Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[BC]

Mod,

Actually I would cut and paste from Sonar's first post on page 12 of this thread to a new thread that way Sonar could decide what to do with it and Turbo can continue his thread uninterrupted.

[Turboguy]

No it if fine Mod,   It just seemed like it was past the productive stuff and down to name calling and bloodshed so I was just wanting to get things calmer and to get back to a more productive situation.

Photo, good question.  Right now I don't have a lot of time, I will come back in a short while and try to say what I think I have learned from my mistakes.

[Sonar]

I really can't see that where this thread is going will help anyone and personally I think it would be great if we could cool things off before this thread gets moved to anything goes or gets locked. 

You are all better guys than you are showing here.  Cool down!.  Lets go back to helping each other.   This is my thread so I hope I am not out of place in saying that.

Turboguy,

Yes you are absolutelty correct. When I originally posted here, I felt that your situation and mine were somewhat related although not completely. It seemed like the appropriate place.

Debating these type of issues is very similar to debating the theory of evolution. A common median is difficult to find and neither side can be proven right or wrong. Soon the argument becomes pointless.

Some of my critics here believe that their point of view is the only logical conclusion, simply beacuse it is their point of view. Unwilling to even consider that another outcome could be valid. I accept that type of reasoning no more than I accept the idea that my ancestors were monkeys. Conjecture, based on biased opinion, does not equal fact.

Thanks for listening and my apologies for interupting your discussion. I had no idea that it would go this far.

[Turboguy]

Hi Sonar,  Thanks,  I know you did not expect some of the things that happened, and yes there were both similarities and differences.

A while back I started to think some of the people who post here were real jerks.  There were a few people I did not much care for.   It was not so much they were causing me any problems, it was more watching them attack others and to me getting  very carried away and just never letting up.

The reality of it is a lot of these people are pretty smart guys and although they may not do things the way I would, the way they deal with what they see is their way of trying to help people, not hurt them.

I think things are cooling down now, just relax, take a deep breath, keep the rest of the story to yourself if you want.   I think we have said all we can.  I am going to post an addition to my trust question in an hour or so. In view of your experience I would find your answer interesting when I add that on, but on the other hand it may open a can of worms, so do what you want.

There are a lot of jerks here but they are good jerks sonar and are out to help so I am looking forward to a lot of good posts from you in the future.   May the seas of RWD be smoother for you in the future.

 

[Sonar]

Turboguy,

You are really a great guy. I'm glad to know you here.

[Turboguy]

Thank you Sonar.  I am glad I am here too.   I have been here almost from the start.  If this board had existed a few years earlier and I had found it, my life might be a lot different now.   I have learned a lot here.

I am sure you might have had some moments where you thought you were going to forget this place existed.   Don't do that.  You will learn a lot, including how to make your dreams come true.

 

[jb]

I've tried to stay out of this thread simply because I don't have a dog  in this fight, however I do wonder what impression a newbie will get  after reading this tripe.  Am I the only one here who sees the  irony of two failed K-1'er, (Turbo and Sonar), patting each other on  the back, exchanging congratulations, and telling each other what great  guys they are?  Maybe it's time to break out the whisky and throw  a party.  In fact, IMHO neither of these two men are to be  congratulated, and certainly not to be emulated.   They took  the test, were measured, and found wanting by the RWs.  Probably  both are nice guys and would be great company over a couple of pivas,  but would anyone want to have their experience in their hip pocket?

While I didn't hang on every word of virtual ink wasted on this thread,  and we, (at least me), don't know much about Sonar's vitals, however,  he said he saw similarities in TG's thread and what he had  experienced.  I'm only assuming there was a significant age gap,  little cultural understanding on her part, and the silent pouting is a  major tip off to a young and immature personality, I could be wrong but  I do wonder at such things.  A bad situation further exacerbated  by almost no patience or planning on Sonar's part.  Seven days may  be a record.   When my wife first arrived I took two weeks off to  show her the sights and do a little shopping, then we settled in for  the long haul stuff.  Seven days, as noted, falls into the snap  decision catagory.  If there are parallels in the two stories,  then there are certainly lessons to be learned by the newbie, namely,  don't do anything the way Turbo and Sonar did them, and surely consider  anything said by either man to be suspect advice.  Find someone  else with a bit of credibility to fashion a plan after.

Crash and burn stories proliferate around these boards, in fact, the  bad stories far out number the good ones.  Does anyone remember  Bean's situation?  As long as the cash flowed from the "wallet on  legs", everything was roses.  However, when a tight spot appeared,  and the stock portfolio took a hit after 9-11, suddenly,,, Bean had  "ruined" her life.  It seems Marina was a 1st class gold  digger.  Just one example, there are just too many others to list  here.

TigerPaws likes to boast about his wealth, his boat, his house, his  island, his etc., but don't you wonder how long his marriage would last  if the well suddenly went dry?  He also likes to say that power  and money are the key ingredients to a successful marriage, "the  lubricants of love",  to that I say,,, Bollsheet~!  Power and  money are only ingredients if you marry a gold digger.  IIRC, TP's  first thread here was about iron clad pre-nups, offshore bank accounts,  and other sundry tips for hiding money from your wife-to-be.  This  is not a marriage, this is a business deal.  Incidentally, just  about any lawyer worth his salt can defeat any pre-nup, no matter how  iron clad you think it is, and juries in civil divorce cases love to  stick it up a rich man's backside if they think he's tried to screw  over the little woman.   I also wonder how many broken  relationships litter such a man's past.

How many newbies here think that is something to envy?

Let's be clear about what is a marriage, and what domestic  relationships are all about. If you a mid 40's-50's kinda guy and  think, like some here, that only youth and beauty are paramount,,, that  you cannot find happiness without going for the brass ring, or,,, that  you somehow deserve everything your little heart desires, or,,, to  regain your own mis-spent youth you have to have a childlike, teenie  bopper, trophy bride, or,,, worse yet,,, that you can do this MOB  thingy from your computer keyboard without investing of yourself, your  time, and lots of your money,  IMHO, you'd best disenchant  yourself of that illusion, you are setting yourself up to fail on all  fronts.  Marriage is a tough job even without the added burdens of  cross-culture and language difficulties, if you couldn't pull it off  with a local gal you need to understand that you are going to have to  work ten times harder to pull it off with a woman from the FSU.

I don't like to be a nay-sayer all the time, I love it when I see a  well matched couple succeed and I often applaud loudly when I see a  good plan come together.  The bad news is I don't get that chance  too frequently.  The deal killers are usually unrealistic  expectations on one party's side or the other.  Some of you guys  need to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Son of Clyde]

JB,

The point of a discussion board is to discuss.

When it turns ugly it is time to back off. A failed K1 is not the end of the world and anyone who suffers through one needs a little support.

I agree with Sonar that Turboguy is a great guy. JB and Leslie may be great guys too but I don't always see it here.  Would you guys be any different if we were to sit down and have a beer? I would think you would be as friendly as any other guy, but why not on these boards?

[Turboguy]

Thanks for the input jb.  Truthfully, I think that was a good post.  I think you made a lot of good points.   The only real advice I remember giving Sonar was to not give up on RWD, that he could learn a lot here.  Truthfully, I think you are one of the people he can learn a lot from.  I know I have.

Perhaps Sonar and I are both a couple of stubling idiots trying to find the gold ring in the dark world of our dreams.  RWD will help light up the situation for us a lot.  I think I said a while back in this thread that if I had this place a few years ago, I might have avoided some mistakes. 

Of course you might also take into mind that some of us are hopeless.   We will chase our fantasies to the end.  At least your adivce and the advice of others will help us to avoid some of the pitfalls on our foolish quest.

As far as Tiger Paws, it is unlikely that those things will happen.  His wife may like the life, but hopefully she has learned to love him too, and maybe she would bolt if things went astray, maybe not.   Personally, I think she is there through thick and thin.  You are right.  A good lawyer can void a pre-nup.  Usually it does not happen though.  I think his advice about a pre-nup was good advice for those with something to protect.

Thanks for the input.  It was wise advice like always.

[Turboguy]

Thanks Clyde.  You are right.  I think some of these guys mean well but I think they could say the same thing and get their point across better if they swung the clue bat with more compassion and consideration. 

It always bothers me a bit when they try to make thier point so bluntly.  There are good ideas and I think we can learn from them.  We will learn faster and easier if they discuss rather than attack.

[jb]

SofC,

You miss the point.  It isn't about lending support for a failed  K-1'er, those men made their choices, and as TG often said, he knew  there was risk in his plan.  I can only surmise Sonar knew he was  playing with fire as well.   It goes without saying that when a  K-1 goes sour,  time is taken from people's lives, in most cases  that amount of time is measured in years.  Courtships and visas  don't happen overnight, as you should well know. If the 50's y.o. man  is certain he has the years to waste, then I guess your asssumption  that it isn't the end of the world has some value.  However, if he  heads back to the FSU for another go at it, unrepentant of his past  mistakes, without having learned anything, then it might as well be the  end of the world as he knows it.  We only get so many chances to  land the big fish, best to make better use of your time and  resources. 

All of these things were pointed out to Barney17 and he wound up  frittering away a great deal of time unnecessarily, don't you think?

[jb]

You are quite right, TG, I'm not one to sugar coat anything.

When I heard that one of my most bitterly disliked enemies had come  down with cancer and died, I rejoiced.  I was as least honest,  rather than mouth soft words at his passing, I said, "Yes~!, Good for  him".

I do not wish you ill or harm, I do wish you the knowledge and wisdom to not repeat your past mistakes. 

[BC]

Free advice may be a bit brutal but it's much better than paying someone to tell you what you want to hear

[Turboguy]

Having wasted more years than a handful of you put together, I can agree with the wisdom of that statement. 

Perhaps I will repeat some mistakes, but if I do it will be with a lot more knowlege of what is important and what I should be doing.   I will always do my best to not make the same mistake two times.  I think I am now armed with some new approaches and a better idea of what is important.  I have tried to learn a little from everyone here.

[Bruno]

Ok, if so situation appear to me, i will not inform you... so, you will never know these joyce :P:P

[KenC]

jb,

Very wise and valuable post.

I think it is ironic that Turbo and Sonar are viewed as similar.  The only thing I see that they have in common is a failed K-1.  Other than that they are Polar opposites.  I have great respect for Turbo, not that I agree with his choices, but he goes into this with his eyes wide open.  He seems to understand the inherent risks, but cautiously proceeds.  When his K-1 did fail, he took it well and chalked it up to a calculated risk he took that went south.  If any man can overcome the risks of this venture, it will be Turbo.

The other side of the coin is Sonar.  He accepts no resonsibility what so ever for his failure.  In fact he insistantly maintains that he did everything right and that his failure is the deed of others.  He plays a victim of the CO in the embassy, his exwife, and a bad RW. With an attitude like that, I doubt he will ever succeed in this process.

KenC

[jb]

I don't know either of these men personally, other than what they post  here, it's hard to say who's right or wrong, but I almost choked when  swallowing the seven day/send her home story.  That was a bit  much, and I thought I'd heard all the tales up to that point.  The  essence of what I glean from stories like this is that some men have  only their own interests in mind, and pursue a path based solely on  what they want with no regard for what the "other half" may have in  mind. 

I think any man should re-evaluate his motives when he sees the need to  attract women with the green lure.   It will usually backfire  on him with terrible results.

[andrewfi]

There are many differences and one overriding and very significant similarity. Both guys MUST have overlooked issues in the relationship before the girl went to the interview and on to the US. We know that TG did because, afterward, he told us so, and, of course, it was already pretty plain from previous posts that he was well fitted with blinkers!

Sonar, OTOH, if he did not overlook issues beforehand, certainly found a load in a tiny amount of time, if he is to be believed. As we know that people do not change in any significant manner in a very short period of time, we can discount the 'personality change' argument. So, he had not done his due diligence, or not kept good notes and thus did not know his inamorata at all well, even though they had had a 'relationship' lasting 3 years. In Sonar's case he then ran away as soon as he found, at a time, for her in particular, of immense stress, that she did not act exactly as she had done in the comfort of her home environment. She (and he) might have been great once she had settled down and he had learned to give something of himself, to do his job properly.

 

[Son of Clyde]

I will have to agree that maintaining a foreign bride is not an easy ordeal.

Actually, 80% of the time it is a pleasure and only an ordeal when there are misunderstandings. You have to expect this because there is no textbook on marriage to a RW. This has been said on the boards.

I don't know Sonar but I have spoken with Turboguy and I know he gave it his best shot. The only thing he may have not done is to hire a detective to spy on her. He did it without her knowledge after sensing there was a problem. Maybe the keylogger was the best thing he could have done. As far as I can see this is water under the bridge because he did the wise thing and let her go and started over. This takes courage after having your heart ripped out. Some guys would have given up completely.

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Turbo has his eyes wide open and gets credit for his adventurous spirit (as does Anono). I don't know if Sonar's eyes are open.

Andrewfin said about Turbo: [color="black"]'...he was well fitted with [color="blue"]blinkers[/color].'[/color] That's an interesting picture. Turn signals? ...Probably a typo.

jb said [color="black"]'...I'm not one to sugar coat anything.'[/color] ...Oh, really?
[/color][/size][size="3"][color="darkred"] Here's the thing- There IS a middle ground between 'sugar-coating' and being abrasively blunt. You know that's true, but I guess it's easier to be blunt, (probably just like daddy?)[/color][/size][/b]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]I have to give credit where credit is due. jb, your post was a good one, and also -it was a little less offensive than many of your previous posts.

I only disagree with your assessment of Tiger. Yes, he used the power of green, but I agree with Bruno. Power and money do not necessarily exclude genuine love and devotion. I can see the value in the idea, that as a game-plan, going over to the FSU and using your wealth as a lure is a really bad idea, because it will attract and encourage gold-diggers. If you want to make that valid point, go ahead, but I think it's a mistake to judge and over-simplify Tiger's relationship.[/color][/size]

[andrewfi]

Blinkers are what racehorses wear to stop them being distracted by anything but the horse in front of them, or the finishing line.

[Photo Guy]

Oops. :brightidea:  Okay....yes, maybe he was.

[Bruno]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

I will have to agree that maintaining a foreign bride is not an easy ordeal.

Actually, 80% of the time it is a pleasure and only an ordeal when there are misunderstandings. You have to expect this because there is no textbook on marriage to a RW. This has been said on the boards.

By experience, i can say that maintening a russian bride is 80% hell... they are really not easy women...  but if you are good, the 20 other % are more like paradise and replace withouth problem the other 80%...

And really, if good textbook over RW don't exist, it is for a simple reason... you have not one type of RW but million... ain a country with 11 time zone, almost the half of the world, you have so much different women and culture that one receipt don't apply to the other... Several newbies are wrong to think that RW are easy woman but if you are strong enough to handle them, maybe you can find the happiness...

A proverb say that the best secret of KGB is the russian women

Photoguy wrote :

jb said '...I'm not one to sugar coat anything.' ...Oh, really?
Here's the thing- There IS a middle ground between 'sugar-coating' and being abrasively blunt.[/color][/font][/size]

Here, i don't more agree... sometime JB can be to much sharp but he say always what he think... honesty is a value that i respect... honesty can be hard to hear in some case but it not chance the value of the advice...

And really, if one here cannot support the comment of JB, what the hel search a RW... in case of argument, a RW is more hard that JB... it is not a advice but a cultural fact... Russian woman are great but they are not the easy one... hunt them only if you feel yourself enough strong !!!

I know enough russian people ( both men and women ) for say that when it come to argument, they are at the "abrasive" side... so , be ready :cool:

 

[jb]

Andrew,

In America we say "blinders" instead of "blinkers".

[Photo Guy]

Okay Bruno. I will brace myself for her abrasive side. And then I'll try to reform her. I'll make sure my guns are locked up.