going back yet again

[Photo Guy]

Frankly most agencies seem to "market" their services in a way that alot of women would find degrading.  So tell me what type of women are they going to attract?....

This reminds me of my conversation with Larisa during our meeting in Kyiv. I mentioned her agency website photos. She had no idea what photos they used, out of the 100 photos they took. I described which two photos they posted. One of them clearly embarrassed her. So, I concluded that she went through their degrading photo shoot, just to get the free ad and eventually it got her the results she wanted: ME :dude:  (I suspect the process was not all that 'degrading', but maybe it was. I don't know. I'll ask her about it.)

[anono]

it's been awhile since i made a post in my TR. been doing a lot, travel some, now i'm back in kyiv.

things are great with "j", she is a wonderful lady. she loves her job and i do not want to interfere with that at this point in our relationship. i'm not a one week, one month or even several months "wonder". i am not proposing to the first girl i meet, or the first smokinghotkova i meet, or the first woman with the biggest heart that i meet.

i do not want to be like the married guys here, taking my girlfriend to lunch, my wife to dinner and going to the clubs to find a prostitute. i want a lady that will be all three; my girlfriend, my wife and my prostitute.

i am seriously considering moving here next year. i basically live here as it is so why not? it may not be a permanent move, i'd rather grow old in the usa.

dan might have to make a new category for those living here, for ex-pat's or something. it will no longer be a "trip report". my trips will be those going back to the usa for a short visit.

jim naseum is thinking of doing the same.

life in the usa is becoming increasingly problematic, given the current political situation. things are getting worse, not better. this is not a left attack on the right, it doesn't matter who is running the show. it is simply the beginning of the fall of the "roman empire".  bush is just helping it along a bit faster. the rich get richer, the poor get poorer no matter who is in charge now. it has become more than just choosing the better of two evils. the right has screwed things up so well that now anyone from the other parties has to pretend to be just as stupid as the right to get anywhere. the political situation in the usa will keep any good statesman from ever wanting to run for office.  who would when your sex life becomes the barometer of your ability to hold office? (thanks to the hypocrites).

anyway, if i get all my things in order over the winter, i think i am going to ship my motorcycle to odessa, maybe check out chiaka and see about skydiving. if i can find a good place to waterski, i'm all set.

then i can take my time with "j", live life here in ukraine and see what happens.

as "jim" says, "i think you're crazy if you don't"

[START2]

Anono, I'm more the conservative but I have the same view as you only I see it as the liberals scewing everything up. You know when you compare the Dems and the Repubs , there's not much of a difference between them. Politics is sending this country down a bad road. Don't know if we can recover. Aside from that, I hold Ukr. close to my heart. If I could retire today I know where I'd be living. Sure, ploitics aren't much better there, and a bribe goes a long way there, but it's the people. They're great. And the country wow!! It has mountains, agriculture, the sea, four seasons......on and on. I have visited many times, and lived there for 8 months last year. Wasn't ready to come back to the USA  but I did. I hope in a few years I'll be where I need to be financially and then it's hasta la vista baby. By that time, I hope Val has instructed me well in russian. As you know communication makes it even better. good luck.

[anono]

i do not know how true this is, but apparently bill gates, the world's richest man with 46 billion dollars, took his money out of dollars and now is into euros...

The trade deficit swelled to a record $609.3 billion last year and total U.S. government debt rose 8.7 percent to $7.62 trillion in the past 12 months.

[size=+1][/size]
[size=+1]"It is a bit scary, Gates said. "We're in uncharted territory when the world's reserve currency has so much outstanding debt.[/size]
now this is just one of the many, many things going on under the bush administration that is screwing things up..i don't know about you, and i do not know much about things like this but i do know that a budget surplus as we had under clinton is better than a budget deficit, especially record ones like dumya got us into. he started this by making a tax refund to those who do not need it and bankrupted our country. this plays right into the hands of bin laden, who understands if there is another terrorist attack in the USA with our budget and trade deficits in the mess that dumya got us into, it leaves us vulnerable and unstable. as far as i am concerned, if we are going to impeach a president over his private sex life, we ought to at least be a little bit concerned that bush is aiding and abetting the enemy.

you might think this is a good thing. i don't

[Admin]

ido not know how true this is, but apparently bill gates, the world's richest man with 46 billion dollars, took his money out of dollars and now is into euros...

The trade deficit swelled to a record $609.3 billion last year and total U.S. government debt rose 8.7 percent to $7.62 trillion in the past 12 months.

[size=+1][/size]
[size=+1]"It is a bit scary, Gates said. "We're in uncharted territory when the world's reserve currency has so much outstanding debt.[/size]
now this is just one of the many, many things going on under the bush administration that is screwing things up..i don't know about you, and i do not know much about things like this but i do know that a budget surplus as we had under clinton is better than a budget deficit, especially record ones like dumya got us into. he started this by making a tax refund to those who do not need it and bankrupted our country. this plays right into the hands of bin laden, who understands if there is another terrorist attack in the USA with our budget and trade deficits in the mess that dumya got us into, it leaves us vulnerable and unstable. as far as i am concerned, if we are going to impeach a president over his private sex life, we ought to at least be a little bit concerned that bush is aiding and abetting the enemy.

you might think this is a good thing. i don't

OK, I am going to jump in now and ask the topic stay on-point. This political drift is not going to be productive.

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

i'm not a one week, one month or even several months "wonder". i am not proposing to the first girl i meet, or the first smokinghotkova i meet, or the first woman with the biggest heart that i meet.

Anono,
I doubt anyone ever thought you were a one something wonder. I think there's some concern that you may be the opposite: A guy who has trouble discerning a good thing from a a mediocre or bad thing. Can't you tell by now if 'j' is the right one for you? Can you not see who she is? Are you afraid you will marry her and she will transform into the bitch from hell?
:hairraising:   Doug, playing devil's advocate

[anono]

well doug, i'll play devil's advocate too.

how can you tell anything about a woman you've filed a k-1 for and you have not even kissed?

don't start with me :cool:

 

[Bruno]

well doug, i'll play devil's advocate too.  

Please, Doug and anomo, peace and love... be the devil advocate is a loosing case... see below :D:D

Click the link : http://www.love-from-russia.be/forum/Devil-fock-her-gently.swf

How the Alfa Devil loose against the Beta Angels

[jb]

I think anono's fears are quite legitimate, no one in his right mind wants to marry just a pretty face with a zero personality.  Without spending some time with a woman there's no way to tell, this is especially true if the two people involved don't share a common language.  

PhotoGuy, you didn't file a I-129F petition, did you?

[Bruno]

PhotoGuy, you didn't file a I-129F petition, did you?

Yep, he make it... myself, i find that he have go to fast... a second meeting was needed... BUT this is, i think, the result of all the attack he have know here...

By several people, a front attack lead to a counter reaction... this is the main reason that i think that gentle but educative post have a more positive effect that hard attack... who lead to a reverse situation... some here need to learn weight how words before post something...

Yes, i know, some think that it is only a forum, it is internet, it is not serious... but when it is about the future life of two human people, same word can make a lot of damage... but now, it is too late for change something for Doug... since he have begin rewrite his trip report, the dice was already trow... result of word posted here... i only hope and wish that all will be good for him...

 

[Bruce]

:hairraising: This little blue emoticon is just too much of a hoot.

:hairraising: What?  He filed a K-1 without the love of his life even kissing her???   You've got to be kidding!!!    All is not lost.  If things are not right when he visits her again he can stop the K-1.  

Earth to Doug, Earth to Doug - caution is advised.  Please wake up - we are trying to help you avert a huge chance of a life disaster.  I know I was not looking over your shoulder when you visited her - but I have seen too many guys hurt over the years and know there are way too many girls looking for a fast way out. 

[anono]

By several people, a front attack lead to a counter reaction... this is the main reason that i think that gentle but educative post have a more positive effect that hard attack... who lead to a reverse situation... some here need to learn weight how words before post something...

i agree 100% with you bruno, but if i remember it correctly, it was not an "attack" at first. it only turned into an attack when it became obvious the advice he received was ignored. then came the clue bat and no matter how hard it swung, it was still a swish. we do not have to revisit this, i am sure.

i want to relate another incident about the women here and how some of them look at the AM.

one night i received an sms from a lady i met last year at one of jack's party's. jack had a few spare cameras and needed help with photos of the party. i am a photographer so i was the logical choice.

this lady asked me to take photos of her so the next day we went to the park and to my flat and i must have taken nearly 100 photos. i have since seen some of my photos (of her) on the internet.

anyway, she sms'ed me and told me she was at a club in kyiv. i was busy bowling with a friend and his girl. to make a long story short, i thought to myself, "she just wants me to come and pick up the tab" i went to the club. we talked, she lead me on, and sure enough, when it was time to leave, there was an outstanding bill she ran up (87 grivna, about $18). she said "you must pay". in retrospect, i should have laughed and walked out.

as it was, i paid it. we went by taxi to my flat. the agreement we made in the club was she was coming to my flat. sure enough, we get there and i am informed it is that time of the month.

i will not go into all the details, there's more, but i post this just to illustrate how shrewd these women are and what they will do and say to let you think you are taking them home, only to be stopped just short of your flat. (once you've picked up the tab).

this city is full of women who come to these socials, join these agencies and either already know or quickly learn (from the terps and agencies) just what they can get. they can turn a good lady into an agency cash cow or a professional dater once they see the likes of the average AM who comes here.

they will work you until  (and if, in many cases, see above) the guy figures it out and then they are off looking for fresh walking wallets without a clue.

there are socials and new men coming to the agencies every day. they just see it as a mill. the dumb men come and go, paying for meals, drinks, nights on the town and in this case, drinks consumed before i even arrived.

it was a small price to pay but now i've learned to reply to such women "you just want me to come and pay your tab, do you think i am stupid?" and make all deals up-front. then if you follow up on your end of the deal and she doesn't, you can look her in the eye, tell her you lived up to your side of the bargain and she didn't and tell her she is dishonest and walk away, leaving her to find the next clueless AM.

this is why i post my mistakes, so some of you will not be as clueless as i have been in the past. i am getting to be almost like the ukrainian men. i certainly know why these guys here treat the women the way they do. most of them deserve it.

all i can hope is you listen, learn and try not to rewrite things when the truth isn't what you want to hear.

the agencies are in on all of this...  fake letters. it is common. i think with very few exceptions, all agencies manufacture letters and replies.  they train the girls, they teach them and show them what they can get from the men.

the way things look now, i will return to the usa in a week. i will get my things in order back home and prepare to move here in the spring. i'll meet women the old fashioned way and stay away from the agencies and use them only as a last resort if necessary.

[Photo Guy]

Robert,
I can understand your fear of jumping into the murky waters. You've had some crappy relationships- which means you have chosen unwisely in the past. I'm guilty of that too, to a degree. I'm just saying there are two extremes:
1- Jumping into a marriage too fast, which is something folks may be concerned with in my case.
2- Avoiding a relationship because of past mistakes, coupled with the idea that the perfect woman is just around the corner. -sort of a fear of mediocrity.
With both extremes, if the shoe does not fit, do not wear it.
   Your bro,  Doug

[anono]

You've had some crappy relationships- which means you have chosen unwisely in the past.

huh? that's news to me. i have never had a crappy relationship. i have met a lot of crappy women over my lifetime but i never got involved with them.

all my relationships were good. they just evolved (read jack's thread about his divorce). i am still friends with dasha, i even met with her and yuliya. yuliya knows she is an exgirlfriend. svetlana still calls me from time to time and she is married. i maintain friendships with any past girlfriend who is able. just because i am aware of the 'crappy' nature of some women does not mean i havve had crappy relationships.

i often think back at the great women i had relations with.:cool:

 

[Photo Guy]

Okay, great. Then you can see what you want and how to get it. I was wrong about thinking that you had trouble finding the suitable mate over there in Ukraine. Do you enjoy the process more than the end result? Or is all the time spent looking, the result of caution?  ...just asking. Doug

[anono]

hi doug..there is a big difference from having crappy relations and finding a suitable mate. i just witnessed a friend of mine go through a month with a woman just to see that it is all a game with her, as it is with a lot of these women.

some of these women here are so clever they would make your head spin. they are shrewd and determined. they know how to deceive some men into thinking the earth is flat. they look at most men as stupid and in maby ways we are, when compared to what some of these women will do.

think about it..do you think you, or most men would be able (if the table was turned) give birth to a child not that of his woman and not only keep it a secret for a day but for a lifetime? by the research it seems as if it is almost a common thing for a woman to do.

these women will go through an entire night of acting and game playing just to get an $18 bar tab picked up or a $30 handbag. then they will tell you it is that time of the month once you get them anywhere near your flat. i am beginning to think all of the women in kyiv are menstruating without end.

do you really think you know your larisa, having had only a partial week of face time with her? do you really think the emails and phone conversations count as face time together? remember, i just watched a friend of mine go through two visits and around a month, maybe more, of face time with his lady only to find out it is mostly a game with her. this man knows what he is doing and has a lot of experience with a lot of the women here.

just got a call from him..gotta go

[anono]

back..  the point is, if you are looking for a lifetime mate, you better be as sure of yourself and who you are dealing with as possible. i have not seen many successful and happy marriages and i think this is due in most part to poor choices based on "default" relations with the first woman or women that will have anything to do with you. this is especially true in the usa where we do not have anything near the choices we do here in ukraine.

one of the most common things i see about men who are on their first trips here is they settle on the first woman they meet because they are better than anything we get back home. i see this all the time. i see it on the tours, where the men "fall in love" with one lady in one city just to do it all over again with a lady in the next city and this continues until the last city on the tour. my joke is the women in the last city where the tour stops is where you will find the most women getting into relationships and become fiance's.

my good friend who came here on jack's spring tour is a perfect example of this. he "fell in love" with the first woman in the first city, just to "fall in love" with the next woman in the next city. why? because they are all younger, prettier and more clever than any of the women back home. so who is he with? the last woman he met in the last city. so, his choice was not based on what he really wants, it is based on the who he met last.

when you can spend some time here, like i am able to, you realize you can find as close to exactly what you want if you simply take your time. this explains why, as good as she is, i am not head over heels in love with yuliya. it is moving that dirrection because i am spending valuable face time with her and seeing for myself just what a wonderful lady she really is. the men at this board and those seeking women over here dream of meeting a lady like this. just ask jim naseum. i know i am a lucky man. but, i am not yet ready to say she is the one because i want to spend time with her until she knows english well enough so we can have conversations on a higher level than we are able to now. once she sees what i am really like she might go running for the hills!

a lifetime of compatibility cannot be determined in a week with someone even if the communication is perfect. sure, we can go on gut feelings and get lucky but that isn't how i like to do things. i also want to see how we deal with problems and adversity in life and love. we date at home, they date here. it is not natural in either culture to meet someone and be engaged in a week. i know the cheerleading squad is cheering on one guy who wrote to his lady for a few months, went to russia to meet her and now is engaged to her in 6 or 7 days. it all sounds wonderful but these two people do not know each other no matter what they think. could it work? yes, but he has no real clue what her true motivations are and as i said before, these women are as clever as they come and can act on a level worthy of an oscar. this guy may think he knows her and if she is really an open and honest lady, she might be the real thing but i would not bet on it so soon and become engaged to a woman i have only had a week of face time with. it may work for some men but it doesn't for me. he is playing with fire next to a mountain of gas cans.

i guess these guys do not read the TR's of bruno and others who thought they had a good woman only to find out the truth later or the experiences of maxx and others who married the bitch from hell and almost lost everything, not to mention the emotional turmoil. many of these women have an agenda and not many men are clever enough to find this out before it is too late.

[Son of Clyde]

I don't know which are worse the social losers or the much married guys.

There are two sides to the coin facetrock and I would no more trust a guy who had been married 3 times than I would a guy with no social skills. Social skills can be learned and marriage failures unfortunately will not change. These guys are only submitting the FSU women to more of the same.

I think some guys can no longer stand the BS with the American women. And you cannot fault a man who finds a beautiful woman 20 years younger who is willing to start a relationship with him. Sure, he can find a woman his own age but maybe he does not want to date a grandmother.

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

I don't know which are worse the social losers or the much married guys.

I have got to agree with this statement, but there is a lot of "it depends on the circumstances" in regard to "much married".  How much is too much?

There are two sides to the coin facetrock and I would no more trust a guy who had been married 3 times than I would a guy with no social skills. Social skills can be learned and marriage failures unfortunately will not change. These guys are only submitting the FSU women to more of the same.

Do you really think that social skills can be learned when a guy has had a lifetime of not having them?  You make the assumption that the married guy was at fault in the breakup of the marriages. (But one would be suspect of him for having 3 divorces)

I think some guys can no longer stand the BS with the American women. And you cannot fault a man who finds a beautiful woman 20 years younger who is willing to start a relationship with him. Sure, he can find a woman his own age but maybe he does not want to date a grandmother.

Not everyone is looking for such a young woman.  Truthfully, I was happy dating women my age or a few years younger here in America.  There is a certain beautiful look to a young woman, but I was never put off by good looking older women.  It is much easier to maintain a relationship with a woman closer to your own age group than one much younger.  I always looked at the age difference with my wife as a negative, regardless of how beautiful she is.  I was aware of the risk and did it any way. (So far so good)

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

KenC,

I am a very shy person but I found ways (like swing dancing) that would put me in contact with lots of women. I lacked the skill of going up to strangers and talking to them (especially hot looking women) so I found a way to learn this skill in a safe environment. It wan not a dating environment but a dance club. It was either approach them or sit in a corner all night. It also put me in contact with other guys who were outside my small group of friends. Unfortunately, the dance scene changed to the extent that many of the women are now 30 years younger than me. The friends I did make went on to get married and left the scene. 

[KenC]

Clyde,

I give you a lot of credit for identifying your own shortcomings and coming up with a plan to overcome them.  Not to slam you in anyway, but I don't understand how your wife could not go dancing with you.  Most RW are very territorial and to let you go off alone into an enviornment filled with young women, doesn't add up to me.  What's your take on this?

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

She hates to have to learn steps and would rather do her own thing in a Disco standing 6 feet away from a dance partner. If she liked to tango I would be worried.

Maybe she should be jealous but she knows the people at these dances go just to dance. It is very far from being a singles club/meat market.

 

[KenC]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

She hates to have to learn steps and would rather do her own thing in a Disco standing 6 feet away from a dance partner. If she liked to tango I would be worried.

Maybe she should be jealous but she knows the people at these dances go just to dance. It is very far from being a singles club/meat market.

 

And yet it was your chosen method to meet women (from the previous post).  I don't know, Clyde, you worry about things (like her on the phone too much) that wouldn't bother me a bit and you blow off things like this that would cause me some concern.  Sending their man out to a social gathering that includes mixing with many other women doesn't sound "typical" to any of the RW I have known.  Or typical behavior of any woman that loves her man.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

It's weird some guys don't mind at all if their wives are on the phone a lot.

I was not clear by saying she receives as many calls as she makes. She has started realizing how high the phone bills were and are asking her friends to call her rather than she is always calling them.

I have three providers, ACN (land line), T-Mobile (cell) and MCC (international long distance).

[catzenmouse]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

It's weird some guys don't mind at all if their wives are on the phone a lot.

I was not clear by saying she receives as many calls as she makes. She has started realizing how high the phone bills were and are asking her friends to call her rather than she is always calling them.

I have three providers, ACN (land line), T-Mobile (cell) and MCC (international long distance).

SoC,

 If you have cable internet (or can get it) the Vonage or Lingo broadband phone is a helluva deal. $26 a month for unlimited in North America and 11 cents a minute or less to Russia. Yes the cable internet does cost some but you don't have to have a normal phone provider at all so that made it well worth while for us.

Ken