New letters, new ladies.

[Catman]

Good advice from Billy B

[Ronnie]

Phantom,
You will find that writing can be counterproductive.  She will think she is the only one you're writing and when she finds out it's not the case will see you as a two-timer or worse.  We tend to call those who write many..scammers.  It's not fair but it's the reality.

I have said before, that the agency personnel will be happy to arrange meetings once you arrive.  I remember seeing a gal who looked good in her pictures, her profile said she was a non-smoker and I insisted on meeting her.  The agency dutifully complied though they did not include her on their list  of recommendations. 
When I got the Da Vinci bar in Dnepr where we were scheduled to meet I saw her but felt sure there must have been a mistake.  Her photos were obviously touched up (or way out of date) and by her voice and skin color I could see she was a heavy smoker.  We made a little small talk and then I asked her in a non-accusing, matter of fact way, "you smoke?" "Da" 

When we finished our tea and cake, I thanked her for the nice conversation and could I get her a taxi.  I later indicated to the agency that she would have been pleasant to be with were it not for the smoking and the fact she falsely represented that she was a non-smoker.  "Ronnie," they said, "almost all of the women in Ukraine smoke socially, but the know most American's don't accept it so they lie about it."

Sorry for the personal story, but I can't emphasize strongly enough that through long experience, I resolved that writing was not only useless but counter-productive. 

Humour me and I give one more short experience.  On one trip I resolved to meet several ladies in Poltava.  I wrote to them 3 or 4 letter each and through the agency set up appointments.  I was open and honest about what I was doing but the fact that I had not chosen them even before meeting them, they were offended and listed me as not serious.  It's a shame because one of those and I really hit it off. We had both lived in Italy and so we had fun mixing Italian with

Russian and understanding each other perfectly.  She was more attractive and engaging than I could tell from her photos.  She made great eye contact.  But when I told her I wanted to meet her again but after a certain time because of a previously arranged appointment, she agreed but cancelled the next morning, citing my other meetings as the reason.  Each lady did the same except for the one who had no prior knowledge of my coming.

My wife and I never corresponded before we met.  The agency arranged our meeting and she was among perhaps twenty meetings that week.
   

[HazyKnight]

I was open and honest about what I was doing but the fact that I had not chosen them even before meeting them, they were offended and listed me as not serious.

So let me understand this correctly. Because you didn't choose one, and the rest knew about it, they all essentially said "no" to you. Is this because they began to think that because you hadn't choosen any, you were a potential "sex tourist?"

Ronnie," they said, "almost all of the women in Ukraine smoke socially, but the know most American's don't accept it so they lie about it."

Can this same statement be applied to Russia as well? Anyone have any ideas on how many out of 10 smoke? I disgust smoking, but its their choice. My X-RW didn't smoke, looks like I was lucky.

[Misha]

Anyone have any ideas on how many out of 10 smoke?

30% of RW women smoke regularly according to The Moscow Times as do 60% of Russian men.

[Ronnie]

30% of RW women smoke regularly according to The Moscow Times as do 60% of Russian men.

I think 30% is low.  It's kinda like the survey I read where men admit to having had an average of 6 different sex partners, while women admit to 3.  Logically each time a man has a new partner, it is also, by definition, a new partner for the woman.  Therefore, either the men exaggerate, the women lie, or a combination of each.

So let me understand this correctly. Because you didn't choose one, and the rest knew about it, they all essentially said "no" to you. Is this because they began to think that because you hadn't choosen any, you were a potential "sex tourist?"

I don't think so, the agency owner explained to me that RW are very jealous and proud and would rather not be in the race than face the humiliating prospect of not being the victor.

When my wife was in her embassy interview the jerk AW spinster interviewer asked my wife how it felt to be my second choice, seeing she was my second K-1.  No wonder she didn't want me present at the window.

[Misha]

I think 30% is low.  It's kinda like the survey I read where men admit to having had an average of 6 different sex partners, while women admit to 3.  Logically each time a man has a new partner, it is also, by definition, a new partner for the woman.  Therefore, either the men exaggerate, the women lie, or a combination of each.

The key word was "regularly." The women who will have an occasional cigarette with friends at a bar would probably push that number way up.

[mac1165]

Guys.  Get yourselves to the FSU or forget the whole enterprise!

I wholeheartedly agree.  I recommend that our clients spend no more than 2 - 3 months writing and calling.  Then, it's time to get moving. By and large, the ladies will be impressed with your commitment and know that you are serious. The long letter writing campaigns are over. 

[Faux Pas]

Well it just goes to show that for all the different men in this pursuit there are just as many methods. All wrought with success and failure. Maybe I was just lucky, who knows. I signed up with EM after avoiding it for sometime. I thought it was over priced and the success rate couldn't be any better or worse than a couple of other agency sites I had joined.

Instantly after posting my profile I found out I was wrong. My first day I sent maybe 15 EOI's and the next day 10-12 had responded, most of them positively. I also received emails from ladies whom I didn't send an EOI to. I did the juggling, of at one point emails with at least 20 different women and quite honestly it was more work than I cared to get involved with.

I quickly decided to narrow the field by looking much deeper at the profiles than the photos and surface. Common interests, educated and closer to my age. At that point I was about 4 weeks into it and narrowed the field to 5 different ladies. At this point I had exchanged many emails with them all and had spoken to all but one the phone. Those, I had spoken to several times. Over the next 6-8 weeks it was becoming obvious to me that only one of them really peaked my interest. By this time, emails were maybe once or twice a week and the calls were 4-6 times a week.

I was continually receiving mail at EM's but didn't open or respond to them and after 2.5-3 months I was sure that I had found one woman I really wanted to meet and told her so. She seemed a little shocked when I brought it up. In fact I didn't really like nor was encouraged by her response. I said to myself I wouldn't contact her any further and the ball was in her court. After 3 days she resumed the emails with nothing but encouragement to visit and also apologies for her reaction for which she gave very understandable reason for it.

I immediately started planning all the while continuing to communicate and went to visit. From the first time I spoke to her on the phone I felt this is a person I could talk to for hours and I did. A very interesting, smart woman and just a good person. Her pictures showed her to be very attractive, all snapshots, some staged and some not. None were doctored.

From the moment I met her in person I saw she was exactly like her photos and after the first 30 minutes of talking I found out she was the interesting intellectual with a great sense of humor I had given her credit for. We spent a week together enjoying each other's company immensely. Feeling confident we both wish to pursue and see where this relationship can go, we parted looking forward to the next visit.

I only mention all of that because it is a WOVO success story even if the relationship falters somewhere down the line. I searched many, went through a long narrowing down process to the lady I felt sure was exactly as she portrayed and as I had conjured in my mind and in fact she was. There was no deception from either of us. Just two people who really enjoyed each other before and after meeting. It was no one week wonder. No talks of love, visa's or future together but learning the information that can only be obtained face to face. Also, looking forward to meeting again. FWIW

[jj]

Phantom- I would telephone your ladies of interest by freecall.com or skype, starting with the one that interests you most .   You can learn a little more about them, as well as how you will communicate with each other.  After a few months. get on the jet  and visit the one that interests you most, and  you connect with the best.  But, have a back up plan with another choice , so not to waste each others time if #1 doesn't work out.   I was fortunate that I didn't need my backup plan, but still had to prove to my now wife that I was not a key board romeo and was looking for the right person to connect to.  Increasing the age like you said is also a good idea also. Good luck! -jj

[Catman]

jj, exactly how did you arrange the backup plan. You went to meet your favorite and in case that didn't work out, you told another girl of interest what? That you are going to FSU and might visit her? You are going to FSU but are going to be a tourist for a week first and then visit her? I've read here that a RW will see right away if you are lying. Did you tell favorite #2 that you will be away for awhile and that is why you won't be e-mailing her for the two weeks that you are really in FSU checking out favorite #1? I'm curious to know how guys juggle the backup plans.

[HazyKnight]

jj, exactly how did you arrange the backup plan. You went to meet your favorite and in case that didn't work out, you told another girl of interest what? That you are going to FSU and might visit her? You are going to FSU but are going to be a tourist for a week first and then visit her? I've read here that a RW will see right away if you are lying. Did you tell favorite #2 that you will be away for awhile and that is why you won't be e-mailing her for the two weeks that you are really in FSU checking out favorite #1? I'm curious to know how guys juggle the backup plans.

When I did that, I couldn't juggle it. I couldn't lie. I told #2 about #1, and she was ok with that. Eventually I told #2 goodbye, but now I'll never know. It was a mistake I regret. So to me, if you need to lie, do it, because you may regret missing #2. You can always email her from FSU when you're there, just have to be sneaky.

[Ronnie]

jj, exactly how did you arrange the backup plan. You went to meet your favorite and in case that didn't work out, you told another girl of interest what? That you are going to FSU and might visit her? You are going to FSU but are going to be a tourist for a week first and then visit her? I've read here that a RW will see right away if you are lying. Did you tell favorite #2 that you will be away for awhile and that is why you won't be e-mailing her for the two weeks that you are really in FSU checking out favorite #1? I'm curious to know how guys juggle the backup plans.

This is exactly why writing ahead of time is counter productive...  Just go.  Only the agency needs to know you're coming.

[2tallbill]

Backup .........

[jj]

I went to meet Marina,  to enjoy myself, learn about the area, and spend as much time as I could with her to get to know her, and see if we showed some compatibilty. I worked out just fine.  I was lucky.  But if she showed no interest,  a local agency that also had Marina was in the city and I would have asked them if I could meet another lady.  But Marina was the perfect host and we enjoyed each others company.  I am was not comfortable with juggling more than one at a time. I But I am just saying use what system works for you.

[alantodd]

Phantom,

There are some women who do not like writing a lot of letters and want face to face meeting.  More and more women want face to face meeting rather than letters and phone.  Times are changing.  When you visit look in the airports there filled with foreign men.  These women receive so many letters and have so many men calling them its the one who shows up in person and catches her eye who wins. 

Get on a plane and see several women.  Odds are if you are a good catch for a women you will find mutual love in 10 days. 

[Lit_1nce]

I'm not much of a poet.. but why not ?

Untitled --

I found her on a Winters day
Her interest sent divine
My email reply was quick away
I had to make her mine

I wrote of love and future plan
And yearned to know her life
I said that I would be her man
and wished to find a wife

As Spring passed by I wrote my one
That we were truly matched
Hundreds of emails we have done
Our hearts must be attached

I phoned her once as was her choice
And talked the time away
It was so nice to hear her voice
Of that I surely say

The Summers heat we both endured
And suffered in separate lands
Of this I am assured
Our fate was in our hands

This was the time I do believe
That change was in the night
For although my gifts she did receive
Something did not seem right

The Fall it came upon us fast
And things they went awry
I guess our love was not to last
She'd found another guy

This other man he was insane
He did not know his place
It seems he'd gotten on a plane
and met her face to face

Because this man he took a chance
And makes me want to damn her
I wish them ill in their romance
And think she is a scammer


  PS.. not my story

[Ronnie]

I'm not much of a poet.. but why not ?

Untitled --

I found her on a Winters day
Her interest sent divine
My email reply was quick away
I had to make her mine

I wrote of love and future plan
And yearned to know her life
I said that I would be her man
and wished to find a wife

As Spring passed by I wrote my one
That we were truly matched
Hundreds of emails we have done
Our hearts must be attached

I phoned her once as was her choice
And talked the time away
It was so nice to hear her voice
Of that I surely say

The Summers heat we both endured
And suffered in separate lands
Of this I am assured
Our fate was in our hands

This was the time I do believe
That change was in the night
For although my gifts she did receive
Something did not seem right

The Fall it came upon us fast
And things they went awry
I guess our love was not to last
She'd found another guy

This other man he was insane
He did not know his place
It seems he'd gotten on a plane
and met her face to face

Because this man he took a chance
And makes me want to damn her
I wish them ill in their romance
And think she is a scammer


  PS.. not my story

Bravo! 

PS...Alan..I can't agree that you can find "love" in 10 days, especially on your first trip.  It takes a little time to get used to the culture and gather your thoughts and emotions.  First trip is to break the ice, second trip might produce some results.

[phantom]

What kind shirt/uniform is this?

[Pike]

 Totally Agree

Phantom, here's what I did when a RW asked me to visit on the first letter. She modeled in Europe and was a top woman from every agency she was at so I understood she's flooded with keyboard romeos and flakes. I told her I appreciated her invitation but I will not visit her just because she's beautiful. I told her I've have the time and finances to visit Russia but I need to know more about her as a person and I need at least one month's correspondence through phone and letters before I commit to any RW. I let her know that I understand she has many men writing her but I too am writing many RW and I will visit the one that gives me the most effort.

- - - - - - -

Totally Disagree

Writing is not only a waste of time and money in most cases for the lady but also for the man.
Some ladies have taken the position..."Okay, here's my profile, if you're interested I'll consider meeting you IF you come here...otherwise, don't waste my time."

- - - - - -

Sure it’s easy for women to take the second position.  We men would like to be in that position also.

[Ronnie]

Pike, I didn't follow you as well as I might but you seem to be saying that you don't agree that women should take the position that they won't spend time, effort, money and emotion on someone who isn't coming to their country..  Are you saying their wrong? What's the connection with men who'd like to be in that position..  RW can't come here..only the men can go there.  What am I missing in your post that you wanted to say?

Further, lest we forget good old Donna from RWG.  She baldly proclaimed that she knew what men wanted to hear so that's what she told them and wrote them.  Tell me again how writing does any real good.

You mentioned that you wanted to know them before "committing" to them.  What did you mean?  Is traveling a commitment.  If it is, it shouldn't be.  When you travel to the FSU you are doing it for one purpose that is to "find" a suitable partner... It can't be seen as a commitment on any level...just an indication of your interest. 

[dneid]

That is a very serious quote Groove, and one that all newbies who think they are in love before meeting a girl should take to heart.  Chances are good that you WON'T fall in love with the first girl you go visit.  So plan on making many trips if you are a write one, visit one kind of guy.

BTW-- I was at the beginning.  Like Groove, I found myself with one girl for a week.  But in an hour of meeting her, I was counting the hours until I could escape.

So I evolved into a write many a few letters and go an meet many kind of guy.   When I met my wife, I was on a trip where I met 8 girls I had been writing to.   Met her, had chemistry, and did a visit one trip to her the next time.  That is what finally worked for me.

Hey, Guys,
I haven't finished the thread yet, but felt compelled to post to Simoni's response.  I started life here as a WOVO kind of guy.  Never got to the actual trip part of a WOVO scenario.  I consider myself a "quasi-newbie" with one trip under my belt.  This first trip was a W3V3 trip and I am glad I did at least that.  I did have a fall back plan in place so if things did not work out on my W3V3, I was not dead in the water.  Within 30 minutes of meeting the original WOVO lady, I knew there was no chemistry (see my TRs).  I did meet 2 that I am continuing to talk with.  The big problem is that neither of them speak English well at all.  One of these ladies came from my back up plan (thanks for the pointer, Dale.  Zoya was great).
So, the moral of the story for all the true newbies coming behind me is: the WMVM strategy is truly the best way to go.  I know it seems "cheap", but the cost of 2 weeks in country is very expensive.  Maximize it by having many options.  Do not be afraid to cut a lady loose if you do feel that there is nothing there at the first meeting.  You are doing her a bigger favor by letting her move on as well as getting yourself the time back to focus on other ladies.  I am now working through a couple of websites that I like (Lucky Lovers and MarryDating).  Keep yourself on guard for the scammers (check the scammer score card here.... great tool).  My goal is to have a solid WMVM trip lined up for the end of summer or early fall.

[dneid]

All told, a two-week trip can be accomplished on 2 grand and you'll have met/dated perhaps 5-10 ladies depending on how the early dates go.  At the same time you'll gain a greater understanding of the process.

Ronnie, what you say here is so true!!!  Your last point was the greatest thing I learned on my first trip.  I now understand the whole process so much better.  The challenges of travel.  The cost of restaurants, the process of the first meeting.  Everything!!!  I now feel I am so much better prepared for my next trip.