Just wondering...How do we make RM and AW feel?

[Ronnie]

This board has plenty o' men from all over the world, all over, that is, except from FSU.  The board also has women from FSU but AW and WW are conpicuously absent.  This causes me to wonder  How much resentment is there in the WW and RMs of the world against what we do?

Imagine yourselves as an RM.  Are they right to resent us - to resent their women leaving their homeland?

A local RW went for her driver test recently and the examiner, an AW made a comment about all the American men looking for wives in FSU.  Kinda hard to put ourselves in their shoes but if we could what would we post here?

[BillyB]

Forums like this are usually found through a search engine like Google. AW and RM have little interest in finding this place and most likely they will never try unless they're feminist. We've had AW researchers and  RM guide/interpreters post here but of course they have an interest in finding a site like this.

[DKMM]

I noticed resentment in Ukraine last week but 100% of it was the UW being resentful of the girl at my side.  All the guys I met were totally nice and outgoing to me.

However an old guy was treated far differently, he reported guys approaching him asking him why he's taking their young women. 

Very many old farts around Ukraine these days chasing after girls with no hope of success.

[KenC]

Ronnie,
How do you think they feel?  In a word, "defensive" would be the best description.

Over the years, we have had a number of incidents that indicate that some AW are threatened by this process.  Many shots have been directed our way from previous female "friends" of mine. 

There also has been a number of talk shows on the subject over the years that certainly took a negative approach to looking into this subject.  The most recent being the Tara Banks show where she showed her stance on the matter clearly by referring to AM "buying" Russian wives.  Years ago the subject was also the topic for the View and it was much the same posture as Tara's show.

Years ago we had a legend of a troll on Planet Love named "Clair."  It seems that her dad had married a RW slightly younger than herself.  She would appear every so often on the forum to spew her hatred for RW in general and to mock the AM in pursuit of them.

AW have had their way in American society unchallenged for many years now.  Outlooks have been turned upside down from the way they were prior to the 70's.  The thought of RW wanting to be feminine, prioritizing having children over careers and the thought of men and women playing the more traditional roles based on their sex, is far too much for the average AW to bare.
KenC

[ScottinCrimea]

Their problem is that they look at AM and RW and ask, "What is wrong with them?" instead of looking at themselves and asking, "What is wrong with us?"

[Ronnie]

After sending back my first K-1 and her daughters from hell, I dated locally. 

One AW in particular was a good catch..5 years younger than myself, a former homecoming queen and still very attractive and bright.  She'd been single and looking for a long time.  Our son's were both musicians (hers more talented than mine, IMO) and she acted as though she had finally found what she was looking for in me.  "You're the real deal," she used to say to me.  I could only imagine the type of guys she'd been dating - Porsche drivers, I suspected. 

She had her own home in Scottdale, a new Solara and a job as a teacher at an expensive private school.  Very well educated and brilliant in her own right.  Oh, we had great conversation!  She flattered me endlessly, "Has there been anyone like you since Thomas More?"  

So Deb was caught completely off guard when she called me one morning and found me on the Super Shuttle heading to Sky Harbor airport, en route to Ukraine.  "I'll be back in a couple weeks - no big deal," I said as if going on a weekend golf outing with the guys. 

"Why are you going to Ukraine?" she asked.   

Good question, I thought to myself.  "To visit friends," I told her.
"Let me call you when I get to the gate, I've got people around me here."

At the gate, I didn't have to call.  My cell was ringing.  Deb had had a chance to figure things out and was in tears, pleading with me to not make the trip,  "I didn't realize how I felt about you until now - please stay!"
 
So why did I reject this AW who had done nothing wrong in the relationship so far?  (I knew, and she knew, that this trip meant an early-term abortion of our budding relationship). 

I simply decided I had been down this road before.  It was well-known territory, all too familiar.  At my age, I didn't just want another (third) American wife.  They say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. 

So there I was, standing at the divergence of two roads in my own yellow wood.  Had I chosen to settle down with Deb, I would have spent much time wondering what lay down the road not taken. 

So while Robert Frost might understand us, it seems that AW won't understand us at all.  They feel rejected and in a way, it's unfair to them. 

Understandably, they're bitter. They make unflattering remarks about desperate MOBs and the "losers" who "buy" them for the same reason the Aesop's fox declared the grapes to be sour. 

[mspanky]

 I've never had a problem with RM. The AW who I've had issues with are the ugly,fat or plain ones who are scared AM  are leaving and soon their small supply of AM will be GONE. What scares them is that they actually will have to put effort in their looks or lose weight. .

 Beautiful  AW don't seem to give a hoot where AM go since they have more men at their feet than they know what to do with. In fact it seems beautiful AW are much more understanding to men who marry overseas women. My experience. Others may vary.


  I have noted though the more discrepancy in looks and age, the more looks and comments you will get from AW and FW. Also the more  guys will try to hit on her.

[Blues Fairy]

After sending back my first K-1 and her daughters from hell, I dated locally. 
So why did I reject this AW who had done nothing wrong in the relationship so far? 
I simply decided I had been down this road before.  It was well-known territory, all too familiar. 

So your first K-1 "from hell" was not enough for such a generalization, whereas your previous 2 American wives were?
Unfair indeed. 

[WmGO]

Years ago we had a legend of a troll on Planet Love named "Clair."  It seems that her dad had married a RW slightly younger than herself.  She would appear every so often on the forum to spew her hatred for RW in general and to mock the AM in pursuit of them.

Ken, this thread made me think of Clair also. Isn't that the one who JackB would have the big name calling fights with, calling her "Moo Moo Clair" because apparently she was a very large cow of a woman? Or was that another disgruntled AW? There used to be several on PL as I recall.....and
a lot of very funny threads of battle.   

[WmGO]

So your first K-1 "from hell" was not enough for such a generalization, whereas your previous 2 American wives were?
Unfair indeed. 

You make the assumption that he otherwise knows nothing about
his country or it's women............

[Blues Fairy]

You make the assumption that he otherwise knows nothing about
his country or it's women............

I assume that whatever "knowledge" one has of his local dating pool, it's still personal experience and nothing more.  I also see that the local woman received a very unfair treatment based on the generalization of this personal experience. 

Have you read "The Black Swan" by Nassim Nicholas Taleb?

The problem, Nassim explains, is that we place too much weight on the odds that past events will repeat (diligently trying to follow the path of the "millionaire next door," when unrepeatable chance is a better explanation). Instead, the really important events are rare and unpredictable. He calls them Black Swans, which is a reference to a 17th century philosophical thought experiment. In Europe all anyone had ever seen were white swans; indeed, "all swans are white" had long been used as the standard example of a scientific truth. So what was the chance of seeing a black one? Impossible to calculate, or at least they were until 1697, when explorers found Cygnus atratus in Australia.

Nassim argues that most of the really big events in our world are rare and unpredictable, and thus trying to extract generalizable stories to explain them may be emotionally satisfying, but it's practically useless.

And sometimes hurtful, I may say.

[Ronnie]

Blue Fairy,
I'm not sure we're understanding each other.  I said the "daughters from hell" - not the K-1 mother.  She was wonderful and we were both victimized by her daughters' conduct. 

I agree that it would have been unfair to the AW to allow the relationship to develop any further if it turned out that I decided not to follow through.  That's why I left so early.  In truth, I was still torn but knew I needed to choose which path to take, and not delay further.  I chose the path that I had not been down before - for better or worse.

I really was not prejudging the AW though I can see where it might appear so.

[Ronnie]

And what of the Russian men?  Is it not unfair to Russian men that their best and most talented women move to the west, rejecting them out of hand? 

[ScottinCrimea]

With all due respect, do any of us really care how they feel?

[catzenmouse]

With all due respect, do any of us really care how they feel?

LOL! This thread had me thinking about Clark Gabel's final words to Scarlet O'Hara in Gone With The Wind.

[Faux Pas]

With all due respect, do any of us really care how they feel?

Funny, my first reaction when I read that was "who cares?"

[KenC]

Ken, this thread made me think of Clair also. Isn't that the one who JackB would have the big name calling fights with, calling her "Moo Moo Clair" because apparently she was a very large cow of a woman? Or was that another disgruntled AW? There used to be several on PL as I recall.....and
a lot of very funny threads of battle.   

WmGO,
Yes that is the one and only Clair.  Funny thing is that Clair wasn't overweight at all.  I KNOW this because she ended up sending Jack photos!  (Which I have seen)  I would have some interesting debates with Clair until she got backed into a corner and then she would get nasty.
KenC

[Admin]

With all due respect, do any of us really care how they feel?

I do. For a couple of reasons.

One is - if we don't care how they feel, we won't examine why they feel that way. If we don't examine why, we are incapable of understanding their motivations. Is it important to understand other's motivations? Only if we want to make the world a more peaceful place by bridging differences and seeking common ground.

I recall my first trip to Ukraine. It was in 1998. I traveled with a Ukrainian guy from Odesa to Kremenchug via overnight train. Yuri was his name, and he had been in the military for most of his life. At that time, the economy was terrible. Yuri was a fairly young guy who spoke decent English and, in many ways, seemed to have some things going for him. He was also quite depressed over his inability to find any kind of stable employment meaning his prospects for a wife and family were nil. He refused to marry in those circumstances and gave no thought to the prospect of children. His view of the future was that it was "hopeless". I remained in loose contact with Yuri for a time after that trip, and was left with the impression of a fine person who was ill-prepared for the fate that afflicted his country's economy, and him by extension, through no fault of his own. I've met others in Ukraine like Yuri - and I care about how they feel.

- Dan

[KenC]

After sending back my first K-1 and her daughters from hell, I dated locally. 

One AW in particular was a good catch..5 years younger than myself, a former homecoming queen and still very attractive and bright.  She'd been single and looking for a long time.  Our son's were both musicians (hers more talented than mine, IMO) and she acted as though she had finally found what she was looking for in me.  "You're the real deal," she used to say to me.  I could only imagine the type of guys she'd been dating - Porsche drivers, I suspected. 

She had her own home in Scottdale, a new Solara and a job as a teacher at an expensive private school.  Very well educated and brilliant in her own right.  Oh, we had great conversation!  She flattered me endlessly, "Has there been anyone like you since Thomas More?"  

So Deb was caught completely off guard when she called me one morning and found me on the Super Shuttle heading to Sky Harbor airport, en route to Ukraine.  "I'll be back in a couple weeks - no big deal," I said as if going on a weekend golf outing with the guys. 

"Why are you going to Ukraine?" she asked.   

Good question, I thought to myself.  "To visit friends," I told her.
"Let me call you when I get to the gate, I've got people around me here."

At the gate, I didn't have to call.  My cell was ringing.  Deb had had a chance to figure things out and was in tears, pleading with me to not make the trip,  "I didn't realize how I felt about you until now - please stay!"
 
So why did I reject this AW who had done nothing wrong in the relationship so far?  (I knew, and she knew, that this trip meant an early-term abortion of our budding relationship). 

I simply decided I had been down this road before.  It was well-known territory, all too familiar.  At my age, I didn't just want another (third) American wife.  They say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. 

So there I was, standing at the divergence of two roads in my own yellow wood.  Had I chosen to settle down with Deb, I would have spent much time wondering what lay down the road not taken. 

So while Robert Frost might understand us, it seems that AW won't understand us at all.  They feel rejected and in a way, it's unfair to them. 

Understandably, they're bitter. They make unflattering remarks about desperate MOBs and the "losers" who "buy" them for the same reason the Aesop's fox declared the grapes to be sour. 

Ronnie,
I too was dating a very nice AW at the time I stumbled across Lena on the nternet.  The gal I was dating was 14 years younger than I was at the time and a very good woman.  I didn't pull the plug on AW in any way before I went to Russia.  To be perfectly honest, I was very naive to the difference between AW and RW before I went to Russia.  Of course I had heard some talk that RW were this or that, but I never really believed any of it until I actually went there.  When I returned, as most AM, I was ruined forever.
KenC

[mspanky]

Ken, this thread made me think of Clair also. Isn't that the one who JackB would have the big name calling fights with, calling her "Moo Moo Clair" because apparently she was a very large cow of a woman? Or was that another disgruntled AW? There used to be several on PL as I recall.....and
a lot of very funny threads of battle.   

  JB was making fun of someone else's cowlike  appearance? Sort of ironic .

[Blues Fairy]

With all due respect, do any of us really care how they feel?

You should, because your FSU wives will have to deal with a few AW eventually.

[ScottinCrimea]

You should, because your FSU wives will have to deal with a few AW eventually.

And if the AW don't get it then, they never will.

[mspanky]

You should, because your FSU wives will have to deal with a few AW eventually.

 Blue fairy. What have been your experience with AW? Do you note some jealousy in all or just a particular type?

[KenC]

I do. For a couple of reasons.

One is - if we don't care how they feel, we won't examine why they feel that way. If we don't examine why, we are incapable of understanding their motivations. Is it important to understand other's motivations? Only if we want to make the world a more peaceful place by bridging differences and seeking common ground.

I recall my first trip to Ukraine. It was in 1998. I traveled with a Ukrainian guy from Odesa to Kremenchug via overnight train. Yuri was his name, and he had been in the military for most of his life. At that time, the economy was terrible. Yuri was a fairly young guy who spoke decent English and, in many ways, seemed to have some things going for him. He was also quite depressed over his inability to find any kind of stable employment meaning his prospects for a wife and family were nil. He refused to marry in those circumstances and gave no thought to the prospect of children. His view of the future was that it was "hopeless". I remained in loose contact with Yuri for a time after that trip, and was left with the impression of a fine person who was ill-prepared for the fate that afflicted his country's economy, and him by extension, through no fault of his own. I've met others in Ukraine like Yuri - and I care about how they feel.

- Dan

Dan,
Interesting points you bring up regarding the fate of RM back then.  I was always under the impression that many RM were just not in the financial position to even begin to think about marriage too.  In fact, since Lena has been here in America, two of her past boyfriends have shown up at her parents door.  It seems that these two guys went to Moscow to seek their fortune and had some success, so they felt they were then in a position to court Lena seriously.  They were shocked that Lena had been in America for years at that point.  Of course I am forever happy for being in the right place at the right time, but my heart goes out to the young RM too.
KenC

[KenC]

  JB was making fun of someone else's cowlike  appearance? Sort of ironic .

Just for clarification, it was Jack Bragg that had wars with Clair, not the jb we know of here.
KenC