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Author Topic: First trip a partial disaster  (Read 7079 times)

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Offline Mtnmansummit

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First trip a partial disaster
« on: August 10, 2005, 05:36:48 AM »
I need direction and help.  I realize I am opening myself up to criticism. However I choose to seek advice at this board because of the higher percentage of knowledgeable responders.  Please don't tell me to read past threads, I have read threads but they can get very long without reaching conclusions and contain a lot of in fighting. Believe it or not you people can get a wee bit head strong.
I made a trip to Kiev and met two ladies that I had communicated with for several months. I worked from the theory of meeting one or two ladies I had corresponded with over a long period of time; rather than trying to meet six or eight ladies. Frankly I did not organize enough and do the time management required to meet several ladies.  
One lady and I agreed after meeting that we were not couple material. The second lady may or may not be a scammer but I spent money for naught. Posts have said that RW are territorial and will stack out their man quickly if she has even a slight interest. We were never alone, she rejected and suggestion of coming to my flat. She had to be on her way home every night by 9:00 and she had changing stories about her job and other responsibilities. I got a couple of kisses on the cheek and a lot of good nights. I retreated, regrouped and contacted three agencies in Kiev: I got help from Unona agency and met a lady. Unfortunately we had the opportunity to date only twice before I had to leave.  My intention now is to return to Ukraine in the spring. I will write to and meet the lady I meet in the last few days of my stay, and I will find and write other ladies. You tell me, did I expect to much to soon? Is my situation typical? Am I  chasing wind mills?   Thanks Richard

Offline Turboguy

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 05:45:59 AM »
It sounds pretty typical to me.   I don't think I would pin a lot of hopes on the second lady.   Of course forget the first.    It is not usual to date two women in the usa and come away with one you want to spend your life with so expecting more there is not realistic.   

It used to be a lot harder to do this than it is now but I weeded through hundreds of women trying to find the right one.  There were a few early that I probably should have latched onto but did not because I was too dumb and the pickings were too good and I was afraid i would miss something better.   I learned my lessons about that.

If I were in Kiev with no one to meet i think I would go visit Elena's   I went there with a friend and they did a great job of hooking him up with some gals.  That time we were there on a romance tour with EC but there was a lot more bang for the buck and targeted results at Elena's

I think I would not waste much time with your existing gals.   Line up new ones, go back.  The right one will come along.

 

Offline Michelangelo

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 05:49:14 AM »
Quote from: Mtnmansummit
You tell me, did I expect to much to soon? Is my situation typical? Am I  chasing wind mills?
Yes, Richard, your situation is the norm.  Some guys get lucky, but most guys get exactly what you had happen.  Many agencies have high profile girls that will meet you and date you and kiss you on the cheek and leave you alone at 9 p.m. for the night....as you discovered.  I had the same thing happen to me last year, and I blew 3000 bucks and only got frustration.

I changed strategy and then wrote a lot of girls.  That makes a big difference.  Agencies are also a plus, if you get a good one.  In Kiev, I had good treatment with Tamara (PM me and I will send you her URL).  At that agency, you can look at profiles and then meet the girls cold turkey without writing, and invest only minutes instead of months. Cuz you see, without chemistry, letters were a waste of time.  So my new motto is "meet first" and then get to know the girl.

The other important thing is to have a local guy as translator.  I can recommend someone super in Kiev (Pavel), who I have used on 3 trips.  He is well worth the few bucks you pay him...he can pick up up at the airport, get you a flat,  give you advice and "reads" on girls, and translate for you too.

That's my advice for now...
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline Bruno

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2005, 06:05:18 AM »
Two girls for a first meeting is too much little... 4 of 5 is a better number... i think that write for some time before meeting allow you to know a little the woman and remove some of them from your list... sometime, it is a need... During meeting, some peole are lead by the little brain... the lust brain and are not more able to think...

Nothing stop you to have a big list of contact information of other ladies before your departure... some that you have already write, your prefered... and some in case of problem...

Now, about how much trip needed for find the right woman, it is difficult to reply... some find directly, some need year... don't choice one because you begin be desseperate but keep your wish at a realistic level... RW can be good woman but they are not superwoman... nobody is perfect... dating is a hunting process and when you are hunting, you don't always come back home with some beast, sometime your hand are empty...

Hurry the thing are the best way to make mistake and spend several year of your life with the wrong woman ( i speak by experience )...

Offline RacerX

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2005, 06:59:36 AM »
I dunno - sounds to me like your trip was a success - you  now have the experience next time to go after what you want.

Don't believe this BS about how "warm and friendly" the natives are!  FSUW are (that is, the ones you are going to want to marry someday) very conservative until they know you better, and then.... well let's just say it will all be worth it!  A peck on the cheek is actually MORE than you should have expected or gotten.  

This process takes TIME very much time and effort on your part.  If you are looking for instant gratification, best say at home as you will find this all will take a lot of money and a lot of your time.

My best advice: find a RW advisor to help you sort out your feelings and that of any prospective women you might meet.  I know one, but she's expensive (altho well worth it).

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2005, 06:59:49 AM »
I met one girl as a friend that I cared for and the second I thought there was chemistry until she actually saw me. Neither trip was disappointing because I was aware of what could go wrong and had a solid backup plan. These girls were 30 years younger than me and it explains my failures.

 

My fiance I met through an agency and she has proved to be the perfect match. I say perfect match, but there have been many, many conflicts and minor disagreements. This is normal because of the different cultures.

 

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2005, 07:03:05 AM »
I believe a 55 / 56 year old guy should have no problem meeting stupendous women in the FSU.  Kiev is a great city to visit.   I figure girls from age 30 on up either with or without children depending upon what you want are readily available for you.  You are lucky because in that age group all were raised during Soviet times, so their value system should be darn good.

What happened to you could easily happen to any guy.   You corresponded with two girls, thought both of them would be really good for you but when you met with them both turned out not to either like you enough to want a long term relationship with you or had suckered you over for a money or just to see if the foreigner would show.  One was either direct or honest enough to tell you right off the bat things would not work out and the other one wanted to spend more time and or your money with you to figure if you two would work, if it was not pure "what can I get," agenda.  I assume everything was legitimate and since it takes two to tango, all of us have played the single game ie. you like them and they do not like you and vice-versa.  No harm done and hopefully you learned alot in the process.

Re-evaluate everything you did and improve upon it.  Whom did you write initially?  Did you write many girls or just a handful that you eventually narrowed down to those two.  Where did you get the addresses from?  Were these girls really legitimate or did they just play along with an agency to get you to go to Kiev to start with???   Perhaps both girls just in a way suckered you to Kiev.

Definitely go back to visit the girl at the end of your trip if you correspond well between now and your return.  If not, why go back to Kiev???   I could see going back there but do you really want to go back if you have no prospects there?  The FSU is a big place and there are alot of nice places to visit, many similar but many with their unique charm.  I know I have barely scratched the surface and I've been to alot of different places there multiple times. 

How did the agencies help you?  Was the one agency you mentioned all that you expected?  If not, maybe you should work with other agencies.

I advocate going to a target rich environment with the help of an honest agency.  Read the girls profiles, send a general letter of introduction to the ones you are interested in, find out which ones will meet you and if there are enough to justify your trip (10 or more) go over, meet them all plus any additional ones who join the agency or you meet while in the city / town and whittle them all down from there.  After that it would be another trip for the survivors from your initial trip, hopefully one left after that trip and at least one more trip to see if you both really have met a significant person in your lives.  Of course you are corresponding with the "survivors" after your trip which should help you really learn alot about them and them / her you.

Best of luck.
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline BC

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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2005, 09:10:18 AM »
Richard,

Dissapointments are directly related to our expectations.

What were your expectations?

Just curious.

btw were you able to get out and see some tourist attractions etc and otherwise enjoy your visit?

Offline PeeWee

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2005, 09:52:43 AM »
Quote from: Mtnmansummit
I need direction and help. I realize I am opening myself up to criticism. However I choose to seek advice at this board because of the higher percentage of knowledgeable responders. Please don't tell me to read past threads, I have read threads but they can get very long without reaching conclusions and contain a lot of in fighting. Believe it or not you people can get a wee bit head strong.
I made a trip to Kiev and met two ladies that I had communicated with for several months. I worked from the theory of meeting one or two ladies I had corresponded with over a long period of time; rather than trying to meet six or eight ladies. Frankly I did not organize enough and do the time management required to meet several ladies.
One lady and I agreed after meeting that we were not couple material. The second lady may or may not be a scammer but I spent money for naught. Posts have said that RW are territorial and will stack out their man quickly if she has even a slight interest. We were never alone, she rejected and suggestion of coming to my flat. She had to be on her way home every night by 9:00 and she had changing stories about her job and other responsibilities. I got a couple of kisses on the cheek and a lot of good nights. I retreated, regrouped and contacted three agencies in Kiev: I got help from Unona agency and met a lady. Unfortunately we had the opportunity to date only twice before I had to leave. My intention now is to return to Ukraine in the spring. I will write to and meet the lady I meet in the last few days of my stay, and I will find and write other ladies. You tell me, did I expect to much to soon? Is my situation typical? Am I chasing wind mills? Thanks Richard

So far you have not drawn any fire. I think you are on track. I have experienced something simular as you. I was not fazed by it. In fact the one who was the most standoffish turned out to be the beter choice than the one who stayed in my hotel room the first night. Both women, in the long run, proved to be excellent choices, but the more distant one became the one who will now relocate to the US with me. You must return and try it again.

Peewee

Offline Shadow

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2005, 09:56:17 AM »
Richard it seems you are verycapable of identifying the situation. While the second girl may have been more appealing to you, it was clear from her actions that she did not have an interest in you. No need to meet her again, unless she has kept in touch and the tone of her letters has dramatically changed after the meeting.

As far as meeting 1,2 or 5, 6 girls....glad I am much closer and never had to go to such kind of meetings. The advice I always give is to do what is closest to your nature. If you are not good at dating multiple women at home, meeting 5 or 6 will confuse you more than help you. This confusion can lead to drama as well. I guess you did right last time, and will do even better next time, as you are more able to predict what will be happening in Kiev. Perhaps a mix of strategies would be best.

Meet 1 or 2 women, and keep in touch with a Kiev based agency in case both turn out not to have chemistry.
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Offline groovlstk

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2005, 10:50:59 AM »
Richard,

Give yourself a little breathing room, I'm willing to bet in a few weeks your perspective on your trip will change. Think of the positive. You're infinitely better prepared for your next trip, you know you'll be comfortable with all the logistical concerns that made the first trip a bit worrisome, you've met the locals, you had the cajones to do what the vast majority of American men who write FSU women don't do: you took the plunge and went over there.

Rating the success of a trip is very difficult, particularly since if (like me) you're hoping to find someone to spend the rest of your life with. That right there makes you think "hit or miss" when evaluating your experience.

If you're still in touch with the last girl you met, then at the very least you have something to build on. It's hard not to hope to meet the girl of your dreams on your first trip--it's just not very realistic. Be prepared to spend a lot more money and time on this venture.

Offline Albert

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First trip a partial disaster
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2005, 05:24:19 AM »
You are, and will, get a lot of different advice based on the personalities of the posters.  Some are logical about this endeavor and some are emotional and completely irrational when it comes to women.  Some can correspond and meet with several women on each trip and some can only focus on one gal at a time.  Some are very organized and can communicate very efficiently via e-mail and phone with multiple women at a time and not be fazed by it.  Others are very poor writers and talkers, and have to limit their correspondence to a few messages before running out of things to say.  Some have dated very little in their home country, have very low sex drives and go ga ga when they get the gal to hold their hand or kiss them on the cheek and are instantly in love.  Some put these gals on a pedestal and swear that even the ones with children are virgins.  Others see them as just women.

What is the appropriate method for you depends on which group of guys best describes your own personality, abilities and experience.

My advice:

1) Diversify.  This is the sane procedure for financial planning, and the sane method for meeting women in far off places.  Putting all your eggs in one basket is recipie for financial failure and for horror stories in trip reports.

2) Learn how to write and how to manage volume correspondence in an efficient manner.  Prewrite 10 sequential letters to send to the gals.  Of course do this on your word processor.  Then when you answer each gals' sequential messages, just emend your prewritten message to customize it for each gal.

3) Limit your correspondence time.  Get your trip dates planned.  Choose your gals from whatever source . . . .  agencies, websites, your own advertisements, etc.  Then about 6-8 weeks before the trip make your contacts with the gals.  Use your 10 prewritten messages during this time.

4) Get a lot of experience meeting women in your home area.  Romantic dating is best, but even just interacting with women on any basis is good and will help get you over the ga ga feelings that many guys have when they get face to face with a pretty gal.

5) Be realistic regarding age and beauty.  Try to stay within some years of your own age and don't trade-up too many notches from your own looks.

6) Don't get at all attached to any of the gals based on the correspondence before meeting.

7) Try to get off the beaten path, provided you can line up 10 or more gals to see in your chosen target city.

8) Control as much of the trip yourself as you can.  Do as much as you can yourself without letting an agency dictate your actions.

9) Either learn the language of the country you will visit, or limit yourself to gals who can speak your own language.

FSU women are not more educated, more beautiful, nor more intelligent than women in your own area.  There are only two significant difference between the women in FSU and those in your own city.

a) The FSU women tend to be more slender for each age grouping.  This may or may not continue after their arrival in the west.

b) Younger and better looking FSU women are simply more available to you.  For every young and beautiful gal you see in the FSU, there is an identical one in the west.  But the one in the west will not date you, the one in the FSU will.

Offline KenC

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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2005, 08:03:42 AM »
Very good post, Albert.
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2005, 08:04:18 AM »
What works for one guy, does not always work for another. I'm a firm believer in beginning a relationship through email and letters and phone conversations. I have the minority opinion that you actually can get to know someone before meeting them. But, maybe that is only true for 10% of the guys who are doing this. For myself, I've approached these forms of communication as ways to have fun with her, as ways to seduce her, to flirt with her. I would not approach it as a scientist looking to create a graph of her responses and thoughts on politics, religion, and sex. Not that others do that, but it amazes me that some guys just don't connect via writing - maybe they just aren't good at communicating that way and can't 'be themselves'. I don't know. I do know that writing to just a few women worked for me and maybe I'm just lucky our paths crossed. If I do it over again, I'd narrow it down to those who spoke English moderately well, and then do many phone calls, SMS, email, letters.  And then if bad luck strikes when you meet her, have a plan B that is not too frenetic, with other local women. Setup very short meetings to gauge chemistry. Relax and have fun. Be confident. PM Anono to find out about the Alpha male thang.     :P

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2005, 08:12:34 AM »
Albert's list is well thought out and analytical.

But...  there are some other key factors that aren't listed.
 
Both parties ability to
compromise
be considerate
forgive
accept
love
enjoy life

Those are few off the top of my head. And these are MAJOR factors that are difficult to quantify.

Offline Shadow

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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2005, 08:32:13 AM »
Albert, while I like the start of your post, I would like to comment on some of your tips. Not to criticize you, just to give a different viewpoint.

 

Quote from: albert
Remeber that women do not differ a lot from the ones in your own area. And ther for remember that if this girl that would not be available at home suddenly is interested in you, you might want to questions her motives. They can be fully honourable...but also purely economic.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 08:33:00 AM by Shadow »
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Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2005, 02:04:37 PM »
I had read that the FSU woman were the most educated women on the planet. 98% literate. We cannot claim 98% literacy here in the US. I will agree that there are beautiful women everywhere but when it comes to education I have to go with the 98% literacy statistic. To add to that there are more bilingual and trilingual women in the FSU than the US. Another sign of a better educated woman? And why is it that when the average Russian child relocates into an American school that they seem to excell? Better educational foundation? More motiivation? More desire to learn? I don't know why.

 

PeeWee

Offline ConnerVT

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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2005, 02:29:18 PM »
I disagree.  There are more bilingual people in the US than in the FSU.  Unfortunately, for most of them English is a second language.  :P
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 02:29:00 PM by ConnerVT »

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2005, 02:59:32 PM »
Quote from: ConnerVT
I disagree.  There are more bilingual people in the US than in the FSU.  Unfortunately, for most of them English is a second language.  :P

yep, because they are indeed foreign born. I was talking about people who are native to their country.

 

PeeWee

Offline Michelangelo

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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2005, 06:51:52 PM »
English is a tough language to read and write.  We have 44 speech sounds and only 26 letters of the alphabet.  Phonics does not always work since we have these variables. Plus, in the US, our population is more diverse.  Facts, not excuses.   But I think our system works quite well.  After all, which country sets the mark in technology and innovation?
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline PeeWee

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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2005, 08:02:34 PM »
Quote from: Michael

I think it was Bill Gates who set the mark for technology and innovation. His income exceeds that of many many countries.

 

PeeWee

Offline itstime

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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2005, 08:49:26 PM »
Quote from: Michael
English is a tough language to read and write. We have 44 speech sounds and only 26 letters of the alphabet. Phonics does not always work since we have these variables. Plus, in the US, our population is more diverse. Facts, not excuses. But I think our system works quite well. After all, which country sets the mark in technology and innovation?

I've always considered that Japan sets the mark in technology and information. And they do have a more complex writing system than English with 4 different alphabets. They use Romaji for English names, Hiragana syllables for Japanese words, Katakana syllables for words adopted from foreign languages and then about 5,000 Kanji pictographs as shorthand for common Japanese root words.

So maybe Russians excel in school, partly because they have had to learn a second symbol system, not just a second language?

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2005, 09:15:20 PM »
Quote from: PeeWee
I think it was Bill Gates who set the mark for technology and innovation. His income exceeds that of many many countries.

 

PeeWee
[/quote]
I have never think that income was a sign of technology... usualy, for make research, you spend a lot of money... Bill Gates is very good in marketing and for protect his product...

The only innovation from Microsoft is that they correct more fast the hole in her instabel system named Windows XP... almost 10 patch in the last 5 day... and today, a ptach for the patch of yesterday...

Now, take example of technology who generate no money... Linux have a system version from 64 bits since the begin of 64 desktop processor ( Athlon 64 or Intel EMT 64 )... where is the version 64 bits from windows XP always promise and reported...

Bill Gates is a shark, a business man... nothing to make with technology and inovation... bad example...

How much people who make research in USA are from US origine... each year, American society are waiting our best new searcher at university... if they seem to be on the way of a good finding, they buy him with a big contract...

By example, the base of the space technology, both in USA and Russia is coming from German research during the WW2... Now, USA and Europe society are taking all the russian searcher at very low price... russian goverment have not enough money for pay local searcher and research... Here, in Belgium, we make the same with African people... we sponsor the best of them in University study and we keep the best of them in exchange of good income and better life... Germany make the same with indian programmer...

Really, we are not in the top country about innovation... but we are the best business people...

 

Offline Shadow

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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2005, 01:20:41 AM »
Quote from: PeeWee
I had read that the FSU woman were the most educated women on the planet. 98% literate. We cannot claim 98% literacy here in the US. I will agree that there are beautiful women everywhere but when it comes to education I have to go with the 98% literacy statistic. To add to that there are more bilingual and trilingual women in the FSU than the US. Another sign of a better educated woman? And why is it that when the average Russian child relocates into an American school that they seem to excell? Better educational foundation? More motiivation? More desire to learn? I don't know why.

 

PeeWee
PeeWee does the report say which languages they are speaking ? As you might know Russia has 176 nationalities, most have their own language and share Russian as common language. Not difficult to be bilingual in such a case.
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Offline Bruno

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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2005, 03:06:58 AM »
Quote from: PeeWee
I had read that the FSU woman were the most educated women on the planet. 98% literate. We cannot claim 98% literacy here in the US. I will agree that there are beautiful women everywhere but when it comes to education I have to go with the 98% literacy statistic.

Statistic about Literacy for woman : http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_lit_fem&int=-1

11 :  Ukraine 99.6%

13 : Russia 99.5%

47 : USA 97%

 

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Shake that booty!! by 2tallbill
Today at 11:11:07 PM

Re: VISITING ONE versus VISITING MANY by ML
Today at 02:48:14 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 02:40:51 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 02:07:46 PM

Re: VISITING ONE versus VISITING MANY by Trenchcoat
Today at 01:40:09 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 01:35:09 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 01:31:38 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 01:21:41 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 12:51:22 PM

Re: Shake that booty!! by Chelseaboy
Today at 12:21:07 PM

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