English speaking ability

[Lee08]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to ask the men here how they feel about a lady's English and if they have a standard by which they go by to determine if her English is good enough for you to decide on a possible relationship with her, which I'm sure will vary based on the man.

I guess what I'm asking is what is your personal opinion of what level of English ability that you feel comfortable with, and how well you have communicated with a lady and how your relationship worked out.

I'm really curious about this and mainly if anyone has had long term relationships with a lady that spoke very little English.

Thanks for any replies.

[Jumper]

Leo-
i'm glad you recognize that everyone will have a personal level of comfort with this, and it will vary greatly.
You already expect the answers to be all over the place, and i'm sure you wont be disappointed ! lol
so since you wisely asked for personal opinions (as thats all you can expect)

my experience:

I had/have marginal Russian(yes before meeting my wife)
i am nowhere even close to fluent.
I am similar to a dog, i understand basics somwhat well,
and often can get the jest of a conversation (as long as not to many people are engaged in it)
but i cannot speak well, just enough to get my poijt acrioss on fundamentals.
I can read simple basics..
 
While my understanding and speach is limited, I can converse with somone.
so  that likely "colors" my take on the importance of english abilty some,
as when needed i could rely on it a bit to get past some communcation glitches.

my personal take
( i understand others may get by just fine by hand signals alone.. deaf people do it all
 the time for example)

I couldn't possibly long term date ,or intend to marry,
 someone who i cannot converse at lenght and in depth with.
my Russian wasn't nearly good enough to cover that.

while it was fun flirting and dating someone initially.. with limited abilty to converse,
that wore off quickly.(for me)
and it's simply not something i could head seriously into marriage with.

My wifes english was decent,(though strongly accented) she could get by just fine in the US with what she had when we met.(we never needed a translator on a date for example,and i did not use my poor russian other than flirting around when we first met)
To qualify/quantify that:
after we mat and when we were dating,  we often talked for hours at a time on the phone .
(phone conversation is much more difficult for someone in  a second language than face to face) so i would say conversationally fluent all thru our courtship to engagement.

She faced some  difficulty after our marrage, when relocating to the US,,
but 90% of that was do to her accent, and her being not confident to speak out *loudly*
(a very VERY confident person typically,but when first moving here was often
speaking in a quiet voice due to for fear the words were not "precise",
 in turn people often simply could not hear her, and she intepreted as they did not understand her )
after some coexiing to impress her that things need not be "perfectly" pronounceated, as there are MANY accents here..and its normakl (chicago is very diverse)
and that she would never be understood if she diont simply get it OUT there..and start speaking ,being herself , and living life..
she jumped right in..and never had problems afterward.

we have been married 4 years (5 in august)

my personal comfort level would not be below that *conversational* english,
where you can laugh joke and failry easily in general conversation.
(yes there might be some words or idioms  that you need to explain to each other,thats expected even with someone fairly fluent) 

i'm sure other couples  will do fine with much less fluency between them..

 

[Misha]

My wife did not speak any English when we met. I spoke Fluent Russian. There should at least be one language that you share in common.

[FredC]

I think that being able to communicate has to be imperative. Marriage issues aside, if she intends to work outside the home, then she must be able to speak the native language. Otherwise how valuable will she be to potential employers.

[Simoni]

I couldn't possibly long term date ,or intend to marry,
 someone who i cannot converse at lenght and in depth with.

i agree with AJ on this point.   In the early days of dating FSU women, I dated girls with no English and fair English.  I eventually came to my senses and only dated girls who were fluent.

There have been guys here, like Leslie and Mark the oneweekwonder, who married girls with little or no English and it all worked out.  But that was not a gamble I was wiling to take.

[Jet]

In our case, Liliya spoke no English when we met BUT she could read and write with fluency and I sincerely believe the speaking part was simply a matter of self confidence as AJ mentioned about his wife. Once we met in person, we were holding long conversations within a week without too much difficulty, but it still took a long time after being stateside for her to be confident enough to speak in public and on the phone here. This was in spite of the fact that after that first meeting we spent about an hour almost every single day for more than a years conversing in English on the phone.
In retrospect that year of hour long phone calls was the most important thing I did to preemptively facilitate her adjustment to the US.

I agree with everyone else that a shared language (no matter which one) is imperative, but as a starting point I was personally comfortable with sharing the written form and letting the speaking/listening develop as the relationship progressed.

[Gator]

I guess what I'm asking is what is your personal opinion of what level of English ability that you feel comfortable with, and how well you have communicated with a lady and how your relationship worked out.

I'm really curious about this and mainly if anyone has had long term relationships with a lady that spoke very little English.

I was engaged to two different RW over a period of 6 years.  One fluent in English, the other only basic level.

I am marrying the one fluent in English.  Not because she is fluent but because we had endless serious conversations that enabled me to grasp not only the depth of the woman but her values and goals.  Likewise, she got to know me.  We disccovered that we are so close in so many ways and it took communication to understand that.  We became true friends.

The non-fluent RW  is an incredible woman, a real thoroughbred.  We had fun, but not the intellectual stimulation that I crave.  We had misunderstandings that could not be resolved, leaving us both frustrated.  I am still not sure if we could have made it work if she knew English.  Why?  Because I really never got to know her even after a year together.  We simply may have been incompatible for marriage.  My optimism and our fun together encouraged us to continue longer than we should have. 

[mendeleyev]

Lee, you're asking a great question.  I admire your forethought.

About 6-8 years ago on a different forum there was a guy who asked for advice and here was the gist of his story:  In the year previous to his post he had gone to Ukraine and found a beauty.  He brought her back to his mobile home (I don't remember the state) and showed her his shed with a freezer full of meat, knowing that she'd be impressed since in his estimation she had never seen that much food in one place in her whole life (his wording).

Her teenage son came along.  They didn't speak English and the AM didn't speak Russian.  He felt that they had communicated fairly well (how?) the first few weeks but had run into problems after the first month.  In month two the problems esclated but he had no idea why she was yelling because they couldn't understand each other.

In month 3 someone told him about ESL classes and he drove her in his pickup twice weekly.  Apparently that was where she met a new guy because by month 4 it was over.

He of course was asking for advice on which city he should try on his next visit since in his mind the girls in her city (and she included) were scammers.

Keep using your head and asking good questions and you'll find a great lady.

[I/O]

Mendeleyev: Some nice subtle lines thrown in there. I almost spat my coffee across the keyboard laughing. You sure can write.

Lee: You asked if anyone had made it any distance in a relationship with a woman who spoke little or no English. You are now reading the words of one and if you search around a little you will find a couple of threads where the discussion became quite robust on this subject...........And....in those threads you will find that I was rather vocal waxing against dating women without English. It is seriously dumb.

Is my situation a paradox or ironic? Probably, but there was nothing normal, usual or planned in our situation. It happened and it has taken a very long time to be at the stage we are now. It is seriously tough for all the reasons previous posters have pointed out and more.

If she doesn't have English at the start, you can reckon on a year or two of grunting, snorting and waving and other very primitive forms of communication  when you are together and you might find out once you get her English up to some kind of speed, she wasn't the woman you were looking for anyway. What then? Start again, that's what.

It can be done, mine had next to zero English when we first met. We never used a "Terp"........ever and if she had suggested it, I would have ended it right there as there was no way known I would ever have any third person monkeying around in something as personal as this. Thankfully my now wife felt the same way. We both busted our arses to figure it out and there was several times when we frankly asked each other directly......."Is this too hard, should we walk away"?

Again, thankfully, both our bullheadedness served us well and neither of us was prepared to take a backwards step. We dug in and battled on, but, believe me, it has been a battle which is becoming easier over time. Note I said easier, not easy. One thing a native English speaker will need to learn with a Russian partner who is learning English, is that he must learn to speak simply without speaking down to her. Not quite as simple as it sounds.

Bottom line, my 3 cents worth on this subject, if you have a choice, and at the starting stage, I believe you do, stick with ladies you can have a decent conversation with by telephone. There is a lot more of them out there than the "terps" would have you believe.

I/O

[docetae]

You must be able to make her laugh and smile After all communication is easy.

[Andrew]

IMO the English speaking ability is of no consequence.
Thank God my Russian speaking ability was also of no consequence.

If the attraction is there, the communication will follow.
I've been with my girlfriend 3 going on 4 years now and we could not speak each others languages when we met, however she could read and type English, not well but well enough. Apart from buggering up each others languages, we also used a laptop with translation programs on it and now we are quite content speaking to each other in our own "special" language--- Russ-Lish...... fun to learn, hilarious to hear 

I think, if its meant to be, the mountains become molehills...........

[tim 360]

If both people have the will...there is a way, of that I am confident.  There are many different opinions on this subject and you will need to use your own brain on it.  With women, communication is a very KEY ingredient.  Some scientific study revealed something like women need to communicate 5000 words per day, while men are happy with 500 and some are content with less.  I don't know, but seems about right.  Many guys are happy with a few words and associated grunts I guess---but women need more.

I feel a common language is a very good idea, albiet with 2 willing people, they will find a way to overcome that obstacle.  Somehow.  And with the desire a new language can be learned.  I have friends from Ukraine and they tell me they learned primary English in high school.  Some pursed it in college and some didn't. 

It is not uncommon for some to be able to understand and write English rather well, but it is another thing for them to be as good at spoken English.  But, if immersed in the spoken culture they will improve rapidly.  ie:  I have a friend from Kiev and in Kiev her spoken English was considered fluent.  Her gov job was dealing with western businesses.  When she came to the USA she immediately discovered it was not so fluent and throw in the slang and...poor girl was half lost.  Almost to tears.

I think a common language is important, which might be overcome but it takes alot of work and is doable.  Always remember, that women need to communicate much more than you do.   

[2tallbill]

somwhat  poijt acrioss   converse somone.
communcation lenght abilty marrage, intepreted coexiing pronounceated diont failry

I am only joking AJ, and wouldn't say this to someone else because I think you can take a joke......... but is this your Russian?