me, she always made a point to do it "the Russian way", which meant 3 kisses on alternate cheeks (don't remember if the starting cheek was supposed to be left, right, or irrelevant ).

It was reserved to the circle of one's relatives and close friends, and not used with strangers in pre-Soviet times. Afterwards we could see party leaders etc. doing it with those of equal rank (e.g. Kruscev to Castro, IIRC).

Our FSU ladies here could enlighten us on whether it's still current practice.

[chernoble]

Thanks but what I really wanted to know is can I kiss the girl on the cheek and hug her back? 

[wxman]

Thanks but what I really wanted to know is can I kiss the girl on the cheek and hug her back? 

I assume you have been writing them. Some will be open to a hug and a peck on the cheek on the first meeting, others will not. Unfortunately not a clear cut answer. You just have to trust your spidey sense.

[Daveman]

Hey Chern,

The best first greeting, or at least the one which always works wonders for me, is to make eye contact with her, confidently walk up to her with a devious grin, and gently tweak her nose twice and tenderly say in Russian "Хонк Хонк"...

That's an excellent litmus test. If your relations survive that.. you've got it made in the shade bro!   

If you're feeling really frisky, then use the "I got your nose" method where you place your thumb between the index and middle fingers.. and then after you "get her nose" wave it back and forth over your head a few time to show your manly prowess of nose capture!  Then, immediately engage your on board fight or flight systems because it seems they just can't resist this one. Not only her, but everyone in the vicinity will be rushing up to hug you! 

Seriously, you *can* speak about anything really, but it's best to stay the heck away from anything political.  There are too many other topics MUCH more interesting to bother with it (but, if you meet her family and there's drinking involved, which there will be, the political discussions are virtually inevitable... just go with it and be polite without saying anything offensive even when they tell you "Americans want to rule the galaxy".  They have some political views of America which can surprise you and it's simply best to avoid that possible entanglement altogether if possible. Do not criticize anything about her country, her family, anything.

Now what you CAN do, is make jokes about other people you see on the street. When I've done this, I've had the ladies laughing so hard they were almost lying on the sidewalk. It works.  Also, if you are getting close, and meet one of her female friends -- Her friend is UGLY. It's polite here to make a compliment about a friend, but there, it's a hit or miss, mostly miss.  She will invariably ask you what you think about her friend.. this question is equivalent to "do these jeans make me look fat?" So really, the best course of action is to fake series of convulsions and roll around n the ground until she forgets she asked. If that doesn't work, then just shrug it off as if her friend was some kind of medical experiment gone awry. No biggie really, just don't give the impression that her friend is cute, or sweet, or anything.  Not that anything *really* bad would happen, but again best to avoid the negative possibilities by simply shrugging it off and changing the subject.

[chernoble]

Hi Daveman,

I'm looking up the cyrillic for "Хонк Хонк" and the translation Im getting is Kha-O-En-Ka.  What does this mean??  The translator isnt telling me!

Also are you saying if she asks about her friend I should either do a panic attack or change the subject? 

Edit: Wait the translator is saying the sound is "Khonk Khonk".  Is that the correct pronunciation and what is its meaning?!

[Shadow]

Chernoble, Dave is talking about something you might recognize from your childhood. Squeezing the nose and saying 'Honk-Honk' like a car  horn. It might be kind of unexpected for you, just like it would be for the lady.
Regarding discussion, one more thing to avoid is Russian-Ukrainian relations. They are very complicated and you will do yourself a favour not to comment on them.

[Daveman]

Hi Daveman,

I'm looking up the cyrillic for "Хонк Хонк" and the translation Im getting is Kha-O-En-Ka.  What does this mean??  The translator isnt telling me!

Also are you saying if she asks about her friend I should either do a panic attack or change the subject? 

Edit: Wait the translator is saying the sound is "Khonk Khonk".  Is that the correct pronunciation and what is its meaning?!

LoL great comeback... yeah, "Khonk Khonk" works perfectly..    

just FYI, that "get your nose" hand gesture (thumb between the index and middle fingers) is like our "flipping the bird"..  soooooooo, don't really do that one.. 

OKay, since i couldn't resist messing with you a bit, here's something cool you can do while you're waiting to visit.. get a very large card with a sweet message, one that's larger than your hand... place your hand flat on the card and trace it so you have an outline of your hand... then hand write a message that says something simple like

I place my hand on this page and dream I'm holding yours.
Put your hand on mine and touch our hands together.
Thinking of you...

Write it however you'd normally say it of course - in your words. If she's into you.. you will touch her. I guarantee it. FSUW might not seem "romantic" and will tell you how stupid they think many things are (don't believe them for a minute.. it is almost as if they expect you to do exactly different from whatever it is they TELL you) -  she probably won't say much about it until after you meet, but not only will she do it (put her hand on yours) but you'll knock her socks off so hard that her shoes will put holes in the wall (And the holes will be your fault of course). They love this stuff though many of them will pretend they don't.

Dave

[chernoble]

Spasibo Dave!  That sounds cool.

Do the Ukrainians also believe in the western notion that the right hand is good and the left hand is sinister (after the Latin word sinistro-?)

And what kind of gifts do Ukrainian girls prefer for their birthdays and March 8 Women's day?  I noticed there are no holiday cards sold in America to commemorate the Women's Day?

I was also thinking hard about the gifts I bring for her and her friends and family when I go there.  I read the FAQ and some things just seem not to make sense to me like buying Starbucks coffee beans or peanut butter because these must be sold in Kiev already.  There are already Starbucks there I know.  Any more suggestions on good gifts I could bring that they don't sell in Ukraine or would really appreciate?  I don't care about the cost of the gift so much as it must not be cheap! 

[wxman]

You can never go wrong with flowers on birthday or Women's Day. As far as gifts, something personal is good. Perhaps bring her a book written by her favorite author, or music by her favorite artist. It shows that you are paying attention to what she writes you. Re-read her letters. You will find many clues. If you bring gifts for the family and friends, make sure they are made in the US. It's where you are from and it's better than of seeing something that says "made in China" 

[SANDRO43]

Do the Ukrainians also believe in the western notion that the right hand is good and the left hand is sinister (after the Latin word sinistro-?)

You got it right at your first try :

sinister (m.), sinistra (f.), sinistrum (n.)

[2tallbill]

Spasibo Dave!  That sounds cool.

Do the Ukrainians also believe in the western notion that the right hand is good and the left hand is sinister (after the Latin word sinistro-?)

And what kind of gifts do Ukrainian girls prefer for their birthdays and March 8 Women's day?  I noticed there are no holiday cards sold in America to commemorate the Women's Day?

I was also thinking hard about the gifts I bring for her and her friends and family when I go there.  I read the FAQ and some things just seem not to make sense to me like buying Starbucks coffee beans or peanut butter because these must be sold in Kiev already.  There are already Starbucks there I know.  Any more suggestions on good gifts I could bring that they don't sell in Ukraine or would really appreciate?  I don't care about the cost of the gift so much as it must not be cheap! 

Regarding flowers don't buy yellow flowers (not for romance) and buy them in odd numbers (even numbers are for funerals) 99.99% of RW like chocolates.

I don't know where you live but nearly everywhere has a number of coffee table picture books an RW will find it very interesting to see the area around where you live. You can find a bunch of them at an Barnes and Nobel or at Amazon.

Bring a couple of pairs of good, stylish but most importantly comfortable shoes. You will walk several miles every day. Break them in and put a really good polish job on them.
(not Nike or tennis shoes).

The $85 price sounds very reasonable for a "One Room" apartment in Kiev. One room is a studio and doesn't have a separate bedroom. "Two Rooms" has a separate bedroom and of  course a higher price. You want something near Kreschatik Street and the City Center.
The towels in FSU apartments are paper thin and if you can fit it in your luggage you might appreciate having a fluffy one.

Udachi (Good luck)

Bill