RW in your country

[smartcat]

I decided to start a topic after talk to my old friend who used to live in USA for a while. Then she turned back to Ukraine.

Have you ever consider to find a RW who already resides in your country? Does it sound worser in some aspects either better?
 

[groovlstk]

I decided to start a topic after talk to my old friend who used to live in USA for a while. Then she turned back to Ukraine.

Have you ever consider to find a RW who already resides in your country? Does it sound worser in some aspects either better?

Before I met my Muscovite wife I dated a good number of Russian women living in the US. Indeed, shortly before my first trip to meet her I told some RWD friends that it was my last trip; if things didn't work out I was going to concentrate on RW living in the US.

Anyway, the Russian dating scene in the US is NOT an easy network to tap into, for a variety of reasons.

My only negative impression was that most of the women I met in the US had arrived on K1s years earlier and then divorced their American husbands. They had various reasons for their breakups, but the common element to all was that they essentially married strangers. Most guys here would probably blame these failures on the husband - he wasn't rich enough, didn't pay enough attention to her, the usual hogwash, etc. - but the reality is that both parties are to blame.

That said, I often see local RW disparaged on these boards, usually because they are
"too Americanized" or spoiled. I always take "spoiled" to mean that they're not desperate enough to throw themselves at the feet of the first unkempt, aging, and spoiled Western suitor. Most guys who venture to Ukraine or Russia and use marriage agencies will be treated like celebrities, which is intoxicating, addictive, and ultimately dangerous.

IMHO this network is a hidden jewel and I'm sometimes amused to see guys making plans to spend thousands of $$ and travel thousands of miles because they can't see similar prospects lying in their own backyards

[Serebro]

smartcat, many guys who go to the FSU are of very low quality.Going to the FSU they can date many young beautiful girls and  even a poor american looser can feel himself a king.
RW living abroad can compare and they can choose.And they can easily distinguish a good guy from a bad guy. His being a foreigner doesn't impress them as there are many foreigners around to choose from.
In other words most of the men  have to face the same problem as in case with AW: these RW living in the USA don't want them.

[groovlstk]

smartcat, many guys who go to the FSU are of very low quality.Going to the FSU they can date many young beautiful girls and  even a poor american looser can feel himself a king.
RW living abroad can compare and they can choose.And they can easily distinguish a good guy from a bad guy. His being a foreigner doesn't impress them as there are many foreigners around to choose from.
In other words most of the men  have to face the same problem as in case with AW: these RW living in the USA don't want them.

Serebro, once again you hit the nail perfectly on the head

[KenC]

groovlstk,
I don't know how much of a "hidden jewel" these women are!  Lena has acquired a few "acquaintances" that came over on K-1's and divorced.  They certainly are no prizes IMO.  If anything they over estimate their allure to men and have some very questionable character.  Snakes in a basket comes to mind. :hairraising:
KenC

[KenC]

smartcat, many guys who go to the FSU are of very low quality.Going to the FSU they can date many young beautiful girls and  even a poor american looser can feel himself a king.
RW living abroad can compare and they can choose.And they can easily distinguish a good guy from a bad guy. His being a foreigner doesn't impress them as there are many foreigners around to choose from.
In other words most of the men  have to face the same problem as in case with AW: these RW living in the USA don't want them.

Serebro,
Even though I agree with everything you posted, you must also take into consideration that the quality of the RW here is questionable too.  Many used their first husbands as a mule to get to America and are not the cream of the crop either.
KenC

[Serebro]

Serebro,
Even though I agree with everything you posted, you must also take into consideration that the quality of the RW here is questionable too.  Many used their first husbands as a mule to get to America and are not the cream of the crop either.
KenC

I agree!!! Many of them are really bad and from my experience of visiting forums and meeting some of them in real life the quality of RW looking for the man abroad is lower, too.I don't mean the "cover".

At the same time many men put themselves as superheroes here, when they are in FSU and promise many good things and even lie, some women coming to the USA have to face the truth and many of them are shocked.

[groovlstk]

groovlstk,
I don't know how much of a "hidden jewel" these women are!  Lena has acquired a few "acquaintances" that came over on K-1's and divorced.  They certainly are no prizes IMO.  If anything they over estimate their allure to men and have some very questionable character.  Snakes in a basket comes to mind. :hairraising:
KenC

Ken,

My wife and I have also met some pretty depraved FSU women (and men) in our area but they seem to have arrived here by a variety of methods. The bottom line for me was that it seemed much easier to weed out women who had ulterior motives when on (relatively) equal footing, and in my own territory.

[smartcat]

My only negative impression was that most of the women I met in the US had arrived on K1s years earlier and then divorced their American husbands. They had various reasons for their breakups, but the common element to all was that they essentially married strangers. Most guys here would probably blame these failures on the husband - he wasn't rich enough, didn't pay enough attention to her, the usual hogwash, etc. - but the reality is that both parties are to blame.

Groovlstk, do divorced American Women usually say that their ex was a briiliant person with no lack of nature? Do ALL tend to commit that both parties are to blame?

I visited some female forums, where divorces or ex-husbands were mentioned by AW. Strange, but it's absolutely the same like in Russia or Ukraine!!!

Divorced AW (to an AM) say almost the same reasons as RW (divorced to RM). Talking to divorced American men, or Russian men - I also hear the same story. About what wrong their ex did. Neither they did.

Not so many are brave enough to say that both did not work well over the marriage.

[groovlstk]

Groovlstk, do divorced American Women usually say that their ex was a briiliant person with no lack of nature? Do ALL tend to commit that both parties are to blame?

Smartcat, I'm not basing my opinion on the reasons the women gave me for their divorces. Usually it was either the husband was too controlling and jealous or he lied about his living conditions/lifestyle and the woman found herself pining for her old life back in Russia. In many cases, the women may have been telling me 100% truth.

My reasons for saying both parties are to blame is because in every instance, these couples were essentially strangers. The men married because they became infatuated with beautiful girls who were lightyears out of their league; the women married because they had no other good options or wanted to improve their living conditions. Both parties will point fingers and lay blame on any number of reasons, but even before they exchanged vows their chances of staying together were slim to none because there was no genuine love between them.

In all cases, both man and woman are guilty of not putting in the time to get to know each other before they made a most serious commitment. Sure, there may be instances when a man lied explicitly about his job/home/debts, and of course there are many reasons why people who truly love each other eventually divorce, but the common theme among RW I dated in the US is that they spent a week or less w/their husband before committing to marriage.

[KenC]

I get the idea that many of these gals have a "wait and see" attitude.  Meaning that they may hope things work out, but oh well so sad, if they don't.  The guys seem to be head over heels in lust and (to be kind) really are just grateful for the time they had with the RW.  The guys all seemed pathetic and to a one, the women grossly over estimated their worth IMO.  But they all stayed with their mule until he outlived his financial usefulness.
KenC

[Gator]

Serebro,

In other words most of the men  have to face the same problem as in case with AW: these RW living in the USA don't want them.

Serebro,

At the same time many men put themselves as superheroes here, when they are in FSU and promise many good things and even lie, some women coming to the USA have to face the truth and many of them are shocked.

Groovlstk,

...the common theme among RW I dated in the US is that they spent a week or less w/their husband before committing to marriage.

Let me add this up.

First, the man is having problems with dating AW.

Second, he knowingly misleads the RW.

Third, he and his RW spend a week or less together to sort this out and to know everything about each other, confounded by culture and language if not age barriers.


I am sure such a man would gravitate more towards wholesome, sweet professional RW rather than the dolled up, desperate trash (insert "sarcastic, tongue in cheek" emoticon here).

Says it all......reasons for divorce and explanation of KenC's characterization of some divorced RW in America.

[groovlstk]

Groovlstk,
Let me add this up.

First, the man is having problems with dating AW.

Second, he knowingly misleads the RW.

Third, he and his RW spend a week or less together to sort this out and to know everything about each other, confounded by culture and language if not age barriers.

Actually Gator, I didn't mean to suggest the item in red above happens often. Some of the RW I dated in the US claimed this, but they also claimed a litany of other outlandish stuff that I suspect was made simply to cast themselves in the best light.

I hate to keep assuming a role as the men's rights advocate in all this, especially since there are so many odious men involved in this pursuit, but I believe 100% that any woman who agrees to marry a guy she knows for a week or less and/or can't communicate w/him w/out an intepreter is either desperate or exceedingly foolish. If things blow up on her when she arrives in her husband's country, she's as much to blame for the result as he is.

[Jumper]

smart cat-

The amount of FSU women in the western cities varies greatly by location ,while some cities like NYC ,Toronto, and Chicago would have many, in the millions,
other places might have almost none.
 Living near Chicago, i have dated  local eastern european women,
not because of thier nationalities, just because there are a lot of women from those countries here,and it would naturally occur.
I will say that my positive experiences dating them locally , ultimately led to my interest in dating women from that culture abroad...with marriage in mind.

 

[Gator]

Groovlstk,

If things blow up on her when she arrives in her husband's country, she's as much to blame for the result as he is.

No-fault divorce laws certainly support your premise.  Nevertheless, my long, long history in business and social circles says that too many American men are inclined to embellishment and unabashed optimism rather than to reality, especially when they are trying to convince someone else of something.

By the way, time for trivia.  Do you know that the concept of no-fault divorce originated in Russia?

[smartcat]

  It occurs that people in this topic more discuss moral qualities of single RW... eh, divorced RW in USA and reasons of their divorce, that can be a scaring factor, right? As far as I see, that until now there are only gentlemen from USA who spoke out.

At other hand - divorced women, who stayed in USA have developed in certain degrees.

If she was not able to speak - she speaks now. She probably works (right, groovlstk?). She knows the system, traditions, taxes. She does not wear pink glasses anymore to beleive in America of skyscrappers everywhere and yachts with servants (if she was so much naive to believe... too much Hollywood on our TV screens). She can float and estimate money issues, debts and all what was so much hot discussed in topic about money changing everything.

If she goes out with you - does it increase your chances that this moment she realizes who you are, what you are and likes you not for your wallet... at least she is ready to relationship much more and not influenced by marriage agency in her country? Is that a benefit?

Either at your point of view she turns to sort of suspicious woman just because of her divorce?

However my initial question was about ALL RW, not only divorced. There are some students. Some, whose parents took to US while they were 18-19. Some won GC. Etc, etc... Are they not object to look what you are looking for?

[wxman]

smartcat, many guys who go to the FSU are of very low quality.Going to the FSU they can date many young beautiful girls and  even a poor american looser can feel himself a king.
RW living abroad can compare and they can choose.And they can easily distinguish a good guy from a bad guy. His being a foreigner doesn't impress them as there are many foreigners around to choose from.
In other words most of the men  have to face the same problem as in case with AW: these RW living in the USA don't want them.

I agree. I also think that a respectable, high quality RW/UW also would not date this type of AM in their native country either.
Makes me wonder what type are the majority of the RW/UW that come over to the US on a K1 visa? If many of the AM are of low quality that travel to the FSU to meet women, then most the women they bring back to the states are of equally low quality, if that is who the women chose as a mate.  One who settles for low quality, are themselves usually of low quality.   

[I/O]

Russian people, not only women whom I have met in my country are IMO of mixed quality. Some are people whom I wouldn't want to associate with and some are highly respectable people. On the whole, I have the impression that Russian people have assimilated well and formed useful and productive members of local society although there is an element who should never have been allowed in. That could be said for many nationalities, there is always an undesirable element.

No, I never sought a Russian Woman within my own country because I was never looking for a "Russian Woman" specifically.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

but I believe 100% that any woman who agrees to marry a guy she knows for a week or less and/or can't communicate w/him w/out an intepreter is either desperate or exceedingly foolish.

While foolish may also cover this I do believe that some of these (probably a very small percentage) are simply romantically hopeful and come in under the "White Knight/Damsel in Distress" situation/syndrome. While not a high percentage start to the relationship I do think that some of these end up working out fairly well.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Serebro]

I agree. I also think that a respectable, high quality RW/UW also would not date this type of AM in their native country either.
Makes me wonder what type are the majority of the RW/UW that come over to the US on a K1 visa? If many of the AM are of low quality that travel to the FSU to meet women, then most the women they bring back to the states are of equally low quality, if that is who the women chose as a mate.  One who settles for low quality, are themselves usually of low quality.   

well...
Western men coming to Russia were "trained " by American women, they are "well-behaved", they don't jump on women trying to have sex on the first date, they don't smoke and don't spit on the ground,they take a shower and change clothes every day, they have more money in comparison with RM... at the same time an average divorced RW who have children and low chances to marry someone from Russia(especially if she is from a small town)considers this man to be much better than her previous RM was. If she has never been abroad and doesn't know real life there she takes his words as truth and the fact itself that he is ready to start relationship knowing that she has a child is a big advantage to her.

But after her arrival to the USA she starts to see not only advantages but disadvantages, too.The things that she considered to be big advantages are not something special anymore, they are just ordinary things in the society where she lives  now.
At the same time she realizes that his and her "position" in this society is lower than it was in Russia, in a small Russian town she belonged to the "middle class" and all her friends and relatives were like her and she didn't feel like she was worse... but now she realizes that she is much "lower", it's not only her status(as she doesn't have a good job yet) but also the status of the husband she has.

If the woman is smart and educated she will understand certain things at the very beginning, if she doesn't have enough information she will be extremely dissapointed.

When I read threads on Russian forums created by RW who moved abroad on K visa I often see the sentence like:"in Russia it looked great, but when I came here and had a look at  the bills and saw prices I realised that we were very poor"..."In his letter he wrote that he likes to travel, to read books, to go to museums, he wore business suits, but now he wears jeans and a T-shirt and watches TV drinking beer all the time"

the women who didn't look for big money but love will probably find their happiness but it doesn't mean that all women who came on K visa and got divorced looked for big money.

It can mean a lot of things and there could be a lot of reasons. They could marry a complete loser and a liar who started abusing them after they came here but had told lie about his the real state of things bringing fake photos of his house or cars, about having a good job when he had come to Russia.

People can pretend what they are not and it doesn't mean that you can easily distinguish a good guy from a bad guy knowing him less one year after the couple of his 1 week visits, sometimes people get married after 2-3 years of dating every day and they love each other but they get divorced after a couple of years.

This process can  be more complicated in case with different cultures.. when you don't know if there's something wrong with him or this is just something in his culture..

that's why when many guys start giving advices like"wear this, don't wear this, do this, don't do that" I advise just to be yourself...sooner or later she will understand this anyway.

[acrzybear]

So far folks have mentioned the following;

1) A lady comes to the U.S and gets the bbd.
2) She divorces and becomes "Americanized"


  Why hasn't anyone mention the women that uprooted their lives, placed their trust in someone they loved only to get to the "promise land" and get beaten, raped, treated like a slave (cook, clean etc...)

  If she can survive that kind of treatment, leave the guy, learn English and make a better life for herself-that's a surviver and I rather have someone like that in my corner or staying in the U.S then some of the folks born here.  A woman like that will not take any type of public assistance any longer then she has to and will become a productive member of society and help support all of those women that can't keep their legs closed and pump out babies that they can't afford every couple of years.

  Keep working, millions on welfare depend on it.

[KenC]

So far folks have mentioned the following;

1) A lady comes to the U.S and gets the bbd.
2) She divorces and becomes "Americanized"


  Why hasn't anyone mention the women that uprooted their lives, placed their trust in someone they loved only to get to the "promise land" and get beaten, raped, treated like a slave (cook, clean etc...)
  If she can survive that kind of treatment, leave the guy, learn English and make a better life for herself-that's a surviver and I rather have someone like that in my corner or staying in the U.S then some of the folks born here.  A woman like that will not take any type of public assistance any longer then she has to and will become a productive member of society and help support all of those women that can't keep their legs closed and pump out babies that they can't afford every couple of years.

  Keep working, millions on welfare depend on it.

Bear,
Although I am sure your scenario happens, it may be a very small part of the problem.  I literally know of 7 or 8 break ups of AM/RW marriages, in maybe one there was some inkling of the problems you mention.  In most cases I have seen it is more like what Serebro mentions above.
KenC

[KenC]

Serebro,
Great post!  You bring up so many facts that are right on the mark and rarely spoken of here.  I especially like the "trained by AW", which is so true.  I will say that there are some AM that do not over sell themselves though.  Not every woman is disappointed by her husbands financial position in America.

It may be a shock to AM but if their woman is anything like my wife, the financial pluses of being in America will be offset by some of out many cultural negatives.  And you are right, Serebro, the RW coming over rarely see the negatives, only the positives.
KenC

[2tallbill]

Interesting this topic came up.

After traveling to St Petersburg (trippen in St Pete http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0)
and the whole anti**** thing. I decided to look locally for RW to date.

I met a sweet lady after dating a few other RW and had been dating this lady for 4 months. She lives a distance away and I went to
visit her nearly every week. Recently I (or we) decided it wasn't going to work (I am not giving details read above T/R if you are wondering why)
and I am starting over again. I am doing several things differently this time, actually almost too many to list or I would need to start another
thread.

I really didn't notice a big difference between the ladies I met here as opposed to in country, except maybe my jokes were understood a little better. (don't worry I don't use the material that I post in "time for some humor" with RW or AW) Two ladies I dated believe it or not were still really hung up
on their ex's and although they said they were over it, they actually were not and they had been divorced for a few years for one and nearly 5 with the other. With those two I just knew it wouldn't work (with me or anyone else) until they were really ready to move on.

I don't want to sidetrack the thread any further, so in summary I didn't see any RW that would fall under the GCG type. The RW I dated here in California were not much different than in the FSU. None of them were what I would consider spoiled. I did try to contact a few that were not interested, but as AMAZING as it may seem I have experienced that in the FSU as well.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[Misha]

At the same time she realizes that his and her "position" in this society is lower than it was in Russia, in a small Russian town she belonged to the "middle class" and all her friends and relatives were like her and she didn't feel like she was worse... but now she realizes that she is much "lower", it's not only her status(as she doesn't have a good job yet) but also the status of the husband she has.

Serebro highlights and interesting aspect about Russians and specifically RW: the quest for status. She rightly points out that the point of comparison for RW in their new homes abroad will not be their previous lives, but rather their ranking in their new countries. How will she rank her status? She will compare herself with other RW that she meets first and foremost and then with other women in general. When you listen in to the conversations of RW, quite often you see a very subtle jockeying for status. Each will try to prove that they are the most attractive or their husbands are either the best educated or the richest, and of course that their children are the smartest and the best. Very often, life in Russia becomes a source of nostalgia and the life remembered becomes much more positive than the life lived. Under these circumstances, a woman who always loses out in the competition for status will likely become very frustrated that her husband does not measure up. How she lived in the past does not matter, it is how she ranks in the present that will count.

What can a man do? Well, a lot is a question of finding the right woman. If a woman is obsessed with status in Russia, she will not change in her new country. The signs should be there. If she is excessively concerned about the impression that you will make on her friends (i.e. will they "envy" her for her catch or will she be a bit embarrassed that they see her with you), then she will likely put a great deal of emphasis on status when she arrives in her new country. Likewise, if a woman puts a great deal of emphasis on her class in Russia (trying to prove that she really is middle class or even in the upper classes), she will also be concerned with these issues in her new country.

It all comes down to knowing the woman you are marrying and vice versa for the woman to know the man that she is marrying.