Help put her fears at rest

[Lee08]

Hello everyone,
I'm really glad I found this site because I know it will be a big help in the long road ahead.
My special lady is from the Krasnodar Region of Russia, but now has lived in Moscow for one year. She started her English studies when she moved there and she is doing very well with her spoken English. We have been talking for about a month and a half. Things have been going very well between us, and I even have a trip planned for 2 weeks in May. We're both very excited about it.

Now here is the problem that I hope someone can help with.
She wrote me a letter yesterday and told me she was very sorry for her feelings but she was having a lot of doubts and fears from what she had been reading. I don't know if she was searching for info on her own or if someone shoved it under her nose but she had been reading articles about Russian women having very bad experiences after moving to the USA. She went on and on about the way they are "treated" here by bad husbands, the government, and society in general. About how Russian women are totally dependent on their husbands and if they have children and later divorce the woman has no chance at getting custody of her children. About how Russian women can only find work as a store clerk when she has an engineering degree.
And she was concerned about her mother being able to get a visa to visit her in the USA. I told her I don't know, so maybe someone can comment on that here.
There's more but I think you get the idea.
I called her and asked her where she had been reading these things and tried to tell her it's not true. She said that she believed the stories. I talked to her for almost two hours and I think she calmed down somewhat but I still sense some uncertainty on her part.
Is this a stage they go though at some point? I assured her that I would find reliable information for her. The truth. She was very hopeful at this point to hear positive things.
So my plea for help is if anyone could tell me of any websites for Russian women that have moved here and they tell of their experiences or maybe, possibly a Russian woman here would be willing to talk to her on Skype sometime. I'm open to any kind of help or suggestions to put her fears at rest. I promised her that I would do the best I can at bringing reliable information to her, so that's why I'm here asking for your help.
Thank you in advance for anything.

[Misha]

Well, in certain ways, what she has heard is true. It is often difficult for immigrants to immediately find a job in their field. It may take years to find a job comparable to what she had in Russia. Also, she will be dependent on you when she arrives. It is true that many women were quite disappointed with their new lives and their husbands. It is true that she is taking a risk.

My wife also understood that she was taking a risk when she came to Canada. However, I had spent months with my wife in Russia and she had a good idea as to who I was and what kind of man I was. She was confident that I would not be a bad husband and that I was worth the risk. I personally would not sugarcoat it and try to demonstrate that there are no risks, however it all boils down to how well she knows you and whether she can trust you. 

[BillyB]

She went on and on about the way they are "treated" here by bad husbands, the government, and society in general. About how Russian women are totally dependent on their husbands and if they have children and later divorce the woman has no chance at getting custody of her children. About how Russian women can only find work as a store clerk when she has an engineering degree.
And she was concerned about her mother being able to get a visa to visit her in the USA. I told her I don't know, so maybe someone can comment on that here.

Other RW have heard all these stories too. Children here always goes to the mother in event of a divorce unless she doesn't want them or she's harmful to them.  A RW's mom could get a visa to visit for a wedding but nothing is guaranteed. If she wants to bring her mom over here permanently, I believe she would have to get citizenship first. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone?

All you can do Lee is to show the man you are without trying to oversell yourself. It's her choice to believe in you based on what she sees and hears or stereotype you with men who seek foreign wives based on what she heard or read of worse case scenarios. Hopefully she's smart enough to realize not all men who marry RW are the same.

If she keeps resisting, don't force a relationship with a woman who doesn't completely trust you. Also take some backup RW addresses and phone numbers with you when you visit. You might need them otherwise you might end up being on a lonely and depressing trip.

[ambach123]

what she has heard is correct for the most part.

It would be very hard for RW to get any job above the minimum wages regardless of any kind of degree(s) she has. I have seen medical graduates working as lab tech, if at all.

I tend to think that it is a mistake to bring a girl from FSU under false pretenses; she should be told about life here beforehand, otherwise it would backfire.

I also believe an AM who gets into this should have wherewithall to support the woman otherwise he should not be looking into it.

[Gator]

Lee,

The two of you have not even met yet.  So this may be a moot point if you do not like each other.  The best way to convince this woman to move to the USA is to develop a loving relationship,  That takes time.

Some women such as Groovlstk's wife have done well with employment here (she works as an interior designer in NYC).  Most, however, will start at a level below what they were in the FSU.  Even that will require fluency in English.  Yet, given a few years many RW have found fulfilling employment.

Many RW have a friend (or at least a friend of a friend) who has already married and moved to the USA.  The reports from such women carry much weight.  So if her friend has had a bad experience, you face a difficult obstacle.

Times have changed.  Both the job and RM situation has improved, so RW have attractive options without moving to the USA.

[tim 360]

Hey Lee,  Since you two have not yet met in person you may be putting the cart in front of the horse.  Meet her first and you will quickly find if there is even a mutual "chemistry".  I don't want to disappoint you but within a very short time you will know if there is a chemistry or not. 

As far as the employment requirements here for someone from the FSU...it depends on her field; which is something you did neglect to mention.  You would get better info if you stated her field.  Of course her fluency in English would be a big factor, no matter what her field may be.  Except maybe physics or math.

You do not really know her in person and it may save you some wasted time to have a back-up plan in hand in case your first meeting is disappointing.  Good luck,

[Lee08]

As far as the employment requirements here for someone from the FSU...it depends on her field; which is something you did neglect to mention. 

She is a design engineer in the oil and gas industry if that would help.

I know this might sound like putting the cart in front of the horse but I would like to feel comfortable moving ahead in the relationship knowing she feels comfortable, and not forming her feelings around hearsay stories that may or may not be true. I would like to visit her knowing she knows everything up front. I'm not going to Moscow for a vacation to see the "sights", I'm only going to be with her. I would like to step off the plane knowing she knows what is ahead of her IF we like each other and have "chemistry" together.
What I'm asking for is information for her that I know is unbiased and true from a majority of Russian women that have already experienced this, whether it be good or bad. All I can tell her is what I have read and the kind of man that I am.
Maybe I will ask her to make some posts here on this site and see if any Russian women here reply.
Thank you again for your replies.

[BillyB]

Lee, personally I couldn't visit any woman that has negative views of all men who pursue foreign women. I also couldn't visit her if she doesn't like where I live. Why would a guy want to bring a woman into an environment she doesn't like? Get to the bottom of what is bugging her. If anything she should be thrilled that you're coming and keeping the negative talk that turns you off to a minimum.

There is a small chance she's starting to have doubts about you and using an excuse to start growing apart from you.

I think if you invite her to read this forum, she will notice many happy men and RW based on the photos. Send her links to some of the trip reports and the threads where couples post a  picture of themselves and another of their children. These are real life visuals of the folks here. There are other forums for Russian speaking ladies but some are positive in tone and others are negative with some ladies asking for help on dumping her husband after she gets the green card.

[Gator]

Lee08,

I wish you the best.  However, I advise you not to leave home without a backup plan.

I have NEVER visited a woman who was expressing doubts before I met her.  Maybe during our meeting, but NEVER before.   RW at this stage are very enthusiastic, look forward to the meeting, have made interesting plans to entertain you, etc.   Has she done the latter?  Promised all of her time to you?

Another point.  She is employed in a very upwardly dynamic business, so she is not motivated to move even if she had no doubts about America.

Based on the little I know, I give this a less than 10% chance of success, hence a backup plan.  

[groovlstk]

Lee,

One thing you're not grasping is that you can talk yourself blue in the face in trying to convince this woman that her fears about life in the US are unfounded. Until she trusts you 100% (and she may say she trusts you 100% at this point, but no RW is foolish enough to actually feel such trust before she's even met you in person) everything you tell her has less sway than the rumormill.

Are you seeing the common theme in what people are advising you? Spend some time with her, and if you both feel mutual attraction, if you can understand each other well enough to speak about such weighty topics, if you both want to take things to the next step, then she may have enough faith in you to believe. As you can see, those are a lot of ifs you must approach before you get to that point...

[Misha]

I agree with Gator. The oil and gas sector is one of those sectors in Russia where Russians can earn a lot of money. She more than likely has a very easy life in Russia and will likely be very frustrated if she were to immigrate to another country. She would compare the life she had in Russia with her high-status job with the difficulties ANY immigrant faces living in a new country. She would then turn that frustration to the one who is responsible for her "misery" and that person who is responsible would be you the husband.

[Lee08]

I very much appreciate all your opinions and advice, but I think most of you are missing the point of my post. I'm not trying to convince or sugarcoat anything for her. I'm not asking for you're opinion of her or what she does for a living.

She has no prior knowledge of any of the problems with coming to the US, only what she has discovered recently. What she has read may be good info, I don't know. What I tell her really does not matter because my knowlege is also limited. What I am asking for is good information for her to form an opinion on whether she wants to pursue this relationship with me. It's very well possible she has already made her mind up, I don't know, but I told her I would try to find more information for her from Russian women that have already done this. That is all I am asking for.
 Then maybe she and I can discuss it between ourselves and come to a conclusion on whether to continue our relationship or not. I don't think 50 trips to see her would make much difference if she is afraid to come here. But like i said that is something I think we can discuss between ourselves.

She was also curious about her engineering degree and if she would be able to use it here. As I said in my prior post she is a design engineer in the oil and gas industry. If anyone has any knowledge on this it would be appreciated.

[Misha]

It's very well possible she has already made her mind up, I don't know, but I told her I would try to find more information for her from Russian women that have already done this. That is all I am asking for.

If she really wants to know, there are a number of Russian-language forums devoted to Russian women who married Americans. Here is one of them: http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/. If she posts something there, I am sure she will get a reply.

However, I expect that many will tell her to stay in Russia. Immigration is never easy. There are language issues and there are adaptation issues. My wife would be the first to tell you that she finds it extremely difficult to live in Canada and that the only reason she stays is because she loves me. 

[tim 360]

 Design Engineer in Oil and Gas?  I think you should check on how Oil and Gas Design Engineering salaries compare both here and in Russia and if there are any job oppurtunities in her Engineering field near to where you currently live.  If not, are you willing to re-locate?  You would want to check on all that or try a PM to JB since he has been in that field for many years.I suspect she is quite comfortable in Moscow.  She should be very upwardly mobile since that sector is thriving and Russia is taking in astronomical petrodollars and they have enough proven reserves to maintain that status for some time.  It sounds as if she is very well positioned for both now and the future and I would think that leaving all that would be difficult.  There is the Love word but she may be a very practical girl and will realize that she has it quite well in Moscow.



Sorry to be telling you what you don't want to hear, but these things are interconnected.

[Blues Fairy]

IMHO Russian-language forums are not the best source of objective information.  Russian-fiancee.com is a gathering of panicky emotional ladies with little knowledge but very authoritative style and loads of irrelevant details.  

When I was contemplating the move to the US, the first thing I did was go to Careerbuilder.com and launch a test job search using the keywords from my resume.  The results showed that with my credentials and work experience, I qualified for jobs from 50K/year, provided I would continue to work in the same area I did in Russia.  Now that my CV has been on the job sites for the past 2 months, I've had over a dozen recruiter calls and I have no doubts I'll find something as soon as my EAD is in hand.  

I think it's quite natural that a lady who has been independent all her life is apprehensive about the possible dependence; it's not an easy thing to bear for many of us and she is right in examining various opinions.  I think what she is looking for is some kind of assurance.

[Misha]

Even if she posts résumé and it says that she can earn a salary in the 6 figures, it is still meaningless until she lands a job. Also, the jobs in the oil and gas sector are concentrated in certain cities and certain states. As Tim points out, if he is living in a state where there isn't an oil and gas sector, he had better be ready to move. Also, I have yet to meet a Russian immigrant who said that moving to another country was easy. Some immigrants even return to Russia, and usually the ones who have the greatest challenge adapting are those who had very cushy and well-paying jobs back home.

[BillyB]

What I am asking for is good information for her to form an opinion on whether she wants to pursue this relationship with me. It's very well possible she has already made her mind up, I don't know, but I told her I would try to find more information for her from Russian women that have already done this. That is all I am asking for.

Lee, most people who have happy families aren't in the news. Bad news sells. She would have to come here at the forum to read the people who have time to post their happy stories. There is going to be some sad stories too.  A lot of immigrants come to America and succeed IF they want. The average Asian makes more than Caucasians. Where I live, there are over 5000 FSU families and some estimates are up to 100,000 FSU people here and they are thriving fine. My current attorney is female and was born in Russia. She had to go to school in America to practice law.

I know you're trying to comfort her fears so she can focus on you but what if you told her you read and seen on TV of RW scamming men for money, coming to America for a green card, and divorcing their husbands after their green card arrives and moving on to a richer man? Then you ask her if this is true of all RW. I think she wouldn't try to calm you fears but be insulted that you implied she could be associated with the same group of woman you spoke of. Why not speak of those things and see how she reacts? If she blows up or dumps you, then you know she has two different standards, one for her and one for you.

[GalinaF]

IMHO Russian-language forums are not the best source of objective information.  Russian-fiancee.com is a gathering of panicky emotional ladies with little knowledge but very authoritative style and loads of irrelevant details.  ...

Blues Fairy, don’t be so hard on Russian-language forums. A person who asks a question on a public forum should be prepared to get very different replies: sometimes completely irrelevant, sometimes incompetent, sometimes wrong… I’m sorry for you that you didn’t find any useful info on the Russian-fiancee.com site. I’ve asked quite a few questions there, and I’m very thankful for the advice I got. For example, when I was buying a car, many people shared their experiences, and one girl sent me a link to a very thorough article that helped me to choose between a hybrid and a regular car. I also use privet.com – you can find an answer to any question on that site! I use it a lot when I need help planning our vacations.

[wxman]

Since she has engineering degree in the oil sector, one way to bypass having to deal with low wage jobs in the US, if she were to come here, is for her to try and hook up with one of the western oil companies in Russia. I'm sure at this time they need all the engineers they can get in this booming field. She could get in on the ground floor if necessary, and if she does come to the US, transfer to a similar job with the company. Job experience with a western oil company could open many doors for her.

[Globetrotter]

Lee, first things first.  See if you can "stand" each other before you decide to marry...don't you think?  Jobs, career, assimilation into the society comes later.  Since right now you only have a penpal, don't go "Rushin" into anything. 

[MaxxumUSA]

My wife did research also.

She found:  http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/ and visits there fairly regular.

While not all of it is good - it's not all bad either.  I think it's the RW mirror of sorts of RWD.  You might want to send her that link.

FWIW

- Maxxum

[AnastassiaAsh]

Lee, I can talk to your lady through Skype and share with her my experience in life and on the boards. There is truth in all the things she mentioned and it is good she knows it won't be easy here, but she should be totally optimistic about coming here because she should know that IF she comes here she will be your wife and you will support her in everything - and her love to you should be the main reason to come here. PM me if you wish...

[Lee08]

She found:  http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/ and visits there fairly regular.

Thanks very much for the link. Another member also sent it by pm. I have sent it to her. That's all I wanted. If there are any more websites please let me know. I think she is needing assurance like Blues Fairy said and she's starving for more information of what she's getting into even though the timing may be a little off.

[Lily]

Even if she posts résumé and it says that she can earn a salary in the 6 figures, it is still meaningless until she lands a job. Also, the jobs in the oil and gas sector are concentrated in certain cities and certain states. As Tim points out, if he is living in a state where there isn't an oil and gas sector, he had better be ready to move. Also, I have yet to meet a Russian immigrant who said that moving to another country was easy. Some immigrants even return to Russia, and usually the ones who have the greatest challenge adapting are those who had very cushy and well-paying jobs back home.

Lee, first of all I'd say that her fears are well-grounded.

gabaub brings a good point. I would comment that it is probably not that important in what branch was she working, but rather what particularly was she doing for the company. That should be the basis, not the branch.  Design engineer? List all skills that she has acquired doing this job. Learn as much as possible as to where this job may be useful in the U.S., what particularities are for this job in the U.S., and what adjustments or some further training would be needed for her. There should be definitely a certain angle that should be further adjusted and honed in the new country. Show alll those options to her.

As a recipe to get rid of them, I'd suggest the following. First, she should get acquainted with successful and positively thinking people. Eventually Russian immigrants, if she feels comfortable with them and her English is far from fluent yet. Instead trying to diminish the fears, try to augment her positive chances.

Second, she should get acquainted with people successful in their jobs in the new country. Not exactly Russian immingrant, but just successful colleagues. Get her into professional associations, events and gatherings. Let her think that she is ONE OF THEM, make her feel like she BELONGS to them. That should help greatly.

[Lee08]

 I would like to give you an update about my original post, but first I would like to say thank you for all the help and advice that was provided. It is very much appreciated.

I contacted Anastassia Ash about the matter and she completely understood how my lady felt. She was just wanting to talk with someone that had experienced the process and learn first hand from them what actually was invovled. It really was not about what stage our relationship was in.
I set up a phone conversation between her and Anastassia, and then my lady contacted her a second time. I really feel now from talking to her that she is a lot more relaxed now and has a more positive outlook. She still a little nervous about some things but that's normal. I told her not to worry right now, lets go ahead and meet, spend time together, see what happens, and we would worry about the little things later.

I would also like to say that I would highly recommend Anastassia Ash for anyone that needs help anywhere in this process. She was very nice, understanding and very knowledgable. I will be contacting her again.

Thanks Anastassia