Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[Sonar]

Sonar,

We can only respond to the information you provide.  You are now presenting a completely different story than before.

KenC

Ken, I'm not trying to be a smarta## or anything but I have a question for you. Why are your posts in bold augmented font? It is the keyboard equivalent of shouting. Or maybe an expression of authority. Are you a lawyer by some chance?

[Turboguy]

Heck no, If I were a browns here, I could spend all my time on RWD because no one would talk to me and I wouldn't have anything else to do.

[Sonar]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Sonar,
Welcome to the rugby match!

I don't think you have changed your story. I do think you have added additional information.

I do think there are valid reasons for cancelling an engagement prior to marriage. I think most would agree with me. If she turned out to be the opposite of the person you had known for the prior three years, or some fatal flaw came to light, like she had a penchant for throwing kitchen knives after breakfast or something.
If the relationship falls apart, both parties must share the responsibility. True, I generally feel that the western man is probably a little more responsible, but it's debatable.

Maybe your reasons for sending her home were valid. Here at RWD, we only see the tip of your iceberg. On the other hand, your story encourages us to ask questions.

You knew her for three years before she came over. You were in love with her. Then you saw a strange dark side of her, when she gave you the sullen silent treatment during those first 7 days.  You now say there were other factors for rejecting her. Okay, I'll take your word for it.

It's my understanding that Turbo endured a lot of crap with his fiancee when she was over here with him. I give him a lot of credit for spending 89 days with her, before sending her back. So that's the part of your story that bothers me- the 7 days with your fiancee. I remember the jet lag I had in Kiev. A major negative factor.

How did you handle her silent treatment? Did you sit her down and tell her you think the world of her? Did you apologize and ask her to forgive you? (for the alleged transgression) Before she arrived, did you tell her what your work schedule would be? Any mature woman would realize that a husband must go to work, in most cases. If a woman will not discuss what is bothering her, you have to force the issue.

:offtopic:How do guys here at RWD deal with the silent treatment?   -doug  

Doug,

Thanks for stepping in here with some objective opinions. I was really starting to become PO'ed with some of the comments being made here. Especially so with the guy that seems to think that the word 'kidnapping' has a place in this discussion.

Being the new 'kid on the block here' I really had to resist loading up both barrels for this guy. I'm glad that Bruno straightened it out for me. Thanks Bruno !!!

I understand what you say. But there is really not very much of this iceburg hidden beneath the water. My original post in this thread was based on the fact that some here seem to have had a problem at the embassy in Moscow. I have always felt that the CO was out of line by telling my girl that 'Life is very difficult for a Russian girl in the USA'. Along with some other things.

Just that one statement "life is very difficult for a Russian girl in the USA" was contrary to everything that I had spent three years trying to explain to her. My opinion is that it is easy for a Russian girl such as mine to become intimidated by 'The American authority in uniform wearing a badge' telling her that she could be making a big mistake.

Did I ever say that this was the reason for our failure? No I did not. All that I said is that I could see a major difference in her after the interview. But some here have taken this to mean that I am probably some kind of an ax murderer that probably escaped from prison and went to Russia with the intentions of kidnapping some poor Russian girl and ruining her life in the process. All of that makes for good drama, but in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

Every multi-cultural realationship is different with it's own set of circumstances that are unique to that relationship alone. Some seem to think that maybe Russian women are produced on some conveyor belt and that they all share common characrer traits. Thus the 'poor Russian girl' mentality that has been thrown at me so liberally here. I'm sure that it applies in many other cases, but it definately does not in mine. My girl always made an effort to distinguish herself from the "common Russian" as she very often phrased it. A good American term for it which I think that everyone should understand is 'stuck up'.

She would probably be very offended by some of these comments that refer to her as the 'poor Russian girl' that was treated so badly by this 'irresponsible, selfish, unknowlegable and uncaring American man.' She would not agree with ANY of that crap regarding her or me.

Ok to get to the 7 days thing which seems to also be a sacrilege on my part, I'll say this. There is absolutely No Way that I can determine if a Russian girl will be suitable for me as a wife without first bringing her here into my invironment and lifestyle and making that desision HERE. No matter how many times I visit her in her own invironment in Russia. Unfortunately, since the US government is so bone-headed about tourists visas for Russian women, that leaves us guys with the K1 as our only option. Marriage was my intent as well as hers when we applied for the K1. We did not use it as a substitute for a tourist visa. But we both also understood that we were not bound to marriage and that either of us could change our mind if we so decided. Mr KenC seems to think that I had no such right. I totally disagree. And as far as I know, there is no timetable for making this decision. INS never came knocking on my door to investigate why we were not married or why I did not wait for 89 days to pass before sending her home. They don't care about any of that. Their only requirment is that IF a marriage takes place, that it should happen within a 90 day period or she will have to leave.

During her stay here, she was basically like a fish out of water. There were new issues almost every minute of every day. I'll give you an example. This girl had never used an electric washer and dryer. Very understandable. All of her laundry day chores were done by hand as with so many Russian women. She needed to wash some clothes on her third day here before we went out that evening. So of course, I conducted a class on the proper use of an American washer and dryer. At first she had some trouble with the washer because she did not understand that it is 100% automatic and all that you need to do is put your cloths in, turn some knobs and remove the clothes later. She thought that you had to manually guide the machine through the different cycles. I thought this to be a little bit amusing but in no way did feel that it was anything other than a learning process for her. Kind of like when you are teaching your kid to ride a bike. A little amusing sometimes but you would never ridicule the kid for not knowing how to automatically ride a bike.

Ok, the washing machine issue was resolved and I thought that everything else was pretty much self expanitory with the dryer. I had shown her everything that there is to know about how to use a dryer, short of putting the clothes in. That was my big mistake.

I went to the bedroom to take a nap and about an hour later she awoke me. Very sweetly I might add. I asked her if she was finished washing her clothes yet and she informed me that she cannot get the dryer to work. Thinking that she was having a problem with the controls I went with her to the laundry room and began to show her again (very patiently) how to use the dryer. She says to me "No,No that is not the problem". So I ask her, "Then what is the problem?" She decided to show me.

She picks up the laundry basket with her clothes in it and attempts to place the basket inside the dryer. Of course it won't fit. I start laughing a little bit as I am showing her that the clothes need to come out of the basket first. In no way am I trying to ridicule her in anyway. It was nothing more to me than a somewhat humorous situation so without thinking, I naturally laughed a little bit. BIG MISTAKE!

She became extreemly pi$$ed thinking that I was laughing at her rather than the situation. She went into the bedroom, slammed the door and refused to come out. All of this took me by surprise and I went into the bedroom to try to find out what the problem was. All that I got was the silent treatment so I decided to let her be for awhile. Finally after about 2 hours she says to me "You think that I am a very stupid woman". Then the silent treatment again. No matter how much I tried to explain to her that I was not laughing at her, it did no good. I also apologized several times.

So as I sat in another room, thinking about this and shaking my head, I also started wondering what will happen if and when a real issue arrives.

 

 

[Sonar]

Heck no, If I were a browns here, I could spend all my time on RWD because no one would talk to me and I wouldn't have anything else to do.

HaHa, Thats funny. I wouldn't want to be a Browns fan living in Beaver Falls. That would be a very difficult life no doubt.

[KenC]

Sonar,

You wrote in reference to not getting married while your gurl is here on a K-1:

But we both also understood that we were not bound to marriage and that either of us could change our mind if we so decided. Mr KenC seems to think that I had no such right.

[/size]Of course no one can force you to marry, that was never my point.  My point is that a K-1 is not intended as any type of trial living arraingment during which you make the decision to marry.  If your girl had approached the embassy with an attitude of "We'll see how it goes and if it goes well, then we will marry" she would be turned down flat.  The K-1 is issued with the conditions that the decision to marry has already been made.

Personally, I think you screwed the pooch on this one.  Your stories about her transition to America are not any different than most.  In many ways, coming to America can be a very humbling experience for a RW.  Think of it this way:  She was a confident, independent and secure adult in Russia.  But now her world is turned upside down.  She is overwhelmed with things she just has no experience with.  The washer & dryer is a good example.  She felt helpless and stupid.  All her experience could not have prepared her for such a simple task here.  By laughing (even a little bit) was totally humiliating to her.  You were her only lifeline here and you mocked her (in her mind).

I understand that you had to work, but you could have handled the 4 hours a little better than having her sit in the car.  It was your responsibility to keep her occupied.  I once had my adult daughter take my wife on a "field trip" to the local drug store for example.  Just to make her aware of all the feminie hygene products available here.  If the AM has a 9 to 5 job, he has to have a plan of action as to how to keep his fiancee occupied during his absence.  (You listening, Photo?) You can't just put out a bowl of water & food like you would for a dog. Or leave them in a car for 4 hours.

To give your girl only 7 days to acclimate is ridiculous.  Especially after you had invested 3 years in the relationship.  The 90 days allowable under a K-1 is even too short of a time in my opinion, but that is all that is allowed.  In any marriage, the first year is tough, but in a RW/AM marriage it is brutal.  I think you may not have thought about just how tough her transition was going to be and panicked after a very very short time.

Now that you have added the new information regarding the mystery phone calls and the deceit involved, there was some room for your doubts.  You say that you are still in touch with this woman.  Have you ever gotten an explanation?

KenC

[Turboguy]

Well a few comments.   I have had apartments in Russia and Ukraine that had washing machines in and never used them because I didn't want to take a chance on destroying them.   Luda was not comfortable with a washer and drier either.   We went to WalMart a few days after she arrived and bought a big plastic tub and she washed her clothes by hand until the very end.  She was happy.  I was happy.

I think it is easy to laugh at someone when you see them doing something like that but definately the wrong thing to do.   They can be very proud and self consious and I think you need to be very careful of their feelings.   There are a lot of ways things are done there that I am not comfortable with.  I see a pay phone in some countries, and am not sure how to use it.  I see a bus, and don't know where it will take me or who to pass along the money or how much.   There was a time on my first trip to Russia in 1996.  I was in Perm.  I boarded a bus, bought a ticket and sat down.  A minute or two later there is this 4 foot tall 4 foot wide 80 year old lady yelling at me non stop in Russian.  I tell her I don't speak Russian and she goes on and on.  Finally someone on the bus tells me in English she is the ticket police.  I bought my ticket but I forgot, or didn't know that I had to punch it in the machine on the side of the bus.  What the little old lady was telling me was that there was a 25 cent fine I had to pay and if I did not she would have the police haul me off to jail.   Not a good thing to be unable to understand.   I am sure some people have laughed at me a lot in my travels but they have done it politely or when I was not there.

I guess if I were in love with someone and had invested 3 years, I probably would have tried to give them more than 7 days.   Oh, maybe at least 10 days. :cool:

It does sound like it was just not meant to be.

 

[Turboguy]

Luda did not have a working cell phone when she was here.  I almost think the smartest thing we could do if we could get away with it is to not have the internet.   It seems like the internet creates a lot of problems with FSU women and AW.   Just with FSU women they often sit home alone all day and they have more chance to get into trouble.   I have a feeling no internet and no cell phone woud cut the failures to half of what they are.

[Sonar]

But we both also understood that we were not bound to marriage and that either of us could change our mind if we so decided. Mr KenC seems to think that I had no such right.

[/size]  I think you may not have thought about just how tough her transition was going to be and panicked after a very very short time.

Now that you have added the new information regarding the mystery phone calls and the deceit involved, there was some room for your doubts.  You say that you are still in touch with this woman.  Have you ever gotten an explanation?

KenC
[/quote]
Ken,

Of course I questioned her about the mystery phone calls. Her explanation was that all of the calls were from her mother, with the exception being the one that I caught her in the obvious lie. Her explanation for that one is: in her own words "It was my mistake". As far as who it was that called her, I've never been able to get that out of her. Her answer did nothing for me but raise more questions than it answered. Oh yeah, I was also able to get a couple of "Oh, maybe you do not trust me"? answers out of her.

As far as the 4 hours in the truck ? I never expected a 4 hour meeting that day and felt that it would be an hour max. If I would have known, then I would have made other arrangements for her.

You seem to discount the fact that when a guy travels to the FSU that he is also at the mercy of an entirely different culture. Normally he knows absolutely nobody other than the girl, he suffers jet lag and culture shock and most of the time does not know the language. Almost the same scenario as the Russian woman experiences here but maybe not quite as challenging for the man.

As I said in an earlier post, during the three years, I traveled to Russia about every three months. A total of 15 or 16 times. There were many times that I had to deal with a situation that would equally equate to the 4 hour truck event that she had to deal with. A couple of times I got a little ticked but I kept it to myself and chaulked it up to: 'Oh well, thats life'.

Example: Easter of '02 I traveled to Russia to spend the holiday with her and her family. My normal routine was to meet her in Moscow and we would spend about 4 or 5 days there, then travel to her town and spend a few days there and then travel back to Moscow for a few more days. For now, I'll just say that her town is located 220km outside of Moscow and we would drive to and from there in a rental car.

Her town does not have the greatest hotel facilities around but there in one hotel where a westerner can almost feel comfortable. I never stayed at her apartment since she lived with her parents in the typical Soviet era 2 room flat. Although I was very good friends with her parents and knew them well, it was just not thought of as normal for me to stay there. I agreed 100%.

Anyway, I would always send her the money and she would book my room at this hotel for the time that we would be in town. She would stay there with me. I arrived in Moscow a few days before Easter and found out that she had forgotten to book the hotel room (in her town). She told me not to worry about it and that we could take care of it when we arrived. Ok, so I didn't worry about it.

The day that we left Moscow for her town, her mother was not feeling well. She suffers from high blood pressure and sometimes has big problems because of it. During the drive to her town we had decided that she should stay at her flat with her mother rather than stay with me at the hotel as normal. When we arrived and went to the hotel, there were no rooms available. Rember, she had forgotten to book the room in advance. So we went to the couple of other hotels in town and found no rooms available there neither. It is now almost dark and I am thinking about making the 4 hour drive back to Moscow. So I call the Moscow Mariott Grand Hotel where I normally stay>>No rooms available. I call several other hotels in Moscow.>>No rooms available. All hotel rooms are booked because of the Easter weekend. To add to the problem, her telephone service at her apartment is now on the blink as is often the case in Russia. So there was no way to stay in contact with her father to know her mother's condition and my girl is starting to become very concerned.

To make a long story short, I ended up staying in a  room over a bowling alley that night freezing my tail off, no shower, nothing to eat and waiting for the bad guys to show up at any minute and rob me or worse. Some Russian bowling league was having a competition right below me so of course it was not possible to sleep. When morning finally came I called my girl on her cell phone and found out that her mother's condition was much improved.

Did I get all out of whack over this? No I didn't. I went and had some vodka with her father and forgot all about it. But my night in the room above the bowling alley in Hooterville, Russia was much worse than her 4 hours waiting in a (brand new) F250 on Miami Beach.

[Sonar]

I think it is easy to laugh at someone when you see them doing something like that but definately the wrong thing to do.   

 

TurboGuy,

It was really only a spontaneous chuckle kind of thing. Not a bold 'I'm laughing in your face because I think that you are a dummy.'

Most Russian's don't understand American humor.

[BC]

Sonar,

A serious relationship should be built on the principle of inclusion and not exclusion.

When I dated my wife she included me in her life, meeting family, friends, home, schools, jobs, dacha, personal history etc..

When she arrived here it was difficult but an absolute necessity for me to learn to include her in ALL my affairs both personal and business.  Either you open the door all the way or risk having it slammed in your face.

The simple act of leaving her in the car excluded her from an important part of your life..  Believe me I made similar mistakes very early on and it took a LOT of patience tears and hard work on both sides to work things out.

All in all it took us well over a year to properly get our act together.

[Sonar]

Sonar,

The simple act of leaving her in the car excluded her from an important part of your life.. 

BC, I understand that what you are saying is well intended. Along with almost everyone else.

Let me explain a little further. It was not a completed office building with an elevator.

It was a shell of a hi rise that was under construction, with an exterior 'buck hoist'. Not an elevator. It is used for lifting construction materials as well as construction workers. It stops at any floor as an elevator would, but it is nothing more than an open cage that travels up and down the side of the building.

There was absolutely no way that I would have taken her up into the 40th floor area with me. The ride up would have scared the hell out of her. There are even some construction workers that prefer to walk up the interior staircase rather than ride these things. It whould have not been the right thing to do. Especially with her wearing hi heels and a skirt.

In hindsight, what I should have done is leave her at home while I went to work. But I had already received the silent treatment for doing that the day before and she insisted on going with me that morning. As I said before, I expected to be no longer than 1 hour.

[Turboguy]

I have had times that I got so wrapped up in business that there could be a hurricane going on and I would miss it.   I really like your posts and your ideas and for all of us there are things we would have done differently.   

I am not saying this negativly towards you but if it were me, at the one hour point, I would have looked at my watch and said, guys, I know we have problems here.  I really must leave.  I will take 5 more minutes exactly by my watch and I am gone.  What can I do to help in this last 5 minutes.  

If in the morning when I went to the building I arrived and found it as a big pile of steel and brick that had collapsed because I was not there at least I would have had the satisfaction of knowing that I made my choices by what was really important in my life.

Don't take this personal.  I know if you had it to do over you would do it differently too.

[KenC]

Sonar,

You wrote:

You seem to discount the fact that when a guy travels to the FSU that he is also at the mercy of an entirely different culture. Normally he knows absolutely nobody other than the girl, he suffers jet lag and culture shock and most of the time does not know the language. Almost the same scenario as the Russian woman experiences here but maybe not quite as challenging for the man.

And then you tell a few stories about how your RW mistreated or mishandled thing during your visits to Russia.

None of this justifies your actions.  None.  Her mishandling your hotel reservations does not justify your hasty actions.  It is almost a childish justification.  You seem intent on "keeping score" or maintaining a compitition.  There is a huge difference between visting a foriegn country and relocating to one.  I find it difficult to believe that you truly feel that 7 days was enough time to make a decision on a 3 year relationship.  All your travel time, money spent, experiences shared, emotional bonds developed over a 3 year period, only to be flushed down the toilet after a mere 7 days?  Do you honestly think you gave her enough time to "settle in" and "settle down"?

KenC

[andrewfi]

Sonar ~ Even spun like a centrifuge it is obvious that you ran scared. If you were not you would at least have given her the time allowed by her visa.

I referred to the kidnap point as it is of course taken for granted that she is in your country voluntarily. If you misunderstood the point, please reread and confirm what was written. But, I begin to understand how it is that you were scared off so fast. You did not understand what was happening around you and you reacted in a perfectly normal manner - rejection.

Your case is interesting. You purposely 'misunderstood' the meaning of the K-1 visa so that it suited your purposes, post facto (after the fact) and you have tried to spin the case, yet everything you put on the table contributes to adding detail to the picture that you are trying hard to change. Obviously, you are not going to change, but others will see how guys react and can either ask questions of themselves and, perhaps, women of their men. If your 'fiancee' had had the insights into your character given in these few posts would she have turned her life upside down for you? I doubt it!

If another woman reads these posts, might she begin to ask questions of her prospective spouse? I surely hope so!

Would many guys reading your posts think that acting as you did was the right thing to do? I doubt it and so, guys might start to think about how to include their fiancee in their lives, how to occupy their time, how to bring them up to speed on the shared life and home situation.

Thanks!

[Sonar]

Sonar,

You wrote:

You seem to discount the fact that when a guy travels to the FSU that he is also at the mercy of an entirely different culture. Normally he knows absolutely nobody other than the girl, he suffers jet lag and culture shock and most of the time does not know the language. Almost the same scenario as the Russian woman experiences here but maybe not quite as challenging for the man.

And then you tell a few stories about how your RW mistreated or mishandled thing during your visits to Russia.

None of this justifies your actions.  None.  Her mishandling your hotel reservations does not justify your hasty actions.  It is almost a childish justification.  You seem intent on "keeping score" or maintaining a compitition.  There is a huge difference between visting a foriegn country and relocating to one.  I find it difficult to believe that you truly feel that 7 days was enough time to make a decision on a 3 year relationship.  All your travel time, money spent, experiences shared, emotional bonds developed over a 3 year period, only to be flushed down the toilet after a mere 7 days?  Do you honestly think you gave her enough time to "settle in" and "settle down"?

KenC

You know I'm really getting tired of this. I was not trying to justify any damn thing. Only pointing out that a guy can have similar problems. But of course that doesn't count in your book.

Bottom line to this is that I became involved with a spoiled crybaby. Just didn't realize how much of a spoiled crybaby until I brought her here. An unreasonable woman does not work for me.

SHE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS NOT READY FOR THIS, NOT ME !!!!!!!!

Like I said, I loved the girl and sacraficed very much for her also.

I also loved my former American wife, but when I knew that it was over, I accepted it and moved on. Nothing was different with the Russian girl. We were simply not as compatible here in my country as in hers.

WE BOTH REALIZED THIS, UNDERSTOOD IT AND ACCEPTED IT.

What else was there to do? Hang onto something that had close to a zero chance of a successful outcome? I am old enough and wise enough to know when to throw in the towel. 1 day, 7 days, 30 days, 89 days really make no difference when it reaches this point.

[Sonar]

It may take some guys 30-60-90 days to realize if they are compatible with their foreign fiancee' here in America.

For me, unfortunately, it took only 7 days to realize that we were NOT compatible.

Thanks, The 7 day guy.

[KenC]

Sonar,

You bring new meaning to the title "One Week Wonder."  There is no way you could ever convince me (and many others here) that you gave it enough time.  Why on earth would a guy pull the plug after only a week when he had spent 156 weeks (3 years) building a relationship?  Other than panic.

You still want to blame her with your:

'SHE WAS THE ONE THAT WAS NOT READY FOR THIS, NOT ME !!!!!!!!"

Um, according to your account of the situation, you sent her back, she didn't request to return.



[/b]

Like I said, I loved the girl and sacraficed very much for her also.

You have no clue as to the meaning of "love" let alone "sacrafice."

KenC


[/size]

[Turboguy]

Sonar, I am on your side in this.  I think you did what seemed right for you at the time but I have to say Ken made some really good points and had me laughing my A@@ off.   Let it slide off and don't worry about it.  There are a lot of one week wonders here, they just did it differently. 

[andrewfi]

TG ~ There can be little doubt but that he did the right thing. His own words tell us he is the wrong guy to be undertaking this venture. If a person does not have what it takes, it is better to recognise it and deal with early (no matter what the spin one later uses!), than to continue and make life even worse. To that degree  to Sonar. But OTOH, the whole thing was built upon sand if after just seven days he realises that all the previous three years were a waste of time. Something was badly wrong before they had the interview. IMHO if he had had greater self awareness, he would not have ended up messing with this woman's life. I sincerely hope he learns his lesson and does not become a repeat offender.

There are probably closer parallels to your story than either of you think...  If Sonar is telling us something close to the truth then he, for sure, missed or ignored issues that were present long before she had her interview, just as you did and for the same reasons. This does not make either of you bad people, but it might make you both risky prospects for any woman from another country!

[Sonar]

Sonar ~ Even spun like a centrifuge it is obvious that you ran scared. If you were not you would at least have given her the time allowed by her visa.

I referred to the kidnap point as it is of course taken for granted that she is in your country voluntarily. If you misunderstood the point, please reread and confirm what was written. But, I begin to understand how it is that you were scared off so fast. You did not understand what was happening around you and you reacted in a perfectly normal manner - rejection.

Your case is interesting. You purposely 'misunderstood' the meaning of the K-1 visa so that it suited your purposes, post facto (after the fact) and you have tried to spin the case, yet everything you put on the table contributes to adding detail to the picture that you are trying hard to change. Obviously, you are not going to change, but others will see how guys react and can either ask questions of themselves and, perhaps, women of their men. If your 'fiancee' had had the insights into your character given in these few posts would she have turned her life upside down for you? I doubt it!

If another woman reads these posts, might she begin to ask questions of her prospective spouse? I surely hope so!

Would many guys reading your posts think that acting as you did was the right thing to do? I doubt it and so, guys might start to think about how to include their fiancee in their lives, how to occupy their time, how to bring them up to speed on the shared life and home situation.

Thanks!

A guy can only do so many backflips for a woman. NOTHING IN MY STORY IS CHANGING TO SUIT MY NEEDS as you are insinuating. Only more info added. I never intended to write a book about this, but there are many more details to this than meet the eye. I only gave the basics at first.

The fact that she refused to bring the computer with her (my computer I might add) made me suspicious that either:

A: She had no intentions of actually staying here with me ( her parents have no clue how to use it and are not even slightly interested): or :

B: There were things that she had to hide that would have been revealed to me on MY computer.

The fact that she told me a HUGE lie while speaking on her cell phone to someone that she claimed was her mother. In case you missed it, I was speaking to her mother on another phone at the exact same time that she claimed to be. The only explanation I got from her was "IT WAS MY MISTAKE".

As far as I am concerned "Once a liar, always a liar". I had caught her in other lies before although not as serious as that one.

I won't say all but I will say that some Russian women have a local boyfriend in Russia at the same time that they have a fiancee' in America. Anyone that does not believe this is naive.

My suspicion (I hate to admit this) was that she possibly had a local boyfriend at the same time that she was professing her undying love for me. At what point in time he came into the picture, I don't know. Since I have no positive proof of this I will only say that it became a strong suspicion. I also had reasons to be suspicious other than the strange cell phone calls that she received several times per day while she was here.

If you want detail, maybe I'll give it to you, maybe I won't. It really doesn't matter since you seem to think that you are so in tune with my character flaws. What a joke!

If you are still so intent on giving her every benefit of the doubt, then you either don't know much about women or else you are on some kind of self serving crusade.

The more that I am questioned and doubted here, the more that it comes to mind how manipulative and controlling this woman really was. The more that I think about it, the more I realize that my mistake was bringing her here in the first place.

She is a very beautiful woman. Sometimes the sweetest woman a man could ever aks for. Sometimes the daughter of satan. I had a big problem with the latter.

Anyone that doesn't realize that women like this exist>> WAKE UP !!!

Thank you, The 7 day guy 

 

[Sonar]

You have no clue as to the meaning of "love" let alone "sacrafice."

KenC


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I have no clue as to the meaning of love? Ok Ken, what is your meaning of love? I would be interested to know. Since the word 'love' has many different meanings to many different people and is a word that describes a human emotion that is really impossible to completely explain, it seems very subjective to tell someone that they have no clue of the meaning.

On the night of the cell phone incident, she became bi*chy and wanted me to take her to Miami and get her a hotel room. Maybe it was not a request to go back to Russia but it definately made me feel that she did not want to be here.

[Ste]

Sonar, mate I suspect you've never seen the British Film 'Kes' made in the 70's and a gritty Northern kitchen-sink drama.....

One famous scene at the school - a round of smokers are queueing up to be caned by the headmaster for being caught in possession cigarettes....

One kid is only there to give the headmaster a note and despite pleading his innocence he ends getting well caned too!

That kid is you mate! Came to help, add a bit of assistance, ends up getting pilloried!

Sorry, great movie tho!

Ste

[Sonar]

Sonar, I am on your side in this.  I think you did what seemed right for you at the time but I have to say Ken made some really good points and had me laughing my A@@ off.   Let it slide off and don't worry about it.  There are a lot of one week wonders here, they just did it differently. 

Well TurboGuy, since I am the one exposed here, of course I will bear the heat. It's not a problem for me.

Maybe Ken and some others have never had a serious problem with a woman before. I don't know but I doubt it. I'm very happy for anyone that has a successful relationship with an FSU woman. One of my best friends has been married to a girl from Kazan for 7 years. (Oh no, there's that number again). They are very happy together and have a great relationship. It's a really great story.

But of course they have also had their problems just as anyone else. It would be easy for me to analyze their problems and find a way to blame them all on my friend and give every benefit of the doubt to his wife. But I think that would be a very closed minded way of thinking.

I'm not going to continue to argue about any of this. It's a waste of time since I have already been tried and convicted. I just get a good laugh at some of the extreem obstinance of a couple of guys here.

By the way. My friend and his Russian wife totally agree that I made the correct decision.

[Sonar]

Sonar, mate I suspect you've never seen the British Film 'Kes' made in the 70's and a gritty Northern kitchen-sink drama.....

One famous scene at the school - a round of smokers are queueing up to be caned by the headmaster for being caught in possession cigarettes....

One kid is only there to give the headmaster a note and despite pleading his innocence he ends getting well caned too!

That kid is you mate! Came to help, add a bit of assistance, ends up getting pilloried!

Sorry, great movie tho!

Ste

HaHa. Don't give a damn about some stupid movie, mate.

By the way,  I don't know anything about your situation. Care to reveal something?

I'm sure that I can also find a movie that would match you just fine.

[Ste]

Sonar, mate I suspect you've never seen the British Film 'Kes' made in the 70's and a gritty Northern kitchen-sink drama.....

One famous scene at the school - a round of smokers are queueing up to be caned by the headmaster for being caught in possession cigarettes....

One kid is only there to give the headmaster a note and despite pleading his innocence he ends getting well caned too!

That kid is you mate! Came to help, add a bit of assistance, ends up getting pilloried!

Sorry, great movie tho!

Ste

HaHa. Don't give a damn about some stupid movie, mate.

By the way, I don't know anything about your situation. Care to reveal something?

I'm sure that I can alsofind a movie that would match you just fine.
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Blimey, touchy aren't we?

My situation is fine, I've not sent mine back yet.

Ste