Immigration process will continue to be backlogged

[wxman]

What a mess!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080209/ap_on_go_pr_wh/immigration_backlogs

[55North]

The corresponding fees in the UK are about 2 - 4 times as much (or 10 times those in France).  It's obviously meant to be self-financing.  But the outcome is creeping elitism as the costs can only be afforded by the better off.

A conundrum.
 

[Son of Clyde]

Why do WE have to pay to help finance USCIS?
The government has a twisted logic.
They spend more on a senseless war that helping legal immigrants stay in our country.
What about the immigrants who came here on their own (without a K1 or K2 visa) to work? Some of them are working minimum wage jobs in NYC. How can anyone making $7.25 an hour afford these fees?

[BillyB]

What about the immigrants who came here on their own (without a K1 or K2 visa) to work?

According to the article wxman posted, they won't get government help. The majority of citizens/voters want their taxpayers money into getting rid of illegals so that's what the government is trying to do to show they are listening...somewhat. Although the current efforts will not solve the problem of illegals without spending insane amounts of money. Visit your local Congressman's and Senator's websites and write them your thoughts on helping immigrants who want to come here legally but you're going against millions of others who want the government to focus on illegals.

[Son of Clyde]

If you were to visit Brighton Beach you would see thousands of Russian people.
I feel very sorry for them knowing what is happening.
This is not the richest community in NYC either.
I am sometimes ashamed to admit I work for the federal government.

[Ronnie]

Gee, I wonder what would have happened if the pro-amnesty folks (Bush, McCain, Kennedy, Obama, Clinton, et. al.) had gotten their way and offered Z visas to 12+ million illegals?  Visas that the bill required to be issued within 24 hours of application whether of not FBI background checks were completed. 

Let's be clear.   People who enter the US without permission or who overstay their visas are not immigrants.  Immigrants are people who knock on the door and are allowed in properly.  Not those who climb over the back wall.

[BillyB]

I am sometimes ashamed to admit I work for the federal government.

Clyde there's got to be some kind of support group out there to get the help you need for government employees. 

Ronnie, here's an immigration thread that had some interesting opinions. I actually support amnesty like most politicians. I think I know what their "good" reasons are for amnesty. You can read why here. http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5233.0

[Ronnie]

Billy,
With all due respect...your support of amnesty is misguided.  You have made several incorrect assumptions and overlooked some glaring facts.

1. You talk about hard-working ag workers.  I agree they work hard, I too have worked along side them in California's peach orchards.  But the US already has in place an legal ag worker program with no cap as to the number of workers.  The problem is it's so easy to cross our borders and work illegally that both the workers and the growers choose to disregard the law.  BTW ag workers represent less than 3% of the illegal population.

2. If you were to have someone living next to your daughter who came from another country, would you prefer they had their backgrounds checked, medical exams done and went through legal procedures and we granted admission the US, or would you be okay if they arrived here illegally, purchased fake documents and even used an assumed name. Some illegals are hiding from prosecution back home.

3.  You say that illegals contribute to our economy.  Not according to an extensive study done by the Heritage Foundation.  The goods and services required by all residents comes at considerable cost...a cost that is not covered by whatever taxes a low income person pays.  Unless illegals are high income earners then it cannot be said they contribute more than they use. 

4.  The point of the current stimulus package is to give folks money so they will spend it in our economy.  Many illegals are here not to spend the money they earn but to take it straight down to western union and send it to family in their home country.  That is a drain our a economic health as a country.  More than $20 Billion went out just to Mexico alone last year.  More dollars sent abroad weakens the value of the dollar.  I recently returned from Europe...what were bargains 5 years ago are now terribly expensive in dollar terms.

5.  The US does not need more workers, neither skilled or unskilled.  Bill Gates and others captains of American industry want to be able to freely import labor...labor that works for less than citizens.  Labor shortage?  According to BLS, there are nearly 100 million working-aged (16-65) people in the US who are either not working or working fewer hours than they would like.  Last week a co-odinator at the Workforce Development office told me that here in Riverside county, California, there are between 100 to 1000 applicants for every decent paying job that comes up. The official unemployment figures are rising but are only the tip of the iceberg of the untapped labor we already have. Further, driving down the cost of labor in the US, which is the goal of many politicians and the Chamber of Commerce, overlooks the fact that medium and high wage earners constitute our middle class and make the US the market to which every corporation in the world seeks to sell its goods and services.  Wal-Mart is just now discovering that the jobs of their suppliers they forced to go to China were also the jobs of their customers who now are buying less in their stores.  Americans have trillions of dollars of credit card debt and now their home equity is evaporating.
America needs wages to rise faster than costs to remain strong and to keep a middle class (and the American Dream) from dying.

6. The United States, Europe and all countries have a carrying capacity.  The US is rapidly reaching hers.  Our infrastructure is crumbling from overuse while funds are diverted to social services and runaway entitlements.

7. Amnesty rewards bad behavior and attracts more people who do not respect laws. 

I find so few people who favor amnesty for illegals.  There are really no good and valid arguments to support it.   It is based on mis-used statistics and quaint notions and those who favor it often have self-interests that are counter to those of the population in general. 

[BillyB]

I find so few people who favor amnesty for illegals.  There are really no good and valid arguments to support it.   It is based on mis-used statistics and quaint notions and those who favor it often have self-interests that are counter to those of the population in general. 

Ronnie, I too find FEW people, both Democrats and Republicans, who support amnesty. The people at the highest levels of government have access to the best studies out there and the argument in favor of amnesty is the better than other alternatives when it comes to cost and drain on our economy. It's our politicians job to do what's best for the nation...even if the public doesn't want to hear it. The only politicians that are voting what the people want when it comes to illegal immigration are the ones on the hot seat and want to keep their jobs. Lot's of citizens want to save the environment but when it came to the Kyoto treaty, our Senators voted against it 100-0 because it would drain the economy and strength of this nation. It's not that they aren't listening to the voters, they have to look out for this nation's best interest, not just personal interest which could easily be protecting their jobs and doing what the public wants. I try to vote for the guys with the most wisdom, not the average guy who always does what the average voter wants based on polls of public opinion.

 Whomever is the new President, they won't tackle the hot topic amnesty until their second term like Bush did and when they do bring it up, if amnesty isn't part of the new immigration law package, it will be put off yet again, guaranteed. It's expensive to catch a few terrorists in Iraq which is the size of Texas. Just think of the cost, time, and chance of success to catch the same amount of people as the Iraqi population in an area the size of the United States? Those that do get deported have nothing back home and nothing to lose and will still keep coming back no matter how high the fence is creating a never ending cycle just as we already know it.

[Ronnie]

You're making the same old tired false argument that it's expensive to catch illegals.  Nobody argues that.  If employers are forced to used everify, the illegals won't be able to get jobs and without jobs most will return home.  More importantly, the word is out that it's to tough to get a job as an illegal and the flow will reverse itself.

[Jet]

Why do WE have to pay to help finance USCIS?
The government has a twisted logic.
They spend more on a senseless war that helping legal immigrants stay in our country.
What about the immigrants who came here on their own (without a K1 or K2 visa) to work? Some of them are working minimum wage jobs in NYC. How can anyone making $7.25 an hour afford these fees?

The idea is the same as the idea to have you file an affidavit of support, they want to try to ensure that those coming here are not a drain on taxpayers wallets. The problem is that rather than investing all the revenue in streamlining the process, they are diverting the funds to other projects - same as SS. IMHO the gov't does not want immigrants that make $7.25/hr and the best way to keep them out is to increase the fees to the point that they can't afford them.

[BillyB]

You're making the same old tired false argument that it's expensive to catch illegals.  Nobody argues that.  If employers are forced to used everify, the illegals won't be able to get jobs and without jobs most will return home.  More importantly, the word is out that it's to tough to get a job as an illegal and the flow will reverse itself.

Ronnie, what's the cost for a task that will never be successful? Who's going to pay for it? I need some facts before telling our government to "just do it" so I don't get shocked when my taxes double.

Don't get angry with employers, we are not trained to enforce laws or experts at spotting fake documents/ID and can't get into trouble with law unless we hire illegals knowingly. I'm an employer and I have a legal Mexican who works for me. He says for $150, an illegal can get all the proper documents that an employer would need to verify that he's legally able to work. As the illegal immigrant works, an employer would take money out of his paycheck such as Social Security, Federal taxes, and medicare and send it to the government along with his identification that my be real, fake or belong to someone else. All that info in the company's hands is in the government's hands too and it's up to them to determine if  person working for a company is legit or not. Even identification with computer chips embedded can be duplicated. It's being done right now with people getting free satellite tv.

I know a lot of people are upset with illegals "breaking the law" but laws can be changed as easy as changing the speed limit. Anybody here willing to admit if you were having tough times and starving to death, you'd just die instead of stealing a tomato out of a garden or crossing a border to a better life? Given the same circumstances, there's little doubt in my mind nearly all people will be just like those illegal immigrants.

[Jet]

 

what's the cost for a task that will never be successful? Who's going to pay for it? I need some facts before telling our government to "just do it" so I don't get shocked when my taxes double.
Given the same circumstances, there's little doubt in my mind nearly all people will be just like those ______________.

Totally off topic, but what stunning parallels to my feelings on the Iraq quagmire

[Bruce]

The less I post my political opinions the better off the board is.  Just assume it was a far right wing opinionand leave it at that.  Ronne, agree with you and would add more!

[timothe]

I'll post for you, Bruce.  LOL!

My contention about illegal immigration is economic and it surprises me that there are not more working class people up in arms over the flood of illegal immigrants in our country today.  It's out of control.

If you removed the 12 to 20 million illegals, employers would be forced to pay higher wages for non-skilled laborers until you replaced that workforce.  The wage increases wouldn't stop at the lowest rungs because higher wages on the low end would also effect those in middle management positions, as they would be more inclined to leave their positions for more lucrative, non-skilled positions.  Call it trickle up wage increases, if you will.

Of course, the costs of goods and services would go up as well as employers would need to raise prices of their goods and services.  But the net gain would go to the employees in this case.  It would be better for lower income families than any tax cut or entitlement the government could give.

The other potential benefit of removing the illegals is that you could open immigration more broadly to the rest of the world.  The immigrant you would get from Eastern Europe or the Far East is more likely to speak English and to have a college education. 

By allowing illegal immigration to continue, we are trading our options to allow the best and the brightest into our country for those who have no education and no language skills.  Regardless of the costs, we should secure the border and round up those who came illegally and return them to their country.  But there are significant political reasons why we don't.  That's the long and the short of it. 

[Ronnie]

Ronnie, what's the cost for a task that will never be successful? Who's going to pay for it? I need some facts before telling our government to "just do it" so I don't get shocked when my taxes double.

Don't get angry with employers, we are not trained to enforce laws or experts at spotting fake documents/ID and can't get into trouble with law unless we hire illegals knowingly. I'm an employer and I have a legal Mexican who works for me. He says for $150, an illegal can get all the proper documents that an employer would need to verify that he's legally able to work. As the illegal immigrant works, an employer would take money out of his paycheck such as Social Security, Federal taxes, and medicare and send it to the government along with his identification that my be real, fake or belong to someone else. All that info in the company's hands is in the government's hands too and it's up to them to determine if  person working for a company is legit or not. Even identification with computer chips embedded can be duplicated. It's being done right now with people getting free satellite tv.

I know a lot of people are upset with illegals "breaking the law" but laws can be changed as easy as changing the speed limit. Anybody here willing to admit if you were having tough times and starving to death, you'd just die instead of stealing a tomato out of a garden or crossing a border to a better life? Given the same circumstances, there's little doubt in my mind nearly all people will be just like those illegal immigrants.

Hmmmm Billy,  I don't understand your argument.  You ask about the cost of a task that will never be successful.  What task?  As I said, rounding up and deporting is not on the table.  It's you setting up that straw man. 

What I said was the government needs to require the use of the E-Verify program instead of making it merely available.  Currently, you're right the law only requires that the employers has reason to believe the documents he is inspecting are valid.  How can that be enforced? It can't!  So employers skate over the law...actually the business community drafted the law the way it's written now and they drafted the McCain-Kennedy bill behind closed doors.

However, if employers were required to simply punch in the SS# into the website and see if it matches the applicant's name and age, the the employer may hire.  If not, he can't hire.  Simple and no cost.  But powerful in that a person using a false social security number would not be able to get a job.  No job, no reason to stay or come here in the first place. 

Currently illegals cost taxpayers plenty so I find no substance in your cost argument.

No, not in the second year, third or fourth year will an Amnesty bill see the light of day.  Especially now that we are headed for a serious recession.

Amnesty will not happen.  The American people are wise to the scam.  When you say politician want it because it's good for the country and naturally politicians are wiser and know better what good for us than we do, right?  Sorry, people are paying attention to politics like never before. 

Thanks to the blogosphere, talk radio, and cspan, it's no longer possible to conduct scams on America as in the past. 

Anyone can join www.numbersusa.com and send free faxes to politician on issues that concern the problems of overpopulation and illegal immigration.

Further Bill I find your argument offensive that anyone of us would break the law too if we were hungry.  Again you place a false choice before us.  Starve to death or break the law.  What, no middle ground Bill?

[Phil dAmore]

Looks like they are just going to issue 47,000 green cards before the normal process is completed... Yeah, that'll cut down on the backlog.

I'd be curious to know exactly which immigrant group is going to receive most of those expedited cards... because you know, a woman from the FSU is obviously a greater threat to U.S. security than say, a young man from Pakistan.   /sarcasm

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5533508.html

[BillyB]

What I said was the government needs to require the use of the E-Verify program instead of making it merely available. 

if employers were required to simply punch in the SS# into the website and see if it matches the applicant's name and age, the the employer may hire.  If not, he can't hire.  Simple and no cost.  But powerful in that a person using a false social security number would not be able to get a job. 

Ronnie, employers already send tax money out of the employee's paycheck BASED on their SS# to the government. Who ever is inputing the SS# into the system on the government's side can do the verification. Heck, the SS# an illegal is using could actually be real and going to another person's benefit.

When I was a teenager in Washington State, I went to the farms and mostly Mexicans and some Asians were working there. Bending over all day in the hot sun picking strawberries or climbing a tree all day with a 5 gallon bucket picking apples is hard work. I saw no Caucasion people doing that work in the mid to late 80's. I'm sure a few are out there but not on the farms I worked at. It would be easy for the government to go to farms and collect illegals wholesale but the last time someone messed with our agriculture on a large scale, it was mother nature and we entered into the Great Depression.

The next immigration bill that comes along will not be passed unless amnesty is included. You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and guess which will come first? The majority of Americans will not get their way when it comes to solving illegal immigration.

[Lit_1nce]

I've always though it might be a good idea to bill the country of origin for the cost of returning their citizen. This would provide an incentive for the border patrol on both sides.

[wxman]

I've always though it might be a good idea to bill the country of origin for the cost of returning their citizen. This would provide an incentive for the border patrol on both sides.

I agree and one step further. The country of origin should also pay all costs for housing any of their citizens when convicted of a crime in a country they are not a citizen or legal immigrant. Might as well add any medical costs too.

[Misha]

I agree and one step further. The country of origin should also pay all costs for housing any of their citizens when convicted of a crime in a country they are not a citizen or legal immigrant. Might as well add any medical costs too.

That only works for those illegal immigrants that crossed the border (i.e. Mexico for the most part). What do you do with those illegal immigrants that simply overstayed their visa? Should the Russian police, for example, be scouring the United States for illegal immigrants?

[Ronnie]

Guys, Deportation is not the answer, so it's moot as to who pays.  Denying illegal aliens jobs will cause them to voluntarily return home.  About 300,000 did just that last year.  These are not people to yearn to live free.  We have less freedom (more laws restricting behavior) in the US than in most other countries.  Nor are these soul homeless and starving (sorry Bill, but a starving person can't possibly travel the United States).  They come for money.  Money they can get by working at American jobs.  No job, no money.  No money, no reason to be anywhere else but home.  If they want to contribute, let them build their own economies and stay in the home lands in the process.   The impact they have here is to flood the labor pool and draw down wages for everyone while increasing costs of housing and local governmental services.

Bill, We just seem to be talking right past each other.  I'm struggling to get you to listen..probably my fault  
I'll repeat - Ag workers represent 2-3 percent of the illegal population.  There is already a guest worker program for them - the H2-A visa.  A bill that would have given illega ag workers amnesty was shot down last fall...because all it was designed to do was give them permanent legal status and get them onto the voting rolls.  

As to those whose fake social Security number matches a legit person.  Maybe you'd like to get a letter each year from the IRS saying you underpaid your taxes like someone I know.  It's my client's wife, and when the illegal wages are added to his and his wife's income the withholding on the illegal's wages is far less than the added income tax the IRS demands.  The IRS has no interest or manpower to resolve the problem.

The Social Security Administration has been sending no "match letters" but the employers ignore them.  Now a new regulation has be promulgated that penalizes the employer if the discrepancy is not remedied within 90 days, but the open borders lobby (La Raza, CofC, Maldef., et.al.) has filed suit and gotten an Temporary Restraining Order.  Soon the order will be lifted and the letters will go out.  I predict the flow of illegals will slow dramatically and possibly even reverse itself which is imperative if we are to remain a sovereign country.

BTW, 66,000 Americans have been killed since the start of the Iraq war.  Not in Iraq, in America, by illegal aliens driving drunk and committing homocides.  That figures does not include rapes, robberies, child moletation, kidnapping and drug dealing.  We are losing a war on terror within our own borders.  I have sat in the gallery of a criminal court and watched nearly half the people called not be able to speak English and often not be able to tell the court which of their aliases is their true name.  We pay court intrepreters, by the way, about $35 for this wonderful benefit to our society.

When you say that no immigration bill will be passed unless it has amnesty you must have mispoken.  Of course, the opposite is true.  Bills have already been passed without amnesty and there are other enforcement and border security bills (sans amnesty) going through congress right now with little opposition.  The only opposition there is out there is to amnesty provisions.  Two smaller bill WITH amnesty we tried and shot down.  Ther American people for the first time in history are well organized and watching every move Congress makes on this issue.  No more immigration scams will be foisted by our politicians.

[BillyB]

Bill, We just seem to be talking right past each other.  I'm struggling to get you to listen..probably my fault  
I'll repeat - Ag workers represent 2-3 percent of the illegal population.  

CIS has illegal Ag workers at much higher than 2-3 percent. Of course there's all kinds of numbers out there on the internet to suit one's argument.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/labor.html

[Ronnie]

CIS has illegal Ag workers at much higher than 2-3 percent. Of course there's all kinds of numbers out there on the internet to suit one's argument.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/labor.html

No Billy.  The CIS article talks only about Mexicans.  It is not talking about ag workers as a percentage of ALL illegals.  What exactly is your agenda?  I'm perplexed.

[BillyB]

No Billy.  The CIS article talks only about Mexicans.  It is not talking about ag workers as a percentage of ALL illegals.  What exactly is your agenda?  I'm perplexed.

Ronnie, if you read past the title of the article and look at table/chart #2 you will see what percentage of illegal immigrants work in agriculture.