Filing for K-3

[ScottinCrimea]

Isn't it pretty well true that the only time one needs an attorney is for defense against another attorney?

[ISORW]

In all fairness to William3rd, there are times when someone should avail themselves to the services of an attorney in immigration cases and filings.  As Anastassia said, there are simply some people who do not have the attention to detail that helps make a successful filing.  And William3rd has offered good advice in the past...it's just this one area most of us seem to have disagreement with him.  And for complicated case (and I've known of a few), one would have to be a fool to not consult and use a good immigration attorney and I'm sure in these areas William3rd shines.

I'm sure it was in jest, but the last couple of posts are simply not fair.  I have an attorney on retainer and he charges a fair price and does an excellent job.  There are many business matters I take care of on my own but there are others I would never think of commencing without his counsel.

[ScottinCrimea]

I think the problem is William's implication that everyone should use an attorney for the process.  I agree that for some this is necessary, either because they don't have the time or the brains to do it right,  but it should be an individual decision without having to hear all of the anecdotes of the idiots who couldn't put a stamp on a letter without someone to lick it for them and show them where to put it.

[Ronnie]

I think the problem is William's implication that everyone should use an attorney for the process.  I agree that for some this is necessary, either because they don't have the time or the brains to do it right,  but it should be an individual decision without having to hear all of the anecdotes of the idiots who couldn't put a stamp on a letter without someone to lick it for them and show them where to put it.

That was my point exactly, Scott.

[Jet]

In all fairness to William3rd, there are times when someone should avail themselves to the services of an attorney in immigration cases and filings. 

  And for complicated case (and I've known of a few), one would have to be a fool to not consult and use a good immigration attorney and I'm sure in these areas William3rd shines.

 I have an attorney on retainer and he charges a fair price and does an excellent job.  There are many business matters I take care of on my own but there are others I would never think of commencing without his counsel.

I absolutely agree, and every time I've used an attorney it has been money very well spent, resulting in a savings of cash many times in excess of their fees. I have absolutely nothing against lawyers, but I don't hire them to do things I can do as well or better on my own. My point is that I think *most* people are aware when they're in over their head, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. Will I pay a mechanic $3000.00 to replace and tune a diesel injector pump? Absolutely (and have)! Will I pay them $75 to change a $2 light bulb? Not on your life (but I've met people who've been coerced into doing just that)!

If one's immigration case is anything beyond a straightforward filing I will be the first to suggest they seek an initial consultation at the very minimum.

[apple47]

      I absolutely hate paperwork of any kind.  So, when the time came for a K1 I did some research and decided on Roth.  Cost was $2800.00 for my"to be" wife and 2 future step-daughters. Was given a list of things to provide , gathered these up and sent them off in 2 weeks time.  No word for 3 weeks.  Then I get a phone call from an attorney in Alabama informing me that the home office had sent my stuff to him for completion,but there were some things missing and an interview was required to gather some information from me.  About an hour later I have a list of things to send,things I had already sent once, and had finished the fact gathering interview. Sent this stuff out in 1 week.

        Waited a few weeks,possibly 6,,I don't remember exactly,then began calling and leaving messages on voice mail,then email.  No answer of any kind.  This continued for about another 6 weeks.

            Not impressed and getting pissed.   I leave another voice mail that I want all my information sent back to me.   3 days later my stuff shows up in my mail box with a letter telling me that he was sorry it didn't work out and wished me better luck with the next woman.  Also ,since he had completed 80% of the forms ,there would be no refund.     The 80% of completed forms were not included with the stuff in my mailbox,though I had paid for them.    And the missing stuff was there along with replacements I sent originally.

              My wife is from Kazakhstan and at that time they were processing DCF's.
   Did some more research to find out what I would need to do,how much it cost and where to send it.    For my future wife's side ,she found an agent to handle the Kazakh gov't side of things.   Cost me $800.00,and he was more than worth the price, as I would find out later.

               Went to Almaty for another 30 day visit in Feb of 05.   No hitches of any kind.Everything went well on both sides . [paperwork speaking].  Got married 11 days after I arrived ,wife and daughters had thier visa's be the middle of March.   Because of conditions beyond anybodys control,they weren't able to arrive til June 10,05,though they got as close as the boarding gate in March.

                 As I mentioned at the beginning,I hate paperwork.I justified using a lawyer be claiming I wanted to be sure that all the I's were dotted and all the T's were crossed and all the paperwork would be filled out correctly and find its way to its proper place at the correct time.   As I found out the difference between the forms for DCF and K1 were mostly just a different number on the same form.

                 If you use a lawyer you will need to provide everything needed  to complete the forms. Police reports,apostiles,certified translations, etc.  All come from you and your lady.  You pay the lawyer his fee plus the fees for submitting the forms plus the fees required on your lady's side of things. The lawyer fills out the forms,sends them in or sends them to you to send in.    You can research the process if you are curious about it,but,you don't have to,the lawyer is handling it. Right?

                 If you do it yourself you won't have the lawyer fee,you will have to do some research and obtain the forms you will need,fill out and file the forms .Everything else is about the same as using a lawyer.

                   I've only used a lawyer 2 other times. Once for the divorce which went easily,lawyer said it was the easiest he had seen in 35 years.   The QDRO required, because of 2 pensions  involved ,was another story. Lawyers on both sides.  Took 2.5 years for one and 3 years for the other.   If I didn't make myself a thorn in thier side,nothing got done. And even with that,most of the delay was from bad communication and stupid mistakes on both sides.  And this from so called specialists in this area.   Since the divorce,I haven't been impressed by a lawyer .  It seems that once they have your money,you have to almost force any action.  Maybe a lawyer on a retainer is different,I don't know.

                    I don't say that a lawyer is never needed. But,If your situation is straight forward,you don't need one and have nothing to gain by using one,not even piece of mind.  I've done it one way and tried the other way and there was more stress when using the lawyer. Doing it myself I knew what was happening and when ,there was no wondering about anything.

                                  Good Luck either way you go.


                                                              Larry

               
               

               

[Muckraker]

Will the embassy in Kingston take an out-of-district K-3 interview? Does your girl speak English well enough for the interview there?

Muck

[mendeleyev]

Ravens, just a couple of corrections:  Ukraine does accept paperwork from USA as detailed on their Embassy website.  If you didn't get the Apostilles then perhaps you may have needed to have some paperwork redone.  It is normal and usual to get certain documents from the US Embassy such as the letter of non-impediment.  If you do the right documents in the USA, and prepare them properly before traveling, it should be fairly simple.

You weren't married by signing paperwork before a ceremony.  The Ukrainian RAGS (Ukrainian version of what we commonly call ZAGS) requires you to sign documents for a future marriage license approximately 30 days or more in advance of a scheduled ceremony.  (For a little well placed cash this requirement can sometimes go away.) Then on the day of the ceremony you arrive and again sign paperwork before the ceremony begins. 

However you are not married until, during the RAGS ceremony, the officiant calls you to sit at a desk and sign the final wedding document.  You're almost married then.  But you must wait until she signs them herself a few minutes later and then presents you to the wedding guests as man and wife.

Did your lady tell you that you were married by signing papers before a ceremony?

Seems like you better learn a little Russian or Ukrainian. 

Fast.

[Ravens9273]

mendeleyev

Have no idea what you are talking about.
The wedding palace would not accept any documents from USA nor would any Apostile Certify any documents from USA. Believe me went visited many trying to avoid a trip to Kiev. They will not certify them because they do not know if documents issued outside Ukraine are real.
When going to USA embassy there were 5 other American Men doing the same thing as me. All also came with paperwork from USA and they also said no one would accept.
I did not get this information from reading. I did not get it from others telling me. I got this information from actual experience.
Also we were legally married at wedding palace from signing the paperwork. This was said by wedding palace etc... Had legal documents as well.
Like I said. I know this from experience. Been there done that and not heard or read second hand.
Also I might add that I am not the only one here who has said this and gone through this process. Others here also have said the same who married in Ukraine. So what I said has been said before and not just me talking.

[BC]

mendeleyev

Have no idea what you are talking about.
The wedding palace would not accept any documents from USA nor would any Apostile Certify any documents from USA. Believe me went visited many trying to avoid a trip to Kiev. They will not certify them because they do not know if documents issued outside Ukraine are real.
When going to USA embassy there were 5 other American Men doing the same thing as me. All also came with paperwork from USA and they also said no one would accept.

When we married in RU, all the documents i.e. divorce decrees etc had to be apostiled first in the country of origin - where they were issued.  Then had to go to the US consulate to notarize the certificate of no impediment which in turn was legalized at the RU Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  Only then would a local ZAGS office accept the documents and arrange the wedding.

Apostille info: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=15

Apostille and legalization are not the same procedures.

[Ronnie]

mendeleyev

Have no idea what you are talking about.
The wedding palace would not accept any documents from USA nor would any Apostile Certify any documents from USA. Believe me went visited many trying to avoid a trip to Kiev. They will not certify them because they do not know if documents issued outside Ukraine are real.

Ravens,  That's the whole point of apostilled documents.  So they know they are valid.  That's why it has to go from your state's secretary of State to the US Secretary of State to the Ukrainian embassy in Washington DC.  Then the docs are acceptable.  In my case the document was a divorcee decree.  In your case, I dunno, but you seem to have not done your homework before you left the states where the apostille would have been done.

Mendeleyev was absolutely correct in his explanations  In the future, you should not undertake matters without an attorney.  Just my opinion. 

BTW, apostille is not a person.

[Ravens9273]

Ronnie what you just did was to help me prove my point.
Look at what you just described? Going through along process to get the paperwork into Ukraine hands to get certified.
I said plainly they will not accept paperwork coming from US. Excuse me that to people like you this needs to be spelled out to a T in meaning yet you want to imply all the time I have no sense and need help.
You just described now paperwork had to come from Ukraine still if going through Embassy.
OK for those who need it spelled out as to what I was saying is basically paperwork coming from USA meaning straight from USA. USA notarized, or court signed etc... will not work in Ukraine. Does this now spell it out for you?

In Ukraine they will not certify or legalize this paperwork either if brought this way.
So I did not say anything wrong. Many others here understood it. Understood what I said. Many others here have said the same thing I said pretty much word for word who married in Ukraine and also did not spell it out to a T.

Also you explained this long process to have to do in the US to get from State Secretary, to US secretary, to Ukraine Embassy then everyone is still saying having to go to US embassy for letter of impediment.
Well I did not do your long process and I was fine. I went to US Embassy only for paperwork needed. Now as once again as you claim I know absolutely nothing. I need all legal help with anything because I do not have your superior brain power but somehow I managed to get it done without this extremely long process you mentioned. Considering all. I think I would rather keep the level of intelligence I have thank you.

[Ravens9273]

Actually I will have to write here again to spell it out perfectly for those few.

When first deciding to marry in Ukraine and checking on what was needed to be done to do so I was told I needed to bring proof I was able to marry.

This would be proof of being single.
Proof of divorce if divorced
Proof of being widowed if widowed.

I have never been married so I was told I needed to bring proof of being single.

Now this is paperwork that cannot come from courts or be notorized in USA and be accepted in Ukraine.

Now to make a long story short.

None of this meant anything when it came down to it.

This is adzactly what happened to me. I was sent to US Embassy to get letter of impediment.

This letter was ALL that was needed in my case. Was not asked for any proof of being single. Any proof of being divorced, and proof of being widowed. The letter of impediment which everyone will have to go to US Embassy to get and no way around it was all that was needed.
That was my situation.

[Ronnie]

My comment proved no point you made, mainly because your situation was not like mine, from what I understand.  You weren't married before, I believe.

You have repeatedly said they (Ukraine) will not accept paperwork from the United States.  You did not describe what paperwork or whether it was apostilled in the states or not.  Where will a divorce decree, aka "paperwork," come from if not from the country where the divorce occurred? 

If you were not married before, what paperwork would you have brought with you exactly?  A notarized letter stating there is no impediment to divorce?  Of course that could not be accepted as is. It would be in English first of all, and a local notary stamp would mean nothing to Ukrainian bureaucrats. 

If that's what you were trying to say, you could have been more precise.  Saying Ukraine won't accept paperwork from the US is quite imprecise and inaccurate in the case of properly apostilled documents.

Again, an apostille is not a person, unless you were thinking of Peter, James, Paul.....nevermind.. 

The two big questions now for the K3 and I-130 are "where and when were you married?"  I'm still not clear from your various comments and how will you complete the I-864 Affidavit of Support if you having filed tax returns.  Not saying you can't resolve these on your own, but you do have a peculiar set of circumstances to navigate.

[Jet]

It is normal and usual to get certain documents from the US Embassy such as the letter of non-impediment.  If you do the right documents in the USA, and prepare them properly before traveling, it should be fairly simple.

Then had to go to the US consulate to notarize the certificate of no impediment which in turn was legalized at the RU Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  Only then would a local ZAGS office accept the documents and arrange the wedding.

Mendeleyev and BC are precisely correct as Ronnie told you already.

Actually I will have to write here again to spell it out perfectly for those few.

When first deciding to marry in Ukraine and checking on what was needed to be done to do so I was told I needed to bring proof I was able to marry.

This would be proof of being single.

I have never been married so I was told I needed to bring proof of being single.

Now this is paperwork that cannot come from courts or be notorized in USA and be accepted in Ukraine.

This is adzactly what happened to me. I was sent to US Embassy to get letter of impediment.

This letter was ALL that was needed in my case. Was not asked for any proof of being single. Any proof of being divorced, and proof of being widowed. The letter of impediment which everyone will have to go to US Embassy to get and no way around it was all that was needed.
That was my situation.

First Ravens, it is a letter of NON-impediment. More precisely, a letter stating there is no impediment you you being able to marry. More precisely yet, a sworn oath that you are SINGLE (a previous marriage that has not been terminated through divorce, annulment, or death would be an IMPEDIMENT to your ability to marry this apparently lucky lucky girl in Ukraine). The only reason Ronnie, and BC, and several others brought up the point about apostilled documents is because YOU did. Furthermore Ronnie's statement:

  That's why it has to go from your state's secretary of State to the US Secretary of State to the Ukrainian embassy in Washington DC.  Then the docs are acceptable. 

was also precisely correct, whether or not it applied to you in your personal situation. Had you been divorced previously or widowed, you would absolutely have needed these documents IN ADDITION to the letter of non-impediment. So don't go jumping their sh!t because you were unclear. They were all 100% correct.

[William3rd]

William, sorry to contradict you, but my wife did indeed arrive just fine.  There was only one "error" that I made in submitting the paperwork.  They asked for proof of my citizenship in the form of either a copy of a valid passport or birth certificate.  Because i hadn't received my birth certificate copy yet, I sent the passport copy.  They sent a RFE asking for the birth certificate instead, which I had by then and promptly sent.  Total delay, less than 2 weeks.  This was not so much an error as it was faulty information in the NCIS instructions.

There was a second "error" on my wife's part.  She was asked for a copy of her passport and she sent a copy of her internal passport.  Even though they should have known that Ukirainians have two separate passports, there was no distinction made in the instructions.  When they sent the RFE, they said that they had not received the passport, rather than that we had sent the wrong one and it took a couple of phone calls to finally figure out what they wanted.  Then all it required was to e-mail them with a copy of the passport attached, which took all of one day.

These are both things that an immigration attorney might have picked up on, maybe not.

The other delays in getting my wife to the US related to our decision to have me return to the US before the application was complete.  Since we had all the paperwork going to Ukraine, this resulted in delays only because of the mail transit time and had nothing to do with any mistakes on my or her part.  This delayed things a couple of months but even using an attorney wouldn't have changed this any.

I wish I had known of visajourney before I started the paperwork, because it took some digging to find the best ways to submit the paperwork, but once I knew the process, it was a no brainer.  Sure it required digging up documents, etc., but I would have had to do that anyway if I had hired an attorney.  The only thing an attorney would have done for me is to assemble the paperwork that I provided and send it.  hardly worth $2000.

I have heard that applications sent by attorneys take longer to process than those sent by individuals, but I don't have any statistics to back this up.  I have also heard from those who have used attorneys about their frustrations with their lack of promptness in submitting the paperwork, which has caused delays much longer than mine were.

I at one time contacted Holmes and Lolly to inquire about their services.  i lost all respect for them when their fee suddenly jumped from $1800 to $2500 once they learned that i was a physician.

The bottom line for me is that, looking back, I'm glad that I did it myself.  Once I knew what they wanted, it really wasn't that difficult.  I would also agree that the CR-1 is the way to go based on our experiences since my wife arrived in the US.

William, I seriously doubt that an immigration attorney will charge double to fix problems that might come up if the application is screwed up.  There's enough competition that many would be happy for the work.

THere was also the matter of the mis identified common embassy form as well that any person familiar with the process would have recognized, which cost you a few weeks. Or am I thinking of ScottinMesopotamia?

[mendeleyev]

Ravens, you probably believe many of us to be picking on you and for that I apologize.  It's just that your story has a lot of gaping holes.  However maybe we can do something in this thread to get it back on track.  Maybe we can go thru your experience and help newer guys who came to this thread for education and advice.

So let's set the stage.  You are perhaps the newest guy to be married.  I'm still confused as to where the marriage took place since you've told of a ceremony in Jamaica or somewhere like that, but also said that you were married by signing papers at a RAGS in Ukraine.  Even if I doubt your Ukrainian marriage (and I most certainly do), lets help the newby who has stopped by.

You and I together can do that.  You are the latest and certainly have that experience.  I'm no slouch when it comes to FSU weddings either, having been married at ZAGS myself, attended dozens of weddings since my family lives in Russia for extended periods and in a capacity as a media professional covering certain persons who were married, and sometime ago wrote an extensive work on FSU wedding ceremonies and customs...including what goes on inside a RAGS/ZAGS.  So you and I, together, have the experience to walk guys thru this process.

Ready?


(Photos:  Bread is an important symbol in Ukrainian weddings and wedding loaves form the basic for several traditions which are practiced during the wedding celebration.)

[mendeleyev]

Ravens, let's show the 'newby' what are the documents required for a western man to be married in Ukraine, as taken from the Ukrainian Consular website in San Francisco:

Pursuant to Article 195 of the Code of Laws on Marriage and Family of Ukraine, a Ukrainian citizen, or a citizen of a foreign state, can enter into a marriage with a foreign national on the territory of Ukraine on a general basis, i.e. in compliance with the terms of Articles 15 and 17 of the Code of Laws on Marriage and Family of Ukraine.

The Ukrainian civil marriage process can take several weeks to several months. If you are marrying another American, or a third-country national, Ukrainian authorities require that one of the parties be present in Ukraine - for an unspecified period of several months - before they can register their marriage in Ukraine.

To marry a Ukrainian citizen, a U.S. citizen should follow these step-by-step instructions.

If you have been married before, please make sure that you have the original divorce decree or death certificate properly authenticated in the U.S.

Since Ukraine acceded to the 1961 Hague Convention abolishing Requirement of Legalization for Foreign Public Documents, the U.S. documents destined for use in Ukraine should be certified by one of the officials in the jurisdiction in which the document has been executed. Said official must have been designated as competent to issue certifications by "apostille" (usually in the office of the State Secretary of State of his/her counterpart).
Fill out a Letter of Non-Impediment to Marriage ("marriage letter") at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv.

This form (in English and Ukrainian) contains basic information and is a sworn statement that you are not currently married. It must be signed only in the presence of a Consular Officer and, as for a notarial service, there is a fee of $30. At the same time you can obtain the forms and instructions necessary for filing an immigration petition with the Embassy or at your local INS office in the U.S.

Authenticate the "Letter" at the Legalization Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine , located in Kyiv at 2 Velyka Zhytomyrska, tel: 238-1815, 253-1266, 212-8392, 238-1669, any working day of the week except Thursday from 9:30 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. (accepting documents) and 4:00 p.m. - 5.30 p.m. (returning documents).
The application fee is 8 Hryvnas for each document. The legalization fee is 8.50 Hryvnas (about $1.5) for Ukrainian citizens, 17 Hrivnas (about $3) for foreign citizens and 85 Hrivnas (about $16) for legal entities per document for next-day service. For one-day expediting service one has to pay a double fee. The fee must be paid to account 141924 of the National Bank of Ukraine in any neighborhood.

Obtain a certified translation of the data page of your passport, any annulment decrees, divorce decrees or death certificates of your former spouse(s) (if you were previously married), and the letter of non-impediment to marriage.

To arrange for your marriage, take all the documents, including your original passport (with a translation), the authenticated original death or divorce decree (if any) (with translation), and the authenticated Letter of Non-Impediment to Marriage, with translation to RAGS - the civil registrar's office in the hometown of your fiance(e).
The Central RAGS in Kyiv is located at 11 Prospekt Peremogy, tel: 236-0071. The person who deals with marriages to foreigners can be reached at 236-0243 or 236-0147.


Note to the 'newby' (sorry), Russia also requires a copy (Apostilled) of your birth certificate. 

[mendeleyev]

Ravens, by now you probably realize that it wasn't that Ukraine didn't accept your documents.  Likely, since you don't understand Russian or Ukrainian and your girl isn't a native English speaker, what transpired is that you had to take your Apostilled documents to various offices to be:

1) Translated in Ukrainian
2) Those tranlations of your Apostilled documents then needed to be notarized as valid translations.

That is normal and usual.  Nothing special. 

Documents from one country to another are legally binding when those documents have a valid APOSTILLE stamp (a fancy notarization available only from a Secretary of State).  To understand more about that, here is a link to the appropiate HAGUE CONVENTIONS which make such documents valid via International Law:  http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=text.display&tid=37


Ravens, why don't you explain to the new guys how you traveled to your Secretary of State's office and how you obtained the Apostille stamps/signatures for your documents?  (This will be very helpful for new guys who don't yet share our experience.)

[mendeleyev]

Ravens, let's show the other guys what a RAGS wedding is like.  On video!

It's a quick ceremony so there is absolutely no time to run to the fridge for a beer! 



This ceremony will be over in 6 minutes, 12 seconds.  You'll see a western guy being prompted by his lady when to respond and to his credit it seems they've practiced.  At 2 minutes into the ceremony they sign the wedding documents.  Now they still aren't married until the officiant pronounces them as 'muzh e zhena' (husband and wife) and she countersigns the document.

The documents:

- First the couple must apply for a wedding license.  That is done about 30 days prior.
- On the day of the wedding the couple will sign a series of documents BEFORE the wedding ceremony.  These documents pertain to several things including her official name change (you sign to give her permission to use your name), a signed application to change her internal and external passports.  RAGS will start the passport changes but they take days to weeks to complete--so it you travel somewhere on a honeymoon better to hold on to her External passport until returning and be prepared for her to travel using her maiden name otherwise things will get complicated fast.
- During the ceremony (as shown in the video) more documents are signed.
- Finally AFTER the ceremony a couple of documents are waiting your signatures.  This is the FSU where signatures and stamps trump just about anything else.


Raven you didn't just bop in and 'sign to be married' without a full RAGS workup and ceremony.  (Her family would have certainly wanted to be a part of it.)  I'm thinking you applied for a wedding license and then later traveled to the Jamacian (?) resort after changing your minds as to where the ceremony would take place.  (Or maybe the documents were so incomplete that you had to travel to marry?)



Note:  The agency which completes and issues passports in Ukraine is VVIR (Ukrainian Office of Visas and Registration).

Wedding towels tradition:  These appear first at the proposal of marriage, made to the lady's parents, with your lady waiting in the background until the parents have spoken "yes" or "no" to the man's representatives (he is present but silent).  The couple first is tied together with these towels when entering the RAGS (and later the church), in some traditions they stand of the towels during a part of the ceremony, and afterward the bride saves the towels to be used in the church baptisms of future children.

[mendeleyev]

Some days later your lady will travel again to RAGS to collect the finished (stamped and recorded) marriage registration. 

It will look like this first photo.  It just won't be a wedding cake!

Ravens, to apply for the K-3, the man needs a translated (into English) and notarized copy of this wedding registration as part of the application packet.  Any advice for guys on getting the translation and notarization done here?


And since she needs the original there to accomplish some legal changes, but at the same time he needs to have the original here for the K3, tell our new guys how to obtain an official copy (with the required raised embossed seal) to bring back home? 

[ScottinCrimea]

THere was also the matter of the mis identified common embassy form as well that any person familiar with the process would have recognized, which cost you a few weeks. Or am I thinking of ScottinMesopotamia?

I may be one of the ones here earning a senility rating, but I have no idea what you are talking about.  I don't recall misidentifying any forms or any related delays because of it.

As for some of the information given here, some of it is just plain wrong and much of it is confusing.  I found the same mix of questionable and unclear information when I was going through the marriage process and it took a lot of searching to find the correct process.  For clarification, I was married at a ZAGS in Crimea and the director of the ZAGS who married us later became one of our best friends.  If anyone has any specific questions on their situation that I can't answer with 100% certainty I can check with her.

Here is what I did, and it seemed to work just fine for us.

I obtained an official copy of my birth certificate.  I then sent it to the office of the Secretary of State in the state where I was born with the appropriate request forms and a payment of $30. (this information was obtained online).  About a week later I had it with the apostille attached.

I next obtained a certified copy of my divorce decree (I specifically asked them for a certified copy, which cost a little more)  I then took this to the local office of the Secretary of State in Fresno and requested an apostille.  They have copies of the signatures of all notaries and others in the state who can sign certified copies.  I returned in 3 days to retrieve the document with the apostille attached.

Neither of these requires that it be sent to any federal office or Ukrainian consulate for further certification (contrary to what some have written here).

In Ukraine, I obtained a certified translation of my passport.

For the non-impediment to marriage form, the previous posters are right.  In MOST cases, this requires a trip to Kiev.  I was lucky in that the US consule made a scheduled trip to Simferopol to meet with ex-pats there (only 2 blocks from where I lived) and I was able to get this at that time.  This involved the payment of the required fee ( I believe it was $10, which had to be in US dollars), raising the right hand and swearing that there was no impediment to the marriage.  I was given a signed and stamped form which was in both English and Ukrainian and so did not require further translation.

This must then be authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is in Kiev.  I don't know if this is the case in all large cities in Ukraine or because Crimea is an autonomous republic, but there was a ministry of foreign affairs in Simferopol (one block from my apartment) and they were able to provide this authentication.

I then took these documents to another government office (I don't recall the name, but typical of Ukraine it was across town from every other office).  We went early and waited in line a long time, so plan on this.  After the papers were checked, we were given a form to take across the street to a bank to make the required payment.  We then returned with the receipt and waited in line again to give them this paper.  We returned a few days later (again waiting in line) and got the document approving my paperwork.

We next took this to ZAGS (another long line), the documents were reviewed and we were given a choice of dates for our marriage.  There is a waiting period of 30 days, but this can be circumvented either with a cash gift or a note from a doctor (also obtained with a "gift') that your fiancee is pregnant.

In addition to the marriage documents, we both received a stamp in our passports recording the marriage. We received these back before the ceremony and joked that we could now just skip the ceremony, but without the signed and stamped documents following the ceremony it really wasn't official.

My wife also joked around when we were filling out the form asking us which last name we would use.  I really didn't want her ex-husband's Armenian last name so I stood firm.  .

It all really wasn't as difficult as it appears when one tries to decipher the official websites and unofficial advice offered.  As far as the next steps such as her name changes on her passports, immigration forms, etc., I won't go into that now.

Where Raven was married in Jamaica, I don't know that he needs to have the marriage registered in Ukraine if they have no plans to live there, or what the consequences are either way regarding assets, etc.  This might be an interesting discussion in another thread, though.

[mendeleyev]

Scott, for any infor thats wrong kindly contact the Ukrainian Consulate in SF and have them update their website.

In reading your account, I didn't see where we had any clash of info?

[ScottinCrimea]

mendeleyev, why would you think I was referring to you?  We had no clash of info, as you put it.  The statement that I considered misleading was this one by Ronnie, which Jet than declared was 100% correct.

Ravens,  That's the whole point of apostilled documents.  So they know they are valid.  That's why it has to go from your state's secretary of State to the US Secretary of State to the Ukrainian embassy in Washington DC.  Then the docs are acceptable.  In my case the document was a divorcee decree.  In your case, I dunno, but you seem to have not done your homework before you left the states where the apostille would have been done.

Referring to the website of the Ukrainian consulate in SF, here is what they say:

"Ukraine's accession means that the "authentication chain" will no longer be required. Instead, U.S. documents destined for use in Ukraine (and Ukrainian documents to be used in the U.S.) should be certified by one of the officials in the jurisdiction in which the document has been executed. Said official must have been designated as competent to issue certifications by "apostille".

In the U.S. it is the office of the Secretary of State or his/her counterpart in the State where the original document was produced"

Nowhere does it mention the US Secretary of State or the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington as required in the issuing of apostilles.  This makes the process sound more diffcult than it really is and indeed might induce some to feel that they need an attorney to prepare the marriage documents when it is really a pretty straight-forward step by step process.  The problem I had was in being able to find anywhere that the process was outlined step by step instead of peacemeal.

[Jet]

mendeleyev, why would you think I was referring to you?  We had no clash of info, as you put it.  The statement that I considered misleading was this one by Ronnie, which Jet than declared was 100% correct.

Misleading perhaps, but I do believe I added enough qualifiers to my statement to clarify my intent. Ravens stated he was wandering around Ukraine looking for an Apostille, like he was searching for the wizard of Oz. Ronnie corrected him twice about the fact that an Apostille was a document certification, not a person, and when he seemed still not to "get it" Ronnie elaborated by specifically illustrating the Apostille process. His illustration was correct, and I backed that up as this information is useful to others who may be going through the process where an Apostilled document is required, even if Ravens did not have that specific need right now.