Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[Voyageur]

I just thought that I would let everyone know about a very bad situation with Turboguy, who posts here quite often. He is now in Moscow with his fiancee. They were supposed to get the K1 visa, but the unbelieveable happened at the interview. On other boards, it has been noticed that a certain male Consular Officer (CO) at the US Embassy in Moscow who may be of Mexican or Indian descent, is really giving a hard time to the women he interviews.

Well, Turboguy's fiancee got this CO, and it turned into the K1 interview from hell. The CO was dismayed that Turboguy's fiancee could not conduct the interview in English. As I understand it, Turboguy had about 2,500 emails, and the CO wanted to see most of them. Also, from what he wrote on the other site, Turboguy did not talk to his fiancee much on the telephone.

So, right now his fiancee does not have her visa and they are in administrative review. He cannot get anyone to talk with him about it. His fiancee mentioned something about "fate".

Anyway, this situation is really terrible in my opinion. I know that Turboguy thought that he was really well prepared and did his homework. I personally do not think that the bar should be set higher at the sole discretion of the CO's, for some people rather than others, it should be consistent in the case of a financee.

I have never personally spoken to Turboguy, and do no know him, but we have traded a few PMs, and I really feel bad for him, and the capriciousness of the CO in this case, and how it will effect his relationship with his fiancée.  No government should have his power, after certain criteria are met to establish without doubt, the existence of a real relationship.  My prayers and thoughts go out to him. I wish him the best of luck.

[Bruno]

Sad for turbo...

Now, i have a technical question... if he marry in Russia and apply for a K3 procedure, can he use the previously document ? Is the interview always needed since they are already married... Do he need to start all from zero in case of K3 procedure...

Seriously, all will be more easy if USA allow tourist visa... like for Europa... the actual procedure is heavy and led to more problem that resolved...

Maybe a personal visa to USA will be a wonder... it is when the person who invit say that they are responsible to the person who visit... we have such visa here in Belgium...

I hope all will become good for Turbo

 

[Bruce]

Bruno - you just find great pictures!  Sorry about Turboguy.  I believe, but someone more knowledgable of immigration law should add and or correct, that if a guy lives in Russia for six months he can marry a girl and apply for a direct consular filing. 

Voyageur, sorry to hear about Turboguy.  Any guy who posts so often on boards like this one has learned alot and probably had a much more solid relationship than the majority of the guys out there taking "turrs," doing a K-1, meeting their "girl," who probably was really a stripgirl by profession, at the airport six months or so later and paying her off / sending her home ten weeks later.  Hopefully, after "administrative review" the CO fool will be appropriately reprimanded and Turbo's fiance will be allowed into the USA.  It really bothers me that a US citizen like Turbo, who obviously is the kind of guy we all respect (whether we agree with all his opinions or not), has been hassled already in "the process." 

[Bruno]

Bruno - you just find great pictures!

I have a other one... a russian woman using her computer after a refusal for the K1... hope it will never come true... for anybody...

I believe, but someone more knowledgable of immigration law should add and or correct, that if a guy lives in Russia for six months he can marry a girl and apply for a direct consular filing.

 
For my first marriage, i have marry in Russia... no need to stay 6 month... around 4 week was enough... time for paperwork, register the future marriage, marry and again paperwork for Belgium ambassy... two week after, i have receive the aproval for immigration in Belgium... but, it is always a "but"... we have need wait a administrative delay from 6 month before the effective immigration... the paperwork is send to all shengen country... and they have a delay of 6 month for make a refusal... Belgium ambassy need wait the end of these delay before give the immigration visa...

Now, my scenario was the following... Turbo is in Russia... if he marry his woman now, in Russia... the K1 is not more needed, they can apply for the K3... since a lot of document are the same, can he use the same documents... is it again a interview for a K3...

In any case, now, if someone ask me if it is needed to be present for the interview for the K1, i go always reply "yes"... i think that it can be a big support for the fiance in case of problem...

If the CO begin to be so difficult, maybe in some time, it will be needed to prove that you have make love... be ready to make some xxx photo of yourself with your lady... really, review 2500 e-mails are in some way against the right of private life... "big brother" is coming !!!

[wxman]

I think it is terrible that turboguy and his fiance are going through hell. It is not right for one little want a be tyrant to make it hard for them to have a happy life together. I do not understand these embassy people. My fiance had her interview in Kiev and it was completely different. The interviewer asked her how she was that morning, and then told her everything seemed to be in order and granted her visa. She also didnt have an official record of her name changes, but he still granted visa, and all she had to do was go back to her city, get the document and send it back to him fed ex. Why some interviewers are excellent and others are jerks just makes me shake my head. Maybe they are told to give the women from Russia more scrutiny, and give the Ukrainian women less scrutiny since their new president is pro west and the US now has an ally that will annoy Russia.

[RacerX]

If turboguy has been wronged I think we will all feel badly for him, but just for the record: what was the exact reason for the AR?  

....didn't think so!

I for one, would not defend a CO we all know little about, but could it just be there was grounds for his actions?  
 

[jb]

TurboGuy was forewarned that this might happen.  COs are now instructed to conduct interviews in only in English these days. If doing the interview in English is not possible they are to look at the relationship very closely.  If there is evidence that the relationship is not solid it is supposed to be reviewed.

As I understand it, these new rules for interviews are less than 60 days old.

[Voyageur]

As I understand it, the CO was not pleased that the woman did not want to speak English, but Russian. This is not a requirement, as far as I have read on the Embassy site, for approval for a K1 visa. Also, the telephone records were not many for some reason. I know that he has written in this forum that he went to see her a few times. Maybe he did not print out all of his emails, but just printed a log of the the titles.  He mentioned that the CO asked for the name of his mother, how many times he was married, the street address where he lived and even his zip code.  To me, this is not a reasonable request.

I know that he was very well prepared, we visit the same Visa  Journey forum. If speaking English is a requirement, this should be clearly stated in the instruction packet or on the website, IMHO.

[Admin]

TurboGuy was forewarned that this might happen.  COs are now instructed to conduct interviews in only in English these days. If doing the interview in English is not possible they are to look at the relationship very closely.  If there is evidence that the relationship is not solid it is supposed to be reviewed.

As I understand it, these new rules for interviews are less than 60 days old.

Actually, this happened to Olya and I at the interview in Warsaw in 2001. I suspect it was not as stringent then as it may be now, but the CO clearly stated to Olya (before he saw me) that he was going to conduct the interview in English "because he believes that all couples must be able to communicate." Boy was he shocked when I piped up and told him I know Russian and will be happy to translate for them . From that point on, he posed 90 % of the questions to me - which seemed really strange - and those he posed to Olya, I translated (as well as the responses). We passed the interview.

I hope Turbo can get past this problem. I worry as much about his fiance's comment about "fate." If you know how superstitious some of these girls can be, you know that is potentially the death knell for their relationship - and that would be unfortunate indeed.

- Dan

[jb]

Voyageur

I know you think TurboGuy's g/f got a bum deal, perhaps she did.  I don't know one way or the other.  I do know that the CO was not a Mexican, or an Indian, he would have to have been an American, our Embassies do not subcontract this task out to foreign nationals.

I also do know I saw a blurb from the U.S. State Department recently which instructed Consular personel to be more attentive to K-1 applicants.  I even brought this to TurboGuy's attention right here on this very board.

The purpose of the K-1 visa is to allow a couple a decent amount of time to plan a wedding.  It is for couples who already know each other well enough to marry.  It would be really hard to prove a solid relationship with a woman you cannot talk to if you think about it.  If Turbo's girl knew him well enough to marry him, she'd know at least his street address and how many times he had been married in the past, and probably something about his family.

Too many times guys bring a k-1 girl over and think of the 90 day visa as a trial run with a girl and if they don't like her at the end of the 90 day "trial marriage" they can ship her back to her home country.  I think what we are seeing is the State Department is tightening their view on that aspect of the visa process.

The K-1 visa is not, I repeat, NOT, a 90 day trial marriage.

[ConnerVT]

I thought the same thing as Dan about the fate comment.  I know I heard a bit of it from my wife when our petition was hung up in Moscow for 7 months.  "Why does your government not want us to be together?" was said many times.

It took a lot of encouragement and determination on my part (as well as traveling every three months) to help her past those feelings.  It's good that Turbo is there right now.  I hope he can hide his frustration, and show her he is dedicated and determined to get through this.

[Voyageur]

jb,

I only mentioned the nationality of the CO to distinguish him from the other CO's. I understand that foriegn nationals are not empowered to decide on US citizen's fiancee's K1 Visa applications.

I do not know for sure if his fiancee did - or did not - know the answers to the questions, I am sure you read this from the same site as I did.

And the real point of my thread, is (IMHO) it that it is not the State Department's perogative to make judgement calls on a relationship on a K1 visa with parameters that are not clearly stated. If it is a clear requirement to know English, it should be stated, not subject to interpretation by some CO that has a higher or lower standard than their collegues.

Clearly, it is within the perview of the CO to make a judgement call. But in this instance, it seems too extreme for me. I mean 2,500 emails and a few visits seem like more proof of a relationship than some of the stories I (and most likely, you) have heard concerning the granting of this visa in other instances.

[Bruce]

Voyageur - could you put a link here or cut and paste the original information.  People like myself long banned from RWG can not read what you are talking about.  Thanks.

[jb]

I agree with much of what you say, I merely stated the latest round of thinking going on within the Embassy Consular Section regarding the granting of K-1 visas.  And if you read the rules carefully, the CO can reject an applicant for any reason.  There is no such thing as a foreign national who has a right to a visa, regardless of who is the sponsor. Turbo's girl is no different.  The U.S. Department of State does not operate at the convenience of the citizenery.

Now he has other options, he can protest the decision, and ultimately probably win.  It will have the same result, just take some additional time.

Or,,, he can stay in Russia to be with the woman he truly loves. That has always been sort of the true test of a relationship to my way of thinking.  

How much does Turbo really love this girl?  If he throws in the towel after this dissappointment, then he didn't love her enough and the CO was correct in his decision.

[wxman]

I guess i don't understand why some embassies have a higher standard than others. They asked my fiance one question, and it had nothing to do with me. She was shocked that it was so easy. Maybe because I am a Federal employee, and know the procedures for filing internal complaints etc, maybe because I did use a lawyer who said they would file complaint if it was denied, or because my fiance has such a wonderful smile.  I doubt all of these, because none of them pull any weight.  Maybe, just maybe, he was a nice guy not on a power trip. (more likely than anything else I can think of)

[BC]

I think the 'what if' scenario has passed through many of our  minds jumping these burocratic hurdles.

Knowing what we know here would we make good CO's?  Where would we draw the line?  I think what would probably happen is that we would likely refuse many many more visas than this  'bad' CO did.

Who knows.. maybe this CO is a lurking member here or on another board?  Would be quite unusual if they did not 'know' about us..

In any case all should not be 'lost'.. Their relationship can continue albeit with slightly altered circumstances.

I would view this as a challenge instead of disaster.

[wxman]

The CO could be a young guy trying to make an impression to his boss, and when they tell him to jump, he asks how high. Those CO jobs are just a stepping stone, and most want to get out of there. Some actually do enjoy their jobs and are more professional. Sounds like this guy is trying to move up quickly and trying to impress those in the know back in the states.

The ambassador has little input, as he is just a friend and big contributor to the presidental campaign. Most of those people have no clue and rely on the career employees to make him/her look good (or bad). I doubt most of the ambassadors even know what a K1 visa is.   They just like going to the free dinners and meetings where people stroke their egos.

[Voyageur]

Bruce,

Here is the link, it is to the Visa Journey site, not the RWG.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28858&st=1200

[Bruce]

Voyageur, thanks for the link.  I did not realize that was the site you were referring to.

[jb]

BC

Knowing what we know here would we make good CO's? Where would we draw the line?

Actually, I think this should be the "gold standard" of interview criteria.  I'm sure that if I were a CO, interviewing a young, hot, early 20's RW, engaged to a man in his 50's with a couple of failed marriages in his past, I'd probably be fairly critical.  Add to the mix that they can't communicate one-on-one, and the red flags would be waving in my mind for sure.

I don't wish ill for T/G, but the interviewer may have just saved him a ton of grief.

[Michelangelo]

Maybe we should make up a "tip sheet" for these interviews?  Much like teachers in the USA who "teach to the test?"  Or maybe this already exists somewhere?  At least we all know now that our girl must memorize our addresses?  And even though i have written my girl many letters, I sure as heck still get out her address card to label the envelope.  

Such stupid questions!  Maybe we should ask the CO to name all the capitals of the US states

[Voyageur]

In my opinion, I wish I had not started this thread. I was outraged at the outcome of this K1 interview and thought that this forum would be a good place to discuss it.

It is way to easy to criticize someone's relationship WHO IS NOT PRESENT and cannot defend himself. And Turboguy has enough heartache without having to deal with something he did not start, when he comes home from Russia alone and reads some views on this forum.

A public apology is in order to you, from me.

[ConnerVT]

Maybe we should make up a "tip sheet" for these interviews? Much like teachers in the USA who "teach to the test?"

It's not really difficult.  Be honest, discuss the strong relationship that you both have developed that leads you to marry one another, and how you plan to build that future together.

If you need a Sylvan course to pass the test, time to re-evaluate.

[jb]

Voyageur wrote;

And the real point of my thread, is (IMHO) it that it is not the State Department's perogative to make judgement calls on a relationship on a K1 visa with parameters that are not clearly stated. If it is a clear requirement to know English, it should be stated, not subject to interpretation by some CO that has a higher or lower standard than their collegues.

Then you are misinformed as to the role and function of the State Department WRT issuance of visas.  It is clearly the role and perogative of the State Department of make these judgement calls on who gets, and who doesn't get a visa.  That's their job.

It is not within the States Department's purview to tell you whom you can, or cannot, marry, but they get to decide who gets a visa to legally enter the USA, married, engaged, or not.  Just because you made a trip or two, met a girl who strikes your fancy, filed a I-129F, got that approved, complied with the letter of all the laws, etc., does not guarantee she will get a visa.  

The fact that one Consular Officer may be eaiser to deal with than another, or he may know the answers to the names of state capitals, is completely beside the point, he is doing a job he is trained and qualified to do.  If he wasn't qualified to do this task, he wouldn't be there.

Guys should get this through their heads, it's all a crap shoot when you attempt to sponsor a foreign national into the USA.  Other countries may be different, but it ain't automatic when getting a visa to come to America.  Not just everyone is welcome.

[Bruce]

Voyageur its great you started this thread.  Guys whose fiance's are going to the K-1 interview will do their darndest to make sure their girls are as prepared as possible.  I wrote every question my wife was asked way back when either here or on PL and was suprised at the amount of questions she had because other guys fiances had alot less.  The thing that we have to remember is that we are in the process of finding or have brought a wife from Russia into the United States.  The reality is that alot of people in the USA just do not like it.  The process is tough every step of the way.  It is easy for guys to get frustrated. 

What really is bothersome to good hard working US citizens like myself is what we are going through, the trash that we see getting let into this country and all the obvious illegals that our tax dollars are footing the bill for.  Think of all the pregnant Mexicans who jump over the border every day just to have their baby in our country that we are paying for.  Think of all the illegals flooding our hospitals that we are footing the bills for.  It just makes me sick that hard working honorable, tax paying, many former military and government working personnel and professionals have their country basically spit in their face when they seek to bring a fiance who they want to marry; who they sign on the dotted line and vouch for into our country.

Something seriously is rotten with "the process" for US citizens to bring a fiance into our country from Russia, and we really need to figure out a way to do something about it.