What do you think about this fellow?

[KenC]

Okay, I'm really, really sorry (NOT!) that I'm married to a fantastic woman! Hope that helps... 

Darn it! I don't pass the rug wall hanging test either. Does a Russian flag count? Or a map of Russia? Maybe for a couple of sympathy points? 

On Topic:
While there are always exceptions I believe that most victims of this type of situation (similar to those who end up sending money to scammers) create the majority of their own problems from delusional thinking and behaviors.

Ken

Catz,
I have to agree with your statement 100%.  Another "key" to Maxx' mindset IMO is his reference to "white knights."  I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly did not "save" Lena from anything.  If anything she walked away from a promising career to be with me.  Her motivation was love and not some promised better lifestyle.  When guys like Maxx "use" their superior financial position to attract a woman, why do they think that the relationship will some how turn into a great love story later on? 

If love wasn't the primary motivating factor from the beginning, there is bound to be trouble down the road.
KenC

[Jet]

  ALRIGHT! I admit it! I'm the guy with the rug hanging on the wall!  One stinkin' 4 X 6 in the boy's room...

Am I kicked out of the man hater's club now? 

[Faux Pas]

ALRIGHT! I admit it! I'm the guy with the rug hanging on the wall!  One stinkin' 4 X 6 in the boy's room...

Am I kicked out of the man hater's club now? 

Sounds like you got a lot of "splainin" to do 

[catzenmouse]

ALRIGHT! I admit it! I'm the guy with the rug hanging on the wall!  One stinkin' 4 X 6 in the boy's room...

Am I kicked out of the man hater's club now? 

As this is your first offense we'll probably just hand out a stern warning and put it in your permanent file...

[KenC]

Jet!!!!!!!!!!!
You are soooooooooooo PW!

 


Some how the club name got twisted here!
KenC

[Maxx2]

Actually I like all you guys (even KenC) and think of you as shirt tail e-family. I posted here and tweaked you guys knowing that you would let me have it. It has it's uses. As I have said before I have a new website that is for support and information for immigration marriage fraud victims. I need to know how outsiders view these guys and gals (about third of our members are American women). I am having some of our members read this so they can see the hostilities and suspicions of those who are accused by an immigrant spouse.  

In regard to "weak men" as KenC calls them. Some of these people are so shattered and in such an emotional state that it stuns them into paralysis for a while. Sometimes their emotions get so worked up they end up sacrificing themselves trying to do one more act of kindness (foolishness) hoping their spouse will turn around. As in the letter to me below says "his weakness" because he hasn't "kicked her to the curb" using one of KenC's expressions.


Maxx, sorry its me again.

I just want to let you know that I am sending a guy to your site.

He is a USC, and in a bad way. He is still with his wife unfortunately, but there is a lot going on, and I will leave him to give you the details, as I don't want to betray his confidence.

I am very worried about him, he is such a kind and considerate man, which really is his weakness. He needs to put himself first, instead of worrying about her and the potential immigration problems that lie ahead if he goes through the divorce or kicks her out.

He needs a lot of emotional support and advice, and maybe coming from you, it may help somewhat from men and victims like him.

I will tell him to mention my name so you know who he is.

please help him, he is a wonderful guy, that is purely being defrauded and used and needs to get out of the marriage quickly.

Thank you,  

Immigrant woman

Here's a second letter from her.

Posted 05-10-2008 08:26 PM
Hi Max,

I totally agree with you and understand completely, hence why this guy Mike, his situation is close to my heart. I don't want him to have to go through what a lot of you guys have gone through already.

He has gone through so much, and because he is a nice guy and confused, his wife is going to destroy him totally and most likely going to ruin his future too.

If he was closer I already told him I would be kidnapping him right now, just so she can't keep manipulating and destroying him.

He knows what I say is true and will happen, but he doesn't have the strength or willpower to stop it all happening. I think talking to you will hopefully give him some extra support and convince him what he should do is the right thing.

He has a conscience and he feels that if he does something to stop her having her GC, he is doing wrong, that whatever happens to her, like deportation or no place to live, its his fault.

There is a step child involved in this too, which makes it double difficult for his conscience because he is close to the child and worried for his safety.

I told him he has to put himself first, and he knows it, but he gets weak moments and gives in, or takes her back.

I'll let him give you the rest of the details, I sure hope he will call you.
He is staying over a friends for the moment, so it would be easier for him to call from there.

I think the hardest thing in all this, is the mental scars, failure(which no way anyone should be) and of course hurt for being used.
Not knowing whether the love was real or not, and all those many questions that are running through your heads, was that real, was that fake and so on.

I do understand I really do, and it makes me sick that people can do this to someone.
Whether it is for the Green card or not, it is mental torture amongst other things and ruins lives.

Everyone who knows me and my situ, including my lawyer, they all keep telling me that I was scammed. I am not sure to be honest, maybe I am in denial myself, but I have also questioned myself as to what was real or not in my marriage.
Of course he wasn't doing it to get a GC, but apart from money and other things, I can't understand why he did so many things to me, which was not human or sane.

Anyway...please let me know if he calls you, it will give me peace of mind.

Thank you Max, I appreciate it.

One more question for you guys. Should tell these people that ask me for advise or send people to me to go to hell?  


Maxx

P.S. I skim read your criticism of me and don't let your harsh words sink in. I know you like me  

P.S.S. Jet, I always wondered if you were one of those wall rug wearing guys. But with it being in Nico's room there is hope for you.     

[KenC]

Maxx,
I really do not see the "hostilities" toward you that you speak of here.  Even though you seem intent on provoking some sort of conflict here, I really do not understand your point.  We ALL feel bad for you and other men that have been falsely accused of DV.  Really and truly.  But my God man, get over your pity party and get on with your life!
KenC

[Maxx2]

I'm feeling fine Ken. This stuff doesn't bother me anymore (for at least few years now). I am just trying do something I know something about.

 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Maxx,
I really do not see the "hostilities" toward you that you speak of here.  Even though you seem intent on provoking some sort of conflict here, I really do not understand your point.  We ALL feel bad for you and other men that have been falsely accused of DV.  Really and truly.  But my God man, get over your pity party and get on with your life!
KenC

I don't know Ken.  I am not sure Maxx is still living in the past or just trying to help people out.  Maxx seems to be helping a lot of people through some tough times which is great.  As long as Maxx is living his life and keeping everything in balance than I don't see the big deal.  He definately has a good sense of humor about certain remarks which is one of the reasons I think the way I do.


Thomas

[Maxx2]

AJ, I'll answer your questions


i have serioius question for you.

Would you ,now ,if dating a woman of any nationality, continue to date any woman that
had the bizarre behaviour your ex  sometimes displayed?
(yes before you brought her here)

Nope, not if you threatened to zap me with a tazer. The bazaar behavior at the time seemed like it had rational explanations. Also I remember what a Russian woman had told me before this in her own words "all Russian women are strange". In my case my ex's not wanting me to meet family and friends was supposedly on account of her violent ex-husband and what he would do to her. Since he worked in a police academy teaching hand to hand combat (I had this confirmed later by Elena Garrett's detectives *) he had connections with the police to stop her from taking her son out of the country.       

Would you,now , ever get yourself in a position of being physically abused ,as the
man in your story did?

Nope again, I would leave. Once a spouse does anything major physical it is time to pack it in. I say major because I know sometimes some of these women pinch and twist your arm and grab things violently out of your hands. I had this happen to me but it was that time of the month for her. Do you end a marriage for something like that? I wouldn't dismiss this conduct lightly. In my case most of the 4 months we were together here in the US I was lining up lawyers. So I threw in the towel after a month of trying.    

my hope, and  guess is after your experience-   no you wouldn't..!!
even though you would have empthey for a guy that does so.

Yes, you have me figured out there.

you think all "us guys" ,are so much below your standards ,that we cant or dont feel the same?

That's weird Maxx.

I do not believe you practice "presumed innocence" with men accused of abuse by Russian women. I believe you and the guys her have a bias towards Russian women. It is part of your misguided chivalrous nature. That is why it feels good to doubt the men and support the women. This is normal with men in general and it is the foundation on which VAWA was built upon.  

you know , there is an alternate possibilty.
that while "us guys" do empathize,

a bit

that "us guys"  sometimes  recognize that in many of these cases the victim does have some responcibilty,

Many of these cases yes, but not all. Like that Happiness guy. He went ahead and took a chance that his fiancee would straighten out even though he discovered her having her girlfriend pimp for her with other men. Her later getting involved with other men after he married her. Well he bears the pain of it for not sending her back when he had the chance. Then sometimes with these guys their motives were pure and their actions done without knowing that they were being scammed.

and sometimes was emotionally crippled or in a position of more vulnerabilty.

it doesnt make the criminal right in anyway,
and it doesnt make the victim any less of a victim.

Agreed

and it doesnt mean that the victim was exceedibly vulnerble ,or emotionally crippled, in in every case, and normal enough guys get scammed.
but your posted example , is an odd one for "proving" that to "us guys"?

I was looking for criticism of this fellow for a reason.

You really think this woman could have pulled off that behavour with "just" anyone?
 or was this new immigrant a perfect target?

No, and I told the other administrator that his being whipped by her would send out a false signal that most men that are defrauded tolerate major physical abuse. From what I noticed the immigrant spouse, man or woman assaults the USC just once and that leads to an immediate marriage breakup. Usually with him the USC being dragged off to jail for her assault on him. Though this is not the case with immigrant men. Of the four cases I know where the immigrant man assaults his American wife the police do nothing. It must be the 'hands off policy' that immigrants get with police.

Also I do not think he is a new immigrant as he spent a number of years at the American university. He admits to being a feminist and with that usually comes being a liberal and with that attitude of being understanding and tolerant towards immigrants and women. So that may have something to do with how he conducted himself.

That is not looking down on him maxx, its recognizing he was the perfect target.

A perfect target because he didn't have a clue about VAWA and what would happen if it was used against him.

if you want to continue to believe it was just "luck" that guided this maniac woman to him.. go ahead. 
because it makes you feel better that just "bad luck " guided elvira to you?

Bad luck? AJ there were over 7000 women on the Angelika website and I did my WOVO with only two of them. First was Irina. She believed that her sister, mother and the local mafia where conspiring together to take away her apartment by beaming sound waves at her. As one Russian woman told me about her "All Russian women are strange". I knew she was more that strange. The second woman I wrote to was Elvira. She was a mountain of stability in comparison to Irina. If I had done a WMVM, knew about boards like this, knew what a WMVW was, got some American like KenC got at LTP to advise him about the game, I would have been lucky. I have met allot of Russian women and with a few exceptions they seemed quite decent and not like the two I had been involved with.

 
if you want to continue to imply we have no empathy ,or look down on him,or you,
its your opinion, and its misguided.

The guy was in a vulnerable position,(by his newly immigrated status if nothing else)
we all are at times,
 and a shark took advantage.

I have covered this

Maybe our biggest sin is being jaded maxx..

I'm jaded to.


Maxx
* I didn't tell Elena Garrett the details about my ex's ex. E.G.s' detectives told me these details that I already knew. This happened a number of times. That is why I know that they are not making things up but conduct legitimate investigation. The investigation was for the divorce and it helped me attain a zero settlement for her.

     

[KenC]

Maxx,
Above you wrote:

I do not believe you practice "presumed innocence" with men accused of abuse by Russian women. I believe you and the guys her have a bias towards Russian women. It is part of your misguided chivalrous nature. That is why it feels good to doubt the men and support the women. This is normal with men in general and it is the foundation on which VAWA was built upon. 

This is total hogwash, Maxx.  First, we have always accepted your side of your story even though to be fair, we should keep an open mind to the other possibility.  To my knowledge we have only heard your story from you without any corroboration.  Any man here married to a RW would know that there are RW out there capable of what Elvira pulled on you.

My criticism of you has always been that you need to shoulder some of the blame for being so damn naive and not evaluating Elvira clearly.  Too many guys, like you, say damn the torpedoes(red flags), full speed ahead and then when their boat is sunk come here and seek our sympathy.  Well, I do feel sorry for you, but not as much as you obviously need.

If I had done a WMVM, knew about boards like this, knew what a WMVW was, got some American like KenC got at LTP to advise him about the game, I would have been lucky. I have met allot of Russian women and with a few exceptions they seemed quite decent and not like the two I had been involved with.

  Blame anybody but yourself, Maxx.  yeah, that's the ticket.  Who picked these crazy women?  You did!  Just because Elvira was a little less crazy than your first choice didn't make her sane, now did it?  You want to see who the responsible party is to all this, go look in a mirror!

BTW, your idea of me being so lucky because Americans at LTP were advising me is also hogwash.  Steve M (who worked for LTP at the time I met Lena) just posted in my T/R that he and every other American working for LTP at the time thought that our relationship would never last!  We are ALL responsible for our own actions and decisions, good and bad.  I didn't have any better sources to rely on when I made my decision than when you made yours, I just made a much smarter decision.  And even then, I played it cautious.  I didn't marry Lena in Russia.  I didn't bring her here even on a K-1.  I waited until I was confortable enough with our relationship to proceed into marriage.  If you had done the same, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.  You married a loony woman and you are still paying the price for your impatience.
KenC

[Ronnie]

Jet, You confess to having a 4x6 rug hanging on your wall?
Hmmm, let me look that up in my pocket-sized UCAHC (Uniform Code of American Husband Conduct)......here it is.. "rugs - See toupee"  nope that's not.....Ah found it!.. "Rugs - hung on wall"...4" x 6"? Oh, that's only an infraction!  Any larger would have been a misdemeanor punishable by up to ...Wait...there's a footnote: "Rugs measuring 24 sq. ft. or less are considered infractions unless hung in plain view of guests, in which case see: HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS 

Yikes :hairraising: Jet! You coulda been impeached...Thrown out of your office!

The infraction won't go on your record after you pay the fine.

[Maxx2]

Gee Ken I have admitted to my naivety. In fact over at RWG I painted such a portrait of myself and my limited worldly knowledge that Bucky blushed for me. Actually he sent me a PM advising me to edit it but I didn't. Heck I was practically Amish and just as naive. What I was and what all that happened to me as a result of my being too trusting and knowing this doesn't mean I deny cause and effect. Go over there and be a open book to everyone and you're going to get burnt. I know this now. That is why I tell my story on these boards because I hope people will learn from it. But you see it as me making excuses for myself. I think the reason you think this way is because this is not something you would ever do. You always present your best side as an example of success to others. I do just the opposite and for my own reasons.

Maxx

[Jumper]

Maxx-
thanks for the explanations,your thread makes a bit more sense now,
and it gives me hope that you are indeed healing and just
helping people in general from the *experience*.

i was worried you had taken a few serious steps backwards.
Glad you seem to be doing well,and have kept your sense of humor,which beforehand was lacking from this thread.
i am sorry you dated two true loony tunes maxx.

I do not believe you practice "presumed innocence" with men accused of abuse by Russian women.

i know you meant this "in general" to us *he-men men haters club*
 members here..lol

but it says  "I do not believe you"

nothing could be further from the case in my instance.

i believed your story, in its entirety ,,from the start,.

did i give you grief about your being so  naive? yes!!
and like you said , you did readily admit it,  and laid it all out there.
I always admired that and told you so,,and that you had probably helped a lot of people from that act.
and yes i had more than *a bit* of empathy for you, and you know that.

do i believe *every story* that comes thru here?
no ,
because quite frankly maxx,
a LOT of stories just dont make any sense,and after years in these boards i have seen far too many of these stories ,when played out ,the  man (or woman) of course left out some very significant details and facts.
(heck you did in your example posted here )

if its doesnt "seem right" or make sense,, something is likely being hidden ,or held back,
 and likely not for a good reason.

your story was quite easy to believe,
 because it made sense, you did not hold anything back,..
and anyone could buy that it was factual.

just because i dont believe every tale of woe that comes thru the net,
  doesnt mean i have no empathy ,or do not presume innocence.

it means it's the internet, i dont "just" randomly believe everything i read regardless of a man or woman posting it,,or thier nationality.
RW do not get some easy "pass", here,, its amazing you can even think that seeing
 how most are run off quickly..

 anyway  people in trouble often tell all kinds of stories..half truths and twisted facts.
and thier tales often sound a bit "off", or simply  dont jive with other things they have posted..

yes i do  remember *happiness*
and that was one weird situation,,and man it seems he really put himself into the middle of it..with eyes wide shut.

I remember the PA guy too, who told half the story .
was he used and abused ? absolutely.
Did he mislead a bit about his own involvments and  behaviours? it seems so.

how about the NYC guy?
truly just incredibly naive and foolish IMHO..
victimized? absolutely.

but he WAS the perfect target.
here was a guy who ratoinalized a million just absolutely bizaare things ,
including his new bride sleeping over at her male friends house on thier wedding night.
 and eventually brought her to NYC to live happily ever after thinking they had a relastionship.
he had bought so far into her "stories " that she could say the moon was cheese and he would have asked what wine she wanted with it..

did i have empathy. yes,,
i think he was ill.
its terrible to take such advantage of anyone, much less a wounded person.

whats weird is most of us thru these boards, did believe the "citizen men" in these stories.
but i do agree that many men did not feel much empathy for those cases..
when its so bizzare , it is difficult to.

that doesnt mean that they dint believe them , or presume innocence (in legal form)
mostly they DID presume innocence? (legally)

but also presumed foolishness and naivety
and perhaps some really flawed thinking .

that doesnt mean those things describe most immigrant fraud cases!!!

it just means that many of these tales ,the ones  posted on marriage minded boards,
seem often pretty far out there..on both sides of the equation.
so its hard for anyone to make presumptions ,or heads or tales ,of the story!
as many seldom make any real sense ,in facts , timeline,and circumstances.

the ones that do , like yours, are almost always completely excepted and given the complete presumtion of innocence (legally)
and to be honest thats wierd, as its one half the story.

but yes ,, perhaps most also often come with  a heaping helping of ,,
** you are an adult and landed there yourself ,at least partially by your own hand,
 accept your role in it,,whatever percent that is, 1 to 100,
 and do the best you can to move on and foward from here********


in my mind..some random internet board *empathy*
 isn't going to really help someone in these rough and tumble  situations ?
they are in a world of hurt,,you are correct they are often shell shocked emotionally..
and not much is going to help unfortuantly

but heck,while i like the folks here,
 i dont listen to you guys advise anyway.
(i dont think i've ever asked any,, in 6 years or so?)
likely never will.if i make a mess of it, i know quite well who to blame.
i like things that way.

[Ronnie]

Ok, Ok, Let's be real for a minute....the "guy" claims to be 5'4" and weigh 120 pounds and he in his late thirties.  How real does that sound?  That's strike one. 

Next, given that there are a few males in the population who do match that description, how many marry amazons?  Strike two! 

The part about oral sex and getting beaten by her during it, every night...(still can't get an image of that).. Strike Three, Yyeeeer Ooouuuut!

Oh, and of course the guy was a "librarian".... now isn't that special?

Oh, Oh.... the guy says he also worked for the local government as a "Mandingo" interpreter which he could do because he "studied" it in college (while majoring in something other than languages/linquistics).  That makes perfect sense considering there are tens of thousands of native speakers in his neck of the woods who would be imminently better qualified.  Strike four?

And, he would/should know that the language is officially "Mandinka" not "Mandingo" which is the name of a black porn star (so I'm imformed).

So let's stop treating this mythical victim and his situation like they're real. When I see the court transcript I might eat crow but right now... it's a crock. 
 :zappedhim:

[KenC]

Gee Ken I have admitted to my naivety. In fact over at RWG I painted such a portrait of myself and my limited worldly knowledge that Bucky blushed for me. Actually he sent me a PM advising me to edit it but I didn't. Heck I was practically Amish and just as naive. What I was and what all that happened to me as a result of my being too trusting and knowing this doesn't mean I deny cause and effect. Go over there and be a open book to everyone and you're going to get burnt. I know this now. That is why I tell my story on these boards because I hope people will learn from it. But you see it as me making excuses for myself. I think the reason you think this way is because this is not something you would ever do. You always present your best side as an example of success to others. I do just the opposite and for my own reasons.

Maxx

Maxx,
OK, I accept that you acknowledge that your dating naivety added to your plight and you are a big man to admit as much.  However, if you had read my T/R you would know that I fessed up to plenty naive acts of my own in my trips to Russia.  I was much more savvy in the dating area but still a total newb regarding Russia.

This discussion brings up a question in my mind.  Is there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?  I am very curious about your thoughts on this Maxx.
KenC

[BC]

Is there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process? 

Good topic..

[Maxx2]

Thanks AJ for straightening me out. I see things clearly now with you and the rest of you guys. I find myself getting irritated with some of these guys in trouble also. Some of these errors in judgment are so outlandish that naivety is no excuse. I mean if your 60+ and you marry a woman of -25 that you have never slept with... well? I see extreme examples like this.  


Maxx

[Maxx2]

This discussion brings up a question in my mind.  Is there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?  I am very curious about your thoughts on this Maxx.
KenC

I have ALLOT to say about that and some it comes from my own personal experience. I have to do some business now and I will give this thought today while I am about and get back to you on this.


Maxx

[KenC]

Maxx,
I will start a new thread on this subject in the starting out section.  Please post your thoughts there.  I do not want to sidetrack your thread and I also think it is a good subject to explore for the new guys.
KenC

[groovlstk]

I'm a bit late to this thread as my wife and I have been in St. Croix all week, tomorrow's our last full day here but I have a few minutes while my wife is resting

First, I think what a lot of guys are missing in the big picture is that our lack of empathy for guys like maxx's mild-mannered librarian ultimately hurts us all. If he was a woman (and given that his story is basically true), he'd be surrounded by sympathetic, supportive men and women, no one would blame (her) for what happened; in fact people would stand logic on its head making a case for why she trusted her mate when time and again he abused her. The sad fact is that we hold ourselves and other men to different standards.

My reaction to this fellow is a mixture of sympathy and revulsion, with the revulsion part ultimately winning. I can't change that feeling no matter what, so the best I can offer him is a "sorry, pal."

Maxx, often when you tell us stories about guys who got steamrollered by Russian women, there's always a "he is a nice guy" anthem. Take this quote below from an earlier post you made referencing a friend's concern for an impending trainwreck:

I am very worried about him, he is such a kind and considerate man, which really is his weakness. He needs to put himself first, instead of worrying about her and the potential immigration problems that lie ahead if he goes through the divorce or kicks her out.

I'll tell you this: The guy described above is not a nice guy. Happiness was not a nice guy. Guys who find our their wives are using them and empathize with her plight by allowing her to get her GC are not nice guys.

OK, perhaps they are nice guys in a different context, but in how they behave while understanding they are getting screwed has nothing to do with being "nice" or putting their needs behind the needs of their spouse simply because of their good nature. You don't allow someone to slowly slide a knife between your ribs while refusing to defend yourself on the grounds that you're a nice guy. These guys are psychologically sick, plain and simple. They have a black hole somewhere in their emotional psyche and are desperate to fill this hole; so desperate they are willing to go ahead with a sham marriage after discovering their cold wives are cheating on them, using them for green cards, or filing false DV charges. Does this mean we shouldn't have sympathy for them? No. But to tell such stories and characterize the guys as sort of "Everymen" is very misleading; they are not average guys, they are emotionally incapable of mature relationships. 

[Ronnie]

Right Groo!  I will even go a step further and point out that what angers me and probably others, is that everytime a guy gets scammed either by fat yuri or a GCG or get accused of DV, whether rightfully or wrongfully, we all get a black eye...be we WM or FSUW. 

And just like the drug trafficking, if there were no willful or negligent victims the problem wouldn't, no couldn't, exist. 

[Maxx2]

Great analysis Groovistks. There is another thing they do wrong in allowing these women to get away with it. Eventually these women leave them. Then they take their scamming ways and hurts others. Take this Russian women for example. I know someone who knows her plus I met her in the spring of 2007 when I was out East. She asked me if I knew how she could get more spousal support on her 2 year marriage. I thought "Do you know who you are talking to?" LOL



http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0308/503255.html

Svetlana is a MOB and is looking for a rich guy. 

Also what should be taken in account with these guys is that a situation like they experience really scrambles their brains. It did mine ( I hope I have recovered... ). I liken these times like the first 25 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. I think of that scene where Tom Hanks is sitting on the beach stunned. Blood in the water. Blood and water running down his face after he puts his helmut one. Someone shouts at him. He shakes his shock off and proceeds up the hill. I see almost no one going through times with perfect moves. I believe most here would do stupid things just like these "weak men" if they were in the same circumstances.

Maxx
         

[Jumper]

good points maxx.


I'd like to say-
 that if the stories we see most often-
were along the lines of your own..
you would indeed see far more empathy ,and less jaded attitudes here.


there is a recent thread ,in this section ,
 were a guy brought over a young RW on a k1 that ,
never gave him any attention whatsoever.
never held his hand, no kiss,nothing.

now granted,her using him is wrong, dead wrong.
so he does have my empathy.


but surely you see there is going to be a far different level of empathty, such..
for someone truly duped..

than for someone who completely ignores that they have absolutely  no "relationship" whatsever-
 and propose to the woman anyway?


yes ! she is the wrong doer in this scenerio.

but to draw a compasrison.

if you drive to the *hood* of chicago..in your bmwer.
leave it unlocked, with the keys in it, and running..

and go leisurley walk in the park for a bit.In nice clothers wearing an expensive watch  etc..

the police, and dang few others ,
will have much empathy for you when your car isnt there on your return?

they will simply say you are lucky you wernt also mugged.
call your insurance carrier and they wont have much empathy either.

all the while the car thief , is still a thief..
just as much as if he broke into your car in your driveway and stole it while you slept!!

which case would get more empathy though?

and which stories do guys, on this type of website, see most often?

There is a reason "us guys"  are jaded?
it isnt-
 because we are married to RW, and put them on a pesdestal maxx?
 we are familiar with the FSU culture, and probably have a clearer understanding of the dangers than most people. in fact our wives, if and when they post or chime in,
 are the first to show concern and warn about avoiding the sharks..
 
it isnt-
 because we all have some superiority complex,and it makes us collectively feel good to kick others when they are down!
(though i agree some of that happens unforunantly)


I think that mostly the people on the these types of websites are jaded-
simply  because they repeatedly see guys leaving  a nice car running ,unlocked, with the keys in it ,, , in  a rough neighborhood.

sometimes they are taken by hardened  car thieves!
and sometimes its just a kid out for a joyride..because the oppurtunity presented itself..
(still a car theft right? and so its wrong..)

but what did they expect?
and what empthay would anyone expect?


the folks here seldom see the *maxxs* of  immigration fraud situations
 (which are many)
 guys that were simply driving their car , left it locked , in a place that seemed
safe and normal enough. but got it stolen by a professional chop shop..agency , or car theft ring.

there would be more empthy in those cases ,and if they were the majority it would set a different tone.
 
just my thoughts..
 

[DKMM]

AJ, for Godsakes man, learn to compose paragraphs!!   

I agree with Ronnie on this one.  Its a BS story.  If not, well then the guy is an idiot and deserves what he gets.  If someone I married actually tried to ruin my life simply because it would enrich her and I was innocent... she'd be non-existant.