My story-the Ukrainian experience

[ronin308]

A couple of quick things, firstly while I don't mind responses, generalizations like all agencies are bad aren't interesting or productive.

My interest in Ukraine started last year about this time when a Ukrainian woman answered my personal ad.  She was very upfront that her objective was to come to America to improve her life and she wanted to marry an American man to do it.  However she indicated that she had to love the man to do it.  We exchanged emails regularly but I never felt a real spark.

I finally decided to visit there on vacation, the idea being it would be nice to go on a vacation where at a minimum I have a friend who speaks a little english.  A week before I left, the country was in the thick of the Orange Revolution.  A brief chat her and the company I arranged the apartment settles the nerves.

The flight over was a nightmare.  First the flight from LAX to DC was late and missed the connection, meaning I spent the night in DC.  Now one would think that given an extra day the airlines wouldn't have a problem getting my luggage to me.  Well that wasn't true, I get to Borispol, no luggage and it's the middle of winter. 

A quick phone call and we decided to meet near the monument at Independance Square.  When I get there the entire area is roped off and surrounded by a huge crowd.  I get lucky and we're able to find each other.

To make a long story all I got from the trip was some badly screwed up feet and a good appreciation of Ukrainian culture.  She wouldn't let me take her to a restaurant so I came back thinner, I spent over a day walking in Kiev in my nice shoes which wore some holes in my heels.  I bought some Ukrainian shoes since my luggage took a while to find me.

The second night she told me that she couldn't love me, but we remained and still are friends.  Being their during their Orange Revolution (I was there when the Supreme Court nullified the election results) was awesome and I really spent the time breathing in the electrified air.  Of course I couldn't say more than Da or Nyet but hey it was fun.

My interactions with this girl really lit a spark under me.  While we were only friends, there was something about the way she behaved that interested me far more than the American women I had dated or was friends with.  Her blunt honesty really sold me though, she knew that she probably could have convinced me to marry her, but since she wasn't attracted to me she didn't want to do it for just that reason.

This set the stage for my next phase.

[ronin308]

When I returned to the US I decided to actively look at Ukrainian women as possible wifes.  The one thing I realized is that I didn't have the time to spend there and search for the few women who would be open to marrying an American and coming back to the US so I felt an agency would provide a good way to narrow down the pool.

So after quickly eliminating most of the agencies I later found out to be scammers I found a small agency run by an American man and his ukrainian wife.  After some brief research I decide to embark on their recommended plan.  They had you pick 10 women which they would narrow down to 6 or so.  You'd then begin a letter writting campaign to the 6 with the idea that would be coming to visit sometime in the next 4-6 months.

I liked this idea and began writting my 6 women.  The information on their profiles was limited but I based my decision both on physical attraction as well as what they said.  In the end I ended up communicated with 2*21 y/os, 3 in their mid twenties and one the same age as myself (33). 

Now to begin with the agency did have a few of the flags in it's approach.  First all of your communications was through them and their translators.  There were a few other things that worried me, but I could also understand their point of view as well.  They also made the same recommendations about not sending money etc.  In all they seemed to have a good experience and looked out for both the ladies and the guys.

In my letter writing I had one girl stand out immediately, she had no problems expressing her emotions and feelings and I almost felt overwhelmed.  The others varried in responses but all expressed interest.  I watched all of them for what I believed are the typical scammer stuff but couldn't see any big flags.

I finally booked the trip, and got my stuff in order.  I let the agency know I was interested in meeting all of the women, assuming they would want to meet me.

 

[Patrick]

Hey nice report so far. I was there for both elections. Got to love that Orange Revolution. It did get kind of crazy, in a good kind of way..You think it was cold in November, try Jan and feb...Like it. Love it and want more of it...

[Erwin]

Patrick,

Are you owner/administrator of Planet-love.com?

E

[Patrick]

No , I am not . Thank you for asking. I am just a guy who lives in the Washington DC area and have traveled all over the world seeing" far away places with strange sounding names".

  I have been a member of the other board and just wanted to check out this site to see what was going on. I was told by a few friends that this was a good site and there were good people here. I am also in the last stage of a K-1 Visa with my lady from Western Ukraine. With luck she will  have her interview and be here in September or October..Cheers

[ronin308]

Thanks for the comments Patrick.  Yeah it wasn't super cold then, I've been through worse, but my problem was that all of my warm stuff was in the lost suitcase, last time I make that mistake.

Now back to our regularly continuing program 

So here I was writting these women and learning about them.  As I said most of them were fairly responsive and seemingly interested.   One of them wrote very short letters and applogized because she hated to write letters.  Needless to say she wasn't near the top of my list (which was a mistake)

After I arrived in country at the agency arranged apartment, which was a little less nice then the one I rented in Kiev but still livable for one of those "spoiled" americans everyone always complains about.   One thing I would say is that they were very controlling, basically they recommended I only go out with my translator or one of their people as escort.  As it turned out for a few reasons it wasn't a big deal. 

First my translator was with me pretty much from about 11 am until 9 pm and second the city was more of a driving city so trying to get around the area without speaking the language would be more challenging than my experience in Kiev.

So I get picked up the next morning and they explain their process for meeting the women.  Basically I was going to have 5 45 minute interviews and from that pick the one I was interested in the most for dinner that night, after each interview one of the office managers was going to talk to the woman and find out her impressions.  I was also informed that of the 6 women I was interested in I would be meeting only 3.  The other 2 were women that had seen my picture and were interested in meeting me.

The first one I met was the one that we had the really intimate email exchange.  While she was definately hotter than her posted pictures and we did have a spark, she was a little uncertain of things.  I would later find out she was a little put off by my skin condition and embarassed to ask about it, this after saying she loved how well we communicated.

The second one was one of the girls that had asked to meet me.  Another fairly good looking girl, she and I hit it off right away.  I tend to judge a conversation by the laughter and there was a lot of it.  We both seemed to have some common interests and such.

The third one was the letter writer who hated to write letters.  Once again she was light years better than her photos.  When we shook hands, she sort of held my hand in hers, very sweet.  We also hit it off immensly.  This is an example of where the impression you get of someone by writting letters is not the same as in person.  She instantly went from being last on my list to being near the top. 

The fourth one was a new girl to the agency.  I was put off a little by her looks, but it was her personality that really killed it, I can deal with a less attractive woman if she has a good spark in her.  The staff said I was the first man she met and she was a bit nervous, if so I'd like to think I was good practice for her.  Truthfully, it wasn't there, she was nice and could definately make someone happy, just not me.

So the 5 th and final one was like a treat.  The other girls I met were no more than 6 years younger than me, however this one was 12 years younger at 21.  When she walked in though I was a little befuddled with her choice in hair color.  It wasn't natural and ruined the fact that this girl could have been a model otherwise.  She also spoke excellent English as it was her major, all of the others needing a translator.  It's an interesting point that she sounded more german than slavic with her accent, I've seen this a few times in Ukraine and it always interests me.  We had a real good chat, but in the end we mutually decided there wasn't any interest.

Now I'm down to the wire, who do I pick?  It was a really hard decision between number 2 and number 3.  There was just something about number 2 though, I can't describe it but I was really pulled to her.

[ronin308]

Now that dinner arrangements have been made we race off to pick her up.  The drive to her building was interesting, I've never seen a dirt road leading to a 15 story apartment building.  In many ways this trip more so than my trip to Kiev would open my eyes to the economic disparity between Ukraine and the US.

So we have dinner at a nice outdoor restaurant.  One thing that was both good and bad is that the interpreter picked almost all of the restaraunts, with some input from my date.  I do feel that if I choosen something we would have gone with it, but since I'm the out of towner I decided to just follow the locals choice.

Dinner goes well.  We swap stories about past misadventures and she tells me of her troublesome brother.  We have lots of fun and then we drop her back at her place.

The next day it's back to the agency.  None of my other 3 choices are available so now I choose who to have lunch with.  Here's where I had a real choice and even to this day I kick myself a little bit.  Instead of going with girl 3 and exploring options, I decide to go with girl 2 again.

We go and pick her up from one of her jobs (she had 3 at the time) and eat at a nice outdoor restaurant near the city's main park.  Once again we get to know each other better and when we drop her off I progress to the good bye kiss.

Back at the agency girl number 3 has called for me.  This will be repeated everyday until I get engaged to girl number 2.  Of course at this point I am more interested in girl 2 so once again we meet for dinner. 

On the way I stop to get her some flowers (odd number of course).  The flowers make her eyes light up and set the mood for the evening.  More exploring our pasts and families etc. 

It has been said that if a FSU woman really likes you she will let you know with her kiss.  That night I discovered that I was really liked. 

At this point the agency started pushing for the engagement.  They felt it was the way to prove I was serious and allow her to get more time off to spend together.  I really didn't feel ready, but I decided to go ahead anyway.

That night we went to a real nice restaurant that had a private alcove in the back.  The proposal was made by me in russian (I had learned a little bit since my first trip) and the interepter wasn't there.  This was bad and good as she basically told me maybe.  I found out the next day that the maybe was because she had to ask her mother so it become a yes.

So now we're off and running, and I really mean this.  I've been told that on their wedding day the couple races around town taking pictures together.  Well that was what the next day was like, trying to get the photographic proof for the visa application.

I also had the pleasure of seeing Star Wars III in it's original russian version (don't tell them any different either).  Definately something interesting to do.  I also like the Ukrainian movie experience compared to ours.

The next step was to meet her mother.  Man was I nervous.  It's bad enough to meet a potential inlaw when you can understand them, but when you don't speak a common language it's worse.  Fortunately for me her mom has a similiar personality to her daughter and we got along very well.  

After meeting the mother unit we went out to the city park, rode the ferris wheel and did some walking and talking.

The next day was more stupid tourist tricks and last minute paperwork stuff as it was my last day.  Finally we had to say good bye and I think I was more teary than she was.

So here I am a one week wonder, still in shock and awe at the speed of things.   I would definately say that this agency is honest and straightforeward although they did try and pressure you..  Once thing I have had is a lot of assistance post trip and from their record I expect more as well.  It was a good way to go if you like having your hand held, but I found it isolating as well.

Now I know, the K-1 is really for people who are ready to marry and at the time we did this I wouldn't say that was true for either of us.  My thinking was that through letters and phone calls (once you get engaged not only do they make sure you get all the girl's contact info, they help set her up with email if she doesn't have it) I would be able to get a real handle on her, enough that I could make a good decision soon after she arrived.  I also planned on going back to visit at least once before the visa approval.

So before you judge me too harshly, my next installment in this trip report is going to be the 14 day trip I just got back from.  Of this trip we spent 2 days in Kiev and 10 days in Turkey together.  No agency or interpreter to get in the middle and I can tell you it's an eye opener.

[Bruno]

Good trip report... and it show some interesting thing ...

Now that dinner arrangements have been made we race off to pick her up.  The drive to her building was interesting, I've never seen a dirt road leading to a 15 story apartment building.  In many ways this trip more so than my trip to Kiev would open my eyes to the economic disparity between Ukraine and the US.

Some people clain to be specialist and know FSU... but really, few western people know really FSU... they stay in center of big city... where all is beautiful, where some people speak English, whe the street are in good state, where you have modern shop... usualy, they stay in confortable in chic hotel or good appartment...

These people don't know FSU, they know the image that the country show to tourist... for understand these people, you need try to life like then... of course, it is not easy, same for me, a man from the lower part of the middel class, i have miss a lot my Belgium confort... i go to little local market, to cafe where you find only FSU people ( i like the chess cafe ) , i go where FSU people go and try to know then... and usualy, these usual people seem very cold at the first contact but after some time ( and drink ) they show her true nature... very friendly...

It is not the economic disparity who have surprise me the more... it is how people help each other... when i have know a infractus some year ago in Belgium, other people have make nothing, they was walking around me... i have stay on the ground 30 minute until a bus driver have stop and call a ambulance... in Russia, Lipetsk, i was one time fall on the ground ( the street are in very bad state ) and it was directly several people for help me to stand-up... when you see how FSU people help each other, it is something who have disappear by us... so, i have find Ukrainian or Russian more "rich" that us... not at the financial side but at the spirit side... and i can give thousand example of the superiority of FSU people at these level...

At this point the agency started pushing for the engagement.  They felt it was the way to prove I was serious and allow her to get more time off to spend together.  I really didn't feel ready, but I decided to go ahead anyway.

Yek... was have to make the agency in this... a engagement is a personal choice... you make it when you feel yourself ready, not because someone push you...

So here I am a one week wonder, still in shock and awe at the speed of things.   I would definately say that this agency is honest and straightforeward although they did try and pressure you..  Once thing I have had is a lot of assistance post trip and from their record I expect more as well.  It was a good way to go if you like having your hand held, but I found it isolating as well.

One week wonder !!! You have meet a charming lady and make a engagement in the hurry... A little question : Have you be intimate with these lady before make the engagement ?... How can you know she is the right one in only one week ? ... Spare me the usual " i have feel it "... man feel what woman will or wish show ... i have a misluck marriage and a misluck relation based on these feeling... build relation in so short time is a dangerous game...

Now I know, the K-1 is really for people who are ready to marry and at the time we did this I wouldn't say that was true for either of us.  My thinking was that through letters and phone calls (once you get engaged not only do they make sure you get all the girl's contact info, they help set her up with email if she doesn't have it) I would be able to get a real handle on her, enough that I could make a good decision soon after she arrived.  I also planned on going back to visit at least once before the visa approval.

Right, K1 is not a try periode... and use it for test a lady is enough egoistic from the side of man... she have 3 job and will quit them for go to USA... if during your "test periode" you change of meaning, you send her back in Ukraine... where she will be without work for a time... your are two in this game... try to think about the consequence for both...

So before you judge me too harshly, my next installment in this trip report is going to be the 14 day trip I just got back from.  Of this trip we spent 2 days in Kiev and 10 days in Turkey together.  No agency or interpreter to get in the middle and I can tell you it's an eye opener.

 

I don't judge you, i see the fact... you are gaming with fire... you can be lucky or not... my remarks are not for you but for other who wish try like you have make... it was too fast for engagment and K1... this can lead to hell... Now, it seem that the trip in Turkey was good, so your story is a happy story... but think that for one happy story, your method can lead to several misluck and real problem...

In anycase, be happy with your woman... and i hope, for a very long time

[Bruce]

I hope it works out for you.  It seems to me the chances of things working out are slim to none long term based upon what you told us so far - sorry :?.  We'll know more when you give us details about your Turkey trip.  By the way, what was the name of the agency that "helped" you with your girl?

[ronin308]

Bruno, Bruce thanks for your concerns and comments. 

Let me add a few more thoughts on things before I add my comments about Turkey.  First while the agency was pushy, they do have a lot of experience in doing things "their way" and if their results are as claimed they have a lot of successes.  I think the big difference is that their office manager knows all of the women very well so she can act as a matchmaker.  She can very quickly tell me things about the women and their personalities.  To me this is where they succeed and can actually offer what they say.

Additionally they stress that the letter writting is more than getting to know the women, it's also getting to know yourself and understand what your priorities are.  If you do that you chances will be better than you can objectively make a decision.  I also met a man who went through the same agency while I was there.  He and his wife are perfect for each other and extremely happy so I know it's possible.

Of course what let me off the hook is knowing that the K-1 process would take several months and then if I used the K-1 as a "trial period"  .  I now believe this is the wrong way of thinking and would encourage anyone looking to do this to think twice about going down my path.

Bruno as to her job, she works as a bookkeeper and has an excellent reputation.  That is the one profession that due to their backwards government will always be in demand.  Her boss at her primary job will hire her back if things don't work out as well.

[ronin308]

Ok, now back to the story.

Over the next few weeks we begin corresponding via email, which since she doesn't have a computer is a painful process of waiting for replies.  She began taking english classes as well and with her teacher began translating my letters and her replies.

After a few weeks I decide that I really need to spend more time with her to make a good decision.  Since she had mentioned in her interview that she planned to go to Turkey for vacation this summer, I suggested we go together and see how things work out.  She says yes and we begin trip planning.

Now my first thought is ok, how are we going to get along not speaking a common language.  This gets answered for me in an email from her.  She is basically upset that I hadn't called her and wants to hear my voice.  She tells me she thinks I am afraid because our first phone call wasn't exactly a bell ringer.  (Well, unless you like just giggling into a horrible phone connection.)  So I concede and decide to call her.

What a night and day difference.  We were actually able to hold a basic conversation.  She had a good handle on basic syntax the only thing really missing was vocabulary so I'd catch her flipping through the dictionary occasionally.

So now the only worry I had just disappeared.  She was really focusing on learning English and picking things up quickly.

We finally worked out the travel plans.  I was to meet her in Kiev and the next day we would travel to Turkey.  We'd then return to Kiev to spend one more day together before parting ways.  By luck of the draw the only decent flight to Kiev at the time was an overnight in Amsterdam, so I'd get to spend time in 3 different countries.

After working out all of the logistics and solving all the little problems, finally I'm off.

[ronin308]

One neat thing about the KLM flight from SFO to Amsterdam is that you can send SMS messages from the plane.  I sent her one while enroute to Amsterdam.

Arriving in Amsterdam, after dropping my stuff at the hotel I took advantage of the train to the central part of town.  I spent some time walking around there and once I got back to the hotel room discovered some monster blisters.  One was about the size of two quarters next to each other.  Not having anything sharp to puncture them with I ended up stabbing my foot with a ballpoint pen just to make it so I could sleep.

The next day's start was miserable, here I am with a throbbing foot trying to navigate Schiphol airport and then finding out my flight was late.  No big deal, it will still arrive before I had told S to meet me at the train station in Kiev.  At least I can call her from my Ukraine mobile.

Just to be safe though, I tried to use the credit card long distance phones at the airport.  What a waste.  I got several rude French operators, all claiming her phone was unreachable.  Not that she didn't answer but unreachable.  It turns out later that at least one attempt did ring her phone.

Finally the flight arrived and we were able to get out of dodge.  On arrival to Kiev though S proved to me just how smart she was.  First though she had misread the email thinking 14:00 instead of 4:00 PM.  So she was 2 hours early.  After not being able to reach me, she sends an SMS with a delivery reciept.  So I'm not even to the cabin door when I get an SMS followed in about 10 seconds by her phone call.  I explain the problem and tell her I'll call her again once I get out of customs.

Customs was smooth, of course speaking a little Russian this time even got me a smile.  Once outside customs it was find a money exchange ($20 only I know the "gotcha" rates at the airport) and then try my crude russian for "where is the bus to the train station". 

I never got to use it though.  Instead one of the cab "coordinators" latched on to me when we left customs and wouldn't let go (why do they always do this to me?  Do I look that guliable?) So he's trying to get me to go with his taxi service while I'm telling him in English I'm taking the bus.  Finally he offers $20 to the train station, which from memory was a good deal, at least similiar to what the locals pay and since I was late allready I take him up on the offer.

Now I'm finally off to the train station to see what fate has in store for me next.  Once we find each other at the station I am greeted by a hug and passionate kiss.  We take my luggage down to the lockers so we can take the metro over to Kreshatic to get some dinner and have a nice walk.  On the way I tell her about my feet and she produces some small scissors so I can do a better job whacking at them.

This I did in the bathroom of the restaraunt we stopped at.  It's primarily outdoor place right next to the big LG sign on Kreshatik.  We did a little more wandering and exchanged some money and then it was back to the train station to decide what to do for the night.  Both times in Kiev with her this would be a sore point.  I was hoping we could end up at a nice hotel.  Normally I would have done the apartment thing but for 1 night it wasn't worth it.  She was wanting to go to the airport because our flight was early (8am). 

I told her there wasn't really a place to sleep at the airport since the hotel was full, she was tired from the train in from Chernivtsi as well.  Finally she decides to get a "babushka" room.  For those of you unfamiliar with this experience basically outside of the train station there are women with room for rent signs.  Generally these rooms go for fairly cheap and are modest apartments nearby.  We ended up at one that was a short taxi ride away. 

After paying for the room, she called the taxi operator to arrange for our mornings transportation.  Now we get to have the pleasure of sharing the bed.  To me this was interesting as she insisted on having at least 2 of my limbs touching her at all times.  Despite the fact it was hot and icky.

 

[corncrowe]

Ronin,

"she was tired from the train in from Chernivtsi as well."

Interesting that you met someone from Chernovtsy.  Would you mind sharing a little more information about her?  I know this to be a difficult town to meet honest women, so it would be interesting to learn more.

Chernovtsy is home to the Baron and Maria.  Not to mention so many independent scammers.

Thanks,

Jon

[ronin308]

Jon, I'm not sure why Chernovtsy gets such a bad rap.  The only 2 AM/UW relationships I've seen in person are from here.  The first was the person I mentioned about above.  The other was a couple who I ended up flying back with after my trip above.

I'm not sure what you want me to tell you about her, she's 26 dyed blonde with blue eyes.  I had some Ukrainian friends here do some investigation and she came up clean there. 

She's never asked for money and paid her own train ticket to Kiev and back.  She also paid for some of the day to day expenses on our trip to Turkey.  The agency hasn't asked to be paid anything more than the rates on their website and they still look after both our interests.

All of the women I met seemed to be straight.  The same with the agency.  My only complaint is that my hand felt a little too much held but it was still my choice in the end.

[ronin308]

Ok so now begins the trip to Turkey.  A couple of interesting things, she had no real experience with airtravel and it showed.  I also felt I had learned more about her in that one night and morning on our own than the 5 days in Chernovtsy.  There is no doubt in my mind now that interpreters can and do make the process overly cumbersome.

The flight went well other than we couldn't sit together.  (She learned that you need to be first inline to get the good seats)  On the ground we were shown to the bus which took us to the hotel.  We stayed in the Beldibi area which is between antalya and kemer on the aegean side of Turkey.

The hotel was ok, the rooms were nice and clean.  My only complaint about the hotel was the food got boring after a few days. 

We quickly setted into a routine of waking up, breakfast, beach, lunch, laze in the room (afternoons are hot) then dinner and a little exploring.

During this time in close quarters I was able to really get to know her.  We basically spent those 10 days attached at the hip.  Except for about 30 minutes at the internet cafe we were together the whole time.

She was the perfect description of a FSU woman, caring and attentive and expecting me to be the same.  Througout the trip there were no arguments, but both of us got upset occasionally.  She because of her language skills and frustration at not being to be able to effectively communicate.  I got a little tired towards the end and the hotels restaurant didn't do anything to make things better.

What I did learn is that we both did love each other (as well as you can only knowing each other as long as we did) and our personalities would allow us to mesh together well. 

Money wasn't an issue as we both would fork out money for the small expenses and spend our own money for anything big that we wanted for ourselves.  I bought her a necklace that she was already getting her money out to pay for.  

One night we ended up going out on what I can only describe as the party barge.  Imagine a floating disco complete with foam machine.  It was great, especially watching the 40 y/o drunk italian guy try and pickup on the 21ish Russian girl who is sitting next to her mother no less.  She kept telling him ni panimayo when he kept babbling in his accented english.  However she never attempted to flee, I'm not sure why.  I do know that he would have had much greater sucess knowing a bit of Russian.

We danced a bit and she did a few solos on the side of the ship but it was all good fun.  After being with her that night I could tell she wasn't the party queen but she did like going out occasionally.

For me leaving was with mixed emotions, I was tired of a few things but at the same time it also signaled that we would have to be seperated soon.  At the airport she proved that she was a quick learner.  When they opened a new line for our checkin, she dashed in to be the first in line, ensuring we were able to get exit row seats.

Being typical UIA the flight was 40 minutes late.  The plane however was relatively new, with some of the signs in German I figured they bought it from one of the German airlines recently (the seats reminded me of an Airbus flight on Lufthansa)

[corncrowe]

[user=307]ronin308[/user] wrote:

Jon, I'm not sure why Chernovtsy gets such a bad rap.  The only 2 AM/UW relationships I've seen in person are from here.  The first was the person I mentioned about above.  The other was a couple who I ended up flying back with after my trip above.

I'm not sure what you want me to tell you about her, she's 26 dyed blonde with blue eyes.  I had some Ukrainian friends here do some investigation and she came up clean there. 

She's never asked for money and paid her own train ticket to Kiev and back.  She also paid for some of the day to day expenses on our trip to Turkey.  The agency hasn't asked to be paid anything more than the rates on their website and they still look after both our interests.

All of the women I met seemed to be straight.  The same with the agency.  My only complaint is that my hand felt a little too much held but it was still my choice in the end.

[corncrowe]

I tried to post a reply, but can't???

Jon