Turboguy's K1 Ordeal

[wxman]

The problem is not that these CO's are not qualified, because they have been trained and do know all the rules. The problem is that these interviews are subjective to the whims of each CO. I would bet that every K1 visa, in fact every visa,  could be denied on some technicality, that is built into the system. Some CO's are more lenient than others, but are just as qualified. So it comes down to what one CO may see as a problem, while another CO does not see it as a problem.  I'm sure when Turboguy appeals, most likely it will be reversed. They did keep her passport, which tells me they probably do not intend to deny, as they would have stamped it denied and gave it back to her on the spot if the CO really had a valid reason. So it sounds like the CO could not really find a good reason to deny, but instead is testing to see if they will appeal. They likely will wait for the appeal, and then grant visa. It's a game they play, but they need to realize these are people, whom they are now putting through a lot of stress.

Now the fact that on the embassy web sites it says interviews can be conducted in English or Russian, at the choice of the one being interviewed should at least be followed by the CO. When the CO states it will be done in English, he/she is overstepping their powers.  How many other immigrants do they allow in this country that can not speak English? That does not mean that the couple can not communicate. Do they even try and find out if the man can speak Russian? If the man can speak enough Russian, then there is no problem with communication. To arbitarily deny visa because the fiance can not speak english, without knowing if the man can speak her language is wrong.  

[Bruce]

If I remember correctly, when my wife was interviewed in Moscow last August the interviewer said hello / perfunctory greetings in Russian and then asked my wife if she would like the interview to be conducted in Russian or English.  My wife said English and they had their chat etc.  The reality is that without knowing the particulars in Turboguys's case we are all speculating.  It just makes me upset that a guy from Beaver Falls, PA; clearly a born and bred American, who was so sure that his paperwork was in order and that his relationship was great that he already bought a plane ticket for his fiance and went to Russia to accompany his fiance back home with him - got an initial denial (which will probably get corrected, but after he is back in the US); it just makes me sick!

[RacerX]

It is clearly the role and perogative [sic] of the State Department of make these judgement [sic] calls on who gets, and who doesn't get a visa.  That's their job.

no debate about this, but the USCIS has informed the DOS that they are not to second guess the I-129f process but are merely there to determine if the sponsored foreign national is real and that the police report/medical are complete.  In the future, it is quite possible that overseas USCIS offices will additionally take over this function.

The English requirement is certainly a new twist: I wonder if anyone has any concrete documentation about it??

None of us can second-guess what Turbo's fiancee might have been asked, but we don't want to make his/her experience into an urban myth without knowing more.  

I think jb and others have hit on the essence of why an interview might turn south:  the CO asks a few very innocent questions and draws a blank look from the girl....he then probes a bit more and she can't answer some of the questions they consider critical - like was your fiance married before and how many times, or does he have children (how many, what are their names?).  

Many of us, me included, were at the interview and were asked absolutely nothing of consequence, while others were grilled... why?  Those of you who know your relationship is solid (you have met your future wife more than one time!!) will have nothing to fear.  The CO's seem to have a feel for this kind of thing.  A borderline relationship is pretty easy to spot: while my fiancee and me were waiting for our interview we speculated which of the girls that went ahead of us might have trouble - I think we guessed correctly every time.

The fact they kept his fiancee's passport is a very good sign - it almost always means they will look over everything again and issue the visa shortly.

[Voyageur]

Bruce,

Your feelings are mine, exactly. In both of your posts. I am a typical American that is outraged at footing the bill for all types of illegal immigrants among us. Yet, when a conscientious citizen like T/G decides whom he wants have as a wife, some CO has the power to change everything. And yes, I agree he may be trained but he may not be fair. I am sure that if T/G got any other CO, his results would have been different. This same CO failed four out of five interviewees recently, when no other officer failed any other candidates. That day.  Maybe he had good reason, maybe not. I agree to abide by the laws of my country, but when a seemingly mean-spirited CO can deny a man the right to bring his intended bride into his country - after passing the reasonable litmus test (on the website and in the instructions given to the fiancee) of all the required documentation of a real relationship - this is wrong, just IMHO.

[andrewfi]

We do not know the ins and outs of the case. Frankly, neither does Turboguy. Does he know how many K1s she has had before? Does he know about her sisters, or mother who overstayed a visa in the past? Does he know about her criminal record?

He knows none of these things, but they all are likely to have effect upon the outcome of a via application.

Perhaps the darkskinned dude doing the interviews is the guy who deals with all the 'hard cases'. For sure, from what we know, Turboguy would be falling into a high risk category as a bride importer. Language, age differences and previous marriages would all tend to increase the risk of an interviewer thinking something amiss, notwithstanding any issues with his girlfriend.

It seems to me that the interview in part is to decide whether the guy, who is not interviewed, is a suitable person to bring in the person being interviewed. Given what we know of Turboguy and his girlfriend, honestly, what would you think, if you were the interviewer and you had read the case file, knowing the likely outcome of such a relationship?

[BC]

There's probably nothing to get upset about. As I understand it the CO asked for some more support. There could be a number of kinks we don't even know about so maybe lets just kick back and see what happens.

The only thing I disagree with is that (as I understand it)there is very little recourse beyond appealing with US immigration authorities.  Here a judge can overturn a visa denial if necessary and immigration authorities must issue a visa.  Also if immigration has not acted authorized or denied a visa within 180 days all the applicant has to do is take the receipt showing the application date to the consulate and they must automatically issue the visa.

[Bruno]

It seems to me that the interview in part is to decide whether the guy, who is not interviewed, is a suitable person to bring in the person being interviewed. Given what we know of Turboguy and his girlfriend, honestly, what would you think, if you were the interviewer and you had read the case file, knowing the likely outcome of such a relationship?

Who can judge if someone is a suitable person for marriage... how can you gamble on the misluck in future of such relation...

Of course, Turboguy have not choose the easy way by selecting a young babe... but it is his choice, and he love his young girlfriend... yes, he have know some previous misluck... but it is maybe the reason he have search a foreign woman... several man who start a quest for a foreign woman are already divorced...

I don't know for USA but here in Belgium, the divorce rate of marriage is more high for local couple that for mixed couple... foreign marriage is already enough difficult without add other problem...

Maybe so control is more needed in case of local marriage, this can maybe allow to lower the divorce rate in USA... some here can speak about the hell they have life with dating local woman and/or divorce...

The CO is not here for judge the future of a relation, he need evidence that people know each other... how someone can judge the futur of a relation... do they use some verity serum for know the true of the mutual feeling... Administration is needed for control fact and evidence, not for imagine how can be the relation in futur... Why not see if by horoscope, they are compatible...

Some poster here are married with woman very younger... i am sure that they have know so remarks like you have make that they have a low chance of success... but since they are always married, it seem to be not true... show me real statistic who show that people with a large gaps of age have a more high divorce rate that other...

Now, about difference of age, some interesting link :

- Age differences at marriage : The times they are achanging?

http://www.ssb.no/english/magazine/art-2005-01-31-01-en.html

- Age differences at marriage, new jersey, 2001 : table md5

http://www.state.nj.us/health/chs/stats01/marr01.pdf#table5

Interesting to see that the age gap is more high in case a second marriage ( second link )... and that the age gap rise with foreign marriage ( first link )...

More funny : Your Real Chance of Divorce at http://www.divorcereform.org/real.html ...

And at least for information :

The Top Ten Myths of Divorce : http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/pubtoptenmyths.htm

The Top Ten Myths of Marriage : http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/pubmyths%20of%20marriage.htm

[BC]

Lets not start another age thread here though..

My guess is that the age difference and language did have an impact on this initial decision.  We all know the greater the difference the greater the risk. Sure the CO cannot and probably was not judging the survivability of marriage.. that's not his job. He was probably looking at the same risks from the 'mule' angle and would have felt more comfortable making a decision with more backup.

Maybe those showing up for interviews with large age differences and/or other factors that may seem a bit 'unusual' should have more than the minimum backup requested to justify the intent of the visa request..  How about a statement from the local church setting the date of the wedding, receipt for the huge engagement ring she's wearing, catering quotations, honeymoon reservations. Heck I would have even bought the wedding dress and rings already to have some tangible receipts to justify the purpose of the visa request.

The question I would probably ask as CO is "what date have you set to get married?".. a nervous 'I dunno..' response would surely be enough set off all the bells and whistles.

I wouldn't think emails in whatever amounts have much 'pull' with CO's. A GCG/Mule relationship certainly could produce large amounts of emails.

As discussed in another thread long ago, the interview is probably not much different than an employment interview/review. The basic facts are already known and the interview purpose is to get a 'feel' for the persons and qualities involved.

[jb]

RacerX wrote:

In the future, it is quite possible that overseas USCIS offices will additionally take over this function.

Do you know something that even the CIS officers don't? (BTW, that's what they like to be called, Customs and Immigration Officers)  According to my CIS friends, neither the USBCIS, nor any of it's predecessor agencies, all the way back to when it was known as the "INS", has never had, or will have, an office overseas.  In other words, they don't travel outside the USA, and there are no plans to merge Homeland Security with the State Department.

[BC]

jb,

On my last flight back to the US on Lufthansa (last October from Frankfurt) there there was a last passport check after checkin and before actual boarding.  I could have sworn they were Americans acting in some official US government capacity. If I remember they had on some kind of blue uniforms. Any idea who they were?

[Bruno]

A little more info :
 

Hello Everyone,

I just got an e-mail from Iveta. This is what she said what happened to Luda. (turbo's gal)

I'd like to say a few words why Luda did not get her
visa. I think you don't know that she doesn't speak
English and I think she mustn't agree to have the
interview in English, she should have insisted on
speaking Russian. She was hesitated answering the
questions. She was not sure in herself. I was in
during her interview and I can judge. I'm sad about
them.
During my interview they asked me how long we had
been in pen-writing, when and were we had met, your
home address, city, the state. They asked about my
feelings to you, if I loved you or not. I was sure
in my answers, I spoke clear and my interview was a
success.

This is why I told her to request her interview in Russian. She can speak Very limited English. I feel bad about what happened to Luda. My congressman's office called me today to see how Iveta's interview went. As it says in my timeline I had to bring them in. She wants to know what the name of this ####### interviewer is...So if anyone knows please tell me and I will pass it on to them.

Steve

 
It seem that the gal of turbo have make the interview in English, that she have not ask or insist to make it in Russian... Since she don't know good english, she was hesitating... maybe the reason the CO have ask complement of information...
 
And about the problem with flight ticket, the ambassy site recommend not buy flight ticket before receive the visa... if you don't follow the advice of Ambassy, it is at your own risk...
 
Turboguy was maybe good ready but it seen that his girlfriend was not so much good ready...

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ I was not suggesting that the interviewer was making judgements in respect of the suitability of the marriage, but for the likelihood that it was a genuine relationship, for both parties and that the purpose was not simply for a girl to import herself to the US. It is the job of the interviewer to gauge the degree to which the application for any particular class of visa is a genuine one. The interviewer also has access to data about his girlfriend that Turboguy does not.

In those terms, a person who is claiming a relationship but can not communicate, does not know the address to which they are going and where there is a very large age difference woud suggest to the canny interviewer that something was amiss. They have access to the data in respect of visa applications, overstays, unfullfilled k1s etc and they know who the 'risk groups' are. If Turboguy and his young bride did not fit into a risk group then nobody would.

If the relationship is genuine, then I am sure they will be able to demonstrate it and all wil be well.

[Photo Guy]

The relatively short K-1 interview is an example of 'thin slicing' in action, when the CO is subconsciously and consciously analyzing all of the information in front of him or her in a very short time period.  After hundreds of these short interviews, I would imagine that most interviewers can detect something wrong, or something out of the ordinary, which can raise red flags. It sounds like Luda made a big mistake by not insisting on an interview conducted in Russian. Not only could this have created a major communication problem, but I can only imagine how it upset her confidence level and body language. -She was probably much more nervous than most applicants and that made the CO probe deeper and with more caution.     I really hope this turns out okay for them.

I do not understand our visa and immigration policies. Someone can sneak across our border and get a job and a driver's license immediately, but if you want to come here from, say, Bulgaria or England, you have to jump through many hoops.

[RacerX]

In the future, it is quite possible that overseas USCIS offices will additionally take over this function.

Do you know something that even the CIS officers don't? (BTW, that's what they like to be called, Customs and Immigration Officers)  According to my CIS friends, neither the USBCIS, nor any of it's predecessor agencies, all the way back to when it was known as the "INS", has never had, or will have, an office overseas.  In other words, they don't travel outside the USA, and there are no plans to merge Homeland Security with the State Department. [/quote]

Ahh, jb, that's where a little information is sometimes dangerous

The USCIS has had overseas offices for many years - for example see: http://uscis.gov/graphics/fieldoffices/worldmap.htm and they are well positioned to assume the visa duties of the DOS agencies (normally the consulates). There is no plan to merge the two, very distinctive branches of the US gov.

The reason that the DHS wants to take over the visa process is two-fold: (1) the emphasis has shifted from trying to cull the infrequent green card girl to security - all of the 911 terrorists were given visas with little problem, and (2) the admin processing of visas and the examination of the supportive data (for example: police reports/medical exams) is simply a extension of the I-129f/I-130 process.  This info could easily made part of the original submission.

When you give it some thought, it makes a lot more sense for the immigration people, the USCIS, to issue visas rather than an embassy, who's function is totally unrelated to this process.

[RacerX]

BTW, and this is in NO way reflective of whatever turbo's g/f may or may not have experienced... but I always thought what the consulate should do is issue a 90-day marriage license along with the visa!

[jb]

90-day marriage license

???

LOL LOL, would that be similar to the weekend marriages we used to get from a friendly bartender at closing time? :D

[RacerX]

Actually, I was trying to be serious here

What I meant is, if the consulate required each couple to prepare for an immediate marriage, I think you would find the "level of preparation" would be quite different.  The idea that you had so-and-so many Emails or had called your fiancee x-number of times would seem a little silly if you knew within days the two of you would be married.

As you eluded above, many couples view the K-1 as some kind of trial period, when in essence a smart couple knows they need to marry quickly and get on with the AOS.  Without elaborating on the detail (SSN, driver's license,etc.) it is vital the marriage/AOS process begins well within the alloted 90-day period.

[BC]

Freudian slip?..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=435&forum_id=7&jump_to=7608#p7608

[wxman]

jb,

On my last flight back to the US on Lufthansa (last October from Frankfurt) there there was a last passport check after checkin and before actual boarding. I could have sworn they were Americans acting in some official US government capacity. If I remember they had on some kind of blue uniforms. Any idea who they were?

 

They have the same people in Amsterdam. Since 9/11 all airlines entering US from overseas must conduct an additional security checks of all passengers. I asked the guy if he was American as his english was very good. He said he was Dutch but worked for the airline. They had about 8 or 9 of these people checking everyone and asking several questions to each person.

[Bruno]

Freudian slip?..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=435&forum_id=7&jump_to=7608#p7608

Whowww.... BC, do you really think that she have volontary miss the interview... you are good Sherlock ... it is a other possibility...

 

[BC]

Bruno,

I think the only one that could answer your question is Turbo.

When this thread started, the older thread popped up in my mind and it took a little time to find it.

I think these difficulties will really test their relationship. Who knows.. maybe this was the point.

 

[wxman]

I thought turboguy went with her to interview.

[Photo Guy]

BC,
Wow, if she actually did NOT DESIRE to come to the US,  AND they even discussed the idea of living in Russia... Yikes.
Technically that is not a Freudian slip, but  ...maybe worse. Could be a 'fateful' remark.

[BC]

Photo,

I always hear that 'f' word and wonder..

It's sort of like reading your hororscope in the morning that says you will have a bad day.. If you believe it you will.

[Photo Guy]

Yeah, I believe our present thoughts do affect the future. 'L' and I are supreme optimists. It helps to be resilient.