PreNups, Trusts, Offshore Accounts & Protecting yourself

[TigerPaws]

KenC,

 I am very sorry to hear what happened and you are a perfect example of why a man needs to shelter is assets. Ken you could have sheltered your house and your 401k as well as the rest of your assets if you would have consulted the proper legal counsel before getting married. I hope your example will spur other men inot looking into how to protect themselves otherise what happened to you could happen to others.

[tim 360]

Kevin C,

My condolances.  I have seen the same happen to a few men I know.  A couple cases were very sad.  People change.  The marriage one thinks is healthy is suddenly a bitter divorce.  Have a friend who got married 12 years ago to a very sweet girl.  Less than 3 kids and 7 years later they were divorced.  She had decided she did not love him anymore.  She and the kids have the big house etc and he has a very small apartment.  His previous lifestyle is gone in most ways.  Even now,  5 years later she will still find ways to inconveniece him by starting a court action for more $.  Last one the judge kicked out as frivilous.

Now mind you,  10 or 12 years ago I knew her as a very sweet 24 year old girl.  Over the last 3 years I have seen her socially a few times and...she is a completely different person.  I definitely think she has some psych problems,  not clinical,  she is quite functional.  Just consumed with bitterness.  Who'da thunk all this 12 years ago when their marriage was bright and cheery.  Nobody thought it would end like this.

Shielding a couple bucks,  usually a very good idea.  One has only to look at divorce rates here in the USA.  If ones holdings are significant then all the more the reason because no matter how starry-eyed one can be.  Marriage entails risk.  Some pay dearly.  "Course if you got nothin',  'ya got nothin' to lose."

Hard to do when the bulk of your assets were in your house, pension, and company 401K plan. I just lost half, and have a crushing child-support and alimony payment - taking virtually all the joy out of my life. I now work to make these payments, and to try and hold onto my house and car. Discretionary funds have basically dried up, with the exception that I'll continue to fund my quest for a new wife - otherwise there would be little left to live for. Having to sell assets to cover deficit monthly spending.

Oh, divorced an AW in Missouri and the judge used me to make a point to my lawyer ("Told you he should have settled...").

Kevin C.

[Frank]

Something else for all of you to think about;  my sister is a lawyer practicing family law.  I have heard lots of stories about men that think all of the money they make is their own and not the wifes also.  There are lots of divorced women out there who support the kids and live on next to nothing, while the ex-husband is living it up, not providing for their needs!  When you are married, what you make should also be that of your wife.  I would tell any RW to stay away from any man who will not let her participate 100% in all aspects of her husbands life. These RW are not business propositions or objects to buy.  Give them the respect, honor and trust they deserve.  If you can't, then stay away.  Don't be stingy.  If the roles were reversed, you would not like it.  Do to them as you would like them to do to you. 

Marriages were not designed to break up.  That is why it hurts financially and psychologically when they fail.  If you don't want the worst to happen, do all you can to be a good husband and choose a wife of good character, not just a good body.  Also, be of good character yourself.   

Incase you wonder; I do have lots to lose.  I will stick to my principles no matter what. 

 

[TigerPaws]

Frank,

 A nice thought but as Donna pointed out there are women "who will lie, use sex, and whatever to get their ass to America and then dump him well, not right away.. It would be too foolish. Dump him and then struggle for survival in US all alone? Nahhh.. Of cause they will dump him, but not before they get education, profession, start working, see the world (for his account of course), save some money and theeeennn...when the husband becomes older...

 A man needs to protect himself just like taking out health, auto and fire insurance against women like Donna describes because you just never know.

[Goombah]

You know, I have no qualms with giving my ex half of my 401k, and half of my pension and other assets - your right, those were built up while we were married so I'm OK with that.  I'm good with the $1600/month in child support, although she will never spend a fraction of that on them, that number is "supply side" based and infrequently not just taken from the table unless the case settles before the trial.  What burns me is the $2400/month of which she need, maybe $500, and no more than $1000 to live the lifestyle she choose over the one I offered her.  That presumes she goes to work full time and earns $18K/year.  Anything better and she would need less.  So... its the Alimony that really burns me.  She now has the money to do all the things I can no longer even think about, without having to get a full time job.

*sigh*

Kevin C.  (sorry to vent list)

[TigerPaws]

Frank,

 Principles are all well and good but when a dishonest woman takes you or someone else to the cleaners through a false DV charge then what good will your principles be?

[TigerPaws]

KenC,

 Please feel free to vent all you want because your case is the perfect example of why more men need to know how to protect themselves. Imagine how things would be today if you were the one not the courts deciding how much to spend on your children and not havng to pay any alimony? I do not want to minimize you case but with the proper protections it would have been possible.

[KenC]

Tigerpaws,

That was Kevin C not KenC.  But I hear ya anyway.  I think any man with sizable wealth is retarded not to have a prenupt.  My wife actually told me she would sign whatever I wanted from her because she want me and not my money.

KenC

[Dave_home]

 Yes a pre-nup is wide open for any stipulations the author wants in it, as long as the other party "agrees" to it...This becomes a legally-binding agreement....  this is law for that marriage!  In the case where the marriage goes wrong.... the husband could abuse, mistreat his wife in any fashion he wants and  in the divorce court  the judges power to award the wife a settlement commensurate with her level of suffering in the marriage is completely "Usurped!"  As you can see the pre-nup doesn't have to be fair.... it only has to be signed by both parties. Most women know about this and if you check with them... like Donna.... of course it offends them, but there are some women, (tiger found one) who don't mind, maybe they are comforted by some other aspect in the marriage,  not to mind being taken advantage of.  Let's all face it... the pre-nup protects the author the most, it is He/ she,  who brings it to the marriage table,  the other party looks at it and decides if they can  live with it or not   Dave

[Dave_home]

Yes let's all suck the love and trust right out of marriages, every guy should protect every penny against these "evil women" why should any guy "trust any woman"? after all, since we know no woman can be trusted in a marriage, I think a pre-nup should be mandatory. Why should we even call it a marriage? let's see..... why not call it:  "Co-habitation merger"?  we've been looking at this proposition all wrong all these years....we could have co-habitant fines from the courts when one party violates a co-habitant rule? why not? it's only smart business?  When a pre-decided number of violations are amassed by the wife (per the pre-nup) then there could be a co-habitant merger dissolution, with a small severance pay given to the departing co-habitant of course. :-)

[Dave_home]

 hahaha why do you think it was necessary for the courts to decide how much a father should spend in the first place?  because of fathers who did just what my example father did!

[tim 360]

Frank,  ain't nothing wrong with a couple good principles.  But those are your principles,  for you... and I do respect you for having some.  Mark Twain thought everyone should have a couple good ones.  Stories?  Plenty of stories out there in the Naked City...take your pick. Thats all cute.  Your sister?  Gimme a break.

"Marriages were not designed to breakup"?  Well,  M'boy ye needs to read alot more history and social/cultural anthropology.  Don't know just where you got that one from.  Marriage was just a tribal/cultural rite to ensure order within the tribal grouping set.  It was necessary for the early homo homo sapiens and neanderthals.  Most anthropolists agree that a coupling/bonding/marriage rite was prevelant in even earlier and more primative branches.  Like austrolipithicenes etc.   And in even more ancient strains.  But,  I'll not bore you further.

At any rate marriage was a cultural/social invention (the design of) of the,  shall we say,  cavemen,  to ensure order within the tribal grouping.  Didn't want no testerone overloaded cavemen jumpin' on all the women and girls.  And to a very large degree it worked.  In periods of history where divorce was blasphemy...outright murder worked just fine.

Now,  when I was a young man of 22 or 23,  I too brandished the very same principles and ideals which you hold so close to your breast.  Unfortunately,  by the very act of living and seeing and thinking we see too much which saddens both the mind and the heart and those principles once so lofty and sacred are only but the tattered ribbons on unfullfilled dreams and whimsies.

Good luck 'ta you.

 

Something else for all of you to think about;  my sister is a lawyer practicing family law.  I have heard lots of stories about men that think all of the money they make is their own and not the wifes also.  There are lots of divorced women out there who support the kids and live on next to nothing, while the ex-husband is living it up, not providing for their needs!  When you are married, what you make should also be that of your wife.  I would tell any RW to stay away from any man who will not let her participate 100% in all aspects of her husbands life. These RW are not business propositions or objects to buy.  Give them the respect, honor and trust they deserve.  If you can't, then stay away.  Don't be stingy.  If the roles were reversed, you would not like it.  Do to them as you would like them to do to you. 

Marriages were not designed to break up.  That is why it hurts financially and psychologically when they fail.  If you don't want the worst to happen, do all you can to be a good husband and choose a wife of good character, not just a good body.  Also, be of good character yourself.   

Incase you wonder; I do have lots to lose.  I will stick to my principles no matter what. 

 

[Goombah]

"I am very sorry to hear what happened and you are a perfect example of why a man needs to shelter is assets. Ken you could have sheltered your house and your 401k as well as the rest of your assets if you would have consulted the proper legal counsel before getting married. I hope your example will spur other men inot looking into how to protect themselves otherise what happened to you could happen to others."

I was married for 23 years, fresh out of school.  I didn't own a house, and had no clue what a 401K was (if they even existed back in 1981).  Legal council?  Hadn't a clue back then that I would ever amass the wealth that I have, ah, had.

Kevin

[Dave_home]

and business partners split even more frequently than divorces, paving the way for an even greater divorce rate. The pre-nup certainly allows for the possibility of the author to abuse any aspect of a marriage if only he can get his woman to "sign" then he's home free!  Oh, did I mention that I don't approve of Pre-nups in a marriage?   :-)  Dave

 

[TigerPaws]

Dave,

 Your approval or disapproval are not necessary, the purpose of this thread is to explore the possibilities a man has in order to protect himself from a preditory RW and to give reasonable information, if you do not like the thread then go elsewhere.

[Dave_home]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

" Marriage was just a tribal/cultural rite to ensure order within the tribal grouping set. 

At any rate marriage was a cultural/social invention (the design of) of the,  shall we say,  cavemen,  to ensure order within the tribal grouping. 

No Mr. Darwin marriage was NOT a cultural/social invention of any "tribes" sorry to burst your bubble, but marriage was invented by God, and He designed it NOT to fail.  I know you hold your fantasy in high regard, but remember even Darwin near the end of his life was very distraught over his writings about evolution,  he regreted being wrong about it, and  sought God's face before he died.  Darwin could not undo what he had done.  Dave
 

[TigerPaws]

Goonbah,

 When I was first married I also did not have very much but my father and grandfather rendered tme good counsel and assistance in getting a prenup before I was married and how to begin sheltering my assets as I aquired them.

[Dave_home]

I like the thread, but you are wrong, the purpose of this thread is to learn about all views on this subject  NOT to learn about the possiblities an man has to protect himself from a RW.    It is to exchange opinions here, and I suggest if YOU don't like it you know what to do?  I enjoy thoughtful debates and up till now you have been cordial, but you are getting close to crossing the line my friend. if you can remain civil , I'd like to read any constructive thoughts you have.    I wish you the best   Dave

[TigerPaws]

Let me make this perfectly clear Dave,

 I am not your friend so please do not refer to me as such.

 You are welcome to your opinion and have made that opinion very clear, if you would like to discuss the merrits of not having a prenup, protected trusts and offshore accounts so a man can protect himself from predatory RW's then you are more than welcome to start another thread on the subject of your beliefs.

[tim 360]

Davey Boy,

Thanks a bunch.  Now I can see much more clearly now.  Thanks for your erudite reply.  When bygosh, Jehossaphat,  did your GOD invent marriage?  Wwwwwhhhaaat year, pray tell?  Whats his name?  My total ignorance is embarrassing to say the least.   Ya know Davey boy...once I was blind,  now I can see.  Hey do ya know the song?  Can ya sing it?  Better yet Can ya sing, dance and read the bible at the same time and make a post?  [user=101]Dave_home[/user] wrote: 

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

" Marriage was just a tribal/cultural rite to ensure order within the tribal grouping set. 

At any rate marriage was a cultural/social invention (the design of) of the,  shall we say,  cavemen,  to ensure order within the tribal grouping. 

No Mr. Darwin marriage was NOT a cultural/social invention of any "tribes" sorry to burst your bubble, but marriage was invented by God, and He designed it NOT to fail.  I know you hold your fantasy in high regard, but remember even Darwin near the end of his life was very distraught over his writings about evolution,  he regreted being wrong about it, and  sought God's face before he died.  Darwin could not undo what he had done.  Dave
 

[Frank]

The way to take care of a predatory RW is to take the time to know her.  Spend time with her, her family and her friends. Don't rush through the relationship too quickly and get married.  At some point, try to set aside the fuzzy, warm feelings and look at the situation realistically.  Ask yourself why your RW wants to marry you.  Is she allot younger, better looking or what?  Do you even have anything in common?  Are you/her educated? Do you and her both want children?  To some extent, any time you trust anyone, it is a crap shoot.  But in a marriage, you have to trust.  The only way I know of being sure about a RW is to take things slowly.  A predatory woman will die of frustration and dump you if you take too long in courting her.  A genuine lady will be patient and wait.  The same goes for you.  If you are patient, that is an indicator you are genuine. 

It makes things easier in a relationship if the two people have things in common, such as religious beliefs or some other beliefs that promote family values.  People who have religious beliefs are not "wackos" as some would have you think.  The religious beliefs act as a framework or set of common values with which to build a relationship on.  That is good.

The main point is..........don't use a marriage to do your weeding.  The weeding needs to be done before your'e hitched!:D

[Frank]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

Davey Boy,

Thanks a bunch.  Now I can see much more clearly now.  Thanks for your erudite reply.  When bygosh, Jehossaphat,  did your GOD invent marriage?  Wwwwwhhhaaat year, pray tell?  Whats his name?  My total ignorance is embarrassing to say the least.   Ya know Davey boy...once I was blind,  now I can see.  Hey do ya know the song?  Can ya sing it?  Better yet Can ya sing, dance and read the bible at the same time and make a post?  [user=101]Dave_home[/user] wrote: 

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

" Marriage was just a tribal/cultural rite to ensure order within the tribal grouping set. 

At any rate marriage was a cultural/social invention (the design of) of the,  shall we say,  cavemen,  to ensure order within the tribal grouping. 

No Mr. Darwin marriage was NOT a cultural/social invention of any "tribes" sorry to burst your bubble, but marriage was invented by God, and He designed it NOT to fail.  I know you hold your fantasy in high regard, but remember even Darwin near the end of his life was very distraught over his writings about evolution,  he regreted being wrong about it, and  sought God's face before he died.  Darwin could not undo what he had done.  Dave
 

Hey tim 360,

Why don't you find some other place to spew your crap?  If someone doesn't believe as you, ignore them/respect them.  Please don't subject us to your anger, okay?  

[TigerPaws]

tim 360,

 I was wondering when someone would bring a deity into the discussion, please no everyone believes the same and some do not believe anything at all, please do not attempt to impose you beliefs or bring this discussion down by bringing up religion. If you want to discuss the various aspects of religion in the context of a lady ot wife from the FSU please start a thread about that.  

[tim 360]

Yo Frank,

No anger here,  a little laughter.  Like Mr. Tiger Paw said,  this thread is about Pre-Nups and financial considerations.  If ya got some religious views you should be posting them on a different thread.  Like just start a religious thread,  thats where it belongs.  Not this one. 

[anono]

ok..let's see, we got some guy claiming god "invented" marriage, we have religion. may as well bring politics into this.

i bet old dave_home (looking forRW) voted republican.