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Author Topic: Primer on FSU Train Travel  (Read 9870 times)

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Offline Ronnie

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Primer on FSU Train Travel
« on: March 10, 2008, 10:32:16 PM »
I once suggested there should be a Primer for Train Travel within the FSU so that WM can overcome at least in part the fear of his first ride on a train.  Someone suggested I start such a primer so I will accept that challenge but will not be the sole author... It's been 4 years since I was last in country so some things may have changed, though I suspect little has.  I will start the ball rolling by posting a summary of my train travels during the 2002 - 2004 period:

1) My first FSU train ride was Warsaw to Odessa with a change in Kiev.
I was on my way home after a completely unfruitful trip (my second) to Ukraine.  While on the flight from Odessa to Warsaw, I decided to turn around and spend another couple weeks in Odessa.  I don't remember if it was cost or schedule that prompted me to take the train.  After emailing the agency that I was coming back, I went to the ticket window at the central station and bought a ticket to Kiev.  From there I would buy a ticket to Odessa.  It was a late night departure and in the main salon, I noticed a young American I had seen at the Ukrainian embassy earlier in the day..were were both getting visas.  Turns out he had lived in Crimea several years...his father served as a pastor at a local evangelical church.
Because, my ticket was in first class, I had no other occupants in my compartment.  Upon arrival the next afternoon at the Kiev central station (Voksal) I noticed the American guy and we walked to the ticket window where he helped me by a ticket to Odessa while he bought his to Simferopol. I took a minute to chat with him and asked him what the 1 hour or so stop during the middle of the night had been with all the clanging and banging.  He explained that FSU train tracks are not the same gauge as those in Poland and Western Europe so they had to hoist up each car and change the wheels each time a train crosses that border. 
I also had a first class ticket to Odessa and was similarly alone in my compartment.  The trip was uneventful until the last few seconds as the train pulled into the station.  I had the lid to the sink in the up position (the lid/sink serves as a table top in the down position) so that I could shave and take a sponge bath.  A sudden jolt cause lid to swing down (apparently I didn't secure the latch) catching the bridge of my nose as it fell.  A local dentist sutchured me up and I went about my business of meeting ladies...

So that was my first train travel experience in the FSU.  After that I traveled from Helsinki to Pitr, Pitr to Moscow, back to Pitr and back to Moscow; Moscow to Odessa. Kiev to Vinnitsa. Vinnitsa to Dnepropetrovsk, Dnepr to Berlin, Kiev to Dnepr, Dnepr to Warsaw, Dnepr to Kiev. Poltava to Odessa, Odessa to Poltava, Poltava to Kiev, Kiev to Dnepr and finally Dnepr to Kiev.

Only a few times did I travel by first class which is called "Lux"  Second class is the norm - they call it coupe'.  I once traveled third class and I forget what that was called...you don't need to know.

So that's my background.  I know there are others with greater train travel experience and I hope they'll pitch in here.

Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 10:37:06 PM »
Before getting into the nuts and bolts of FSU train travel I wanted paste a posting from a few years ago by Dan concerning bus travel.  I did take Autolux a few times; Once from Borispyl to Poltava and on another occassion from Zaporozhiye to Dnepr.  Bus is best for the short hops such as those mentioned while train rides overnight can not only save you valuable time but money on a night's lodging as well.

Here is Dan's post....

When I travel throughout Ukraine, I tend to prefer the AutoLux bus for *most* travel - especially if it is less than 400 km or so. The options are usually - train (often overnight) and sometimes an internal flight.

Having taken quite a few internal flights, I am reasonably comfortable with the safety aspects, but I am also not naive and I know their safety record is less than stellar. Something to consider.

Overnight trains are great if, like my wife, you grew up taking them and the rolling motion kind of rocks you to sleep. For me, the motion and the constant clanking of the rails (not tight tolerances, you know), means that I am awake most of the night. Now sometimes that is a good (even GREAT) thing , and sometimes it isn't.

Anyway, Kremenchug is my wife's hometown and is approximately 250 km SE of Kyiv. The overnight train takes nearly 8 hours, where as the AutoLux bus takes slightly more than 4. Cost of a ticket for AutoLux Kyiv to Kremenchug is 30 Hr. ($6 USD), and they have an enroute movie (usually Russian) and snacks and drinks - and a toilet onboard, if needed.

Anyway, I recommend them and you can find their schedule and pricing (in English) at this website:

http://www.autolux.com.ua...index.php?d=index&lang=en

- Dan
 
Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 10:50:29 PM »
Buying the ticket at the Service Center.
If you're alone with no driver, interpreter or lady to assist you, you may buy your ticket at the "Service Center".  Service centers are located in most of the major train stations.  Usually the signage is in English as they cater to international travelers.  There are seldom any lines and the staff speaks English.  They also include a comfortable waiting room.  You pay a very small premium..under 5 bucks for the service.  In Kiev the Service Center is located to the far left as you face the main entrance (Kiev has a second entrance on the opposite side).  To get to the service center in Odessa to pass through the main salon and go to the platform. You'll then see the service center is to the right.

I can't say much about the service center in other cities as I never used them after my first few trips..my Russian was coming along well by then and if there were no lines, I used a regular ticket window.

A note on getting from Borispyl Airport to the main station in Kiev.  Avoid the taxis and take the bus or a minibus.  Service is every half hour or so and will cost a tenth of that of a taxi.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 10:52:12 PM by Ronnie »
Ronnie
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Offline Misha

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 06:16:41 AM »
Only a few times did I travel by first class which is called "Lux"  Second class is the norm - they call it coupe'.  I once traveled third class and I forget what that was called...you don't need to know.

It is called "platskartа" (плацкарта). I personally prefer traveling platskarta as I have more room for luggage and I found it less boring: yes, there is less privacy, but there are more people which gives you something to do and somebody to talk to if you speak Russian.

Offline Gator

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2008, 07:21:29 AM »
Ronnie,

You mentioned the Kiev-Kremenchug example where a bus is faster than a train.
I have noted this elsewhere.  Is this the case for most of Ukraine, except the Euro-style express train between Kiev and Kharkiv? 

I have taken the Moscow-St. Piter overnight train four times, and it is a good one.  It is probably much faster than a bus from center city to center city, given traffic congestion in Moscow and thousands of trucks on the highway supplying the growing Russian economy.  Becoming expensive, however, for a first class sleeper ($100).

The railway stations usually have an English-speaking window to sell tickets.  In Kharkiv, it is marked something like "International Travelers."  In Moscow, it is not marked, but just speak a little English or bad Russian to a cashier and they will give you the English window (no problem if you can count in Russian up to 25).   If you are polite, this will necessitate waiting in two lines.  Maybe three lines as the cashiers have a habit of closing the window in front of my nose after waiting 15 minutes.

A final note.  In planning my first FSU train trip I was looking forward to seeing the idyllic countryside from my window seat.  Impossible - a narrow strip of forest bordered the entire length. 


Offline Simoni

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2008, 07:30:59 AM »

You mentioned the Kiev-Kremenchug example where a bus is faster than a train.
I have noted this elsewhere.  Is this the case for most of Ukraine, except the Euro-style express train between Kiev and Kharkiv? 
A final note.  In planning my first FSU train trip I was looking forward to seeing the idyllic countryside from my window seat.  Impossible - a narrow strip of forest bordered the entire length. 


I prefer to fly.  From Kiev to Dnepr it is under 2 hours.  By train is is an overnighter.  Even the express train takes more than twice as long as the flight.

However, guys should take the overnight first class sleeper car once, for the experience.  And Gator, at night with your girl in your arms, you don't mind the miles and miles of forest that obstruct the view  ;D  LOL

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 08:17:02 AM »
Ronnie,

You mentioned the Kiev-Kremenchug example where a bus is faster than a train.
I have noted this elsewhere.  Is this the case for most of Ukraine, except the Euro-style express train between Kiev and Kharkiv? 

I have taken the Moscow-St. Piter overnight train four times, and it is a good one.  It is probably much faster than a bus from center city to center city, given traffic congestion in Moscow and thousands of trucks on the highway supplying the growing Russian economy.  Becoming expensive, however, for a first class sleeper ($100).

The railway stations usually have an English-speaking window to sell tickets.  In Kharkiv, it is marked something like "International Travelers."  In Moscow, it is not marked, but just speak a little English or bad Russian to a cashier and they will give you the English window (no problem if you can count in Russian up to 25).   If you are polite, this will necessitate waiting in two lines.  Maybe three lines as the cashiers have a habit of closing the window in front of my nose after waiting 15 minutes.

A final note.  In planning my first FSU train trip I was looking forward to seeing the idyllic countryside from my window seat.  Impossible - a narrow strip of forest bordered the entire length. 



"Express" trains typically run during the day and are not 'sleepers'. For that reason, they run straight through to their destination stopping only to allow passengers to embark/disembark.

Overnight trains will often use pull-outs where the train idles. This is designed to allow passengers to sleep aboard the trains, intentionally increasing the amount of time it takes to travel enroute.

In the example of Kyiv to Kremenchug, the distance is approximately 250 kilometers. The overnight train is roughly 8 hours enroute because of the stops (pull-outs) it makes along the way. If it were to stop only for passenger loading and unloading, I expect the time enroute would be roughly equivalent to the Autolux buses.

FWIW

- Dan

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 01:47:05 PM »
Actually, I was quoting Dan on the bus thing.  My only experience with the bus was Borispyl to Poltava and Zap to Dnepr.  Consider that an overnight train not only didn't use up any of my daylight hours but saved me a night's lodging cost.

Reading your Ticket and Finding your Seat.


I'll need some help here because I can't remember a lot of details.  He's what I remember:
Your ticket will have the train number (equivalent to a flight number)  It will not tell you your track number... for that you need to look at the signs in the station just as you wood at an airport.
You ticket will also show your date of departure printed numerically with the day before the month i.e.   7.12 would be December 12th.
Make sure you bought for the right day!

Once you know you train number and have found your track make sure the train is your train!  If you are there too early, it may not be your train.  Match up the train number not the destination.  Your destination may not be the final destination of the train.  Your train to Poltava may read "kharkiv". 

Once you are sure you've found your train..your ticket will also contain your carriage or wagon number.  If you're not sure, ask one of the conductors standing near the entry to his/her wagon.

Once your on your correct carriage/wagon, now locate your seat or berth with are posted next to each compartment door.  If it's a night train, the beds will already be in position.  If there is lots of daylight left, the then take a seat until night fall.  Some carriages have luggage storage in an area up over the door and under the botton bench.  If you don't have room, the conductor will keep it in a separate room for a small fee.

The conductor will come around and collect money for laundering of the bedding.  It's a nominal amount - no more than a couple dollars as I recall.

Let it be known you're a first time rider and fellow passengers will be happy to help you.  You should bring pajamas or something comfortable to sleep in.  If there are females in your compartment, be aware of when it's time to change clothes, males will be expected to step out into the hall while they change and vice versa.  Bathrooms are located at the ends of the carriages.  The toilet flushes directly onto the ground so you can't use them while in a station.  Take a sponge or towel bath before the dawn rush.

At this point, I should add that paying a little more for a "Lux" (lewks)
ticket will make things a little more comfortable for you but you may not have traveling companions..for better or worse.



« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 01:52:46 PM by Ronnie »
Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »
You ticket will also show your date of departure printed numerically with the day before the month i.e.   7.12 would be December 12th.

7 December  ;D

We did a train trip from southern Ukraine to Rostov.  Spent most of our time in the dining car.. food was quite tasty. Felt like we were back in the 50's and early 60's.  Train was really old but a great experience, sorta like cheapo Orient Express.  Stops were fun, bought a little salt fish.  Think it was 7 hours or so for around 400 km.  Border UA/RU was fun watching wifey take care of the formalities.. the customs folks finally gave up.

Offline WmGO

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2008, 02:40:01 PM »
Word to the wise:  during the summer if you are traveling
in an air conditioned car, respect the car attendant's closing of the
windows at the station. Do not reopen them trying to get fresh cooler air while the train gets going. Otherwise you can end up on the receiving end of a biting triple decker.  :o

Offline krimster

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2008, 04:00:12 PM »
I've taken quite a few train trips in Russia/Ukraine.  My last (and I do mean LAST) trip was a year ago from Simferopol to Berlin, yup Berlin!  Toilets were good similar to those on aircraft (surprising for Ukraine).  Only real hassles were first going through Poland and having a major search by the Polish police for cigarette smugglers (of which there were a few, never accept request by smugglers to hide their cigarettes!), then in the middle of the night at the German border by the Gastopo, er border Police, this was hysterical, my family and I were sleeping and a German guard abruptly opened the door to our private room, screaming "Papieren! Papieren!", all I could think of was to say "nich shiesen!"  ich bin nicht juden!, haha

In general, not much scenery.  Quality of rides vary, the one from Simferopol to Kyiv has a TV with a few videos, 1st class is OK, we were a family of three sleeping there, it was cramped, but we survived, hey it's not the Eurostar!

It was MUCH worse in Russian Far East from Vladivostok North, hustlers, thieves, "narco-man", but I was single back then and life was just one big freakin adventure, yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the meanest..."



Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2008, 04:06:31 PM »
Cigarette Smugglers...oh yes, I do remember that one time while traveling to the Embassy in Warsaw with my first K-1, the Polish customs came into our car and started tearing into the paneling, ceiling, everywhere.  Thousands of cartons of cigarettes were neatly stashed in there.  The conductor was arrested.  I just kept thinking how long the conductor spent hiding all those cigarettes.

One Polish agent offered me a carton to keep but I told him I don't smoke.  We were delayed about two hours.

Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline krimster

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2008, 04:50:40 PM »
In general there's not much reason to take the trains anymore especially from a cost perspective.  Two years ago Ukraine removed the government subsidies on train travel which caused ticket prices to rise.  At the same time, Aerosvit and other carriers lowered their plane fares to attract more customers.  Prices are much closer, and you save a lotta time by flying.  The main reason to leave Ukraine by train is if you have something that you don't want x-rayed and inspected at the airport, you know like ummm sensitive film or somethin', yeah sensitive film!

Now those of you who buy cigarettes in Poland that were smuggled from Ukraine.  Do you know how successful smugglers do it?  What, ya don't?
Well, what they do see is wrap a bundle of cartons of cigarettes in a plastic bag and shove it deep down into the brown soup in the forward toilette.
Then after the Polish border guards leave they roll up their sleeves and reach down and pull them out!  Because of this the forward bathroom is
always occupied right before and right after the Polish border. 






Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2008, 05:16:29 PM »
Reasons to take the overnight train vs internal flights.

1. Don't use up daylight time.
2. Save a night's lodging (makes the trip essentially free).
3. You don't like to fly - especially on airlines that don't come up to western safety standards.
4. The army just might shoot you down by mistake. (not a joke - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/05/russia.israel)
5. Train stations are conveniently located in the heart of the city.  Airports are outlying thus causing more ground travel time and cost.
6. Air schedules are less frequent.

Advantages over long distance Taxi ride..
1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost
4. Comfort

Guys,
This thread was not intended to discuss the comparisons with air travel.  I know of guys who take taxis long distances because they don't know how to take a bus or train.  This thread is designed to get them confortable with train travel.

Those of you with experience, please contibute...
Next subject...Arriving at your destinationAnybody want to tackle it?

Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline krimster

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2008, 06:05:12 PM »
Tovarisch!
Nyet problem!

vidisch this
http://travel-2-ukraine.com/information/transport/kiev-train-schedule.htm

it's like a train schedule or somethin...

Arrival is EZ!

Train slows down, you look out window, usually small towns have their names on the side of the train stop
if this is where you want to go - get off the train, if not go back to sleep and wait until next time the train slows down

Then get offa der train, usually folks'll walk right up to you and say "taxi?"
say "skolka?" (how much?)  better to have a little pad of paper for them to write on or a calculator for them to type a number
when they tell you a number, say "shto! Gozpedy!" and say skolka again, pay the next figure
then hold out a piece of paper with you destination written on it, and away you go!

Done this a gizillion times, never failed me

oichen horrosho!

paka!

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2008, 06:05:54 PM »
Reasons to take the overnight train vs internal flights.

1. Don't use up daylight time.
2. Save a night's lodging (makes the trip essentially free).
3. You don't like to fly - especially on airlines that don't come up to western safety standards.
4. The army just might shoot you down by mistake. (not a joke - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/05/russia.israel)
5. Train stations are conveniently located in the heart of the city.  Airports are outlying thus causing more ground travel time and cost.
6. Air schedules are less frequent.

Advantages over long distance Taxi ride..
1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost
4. Comfort

Guys,
This thread was not intended to discuss the comparisons with air travel.  I know of guys who take taxis long distances because they don't know how to take a bus or train.  This thread is designed to get them confortable with train travel.

Those of you with experience, please contibute...
Next subject...Arriving at your destinationAnybody want to tackle it?



Need to add a few other considerations to the equation.

In Winter:

* Trains are FAR safer than automobile travel, or even the large coach buses - witness the auto and bus accidents recently reported by RWD members.

* Trains are also safer than planes in winter because of possible failure to effectively de-ice the aircraft.

So in the winter, I am personally MUCH more comfortable with the trains - even though I don't normally sleep well aboard the overnight train.

Road Travel (all seasons):

Breaks into three classes:

* Automobile
* Micro-bus (~8 passengers)
* Coach bus

Because of the condition of the roads and the dangerous driving habits of the residents - bigger is better (and safer).

Coach buses are the least flexible with the number of trips per day - but I have never found that to be problematic.

Back to the trains for a moment:

Generally, the train toilet accommodations are abysmal. The exceptions being those trains that cross international borders - and if it is still running, the Grand Wagon that runs once daily from Kyiv to Lviv. The latter is immaculate in every way.

As WmGO alluded, personal comforts such as air-conditioning in the summer or heat in the winter, are NOT high priorities for the train staff. I normally find the trains VERY stuffy and over-warm, no matter the season. In the winter, you can *sometimes* get some relief by cracking a window, if they are functional - most are not.

I have taken first-class (two berths to a locking compartment), and second-class (four berths to a locking compartment), but never platzkart.

Toilets are *always* locked while the train is stationary - reason being, the deposits in the toilet are simply dumped onto the tracks. If that were to happen while the train was at the station, you can imagine the mess and stench. As a consequence, the only times they open the toilet are after the train is underway - and they lock it a short time before arrival to the destination.

OK - there is probably more as I think of it.

- Dan

Offline krimster

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2008, 06:34:44 PM »
Dan,

The Ukrainian trains I've been on it the last few years have more modern toilettes than the "dirko" in the floor.
They are equivalent to the ones on airplanes, but you're right they still lock the doors for some reason at stops.

You are right about safety, I've only known a few train derailments but with no serious injuries, trains just don't go fast enough

Road travel is the riskiest, many years ago I traveled by car from Kyiv to Sevastopol after I bought a car there,
we went though three road blocks where we had to get out and were searched and harassed by militsia, it was a two day trip!

Don't go long distances by car unless you want a "real" experience

Planes to me are the best, especially after they replaced the old turboprops with new Boeing's.  Now the flight from Simferopol to Kyiv
is just 45 min, add one hour wait on Simferopol, and 45 min on Kyiv including ride to "downtown" and you're still in Kyiv before noon.



Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 07:13:48 PM »
A few tips on gettin off the train...

If you can't read Russian/Ukrainian you will have a minor problem.  However, if you wait until you can see the sign, you may have a problem getting off before the trains starts up again.

So, know ahead of time the exact time the train is scheduled to arrive.

Take care of all you cleaning up and getting dressed well ahead of time.  Have you bags at your side and as the train begins to slow, move your bags to the exit.  Double check with the attendant that this is your stop. "ZHENshina" (Madam) or "MooSHCHEEna" (sir) will get her/his attention, then in an asking tone, "ETah (fill in the name of the town)?"  If you're too early, he/she may say "SLAYdushy" (next) or "DALshye" (further). Small towns usually will have just one station and the train won't stand long before restarting.

If it's a big city and an end of the line city, you don't need to be so concerned about the above.  Some cities like Odessa, may have suburban stops before the train gets to the main station (Voksal).  Don't get panicky if you see a sign that says, "Odessa Sever" for example.  Use common sense,  most people will get off at the main station.

In the unlikely chance you are arriving unannounced, then you can negotiate with a taxi.  However, most apartment managers and/or  agencies will meet you as part of the service.  When I took that first train ride an gashed my nose, Andrei, the son of the agency owner, was waiting out on the platform and actually boarded my car to assist me with my luggage.  Of course, I emailed him my car number in advance.  He then helped me find a place to get my cut stitched...ended up being an instructor at a dental school.  She was great!  I tipped her about 50 bucks, I was so grateful.  I wore reading glasses low on my nose to camoflage the Frankenstein look when I went on dates.

Another topic for this "primer" ought to be securing you person effects while sleeping or using the restroom.

Any tips?

Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline Misha

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2008, 07:46:15 PM »
Another topic for this "primer" ought to be securing you person effects while sleeping or using the restroom.

Any tips?

Don't leave expensive things lying in plain view. I personally haven't had any problems with theft when traveling by train in Russia (13+ years). If you don't flash expensive things and don't leave thing lying about in plain view when you are around, you don't really have to worry that much about crime on the train. The "vokzal" (train station) is a bit riskier.

Offline Ridersfan

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2008, 11:00:04 PM »

      My first and only train trip was last October. Express, first class from Kiev to Kharkov and return. Cost was $25.00 each way. Duration six hours each way.

      The trip from Kiev to Kharkov was early morning. There was six passengers in a compartment, three per side. Seats were high back, similar to bus or airline seats. There was a small t.v. on each side above the seats and a movie was played during the trip. The Attendant came and took orders for tea, small snacks etc. There were two stops between destinations each way. The toilets were similar to those on a plane or bus. I don't know if they were locked during the stops but I know they weren't on arrival at Kharkov.

     The trip from Kharkov to Kiev was during the evening with some differences. There were only four persons per compartment and the seats were bench type. Instead of a t.v. there were fold down berths above the bench seats. Attendant also took tea and snack orders.

      According to this site, the four berth compartment is second class. It gives a pretty good account on what to expect.
                   http://www.seat61.com/Ukraine2.htm#trains%20like
 
      This page has more info on train travel in Russia and at one time had a working link to a virtual tour of the Trans Siberian Railway.
  http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm#Moscow%20-%20Vladivostok

        Check out the photo gallery. The first class two berth compartment looks very comfortable.
           http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian-pictures.htm


                   

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 01:49:34 AM »
Interesting thread and very enjoyable.  I love train travel most of the time but it's no place to be if you're feeling sick.  I don't ride as often anymore but when posted in Russia the train was a staple of travel for western journalists and we'd usually be booked in groups of 4, second class.  I have traveled 3rd class a few times but on most trains thats an experience certain unto itself!

Those first 3 years included a lot of train time and now I look back with many fond memories, especially since those trips were shared with men/women who were there for the same purpose.  The toilets are horrible and as has already been mentioned, are closed when near a stop.  That is painful if you just woke up, your bladder is about to burst, and either they've been closed down or there is a long line ahead of you.  It does give one incentive to plan toilet visits in advance!

Never knowing what level of service to expect, I kept a "train kit" in my Moscow apartment.  It had a paring knife, a couple of spoons, an old but sturdy plastic cup with handle in which I could drink tea or make oatmeal or a soup mix with hot water, a small bar of soap, small towel, small can opener, a small packet of tissues, a small flashlight for reading, and usually there was a foil packet or two of instant mashed potatoes.  Most of my "kit" fit into a small/medium plastic bowl with lid for convenience.  I reasoned that if the food car ran out-which happens on a long trip-or the stuff one can buy at a stop is suspect from a health perspective-which it often is-then at least I could drive the hunger pangs away with some instant oatmeal or instant potatoes until we arrived in a city large enough to get something to eat.  Even if the train had nothing else, at least it had hot water for tea.  With my small stash, hot water was all one needed.  It saved me more than once.

Each summer our family takes the train back and forth from Moscow to southern Russia and our dacha on the Volga river.  It's something our 3 daughters looked forward to, but now they're grown and this summer we'll probably go down just as wife, MIL, an aunt, a couple of cousins and myself.  That will be different from previous years of having fun as one big happy family in second class berths for an 18 hour ride.  On those special trips we rarely slept and had great times talking, laughing, and sharing food with neighboring passengers.

Like a couple of the guys have mentioned, I also like 2nd class.  As a journalist the next story could be an article about someone you met on a train.  And it gave me practice time for my Russian.  Most of my time in Moscow was spent in an office setting where Russian speakers were eager to practice and improve their English skills.  Often it was in getting out of Moscow that I could fit into "Russian mode."


Electric trains
Very often my wife and I take what Russians call the smaller "electric trains" from Moscow to visit friends and relatives in Kaluga.  You can travel to several areas near Moscow, such as Tula or Tver, by electric train.  With fewer cars and open cabin configurations, the "electric train" has two classes, first and coach.  There is no sleeping but there is a food car however the available food is pretty limited because most trips are under 4 hours. 

The differences between first and coach on an electric train:  Wooden benches versus comfortable padded seats.  No table versus a table with fake flowers.  No curtains to block the sun versus pretty curtains.  Toilets reserved for first class passengers.  A first class cabin does not have "private" berths, its like sitting in a restaurant with comfy seats and more amenities.  There is typically a television or two in first class.  Of course in coach you've got "local" entertainment.....people who bring along their own instruments and play to pass the time.  That doesn't happen in the first class cars.

Kaluga is less than 3 hours so we usually go by coach.  If our daughters are with us then generally we go first class.  You wouldn't want to go far on an electric train anyway.  Except what you can put in your lap and in a very small overhead type of wire "basket" there just isn't room for luggage.  Some travelers will have luggage when they've been on a flight or larger train, but you can be asked to pay for an additional seat if your things take up too much space.  When we go to Kaluga we make a normal western "carryon" make do for clothing and then we carry a medium size cloth shopping bag with books to read, eyeglasses, mp3 player, a few snacks, etc.

Buying an electric train ticket is much the same procedure and there are a few stops along the way like the larger trains.

In my mind safety is an ever-constant concern in a still developing Russia and rail travel is by far the safest mode of transportation.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 02:11:49 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 02:28:47 AM »
A final comment about time and length of travel.  Unlike Western concepts of large train stations which meet and can go in many different directions, the Russians developed their system with single stations per major line.  So, the Volgograd station handles trains to Volgograd and Kyiv station handles trains to Kyiv, etc.

Compounded with the design of a hub system, Russian train travel can be terribly inefficient in certain respects.  Sometimes it's just not possible to go from point A to point B and then off in another direction to point E.  In the hub concept you must return from B back to point A and then go find the proper station in order to travel from A to E.

I've spent a lot of time in Moscow's Kyiv station, Киевский вокзал (kiev-skiy vok-zal). 

« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 02:30:18 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline Simoni

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 06:24:22 AM »

In my mind safety is an ever-constant concern in a still developing Russia and rail travel is by far the safest mode of transportation.

Excellent and well-written post, Mendeleyev. Thanks for sharing.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 11:28:14 AM »
Mendeleyev!  That's exactly the kind of post I was hoping someone could come up with..  The scan of the typical ticket is a big help!
 :applaud:
Like a sea cruise, a train trip can be a destination in itself when shared with others.
Ronnie
Fourth year now living in Ukraine.  Speak Russian, Will Answer Questions.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Primer on FSU Train Travel
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 01:44:55 PM »
Thanks to you both.  New travelers should remember that a passport is necessary to purchase a ticket for travel including on any train.  With the newer migration cards presented to the clerk at ticket purchase, now the Russian government has a computerized way to check up on you and see if you bothered to register with the internal security police (OVIR) anytime you travel to another city.  If you're going to be somewhere more than 72 hours you must register.

New travelers should also remember that if they take a quick jaunt from Russia over to Ukriane or neighboring Georgia, etc, they must hold a multiple entry visa, elsewise they will be refused entry when returning back to Russia.

In the good old days it was possible to take your passport to a local hotel and pay a bribe, $30 to $50, and they would stamp your registration for the entire time of your stay.  And you could go on your way and live in your own apartment, home of a friend, another hotel, etc.  New regulations now require a hotel to register only for as many days as you stay and to notify by computer the date you checked out.  So make certain you register correctly (within 72 hours of each locale you stay).  The fines for failing to register properly are $150 per occurence.  Two fines on your record means you are barred from applying for a Russian visa for 5 years.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 02:11:01 PM by mendeleyev »
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