Bad sign?

[myrddin]

My own fault.  I'll start fresh one of these days.  Go ahead, insult away.  I'll play it smart this time.  I'll write 1-3 months tops. 

Sorry it didn't work out, phantom, but sounds like it's really for the best. 
I don't see many insults, and I'm sure more than one lurker also benefits from your openess in asking questions and the resultant advice.  That may not sound like it's doing much for you now, but whatever you put out into the world usually comes back with dividends.

[Misha]

She sent me a letter and said that she wanted to tell me the truth.  She meant a man in her town, she said and does not want to leave anywhere.  She is sorry.  My own fault.  I'll start fresh one of these days.  Go ahead, insult away.  I'll play it smart this time.  I'll write 1-3 months tops. 

That is the best strategy. The longer you wait, the more likely that a woman will find another candidate if the correspondence drags on too long. I hope things will work out for you in the future.

[Faux Pas]

Don't beat yourself up too much here. You are in a club of 100's of thousands or more. As stated earlier upthread you are not the first and certainly won't be the last. I can't imagine anyone taking pleasure to kick you while you're down with insults or anything else. The forum is here to help. Yes there was some negativitity to the long letter campaign but at the end of the day, it was all for your own benefit.

Dust off your pants, think about what happened and what you now want to do. If you have the kahona's, get back on the horse that threw you. This time armed with much better information than you got on the last one with.

Good luck to you

[Shadow]

Phanton the letter she wrote was not unexpected for those among us who are around for some time. When a woman is hesitant about meeting, usually there is a good reason. Women will not tell you straight up that they want to break off the correspondence, you will have to drag it out of them. Also they might want to 'play safe' which is why she did not tell you before there was no way out.

Now the new hunt starts, but this time you have a head start. You already know that you are the one who needs to make the decisions on writing, calling and meeting, and you still have the possibility with your boss to leave at short notice, and your passport in place.

So start reading profiles. Write any profile that meets all of your criteria, do not write if something seems off in the profile or the picture.
After a few letters, ask for telephone number and call. Then in a few weeks, pick at least one (if you can handle it more) for a visit.
Make your terms, and while not forcing make sure the women accept it.

And one more thing...do not start all of this while you feel enraged, betrayed or sad about the last woman. You should be cool and ready to trust.

[Serebro]

Serebro...

Sometimes I read your posts and just shake my head in wonderment.  The woman admitted she had another man.  Why would she lie about whether it's a man from her town or not? There are Russian women who do have local boyfriends but still go to marriage agencies to find a foreign husband.  I was going to post this possibility earlier in the thread but it must have slipped my mind when I posted upthread.  This happens often btw.  My wife has GF's that have RM boyfriends.  Seems like your woman just didn't have the heart to actually go through with meeting you and decided to give a commitment to her RM.

so in your opinion it's ok to have a RM and to correspond with a western man at the same time, give hope to him,  give "silly "reasons why she can't meet him and kiss another man at the same time?
phantom wrote that she didn't want to meet him 1 year ago, too, so does this mean that she had dates with another man at the same time? it looks like that, is this honest to her RM?! is this honest to her "pen-friend"who is going to come to see her?!

I don't think it's very good. At the same time I think that next time when the girl avoids meetings it will be a red flag for phantom, if you really like someone and have nothing special to hide you are supposed to want to see him/her

[Faux Pas]

so in your opinion it's ok to have a RM and to correspond with a western man at the same time, give hope to him,  give "silly "reasons why she can't meet him and kiss another man at the same time?
phantom wrote that she didn't want to meet him 1 year ago, too, so does this mean that she had dates with another man at the same time? it looks like that, is this honest to her RM?! is this honest to her "pen-friend"who is going to come to see her?!

I don't think it's very good. At the same time I think that next time when the girl avoids meetings it will be a red flag for phantom, if you really like someone and have nothing special to hide you are supposed to want to see him/her

WOW! *impressed* I actually agree with you on this one. It appears you do have a fabric of some good old fashion moral decency 

[MaxxumUSA]

so in your opinion it's ok to have a RM and to correspond with a western man at the same time, give hope to him,  give "silly "reasons why she can't meet him and kiss another man at the same time?
phantom wrote that she didn't want to meet him 1 year ago, too, so does this mean that she had dates with another man at the same time? it looks like that, is this honest to her RM?! is this honest to her "pen-friend"who is going to come to see her?!

I don't think it's very good. At the same time I think that next time when the girl avoids meetings it will be a red flag for phantom, if you really like someone and have nothing special to hide you are supposed to want to see him/her

Umm... you quoted me incorrectly.  You made it look like it was all one paragraph but it was not.  Two separate thoughts.  First I comment that I think some of the things you say here are off the wall.  Just like your above statements that you assumed I had an opinion about something.

Second paragraph states a fact that has not yet been told in this thread.  I say fact because besides reading about it, I have also known some women personally in russia that do have local RM and yet have profiles on Elena's Models and other sites.  I DO NOT agree with that.  Please please please please... Serebro... do not put words in my mouth, please.

Serebro...

Sometimes I read your posts and just shake my head in wonderment.  The woman admitted she had another man.  Why would she lie about whether it's a man from her town or not?  Seems like she finally confessed and I don't see any benefit she would get from lying here.

**********NEW PARAGRAPH*******************[
There are Russian women who do have local boyfriends but still go to marriage agencies to find a foreign husband.  I was going to post this possibility earlier in the thread but it must have slipped my mind when I posted upthread.  This happens often btw.  My wife has GF's that have RM boyfriends.  Seems like your woman just didn't have the heart to actually go through with meeting you and decided to give a commitment to her RM.

Either way you are on the next step which is a good thing for you.

[phantom]

Thanks for all the replies and advice on this.  It was a lessoned learned.  I'll be jumping back on the horse soon, with much more open eyes this time and watch for the red flags.  Write a few letters, make some phone calls and do WMVM, on the ones that it seems to go well with and that we seem to hit it off.  Make a few trips.  I'm going to take a small break right now.  Staying away from those young ones.  Gonna look 28-44, one a few years older might not be bad and children are a plus.

[BillyB]

Can't remember if you mentioned which agency you used but it's possible they helped prolong your correspondence with a lady by pressuring her to write you regardless of how she really felt. You never know? Just better to play on the safe side and do business with someone else.

[Faux Pas]

Umm... you quoted me incorrectly.  You made it look like it was all one paragraph but it was not.  Two separate thoughts.  First I comment that I think some of the things you say here are off the wall.  Just like your above statements that you assumed I had an opinion about something.

Second paragraph states a fact that has not yet been told in this thread.  I say fact because besides reading about it, I have also known some women personally in russia that do have local RM and yet have profiles on Elena's Models and other sites.  I DO NOT agree with that.  Please please please please... Serebro... do not put words in my mouth, please.

Maxxum

Maybe I misread it but I took it the same way. Almost as if you condoned the practice. Thanks for clarifying

[phantom]

The agency was Maksim introductions.  I was on their site a few minutes ago, just poking around and I noticed that the girl was still on there.  I thought okay, they haven't removed her yet.  Clicked the tab for her sent/rec letters, she had sent a couple of letters.  Now, I wonder, did she really meet an RM or did she have this planned all along with an AM?  That's why she kept putting me off. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I see that she is from Yoshkar Ola, a notorious city for scammers.  My impression is that she was playing you along for as long as possible for a cut of the profits from the agency, delaying your visit for as long as possible.  when you decided to make a quick trip, she was forced to cut off the relationship.  No problem for her since, as you can see, there are plenty more suckers out there.  She probably does have a RM boyfriend, or may even be married.  You were just an income source for her.

[phantom]

I know, I thought that to Yoshkar Ola.  But, Maksim is supposed to be a reputable agency, I had good service.  The girl just changed her mind, despite I said she wasn't reputable, as I was blowing off steam, as it's still fresh.  I'll be getting back on the horse here soon.  Not right this second.  Maybe a few days or a couple of weeks.  Give it time to cool off.  This time watch for the red flags.  Hit it off with a few and then see how it goes in person.

[Shadow]

I know, I thought that to Yoshkar Ola.  But, Maksim is supposed to be a reputable agency.  The girl sure wasn't.

Hold on here. Just because a woman decides that she wants to break off the relationship (which she might have hinted without you understanding) does not mean that she is a scammer or writing for a cut of the agencies profit.
She is nothing more than a woman that changed her mind, was entitled to do so as there were no fixed promises (or even face to face meeting) and there for is free to do as she pleases without discrediting her person.

Put her behind you without false accusations or slurs about her being a different person as you were thinking for one year.
It puts you down as being a total clown, and diminishes your chances.

[phantom]

Shadow,

I wasn't really refering to her as a scammer, I was just blowing off steam.  I know things happen.  I'll be putting it behind me and getting back out there.  It's just still fresh.  Shoot, I actually sent her a letter back wishing her luck and saying sorry that we didn't meet and it ended up this way.  Nothing wrong there.

[Shadow]

Shadow,

I wasn't really refering to her as a scammer, I was just blowing off steam.  I know things happen.  I'll be putting it behind me and getting back out there.  It's just still fresh.  Shoot, I actually sent her a letter back wishing her luck and saying sorry that we didn't meet and it ended up this way.  Nothing wrong there.

Nothing wrong with feeling hurt or blowing off steam. But many women ended up portrayed as scammer for turning down a guy. 

[phantom]

I relaized that, that was why I removed her profile number from the other post.  We spent a nice time corresponding and talking.  Even sent her a few gifts.  Just hurt feelings and had to blow off steam. 

Infact, I would probably recomend Maksim to people.  Don't know if I'll be using them this time, but who knows.

[I/O]

I relaized that, that was why I removed her profile number from the other post.  We spent a nice time corresponding and talking.  Even sent her a few gifts.  Just hurt feelings and had to blow off steam. 

Hang on to your hat Phantom, there is a lot more hurting in front of you if a failed letter writing campaign was enough to light your wick.

Infact, I would probably recomend Maksim to people. 

They sure did a nice job.

Phantom, you've been 'effed over completely here, either by the pretty face, or the agency or yourself. I suspect a combination of the three, but that's not important, the result is. Thus far.....what? Seems like you haven't been close enough to Russian woman to even smell one, much less touch one in what + 1 year? Not to mention having not seen the ground on which they naturally stand.

Building usually starts with foundation and that is where? The ground. Go get a look at that and then you might be a chance of building something (A workable process) from there. Short of doing that, I suspect you'll repeat the same cycle in a slightly different form.

I/O

[phantom]

I/O

What would I do without your remarks?  No, for one I learned a hell of a lot from this.  When I cool down and feeel better.  I'll be moving on to differnt places, building a foundation.  Not on a pretty face and a fast talking agency.  I have a profile still on cuteonly and as a matter of fact, I don't know about this.  The girl does not really choose to do email, so she contacted me and when I sent her a small note, she gave me her phone number.  I may or may not call her in a day or more. 

Right now, have to get my feet back on the ground and start to build a foundation to start from.  One more thing, I haven't heard from my nice little manager, since the day before the letter and not since after.  The other manager that I had, had been sent to Maryland and was going to email me, within a few weeks of being here.  Probably to warn me of this.  A bit late for that.

[I/O]

I/O

What would I do without your remarks?

Dunno, don't care actually. Point of remarks is, take your head out of the glass jar and eyeball Russia and some of it's inhabitants directly if you hope to find a flower among the many noxious weeds existing there.

I/O

[Gator]

Phantom,

There are two explanations:

1.  The woman did indeed find another man, perhaps prompted by your lack of forcing a decision.

2.  You have been the victim of an agency's concerted effort to slowly take your nickles and dimes, and the total amount is significant when played for a year.

Of course you don't know, but I would guess Number 2 based on what you wrote.  I understand Shadow's point, yet even if Number 1 is the truth, the woman is not decent for the reasons stated by Serebro.

By the way, just how much did you spend on this particular woman?  I ask for the benefit of other men who may also fall prey to the same trap.

Phantom, no more letter campaigns please.  I keep suggesting a local agency for a few important reasons, provided you get on a plane ASAP and visit many RW.   Also, you can show up without writing letters.

Somehow your chosen avatar predicted this.  Next time.

[ScottinCrimea]

Hold on here. Just because a woman decides that she wants to break off the relationship (which she might have hinted without you understanding) does not mean that she is a scammer or writing for a cut of the agencies profit.
She is nothing more than a woman that changed her mind, was entitled to do so as there were no fixed promises (or even face to face meeting) and there for is free to do as she pleases without discrediting her person.

Put her behind you without false accusations or slurs about her being a different person as you were thinking for one year.
It puts you down as being a total clown, and diminishes your chances.

[Catman]

Take a rest from this. I've been through something similiar, far worse. I started looking at profiles right away after realizing that I have been wasting my time with probably a professional dater. No matter what the girls wrote in their profiles it all looked the same to me. It is hard to trust again so soon. Sit back, read the posts and learn as much as you can. I have learned there is such girls known as "travel whores" and there are actually girls out there who can "hand you your arse"   I love this site! The people on this site are great and have a lot of very valuable information. Good luck!

[BillyB]

Somehow your chosen avatar predicted this.  Next time.

How about this time? Anyone know of a place where I can buy a bullet and rent a gun for under $12?

Use caution when using agencies that make you pay to play per letter. I'm even skeptical of the big agencies with good reputations too because as long as there's a middle man making a profit down to the feeder agency owner and even the translator, things could get corrupt. I understand the need for them to make a profit but not through deception when their goal is supposed to get you hooked up with someone instead of dragging things out. If you choose to use and agency again, get to phone calls immediately to figure out if the woman has real interest in you. that means she's enthusiastic to hear your voice and asks questions about yourself and life.

[KenC]

OMG, aren't we a bunch of little drama queens here, now!
 

Some of you sound like junior high school girls, for Christ's sake!  WTF happened?  "She dumped me!"  Wah wah wah.  If one semi-important electronic relationship goes south, so what?  A week ago, this girl wasn't important enough to go see, and now you are going to have to wait for your fragile ego to get back intact before you move on?
 

Maybe a bride from the fsu is not for you then.  You could have your Momma pick out a nice girl for you instead.  Or you could "grow a set" become a man and move on.  The choice is your's of course.
KenC