Where to Look ?

[Eduard]

Eduard's approach should work but Catman needs to get on a plane.  If you going after serious non desperate women there going to get bored writing letters.  They want a personal face to face meeting if their serious.  Get on a plane and go.  You should be using the phone too and not letters. 

If your in Kiev from May 25th to June 1st let me know as I can introduce you to several serious women.  My 24th trip to Kiev is this May in past 22 months so I am very familiar with Kiev (met my fiance first trip to Kiev on business - no letters). 

My advice is to start learning Russian language, read a couple of books about their culture, and maybe a book about Russian women. and buy your plane ticket.

Alantodd,
I respectfully disagree with you on this. Rushing to meet someone in person could also be a bad thing. I think it is very important to take your time and get to know a person first, on line through letters, talk about everything, deep issues, family, goals, values, discuss different ideas... Personally I found that sometimes when you meet a woman say at a concert, grocery store or on the beach you may have an immediate attraction, chemistry, great sex you become infatuated with her and her beautiful body and you simply become blind to everything else. She becomes an addiction. And at the end you may find out that she is not honest, has bad habits and a disfunctional personality among other things. Guys, this happened to me, right here on the beach in SW Florida. And on top of that she was from Moldova! Well even though I did get addicted to her beautiful body, she did set off some red flags in me so I didn't marry her. and after 6.5 year relationship I finally found the strength to break it off(quit the addiction). It was very tough, but I knew that I didn't want to start a family with that woman. Now with my wife and the mother of my child it was a different story. I learned my lesson! With her we did talk on line and on the phone for about 5 months before we finally met and this gave me the opportunity to get to know her as a person before any chemistry and all the other stuff kicked in and clouded my judgement. I also talked to hundreds of women (it is a numbers game to find that special one, believe me!) and at the end i had my wife as #1 and a few back up girls in case things didn't work out. Now at this point when you meet you already know each other better than if you met at a local grocery store and dated for a few months. People tend to open up on line when they don't feel the pressure, and tell you their thoughts that they probably could never have shared with you if they were sitting right in front of you. At this point you can just relax and enjoy. Let the chemistry take over and fall madly in love, knowing that it won't bite you in the a$$.
With my client's permission I will post an excerpt from his favorite girl's letter where she talks about this issue better than I ever could. This doesn't identify her or can't hurt her in any way but I think it will help you understand the point I'm trying to make :
also about chemistry and speaking different languages. I think that most importantly people have to understand if they have similar life outlook. And a lot of it can be clear just from writing each other. And believe me, we are studying each other's innerworld much better this way than if we saw each other in real life. because many times in real life emotions and chemistry take over, and not always people say what they'd like to say. There could be many reasons for that: i.e. people try to make an impression, shyness, and many others. And here we can calmly write each other, get to know each other, no reason to lie, pretend, cheat, because at this point we have no commitment to each other we don't owe each other anything. It's all based on mutual understanding and enjoying communicating with each other. And all that is also enhanced by an image on the photo - for you my photo, for me, your's. We are using help from friends in order to understand each other. Right now the language barrier is not important because we understand each other perfectly well. The meeting will be the final point of realisation how we will react to each other in person and weather we want to take it any further. And since by that time we will have already discussed mostly everything the language is not going to be a big issue to figure out weather we have chemistry or not. And if for some reason we don't feel chemistry (anything can happen) I'm prepaired to chat with you on line all my life if you would be interested in that off course

[Eduard]

Turbo, Catman is telling about 'instant success' because he is mailing with 10 girls, and Eduard is looking for more.
You should know after all of your adventures that mailing 10 girls is not success.
Until Catman has actually made the trip, and found that one of the girls he is writing has chemistry enough to pursue a relationship, then he has made the first step on the way to success.
Right now, as far as I believe Eudar works, he gets translated letters, and writes back letters that are translated for him. I will give Eudard the benefit of the doubt that he does not 'colour' the letters but translates them like a professional translator would.
Still that makes the stage of Catman nothing more than a penpal stage, and as there is someone in between, there is no direct contact.

Without direct contact, it is a penpal by proxy. That does not mean Catman will fail, or that Eduard is doing a bad job for the $150 a week  Catman pays him.

Shadow, just so you know I provide my clients with both the original letter in Russian copied from the web site and my translation. many of my clients check up on me and make sure that I translate accurately with nothing added or taken away. I feel that it is their right and prerogative to do that. Catman speaks and understands some Ukrainian and obviously checked my translation. yes, I actually charge $160 a week. but think of all the work I do for that money. I'm not going to go into all I do but on average I spend 6 to 8 hours a week per client which is a bargain. I'm not going to talk about the difference my clients see in the women they meet through me, the level of communication they enjoy and the final results. I'll let my RWD clients talk themselves about all that. Catman and another client of mine who is an RWD member are going to be travelling to Russia and Ukraine this summer and I'm sure you will here their full report.
Until then you are right. Nothing to brag about. But I think Catman is just sharing his experience and strictly the results of the beginning stages of our search. He's had other experiences through other resources, so he is simply making a comparison now that I'm helping him, fair enough?

[Shadow]

I hope Ambach allows further hijacking, if not the mods can split off the thread fairly easy.

Catman is talking about his bad experience with an agency and a pro dater. Also he is repeating the sales pitch of the unique system.
Now let me make clear that I do not see a unique system, all I see is a different sales method.

What does an agency do ?
1. They look for women who might be interested in finding a partner.
2. they translate letters and offer translation in calls and interpreters on meetings
3. They get paid for this service.

So how is this different from Eduard ? The main difference it that where an agency has a catalogue of women, Eduard first gets a male client and then starts looking for women to match. Otherwise his method does not add anything to the services of an agency, and basicly he is nothing different.

Regarding the response of the woman, I wonder what questions could trigger such a response. Unless there was an equally strong question, one has to wonder how she came up with this.

[BC]

Ambach's OP on the 24th, asking some basic questions, now Eduard pops in with his spin on things going on with his "new" customer(s).  Don't you guys have email to consummate your business?

Sounds like Eduard thinks his customers simply do not have what it takes, suggesting that he is protecting them from being 'blinded' by the woman they meet, that they cannot judge values for themselves, cannot locate or communicate well without him etc etc.  By the time he has weeded and singled out the perfect woman there is probably little else to do than get on the plane, a quick chemistry check and jump in the sack - all icing on the cake.

One of the commandments states:

Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise.

I don't remember ever having someone select women and hold my hand while dating at home. 

Another:

Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.

Why do the opposite by making yourself even more dependent on others for things you can do for yourself, learning along the way.

Just an open question:

Should anyone needing such levels of assistance be considering RW at all?

[Eduard]

I'm sorry I contributed to this thread...right away you guys see some kind of a plot...
"Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise."
This would definitely be a great advice if there were no language barrier and cultural differences.

[Jet]

yes, I actually charge $160 a week. but think of all the work I do for that money. I'm not going to go into all I do but on average I spend 6 to 8 hours a week per client which is a bargain.

OK, I think everyone *gets* your program with regard to the American client, through what's been posted so far. My question is (and I haven't seen it addressed so far, but may have missed it) what's the pitch to the ladies? What are they expecting from your services, and how have you been able to convince them that working with you is so much better/different than working with a traditional agency?

[Jet]

"Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your home country. The biggest difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive process. Don't believe anyone that tells you otherwise."
This would definitely be a great advice if there were no language barrier and cultural differences.

FWIW I don't believe this to be true either. There are too many different dynamics in Int'l dating. Language barrier and cultural differences only being part of the equation. There is also the "compression factor" associated with most guys having a very limited amount of time to spend face to face with their "date".

[I/O]

Any comments would be appreciated.

Buy an atlas.

I/O

[Eduard]

I hope Ambach allows further hijacking, if not the mods can split off the thread fairly easy.

Catman is talking about his bad experience with an agency and a pro dater. Also he is repeating the sales pitch of the unique system.
Now let me make clear that I do not see a unique system, all I see is a different sales method.

What does an agency do ?
1. They look for women who might be interested in finding a partner.
2. they translate letters and offer translation in calls and interpreters on meetings
3. They get paid for this service.

So how is this different from Eduard ? The main difference it that where an agency has a catalogue of women, Eduard first gets a male client and then starts looking for women to match. Otherwise his method does not add anything to the services of an agency, and basicly he is nothing different.

Regarding the response of the woman, I wonder what questions could trigger such a response. Unless there was an equally strong question, one has to wonder how she came up with this.

Shadow you make good points. yes there are similarities, on the other hand there is a radical difference IMO.
1. Agencies advertise their service and try to attract women to sign up with them promising to find them a foreign partner. IMHO only a VERY minute amount of women are going to make a conscious decision to sign up with an agency and to be marketed to foreigners. By making a decision to sign up they already decided to leave behind their family, friends, career, language and culture and move to the West, AND THAT'S BEFORE THEY MET THE MAN!
IMHO the vast majority of women will not make such a decision and would rather advertise on local sites trying to meet a local man. And when my client contact these women on a local dating site it's not some abstract foreigner talking to them. They can click on his profile, read about him IN RUSSIAN, look at his several photos and then decide weather they like him enough to talk to him and get to know him a bit, see where it might lead. Their responses are usually very short in the beginning, just one or two sentences, but if they find some common ground and continue corresponding letters become longer, more interesting and more in depth. They even develop romantic feelings just by writing each other and feeling a good mental connection. So Shadow there are a couple of big differences. Catman is talking to women who didn't make a decision "To leave it all behind and move to the West" which IMO is not very natural and is unusual for a RW. For example for my wife the biggest stress is to be so far away from her family, friends and career and if it wasn't for me, she would have never even considered a foreigner and a move to another country. If I was looking on agency sites I would have never found her! I think the same goes for Gabaub.
2. The pool of women is very different in size. Obviously I don't have the exact number but from what I can see there is about a 100,000 women advertising on agency sites compared to around 10,000,000 advertising on local Russian sites. Yes, many of the 10 million would not qualify for various reasons. But many of the 100,000 would not qualify either if you take away all the scam, gold diggers and green card seekers. so the ratio would probably stay just about the same. So with my help my clients tap into a much larger pool of single women.
3. Since the vast majority of men do use agencies to find a RW, a good looking woman receives a very large amount of messages on an agency site and has many choices of men. So the competition is pretty fierce. The situation on local Russian sites is quite different and my clients don't have nearly as much competition.

[Eduard]

OK, I think everyone *gets* your program with regard to the American client, through what's been posted so far. My question is (and I haven't seen it addressed so far, but may have missed it) what's the pitch to the ladies? What are they expecting from your services, and how have you been able to convince them that working with you is so much better/different than working with a traditional agency?

Great question Jet!
fact is, there is no "pitch" to the ladies! usually my client will write a short introductory note, which I translate into Russian. Something like "Hi, I found you very attractive and would like to see if you wouldn't mind getting to know each other better?"
Then I search through women's profiles using my client's criteria and obviously picking more attractive women rather than less. When I see a good looking woman in the right age category I will open up her profile, read through it and make sure that she'd be a match (i.e. if my client doesn't want a woman with a child I will usually see that in her profile or things like smoking, the reason for her being there - some will say "My city only!" etc. etc.) and if she is I will just paste my client's intro letter and just type in her name.
Not all will respond, but some will. As soon as I get a response form a woman and I know that she is interested, I will copy her photos and info from her profile and send them to my client. If he likes what he sees, he completely takes over and they start writing each other. At this point I only act as an interpretor and cultural adviser. The correspondence is between him and her with no interference from me. If I see any red flags I will advise to my client obviously. hope this clarifies things for you, Jet

 Constant Promotion. For those interested in Eduard's services, find his website in his profile.

[IAmZon]

Hey Fellas, how goes things?  Just dropped in for a quick read ....

I appreciate 123s HONESTY about focusing on economic disparity.  Beyond that I feel like running to the bathroom and VOMITING.. 

You can attract a woman for a single date flaunting a rolex and driving an expensive car, maybe two - but a WIFE?!?!?  You seem to be a guy with a little soul searching to do BEFORE you take a trip and waste your time. Or worse, get run over by a beautiful, sexy, woman that promises everything you THINK you need.  Meanwhile, she will take everything she wants - including your nice little watch.  I echo Shadows comments on this point.

And Eduard!!!!  Your new Avatar has a SENSE of a religious Russian Icon, Divinity!  If that does not quiet your critics, nothing will   - Beautiful child, BTW

Seriously, Eduard certainly has a niche that must be respected.  It is a little different, more genuine I presume.  What's natural about a "marriage agency?" LOL  How could you not agree?  I will certainly use him myself if my life journey continues to hide the nice family girl I actually seek.  I will try everything without getting caught up in My Way (Rush Limbaugh)  / Your Way (Hillary) type of drum beating. (I do not understand why on this one point, method/ approach to meeting RW,  RWD - a group of exceptionally intelligent and successful men - becomes like childrenspeak?)

Bottom Line - Eduard deserves just as much respect (indeed more since his perspective is necessarily deeper and richer) as JB, Jack Bragg, Gator, et all for his familiarity to the subject matter Russia / Russian Women.  I have not heard one client complain?  So WTF ...

[Shadow]

Shadow you make good points. yes there are similarities, on the other hand there is a radical difference IMO.

You are entitled to your opinion.

1. Agencies advertise their service and try to attract women to sign up with them promising to find them a foreign partner. IMHO only a VERY minute amount of women are going to make a conscious decision to sign up with an agency and to be marketed to foreigners. By making a decision to sign up they already decided to leave behind their family, friends, career, language and culture and move to the West, AND THAT'S BEFORE THEY MET THE MAN!
IMHO the vast majority of women will not make such a decision and would rather advertise on local sites trying to meet a local man. And when my client contact these women on a local dating site it's not some abstract foreigner talking to them. They can click on his profile, read about him IN RUSSIAN, look at his several photos and then decide weather they like him enough to talk to him and get to know him a bit, see where it might lead. Their responses are usually very short in the beginning, just one or two sentences, but if they find some common ground and continue corresponding letters become longer, more interesting and more in depth. They even develop romantic feelings just by writing each other and feeling a good mental connection. So Shadow there are a couple of big differences. Catman is talking to women who didn't make a decision "To leave it all behind and move to the West" which IMO is not very natural and is unusual for a RW. For example for my wife the biggest stress is to be so far away from her family, friends and career and if it wasn't for me, she would have never even considered a foreigner and a move to another country. If I was looking on agency sites I would have never found her! I think the same goes for Gabaub.

My partner did not make a decision to leave all behind her when she joined an agency that advertised her profile on a free site.
In fact until she signed the visa application she did not realise that it could really happen, and suffered the shock of reality. This is not uncommon at all. Many women sign up with an agency just to try and have not made any decision, they are at the same time looking for and dating RM, and could have a profile on the sites you use.
Your point is there for invalid for probably many of the women, perhaps the female contributors here could shed some light.

2. The pool of women is very different in size. Obviously I don't have the exact number but from what I can see there is about a 100,000 women advertising on agency sites compared to around 10,000,000 advertising on local Russian sites. Yes, many of the 10 million would not qualify for various reasons. But many of the 100,000 would not qualify either if you take away all the scam, gold diggers and green card seekers. so the ratio would probably stay just about the same. So with my help my clients tap into a much larger pool of single women.

As my previous point shows, the agencies tap in to the same pool as you. There for there is little difference in the pool.
Your clients tap in to the pool of women you find for them.

3. Since the vast majority of men do use agencies to find a RW, a good looking woman receives a very large amount of messages on an agency site and has many choices of men. So the competition is pretty fierce. The situation on local Russian sites is quite different and my clients don't have nearly as much competition.

I would like here to get comments from the female contributors, or the wives of our married couples.
As there are 10.000.000 people looking I can not imagine that a good looking woman would NOT get any messages.
If your point is that most of them would not fit their standards, with all due respect that is similar for the reactions women receive through agencies.

[Shadow]

Seriously, Eduard certainly has a niche that must be respected.  It is a little different, more genuine I presume.  What's natural about a "marriage agency?" LOL  How could you not agree?  I will certainly use him myself if my life journey continues to hide the nice family girl I actually seek.  I will try everything without getting caught up in My Way (Rush Limbaugh)  / Your Way (Hillary) type of drum beating. (I do not understand why on this one point, method/ approach to meeting RW,  RWD - a group of exceptionally intelligent and successful men - becomes like childrenspeak?)

Bottom Line - Eduard deserves just as much respect (indeed more) as JB, Jack Bragg, Gator, et all for his familiarity to the subject matter Russia / Russian Women.  I have not heard one client complain?  So WTF ...

So far Eduard has not displayed a lot of his knowledge outside the sales pitch. His 'niche' however is mostly in presentation. Outside that he is not different from agencies, he offers services in matchmaking for a price.
Nothing wrong with that, there a re hundreds of people doing the same, all with their own unique qualities and presentation.

[KenC]

Alantodd,
I respectfully disagree with you on this. Rushing to meet someone in person could also be a bad thing. I think it is very important to take your time and get to know a person first, on line through letters, talk about everything, deep issues, family, goals, values, discuss different ideas... Personally I found that sometimes when you meet a woman say at a concert, grocery store or on the beach you may have an immediate attraction, chemistry, great sex you become infatuated with her and her beautiful body and you simply become blind to everything else. She becomes an addiction. And at the end you may find out that she is not honest, has bad habits and a disfunctional personality among other things. Guys, this happened to me, right here on the beach in SW Florida. And on top of that she was from Moldova! Well even though I did get addicted to her beautiful body, she did set off some red flags in me so I didn't marry her. and after 6.5 year relationship I finally found the strength to break it off(quit the addiction). It was very tough, but I knew that I didn't want to start a family with that woman. Now with my wife and the mother of my child it was a different story. I learned my lesson! With her we did talk on line and on the phone for about 5 months before we finally met and this gave me the opportunity to get to know her as a person before any chemistry and all the other stuff kicked in and clouded my judgement. I also talked to hundreds of women (it is a numbers game to find that special one, believe me!) and at the end i had my wife as #1 and a few back up girls in case things didn't work out. Now at this point when you meet you already know each other better than if you met at a local grocery store and dated for a few months. People tend to open up on line when they don't feel the pressure, and tell you their thoughts that they probably could never have shared with you if they were sitting right in front of you. At this point you can just relax and enjoy. Let the chemistry take over and fall madly in love, knowing that it won't bite you in the a$$.
With my client's permission I will post an excerpt from his favorite girl's letter where she talks about this issue better than I ever could. This doesn't identify her or can't hurt her in any way but I think it will help you understand the point I'm trying to make :
also about chemistry and speaking different languages. I think that most importantly people have to understand if they have similar life outlook. And a lot of it can be clear just from writing each other. And believe me, we are studying each other's innerworld much better this way than if we saw each other in real life. because many times in real life emotions and chemistry take over, and not always people say what they'd like to say. There could be many reasons for that: i.e. people try to make an impression, shyness, and many others. And here we can calmly write each other, get to know each other, no reason to lie, pretend, cheat, because at this point we have no commitment to each other we don't owe each other anything. It's all based on mutual understanding and enjoying communicating with each other. And all that is also enhanced by an image on the photo - for you my photo, for me, your's. We are using help from friends in order to understand each other. Right now the language barrier is not important because we understand each other perfectly well. The meeting will be the final point of realisation how we will react to each other in person and weather we want to take it any further. And since by that time we will have already discussed mostly everything the language is not going to be a big issue to figure out weather we have chemistry or not. And if for some reason we don't feel chemistry (anything can happen) I'm prepaired to chat with you on line all my life if you would be interested in that off course

Eduard,
The "logic" you use here is baffling.  The membership here has long been cautioned not to fall in love with a photo, meaning not to get too emotionally invested before actually meeting.  You appear to be advising just the opposite and  have to disagree.  Of course there is many things that can be cleared up via email or even phone calls prior to meeting, but all is for naught if the couple does not hit it off in a non-vertual world (real life).  It is much easier to fall into a fantasy trap via emails than it is in real time together.
KenC

[Catman]

What I like about the girls from the Russian dating sites is there natural "snapshot" photos. The girls are very beautiful and natural, more real. Agencies use professional pictures, barely dressed girls, wind in their professionally styled hair, yes these are beautiful pictures of beautiful girls but I like the natural ones showing what they look like every day. Yes of course don't fall in love with a picture. I am not advertising or using some sales pitch for Eduard. I thought the purpose of this site is to help men find a wife. I'm all for helping anyone out if I can. I have learned a lot from every one of the guys on here that have been through this. So far I have nothing but good things to say about Eduard. I'm very happy :)Wether or not to jump on a plane right away or not all depends on the mans situation. For myself it's hard to get away. I wish I had the time to explore every nook of FSU for the right girl. I don't. How long will this search take? Until it is over of course but I have seen where guys are making 10 trips and still have nothing. My friend in Kiev has an older man who stays at his place every year he has been searching for 10 years. 10 YEARS! Marriage is not something you would like to rush into of course but I sure hope I'm not 50 years old by the time I find a wife. I probably would be so used to living alone by then I wouldn't want a woman. There is also the cost of all the trips that result in nothing. One way to look at this is writing to a girl or girls for a year, going on the trip and she is not the one. The other way is writing for a certain amount of time first, maybe 3-6 months and then going on the trip. There could be wasted time and trips in both situations. What would be the right amount of time to write first? I guess every situation is different but surely not a whole year. One girl I am writing to I want to jump on the jet tomorrow to meet her but I need more time to get to know the back up girls first. Maybe my favorite is not the one and I haven't invested enough time to get to know the other girls.
I would also like to have some RW opinions on this. Yeah you guys are all great and have some great advice but I would like to hear from some girls.

[Shadow]

Catman regarding meeting one or many, it is a debate that never ends. I always adive people to keep it close to home.
Are you (or were you) used to date more then one woman at the sam time until you decided to give one all your attention ? Then get the backups.  Were you used to take dating one woman at a time ? Then use the same with FSU dating.
Reason is that just because you have support, you are not going to change.

As for women, some will understand that for a first trip you can not devote all your time to one with the risk of not having chemistry.
Others will see it as a deal breaker. Be sure which one you are writing to before telling your plans, but be honest anyway.
RW are not stupid, and will sniff out any story that does not match up.

If you have the possibility to regularly take a few days off and do not respond badly to jetlag, make multiple trips visiting one at the time. When your time is more precious, or you need adjustment after a long flight, the risk is different.
With Eduard (or even better: a RW you are friends with) by your side you might even manage to make contact with women you never wrote but that show interest in you, should things go bad.

[KenC]

Catman,
Everyone has their preferences.  I remember the biggest complaint many guys had regarding LTP years ago was that their photos were not professional enough.  And then there was Mordinson's that was thought to have photos that were too slick.  Sometimes they cannot win either way. :noidea:

We have one of those 10+ year legends here at RWD.  Turboguy recently got married after more than 10 years searching.

Here's the trick about communication as I see it.  You want to have enough so as to know the basics about the woman you go to visit.  Know that she is on the same page as you in many areas: She is willing to relocate, children, religion, morals, family values, interests and character.  It is very easy to fantasize an email relationship into more than what it is however.  Personally, I like the phone better because you have the spontaneity of conversation.  Of course that is with the assumption that you two share a common language.(hint, hint)

Regardless of what method you use to meet RW, consider that your "real" relationship begins upon a face to face meeting and not before.  The prerequisite groundwork is like studying for a final exam, where the actual meeting is the true test IMO. 

To answer your direct question, I would think no more than 45 to 60 days of prior communication would be sufficient.
KenC

[IAmZon]

Another perspective ...

I have been spending a ton of time in the Caribbean and Latin America.  I did not know this until several months ago (I am a sheltered little fellow).  There is a ton of women in Columbia; Brazil; and Argentina - just as beautiful as Russian ladies.  Similar dating dynamics apply Columbia is like Ukraine; Brazil is like Hungary and the Czech Republic

These women are physically and emotionally a dream come true.  BUT, (and I think you guys are going to love this) The intellectual connection is NOTHING compared to ladies from Eastern Europe and Russia.  AT LEAST IN THE PEN PAL CATEGORY. After spending a little time on this region's answer to Elana's Models and the rest.  Do you want to hear the funniest thing:  The best letter and communication I received from LatinLovers.com (and I mean out of 100s of ladies - Medical Doctors; Psychologists, to peasants ..) was from Elana, a pretty young lady from Kazan, Russia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Is that a hoot, or what.

All introductory devises are only introductory devices.  One is not, nor can it be necessarily, BETTER all the time.  The game of love is chance.  Any man who has a hungry heart should be happy that there are some many fast food restaurants. 

And really, after all the hype and craziness  ... it is all NOT that big of deal until one makes a mistake.  So be fully ready and choose well.

(sorry for coming down so hard up thread on 123.  It just makes ME feel creepy  ... that one dimensional economic thinking.  Sure!  I am aware that I have a greater "value" in Columbia; Brazil; Romania; Dominican Republic; Russia.  But that is only superficial.  There is much more depth in understanding required for marriage.  That initial trade-up in physical beauty becomes a very small thing when true incompatibilities arise.)

[BC]

Catman,

If it's hard for you to get away, I can only suggest waiting until you do have the time.  The greatest resource I invested is time.  It took me no time to find my wife, but getting settled in after marriage was a totally different story.  Beware.. your undivided attention will be required.

Then again there are some that will pay others to do their Christmas shopping..

Prefer a red or blue bow?

[Turboguy]

As far as the going to visit early after a few letters or writing a while discussion, if you make a trip after a letter or two are you not really going to visit a photo?   My preference was to always write long enough to get a feel for the inner person.  I do totally agree until you are face to face you won't know what you really have together.  I would say my range was meeting a few days after the first letter to meeting after two years of writing and hundreds of letters.  I can't say either extreme worked well.   The one I met after hundreds of letters forgot to tell me she was an alcoholic.   

Rivardco, yes that is a bit of a hoot.  When I started I wrote gals from everywhere including the areas you talked about and Asian gals as well.  The RW pulled ahead and once I got hooked on RW I lost all interest in the others.  I do think the better education level in the FSU was a factor.  Intellectually FSU women are hard to beat but S. A. women can be very beautiful and very passionate.

BC, I think all our experiences can be different.  Getting settled in with VWRW was really pretty easy and smooth.   We had about 6 months of living like a married couple before tying the knot so I am sure those who know each other for a few weeks might have more difficulty.

[BC]

BC, I think all our experiences can be different.  Getting settled in with VWRW was really pretty easy and smooth.   We had about 6 months of living like a married couple before tying the knot so I am sure those who know each other for a few weeks might have more difficulty.

Turbo,

Then chock up 6 months time invested.  Your working situation obviously allowed you two the ability to investing a lot of time up front with very few distractions.

A luxury Catman and many others may not have.

[mac1165]

Having traveled in and around both Russia (Yoshkar-Ola, Kazan, and Moscow) and Ukraine (Kirovograd, Odessa, Kiev) via trains, planes, and automobiles, I'd have to say that Ukraine is currently much easier to navigate and more user friendly for American men.  The great thing about Ukraine is that an American man with a valid passport can be in Ukraine on the next flight out!

[Shadow]

Having traveled in and around both Russia (Yoshkar-Ola, Kazan, and Moscow) and Ukraine (Kirovograd, Odessa, Kiev) via trains, planes, and automobiles, I'd have to say that Ukraine is currently much easier to navigate and more user friendly for American men.  The great thing about Ukraine is that an American man with a valid passport can be in Ukraine on the next flight out!

So you can pick a puppy and get to the pund the next day. 

[ambach123]

I would like to get back to the origninal topic of where to look.

i am a member of EM. I did a comparative analysis.

I expressed an interest in 30 women in Ukraine, and another 30 women in Russia, using the same criteria.

Here are the results.

Ukraine, 16 deleted without replying or did not reply. Another 14 were not interested; only two responded with a positive interest.

Russia, 18 have not responded yet, out of 12 that have responded NONE declined, they were all interested.

You can infer as you like; I have some opinions about it. Ukrainian women get a lot of responses, that is where AM is going.

Russian women probably get no letters, that is why they are eager and interested.

Why? Money may have something to do with it. Russia is an expensive place; Moscow is the most expensive city in the world.

I think the process has become so expensive, that the middle class or lower middle class AM that made up the bulk of those seeking a bride in FSU is out of it, at least in Russia.

Of course you may have another opinion, but the results speak for themselves.

I am rethinking my strategy and looking into Russia. Of course an initial interest does not get you a bride; but you have to start somehwere.

[catzenmouse]

Of course you may have another opinion, but the results speak for themselves.

Or the results don't mean a damn thing. Maybe you picked 30 women in Ukraine that have boyfriends and aren't serious. Maybe, maybe, maybe... There can be a dozen different reasons for any of this.

Don't get too stuck on conclusions that are based on minimal information.