Do you ever wonder why learning Russian is close to impossible?

[Son of Clyde]

Funny thing about learning Russian. Apparently it is not impossible for some American's to learn. My wife's boss speaks the Russian language like a native. Of course she is a linguistic's professor at a major University.

My wife tries to teach me sentences and as soon as I have learned the second sentence I have forgotten the first one.

[OlgaH]

Indeed it would be great to get hold of some DVDs of Russian Children's shows, like the ones you posted Olga.

I think you can find the DVDs with Russian Street Sesame in DVD and book stores in Russia

http://www.golddisk.ru/goods/7997.html

[Caddydaddy]

Hi all,
This thread shows up just right in time, in 5 weeks I will find myself in Siberia...
Thanks those who provided the very interesting links to learn Russian language 
At least I want to be able to say:
Good Day
Good Bye
Thank you
I am looking for...

But Holy Cow I feel as dumb as a stone and I admire the Lady who speaks English so well...
http://www.russianlessons.net/lessons/lesson2_main.php
Learn Russian in 10 days??? Maybe in 10.000...
Looks like an electronic translator would be a good idea.

Regards
CaddyDaddy

[Andrew James]

I think you can find the DVDs with Russian Street Sesame in DVD and book stores in Russia

http://www.golddisk.ru/goods/7997.html

Many thanks OlgaH. Love the work you do here - sharing your considerable knowledge regarding the grand country that is Russia for free!

[SANDRO43]

Japanese characters and sentence structure do not resemble English or French, Russian can't be anymore difficult than Japanese. Also I am well into middle age so it's not because I have a young active mind.

I have studied both and Russian, while easier for us to read because its Cyrillic alphabet is phonetic rather than syllabic (Katakana) or logographic (Kanji), presents the difficulty of being a declensed language with 6 cases having different endings for its 3 genders (see http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Declensions_of_Nouns%2C_Pronouns%2C_Adjectives in the RWDpedia), rather than just adding a few suffixes (-wa, -ga, -no, etc.).

[Son of Clyde]

Some people have an aptitude for linguistics and others do not.

I know the English language pretty well and I have misspelled my name a few times.

Actually, I have to sign in and out of work and when I am in a hurry I can drop a letter or two.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro43 when I started taking Japanese (I'm going to take another semester of it in Jan.) the instructor, an older Japanese lady, told the class that Japanese is considered to be, for English speakers, one of the hardest languages in the world to learn.  This section from Wikipedia would seem to confirm that:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardest_language

Poker, I had a look at your reference:

The question (L2) will strongly depend on which is the learner's native language: the more closely related the second language, the easier its acquisition will be (all other things, such as teaching method, motivation, and availability of learning materials being equal). This "proximity" of the target language is not necessarily a function of genetic relationship but may also be polyphyletic, such as a chance similarity of phonology. Differences in phonology are often insurmountable for the learner, and will be apparent in an accent in non-native speakers even after many years of proficient use of the learned language. Acquisition of native phonology is also complete very early in children's language acquisition, before the age of one year: that is, what is the "easiest" part of language acquisition for infants (completed first) is the "hardest" part for adult learners (completed last, if ever).

It starts with a very obvious consideration (highlighted), followed by a not universally-true statement about adults and phonetics: the first thing I acquire in any foreign language I study is a good accent, which is probably due to my having a decent 'musical ear' (I sing in a choir). Mastery of the rest is basically a matter of prolonged practice and exposure.

According to a survey by the British Foreign Office among its diplomatic staff, the most difficult language to learn for adult English speakers is Hungarian, followed by Japanese.

Then it goes on to give Japanese rank no. 2, partially contradicting your teacher.

"The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages". Of the 63 languages analyzed, the 5 most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are: "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean", with Japanese being the most difficult.

Afterwards it contradicts itself, by first ranking Japanese 4th, then 1st . Since I also studied Arabic, I can assure you that it is much more difficult than Japanese, due to its structure and flexional system, for the native speaker of an Indo-European language such as English (and Italian, my own).

Personally, I rate Chinese as no. 1. It's the world's most ancient language, and some 5,000 years of continuous use have whittled down its words to monosyllables, its morphemic structure almost to nothing (plurals, verb forms, etc.)

I have some difficulty at figuring how the Chinese can even THINK, given such a worn-out tool, so good luck with it .

Anyway, just my 2 yuans' worth .

[SANDRO43]

Sandro43 got to agree with you about Arabic. I took a semester of that a couple of years ago and barely managed a C. The written form to me was virtually incomprehensible and physically writing it was difficult for me.

I took it for two years and, again, a matter of practice. Writing is very hard at first, particularly if you're right-handed as the majority of us is, but eventually one gets the hang of it. Anyway, in my opinion it's a beautiful script, nothing like that Hira/Kata-sh!ta, it's odd that the art-conscious Japanese should have come up with such a horrid-looking type of writing when the Far East abunds in elegant forms (I'm currently having a look at Thai and Tibetan), and no wonder that they reverted to Chinese characters eventually.

(what can I say I like math).

I implore you not to feel ashamed Poker-san, it's a very honourable subject, dozo gozai-mas .

[ScottinCrimea]

Judging by those on this forum who claim some fluency with Russian and the fact that I have picked it up fairly well, I wouldn't classify Russian as a relatively difficult language to learn.

 

[2tallbill]

Judging by those on this forum who claim some fluency with Russian and the fact that I have picked it up fairly well, I wouldn't classify Russian as a relatively difficult language to learn.

 

Well, I have a quite a bit of concrete between my ears, which might have
helped me in sports in my earlier years but hasn't helped me learning Russian.

Most people will gladly pay me NOT to sing. I find it very difficult. Some things
like gender being applied to things like a house (male) or a car (female) and
therefore changing the other words because of the gender for me are mind bending. 

[SANDRO43]

Some things like gender being applied to things like a house (male) or a car (female) and
therefore changing the other words because of the gender for me are mind bending.

That's because English still has a neuter gender, and dumps all inanimate nouns there. Latin languages lost it a long time ago, so we're quite used to 'sexying' everything .

[Ooooops]

Judging by those on this forum who claim some fluency with Russian and the fact that I have picked it up fairly well, I wouldn't classify Russian as a relatively difficult language to learn.

 

It's called deep immersion - you live in the country of this language that makes learning much-much easier.   

[SANDRO43]

It's called deep immersion

Also, swim or die .

[Ooooops]

Also, swim or die .

Exactly!   

[Vaughn]

Good news, you are in the process of learning and it will pay off.  My hat is off to you for putting in the effort!  Be consistent and you'll be rewarded.

Old quote from an old thread - but timeless nonetheless. I've noticed a few new members here who are
trying to master Russian words and phrases - and thought it appropriate to call attention to this thread.
In it are many links offered by Mendeleyev and others that are very useful - and Sandro has long ago
added much information here to the Wiki area (icon at upper right of RWD's homepage) called RWPedia.
While some may never be able to engage in deep conversation, simply reading a few signs can be a
valuable tool when in the FSU.

Useless you say? Tell us about that when you waltz into a stationary glass storefront door.

К СЕБЕ (pronounced keh seb-YEH) = "to yourself" = PULL

ОТ СЕБЯ (pronounced aht seb-YAH) = "from yourself" = PUSH

[SANDRO43]

Useless you say? Tell us about that when you waltz into a stationary glass storefront door.

Sometimes little memory tricks can help make meaning stick - in this case, I'd imagine addressing the door and be saying:

К СЕБЕ (pronounced keh seb-YEH) = "to yourself" = PULL

Kome (towards me)

ОТ СЕБЯ (pronounced aht seb-YAH) = "from yourself" = PUSH

OuT (you go)

 

[JR]

Do you ever wonder why learning Russian is close to impossible?

Because I lack the motivation?

[krimster]

Most of the people on this board don't really need to learn the entire language when just a few simple phrases will do, if you'll pardon my poor attempts at English phonetic translation

I want to buy...      ya ha-choo ku-peet
where         cu-dah
when                 kak-dah
why                 p'che-moh
who                 k'to
you                 teh
I                 ya
g'dyeh nash toylette   where is our toilette?
beer                 pivo
I don't know      yesnaya

You could probably make a "cheat sheet" like this maybe two pages long and after a short while you'd have it memorized.  The gender issue, I'd just ignore, sure you'd sound like an uncouth barbarian, but you'd still be understood, why memorize which noun is masculine or feminine just so you can say dvah or dvey?

With this vocabulary you won't have be able to have an intellectual conversation in Russian about the Whorf-Sapir semantic categorization hypothesis, but you're not likely to be in Ukraine for that reason to begin with.

 

[Son of Clyde]

krimster, you should become a science fiction writer. You are entertaining and you have an abstract mind. Either that or you can always remain the Don Rickles of RWD. 

[krimster]

The character "Krimster" is actually a dog sock puppet, part of a trio who play the banjo and perform magic tricks on various blogs.  Krimster's comedic style is "insult comedy" which he uses to underscore the various contradictions and insecurities that many middle-aged men display.

Krimster also is well known for having designed an automated feed pellet dispenser coupled to a small musical keyboard, which is used to train chickens to perform short melodies



 

[2tallbill]

That's because English still has a neuter gender, and dumps all inanimate nouns there. Latin languages lost it a long time ago, so we're quite used to 'sexying' everything .

Sandro, can you explain why RW who have genders for everything insist calling a mans
underwear panties?     drasnit

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, can you explain why RW who have genders for everything insist calling a mans underwear panties?    drasnit

No real idea, maybe Russian has just one word for both sexes?

In Italian we use mutande for both - often its diminutive form mutandine for women - the present participle of the Latin verb mutare (as in the expression mutatis mutandis), meaning something that has to be changed and acknowledging the 'impermanent' nature of the garment .

[rjd400]

This is a great thread...

I have to second using Pimsleur, I find it easy to learn (using the "conversational" CDs).  BUT, it's slow.  You really learn it, but you don't learn a lot given the time.

For vocabulary I came across something called "Linkword Languages".  Starts by using a "word association" method (you picture something in your native language that looks like the sound in Russian), but eventually you have the word ingrained.  Not so great for grammer, but it does build your vocabulary pretty quickly. 

Also, get Russian TV if it's available.  I've found just over the course of a few weeks, my ability to pick up words that I already know has increased significantly.  Enough so I can actually watch a show and pick up enough of what's going on not to be bored to death.  Probably just becoming more and more used to the "sound" of the language (which isn't always very realistic in teaching CD's).

Originally, I was only interested in learning conversational Russian, but on the advice of a tutor, I started learning to read it.  She was 100% correct, I don't think you could, seriously, learn the language without learning to read it.  Also helps the pronunciation part (easier to "see" the correct pronunciation then hear it sometimes).

My 2 cents.

[RussianWind]

If you say fast: "Yellow blue bus" some Russians will understand it as "I love you" be careful

I have a test question to Misha. What gender êîôå has? 

[Misha]

If you say fast: "Yellow blue bus" some Russians will understand it as "I love you" be careful

I have a test question to Misha. What gender êîôå has? 

Though at first glance you would think it is a neuter noun, it is actually a masculine noun. Hence "растворимый кофе."

Did I pass the test