What difference does age make?

[ambach123]

Some reality check.

As I stated the number of AM in this pursuit is down to about a fifth of what it was five years ago. Ask anyone who is in this business and they would tell you the same. I refer you to the GQ article and quotes from various sources in that article, especially from a Russian agency in Moscow that used to entertain five clients a day from USA, now they have five clients a month.

Why?

In the American system, the economic realities are well understood, especially by the yournger people, we grow up with the value and importance of money as our basic core value. In other words, Americans look at marriages as economic partnerships. The younger AM more so than the older generation.

I find it difficult to imagine a young AM going to FSU to find a wife. Most younger AM need a second income just to survive. In real world, that would never happen,  unless there was some reason that I would find hard to understand. They marry here, if nothing else but for economic reasons and their own kind.

There is no younger AM who would give up a second income by marrying a RW, he just could not survive, big love, little love or no love, you can't survive on love, the landlord does not take love for payments.

The girls in FSU clearly know what they are looking for, and that is someone with money. Younger people have none.

I run a wedding related business, I deal with people in their twenties, and thirties and have been doing so for ten years. I can't remember when was the last time I met a couple that was either not broke, or close to it. In almost all cases both worked. And you guessed it almost all pay by credit cards, on borrowed money.

I would love to say that RW can find a rich AM who is young, that is not going to happen, not in this lifetime, only in dreamland.

In the final analysis, this is an economic exchange, in which the rich AM  and younger RW exchange their wishes. Of course there are a lot of AM and RW don't like it, but that is the reality, and to refuse to accept it would be incredibly naive.

It was not always so to the extent that it is now, and that is why the vast majority of AM have either bailed out of this pursuit or will do so in a short order after looking into it.

Almost everyone will tell you, like I have been told, if you don't have plenty of money, don't waste your time; age for the most is secondary if matters at all to these women.

Please note, I don't make value judgments in life of what is right or wrong, that is irrelevant; I state only my observations.

[Jazzyclassy]

Ambach that is your experience and your vision of this matter it is normal

As for me I have been expressing my opposite opinion for ages here on this forum

      The girls in FSU clearly know what they are looking for, and that is someone with money. Younger people have none.
   

that means those girls are looking not for love but for marriage of convenience , and you call it all love and commitment one more time and you call it the greatest value? No need to mess around with people's values, those people who's values are based on money then , I am just refusing to talk about this matter with them as it is useless for them to understand my point of view, cos I have the other values

  I would love to say that RW can find a rich AM who is young, that is not going to happen, not in this lifetime, only in dreamland.

   

I disagree , there are some couples who are equally the same age and they are happy, plus this word you always use business , business , business. If that is a business for you then what are we talking about here 

For you , americans it is all about business , you are ready to make money on everything ......

I do not know maybe at some point you got your own reasons to express what you have stated above , but not everybody will agree with you , at least me  and that is already something!

I am not denying that it is going to be tough for a younger couple , but they can do it and can cope and overcome all the money problems, does it really matter? if they got real love to hold on to!

[Serebro]

I would love to say that RW can find a rich AM who is young, that is not going to happen, not in this lifetime, only in dreamland.

why do you think that all RW dream of finding  rich men...

the whole post written by you says:women want rich men but young men don't have money....so you shouldn't waste your time by writing to young men as they will never come anyway, so better write to older men because they have money....


Writing this you have to admit that consciously or unconsciously you find the fact that it's normal for a woman to look for money but not love. So why does the whole forum discuss scammers and red flags then?!
According to your logic these women aren't scammers they just check your financial condition like if you can afford buying this $500 dress for her:D

[KenC]

Ambach that is your experience and your vision of this matter it is normal

As for me I have been expressing my opposite opinion for ages here on this forum

that means those girls are looking not for love but for marriage of convenience , and you call it all love and commitment one more time and you call it the greatest value? No need to mess around with people's values, those people who's values are based on money then , I am just refusing to talk about this matter with them as it is useless for them to understand my point of view, cos I have the other values

 

I disagree , there are some couples who are equally the same age and they are happy, plus this word you always use business , business , business. If that is a business for you then what are we talking about here 

For you , americans it is all about business , you are ready to make money on everything ......

I do not know maybe at some point you got your own reasons to express what you have stated above , but not everybody will agree with you , at least me  and that is already something!

I am not denying that it is going to be tough for a younger couple , but they can do it and can cope and overcome all the money problems, does it really matter? if they got real love to hold on to!

So "real love" is exclusive to those of similar ages?

If "real love" can help a young couple overcome financial difficulties, why cannot "true love" help an age gap couple overcome their potential difficulties?
KenC

[BC]

So "real love" is exclusive to those of similar ages?

If "real love" can help a young couple overcome financial difficulties, why cannot "true love" help an age gap couple overcome their potential difficulties?
KenC

It must otherwise the relationship will fail.  For those involved in such relationships (including myself) the true challenges lie well ahead.

[Gator]

Ambach, I think many older men come to FSU with these thoughts in mind but in this case they shouldn't complain about younger girls using them for money - as it is as you said an exchange, and nothing more then that. But you can't call it a normal relationship, can you?

Great post.  Succinct and says it all.  Such men have no basis for complaining even if she leaves him.  If one makes a risky, quick decision, one must be willing to accept the possible downside consequences.

[Gator]

why do you think that all RW dream of finding  rich men...

Ambach,

I agree with Serebro that this is not about finding a rich husband. That would be like men choosing a woman only because she is beautiful.  Hopefully none of us are that shallow.  If they are, they deserve what they get.

[ambach123]

Gator, I have already said, I have no opinions as to what is right or wrong, or what should happen. I only state my observations, and you can argue that my observations are not correct, and I am fine with that.
The fact that almost 80% of AM who get into this have already quit or will quit speaks for itself.

Also almost all of the agencies have told me that unless you have plenty of money, don't waste your time. You may dislike them, however I tend to believe that they would not leave money on table from someone unless they believe that they can't help him.

You can also argue that the girls who go to agencies are different, I don't think so, they are the same.

I think problems lie on our side of the pond, with the AM, many of whom refuse to understand that this is a very expensive venture. Women have always looked for better socioeconomic status in every culture, why is RW different?

[Gator]

Take a look at the population of this forum  99% of it are couples with big ages gapes , I think maybe only few couples are equal, so think for yourself

There you go again, not referring to facts.  If you examine the archives for polls, you will discover the following for 58 married couples at RWD:

Age Gap   Percentage of Total

< 5 years                      10%    
6-10                            12%
11-15                           24%
16-20                           30%
21-25                           15%
26+                               9%

Yes, the disparity between ages is large, but 99% have "big" gap?

This thread raised more issues than age gap.  One was that young RW are not ready for marriage, being too emotional and not sure of what they want.   If you were not already married, I would say that you are an example of the OP's point.

[Gator]

Gator, I have already said, I have no opinions as to what is right or wrong, or what should happen. I only state my observations.
The fact that almost 80% of AM who get into this have already quit or will quit speaks for itself.

Understandable.  However, did these 80% quit because of lack of money?

Or perhaps they decided not to take the added risk inherent in marrying a RW? 

Or perhaps they did not have enough of the right stuff, other than money, to attract the younger RW they wanted?

Or perhaps they gave up because the only RW they encountered were similar to an unnamed few we see here?

[Jazzyclassy]

There you go again, not referring to facts.  If you examine the archives for polls, you will discover the following for 58 married couples at RWD:

Age Gap   Percentage of Total

< 5 years                      10%    
6-10                            12%
11-15                           24%
16-20                           30%
21-25                           15%
26+                               9%

Yes, the disparity between ages is large, but 99% have "big" gap?

This thread raised more issues than age gap.  One was that young RW are not ready for marriage, being too emotional and not sure of what they want.   If you were not already married, I would say that you are an example of the OP's point.

what does that mean OP ? 

you just always  like to point out my or the others people's emotions, is that bad? or what

The fact that am emotional did not make me stupid or what so ever

I am sure of what I want

and I surely do not need business -love

And why you assume that young girls do not know what they want, in vain, those who marry old people exactly know what they want ...........

[Jazzyclassy]

what I can agree with Ambach about is that this phenomenon with western-eastern relations will soon come to some end but not cos of money, cos it is not exactly so mysterious and is not so unique and is not that extraordinary , it is normal like you marry your own culture person plus I think people already mixed within cultures so much and they do not think it is so much of an exclusive thing. Well not cos it is getting bored or something,  cos it is just takes much more emotional efforts and much more patience to charm eastern women, that is I think the most important thing as well, and not all men are ready to sacrifice their friends, family and so on for the sake of russian woman.

Also western women are not silly they will start improving and become caring, loving, house settling and so on. This will make them change and they wont let their men go to some other countries in search of wives

I mean I do not think it will end completely but it wont have such a massive character, wont be so widely spread anymore, like it is now.

[BC]

Understandable.  However, did these 80% quit because of lack of money?

Or perhaps they decided not to take the added risk inherent in marrying a RW? 

Or perhaps they did not have enough of the right stuff, other than money, to attract the younger RW they wanted?

Or perhaps they gave up because the only RW they encountered were similar to an unnamed few we see here?

My tip... click all the above.

If they did drop out before they booked their first flight they were probably smart.

[Faux Pas]

Gator, I have already said, I have no opinions as to what is right or wrong, or what should happen. I only state my observations, and you can argue that my observations are not correct, and I am fine with that.
The fact that almost 80% of AM who get into this have already quit or will quit speaks for itself.

Also almost all of the agencies have told me that unless you have plenty of money, don't waste your time. You may dislike them, however I tend to believe that they would not leave money on table from someone unless they believe that they can't help him.

You can also argue that the girls who go to agencies are different, I don't think so, they are the same.

I think problems lie on our side of the pond, with the AM, many of whom refuse to understand that this is a very expensive venture. Women have always looked for better socioeconomic status in every culture, why is RW different?

Ambach,

Just on the basis of your statement alone I would think your 80% number is skewed. The agencies you are citing would need to complete some serious follow up to offer such a number. I offer no evidence or proof only my personal situation. When I first wandered into this RW experience I joined several agencies, made contact with a number of women.

I was sucked into that money black hole for letters, addresses, contact info, flowers, candy ect.. For various reasons none of them worked out. I was at that time thinking this wasn't for me as it took much more time than I had available as well I wasn't sure how I felt about the whole MOB concept. I shelfed the idea for almost two years. During that entire time up until now, not one agency has contacted me for any kind of information other than hoping I'll sign up again. In fact most still consider me a member as they continue to flood me with more profiles.

My second time around I went the introduction route procuring the contact information immediately and contacted them myself. I recognized the agencies for the money pit most of them are and decided if I couldn't do this without them I just wouldn't do it. As it turns out, they are not necessary for me but, I guess they are for others as many continue to stay in business. I don't see how agencies could possibly know how many matches they made other than a very uneducated guess.

[Misha]

There is no younger AM who would give up a second income by marrying a RW, he just could not survive, big love, little love or no love, you can't survive on love, the landlord does not take love for payments.

The girls in FSU clearly know what they are looking for, and that is someone with money. Younger people have none.

Almost everyone will tell you, like I have been told, if you don't have plenty of money, don't waste your time; age for the most is secondary if matters at all to these women.

This is a bit too sweeping of a generalization for my tastes. It is influenced IMHO by the source of your information: agencies. I can't really comment on AM but I will relate my experience with regards to Canadian men that I have met recently married to Russian women.

Both were young (<30) and had married women after spending an extended period of time in Russia. Neither were rich. In one case, the guy warned his wife that life would be difficult and she would have to work. She ended up finding a job within a couple of months of arriving in Canada and they rent an apartment. In the other case, the guy is a student and is far from rich. In both cases, they married women who were not in agencies and interesting enough married women a few years older than them.

As for me, I am in my late thirties. Also, not rich. Spent very little on my wife when dating. She would likely have been happier staying in Russia, but she is one of these women who married for love. As we are in Canada and she does not have to wait 2 years, she could leave me at any time if she just wanted to gain access to permanent residence in Canada. She does not seem to be packing her bags LOL.

The three of us shared one thing in common: we spent an extended period of time in Russia, we learned the language and we could meet women who were not in any way affiliated with agencies. 

[Catman]

I live in the province of Manitoba, Canada and my experiences make me believe it is less risky for me to marry a RW than a Canadian woman. I will have to be reasonable and say there must be some good girls here of course. I have been to Ukraine twice and as I have read here once you are bitten by the RW charm there is no going back. With myself this is so true. Yes it is expensive to go the RW route but in my case I will find my RW love or will be a bachelor. I have been through enough here. Money is just money. Can't take it with you when you die. I don't want to end up as a very old bachelor with the family pretending to like you but really just waiting for you to kick it so they can dance on your grave. I could go on and on about my reasons but don't want to bash the women in my country. Like the saying says "If you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all". I wish to find a RW in the age gap no greater than 12 years.
A friend phoned me from Alberta where the oil boom is on. He said the men there are flying all over the world to look for wives as the men in Alberta province greatly out number the women because of the huge demand for workers and men from all over the country flocking to Alberta for high paying jobs.
If there is a decline in AM searching for RW maybe it is because they are tired of all the scams and are looking elsewhere like Asian countries. I have two friends who are looking in the Asian countries because they think they have a better chance to find true love.

[mspanky]

Expensive venture yes! But if you marry a young woman who is in it for economical gains you will always lose in the long run. She will come live here and eventually meet men with much larger incomes than you have.

   I have a very good friend who married a latina over 10 years ago. The girl was a knockout 19 year old. She was pretty impressed with his BMW and his house back then. Now she's a nurse and hangs out with other young girls who date very rich plastic surgeons living in mansions. She admires money and lifestyle alot and word is she has affairs and stays out late. He refuses to believe it. But I think the only reason she has not been snagged by one of the "rich men" she so admires is that she brings the baggage of 2 little children with her.

 Remember there will always be someone younger,smarter,better looking and RICHER! So love better be very deep from the beginning in order for her not to want to trade -up. Otherwise you better have tons of cash.

   Every young woman dreams of a successful and handsome husband not much older than herself. Once she begins to persue much older men, she either has deep daddy issues or she has decided to make money her main priority when looking for a relationship. Either way both of these types are not healthy for relationships.

Gator, I have already said, I have no opinions as to what is right or wrong, or what should happen. I only state my observations, and you can argue that my observations are not correct, and I am fine with that.
The fact that almost 80% of AM who get into this have already quit or will quit speaks for itself.

Also almost all of the agencies have told me that unless you have plenty of money, don't waste your time. You may dislike them, however I tend to believe that they would not leave money on table from someone unless they believe that they can't help him.

You can also argue that the girls who go to agencies are different, I don't think so, they are the same.

I think problems lie on our side of the pond, with the AM, many of whom refuse to understand that this is a very expensive venture. Women have always looked for better socioeconomic status in every culture, why is RW different?

[ambach123]

I admit, these are my observations and I don't claim to be right.

I have been influenced greatly by the GQ article, which I believe is as accurate a description as it gets for this pursuit.
I have also been influenced by several agencies in Kiev, with whom I talked to personally. Also my comments are only as they apply to Americans, I have no knowledge of conditions in other countries.

First of all, we live in a society in which money is the central core to our system. I have no apologies for the system, I actually like it,  and those who don't understand it should not be thinking of moving here.

That said somethings have happened in the past five years that has made once thriving business go bust.

The economic conditions in FSU improved during this period of time.

The conditions in USA for middle class worsened. The rich became richer, our savings rate as of now is -5%, meaning an average family spends 5% more than it earns. About 76% of all Americans are in debt, many very deeply, they have negative net worth, meaning they owe more than they have. A very foundation of our system is two income families; without the second incomes most familites would not survive.

I find it hard to understand why a AM in twenties or thirties would be interested in this pursuit, and how do they plan to pull this off financially.
A man in forties usually has child support or alimony to pay and he is not any better off financially.

So there are AM ages 50 or beyond, some with money and some without money, those who don't have much money usually quit once they find out how much it would cost.

For the RW, she has three choices.

1. Keep hoping that a younger AM with or without money would show up, I think chances of this happening successfully are slim to none.

2. They can quit this pursuit and look in their own country.

3. Accept what is offered, older men with or without money. There was a time when just your American passport would do, those days are gone. Now the RW want some tangible evidence that you can support them. The bottom line, the marketplace and the individuals decide what is offered at the price it is offered is worth it.

I also refer you to the following website http://www.delphania.com/  .

It may sound like cold analysis, and I apologize for that but I am very realistic and don't live in a dreamworld.

For the record, almost everyone advised me that an AM should not marry anyone younger than 28 regardless of the age of the AM.

[roykirk]

About 76% of all Americans are in debt, many very deeply, they have negative net worth, meaning they owe more than they have.

This is just too much of a generalization and the very definition of "debt" makes statistics like this worthless.  Are you saying that 76% of Americans owe more than they have?  Do they owe more than they make?  I owe $8,000 on my car...it's the only thing I owe money on, yet I fall in the $50K-$75K income range...but by the most general definition, I'd imagine you'd say I was "in debt."  Technically, I am.  I have no kids, I don't have to pay my ex a thing, and I'll be making my third trip in as many months to the FSU very shortly.  It costs me $1200 for a roundtrip ticket to Russia, my next trip is free since I found frequent flier miles to use.  I'll stay in a $40 a night apartment that's pretty decent.  It's not like it's exactly a bank-breaking proposition to participate in this venture, nor is the entire middle class of America in bankruptcy.  Things certainly suck under our current regime, but it's not the end of the world...yet.  We'll have to wait until the next election to find out.

[groovlstk]

This is just too much of a generalization and the very definition of "debt" makes statistics like this worthless. 

Generalizations like these also fail to explain what portion of these folks are in debt simply because they have a mortgage. With most terms running 15-30 years, I'm guessing that many homeowners who have no problem paying their mortgage and other bills are lumped into this scary group of profligate spenders.

[saturn11]

WoW! The crap is getting deep on this one! But some of you guys are forgetting some other important factors and few important points to repeat.
1) Many American men (including normal decent men with good jobs) go to Ukraine to meet a more family-oriented, more devoted, more faithful, less materialistic woman than they can typically find in the USA. And this is men of all ages.
Men in America are tired of babying princesses who want to be spoiled at every turn.
2) It is not typical to see an American or European man from the ages of 21 - 35 in Ukraine looking for a wife, because they simply do not have the money or time for such a risky long-distance venture. At home, a relationship fails, and you get up the next morning and try to begin again and hope for the best. Travelling to Ukraine, you have large airfare costs, translator fees, and if your a newbie - your likely getting sucked into the flower / fancy restaurant vacuum, at least for a while until you know better or learn the hard way.
3) If you are good guy, with good intentions, and you have taken care of your health, and are not a bum, you can find some of the most wonderful women in the world in Ukraine.
4) The age gap is what you make it. Look around, and ask around in Ukraine, and you will see that large age gaps are NOT the norm, but they DO happen, and many times ARE successful.
5) Unfortunately, there are a few individuals here that monopolize the threads with their opinions, and many of the men here are married to or are looking for a younger wife, and nothing wrong with that if you can achieve it, and if you can make it a lifelong success.
6) I went to Ukraine with a friend who was 30, from Italy, had a decent job, and good-looking, and we both dated a 23 year old cutie, who was very modest, never spent any big money on her, in fact she was happy with a green tea at a local cafe, and we both dated her (I am 40 and she knew this). She said in her profile that she was looking for a good man to marry up to 35, yet she chose me. Why? Because I was closer? NO Because I am rich or richer? NO, I am typical middle class guy with good job. She said she chose me because she was more physically attracted to me and my personality. So what does that prove? That anything can happen, but we always still need to keep it real to minimize our losses....

[groovlstk]

She said in her profile that she was looking for a good man to marry up to 35, yet she chose me. Why? Because I was closer? NO Because I am rich or richer? NO, I am typical middle class guy with good job. She said she chose me because she was more physically attracted to me and my personality. So what does that prove? That anything can happen, but we always still need to keep it real to minimize our losses....

Are you married to this girl? If so, for how long?

[Misha]

WoW! The crap is getting deep on this one! But some of you guys are forgetting some other important factors and few important points to repeat.
1) Many American men (including normal decent men with good jobs) go to Ukraine to meet a more family-oriented, more devoted, more faithful, less materialistic woman than they can typically find in the USA. And this is men of all ages.
Men in America are tired of babying princesses who want to be spoiled at every turn.

This is a point that is often discussed. However, the question is whether such women are common in agencies. Usually, the more family-oriented and devoted women in Russia tend to marry early and won't necessarily look to agencies as a means of getting a husband. It seems to me that the "traditional" woman that is marketed by the agencies is simply a justification to be used by some men who are really looking for somebody younger and more attractive than they could find at home.

[BillyB]

6) I went to Ukraine with a friend who was 30, from Italy, had a decent job, and good-looking, and we both dated a 23 year old cutie, who was very modest, never spent any big money on her, in fact she was happy with a green tea at a local cafe, and we both dated her (I am 40 and she knew this).

I'm confused Saturn. Your profile is saying you're a female.


I've looked at exclusively American and Russian dating sites and RW, on average, are more open to dating someone much older from their homeland than their Western sisters.

Besides the need for support, some women want to date a man she can learn from and who she doesn't need to babysit. I've seen 18 yo women look for 18-20 men and most likely will someday later look for older men when they get tired of the party boys.

One 19 yo RW came on one of the forums and her profile said she was looking for a man 30 yo and up. Her reasoning is that she doesn't find young men mature enough. Good looks and youth isn't everything.

Besides the risk in marrying young women, there are risks marrying older women too. If one has been divorced in the past which has likely happened among older women, there is a much higher chance they will divorce again. Men aren't immune to this either. 50% of the marriages fail the first go around in America, 70% fail the second go around, and 90% fail the third go around. In Russia, marriage fails 69% the first go around. Maybe some RW understand the poor odds for success and don't want to marry an immature boy who's yet to make something out of himself and thus some RW are open to large age gaps?

Some men/women aren't cut out for marriage. If you date a person who was once divorced, take a closer look at him/her before marrying.

[Faux Pas]

This is a point that is often discussed. However, the question is whether such women are common in agencies. Usually, the more family-oriented and devoted women in Russia tend to marry early and won't necessarily look to agencies as a means of getting a husband. It seems to me that the "traditional" woman that is marketed by the agencies is simply a justification to be used by some men who are really looking for somebody younger and more attractive than they could find at home.

gabaub

Some of those "more family-oriented and devoted women in Russia" are also the products of divorce, some of their choosing and others not. Good women are available in most places including the US. I honestly do not know what the make-up of the agencies are. But I am willing to gamble that there is a good cross section of both wonderful women and some with nefarious intention. I searched for a woman closer to my age for several reasons but attraction and compatibility being foremost. I can't speak for the younger guys because I certainly no longer fall in that category. What I can speak for is myself (mid-40's) and the pool of decent, good intentioned, attractive and available women in this age group in America has dwindled leaps and bounds,if it ever existed at all.