So You Want a Younger Woman? True Confessions ...

[steviej]

True Confessions about Wanting a Much Younger Woman

Hello RWD ladies and gentleman. This is not meant to be a thread to discuss in any abstract way the “issue” of “age difference.” This is just a personal confession about my own feelings and experiences with it and how I ended up where I am. The “issue” itself is probably nothing more than young women are beautiful. How much can you say about that?  I’m trying not to be judgmental with myself, and I’d invite any other guys and ladies to share their own confessions and stories here in that regard. Maybe some of you new guys can find something useful in it to your own quest, who knows? No one, not any of my friends or family members, have ever heard this story.

I was married a long time to my first wife (AW). The marriage was dead many years before the divorce. I stayed married “for the kids”, which worked out well (great kids!). But when I got divorced, I woke up and discovered, “Here I am, a middle-aged man and single!” And when I started looking around at women again, I realized something fairly quickly … I wanted a young woman! I had aged, but the women I desired had not! (Here is the “issue” is it not?) I did not want a woman “my age” like I felt I was supposed to want. And the more I saw them with fresh eyes, oh man, how much I desired them, how beautiful and alluring they were. I wanted them so bad my teeth hurt. I have an expression: when I was 15, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 25, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 35, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 45, 25 yr old women were beautiful, etc … While time passes in a man’s life, that moment of maximum desirability of a woman does not move. This is probably why women get so obsessed with age and trying to look young as long as possible. They know this. They’ve been there. Each of them has had their moment when all the men in the world, from 10-100, desired them. And they loved it. And they want it to last forever. And we men would want it to last forever too. It’s a normal feeling in a man. And throughout all history (I am quite a history buff, actually), whenever a man has been able to reach a certain position of authority, wealth or achievement, he has taken a young wife when he can and circumstances permit.

Can an AM find and marry a young AW? Yes, but I think there are more forces working against it now than in the past. I did have an AW girlfriend for a while who was 17 yrs younger than me, and yes, it was great. I think it gave me confidence that this could work and this was all OK. There were some forces against it, though. Her own mother was “opposed” to our relationship. Why? She thought I was too old for her daughter, even though her daughter had lived separately and had supported herself for several years. (Her mother was divorced, by the way, so maybe there’s some projected anger at Mr. X, who may himself have married a younger woman??) Her friends in the beginning wanted to know why she was going out with an “older guy”. (I will say, after they met me, they were satisfied, intrigued, and I think even flirting with me. They even wanted to meet any of my “available” friends.) Our relationship ended after a year, but the ending had nothing to do with any “age concerns” that might have been there in the beginning. She herself, by the way, had never said anything about it one way or the other. She was attracted to me and liked me, and vice versa.

You might ask, did wanting a younger woman have anything to do with my interest in women in the FSU? Oh yes, absolutely. I had read and heard that over there, the combination of differences in culture and economics made it more common and more likely to be able to establish relationships with younger women than in the USA. This one fact was the strongest motivator for me in the beginning in deciding to explore the whole world of meeting women in the FSU (which I knew absolutely nothing about, of course). Secondarily, I had also heard and read about how Western men found them to be very feminine, cultured, intelligent, appealing and more traditional in some ways. This was also a positive. However, in the beginning, while I was intrigued by this too, it was a minor, not a major motivator. (This changed over time, by the way.) I was not feeling a strong need for a “traditional” woman per se. I wasn’t just looking for “dates and flings” either. I definitely wanted to get married again, presuming I could find the right woman. Being a bachelor felt unnatural to me. This was true even in my explorations with AWs. I had some experience using internet dating agencies when I started dating AWs again (and discovered the incredible convenience of that whole thing for trying to meet women), so I was “broken-in” on that score.

When I began researching FSU dating/marriage agencies and websites, reviewing the photos and reading the personal statements of the women, I just could not believe my eyes and ears. It was like some unbelievable exotic and intoxicating universe that had somehow been kept secret from Western men for many years. There was not one woman there in a grungy t-shirt and flip-flops asking “will you rock my boat?” My heart raced and my fantasies, desires, dreams and hopes compounded inside me: could this really be – could this really happen? The women were just fantastic, they way they looked, what they said about themselves, how they described the kind of men they were interested in, the kind of lives they desired to lead – intelligent, cultured, feminine, attractive … It seemed just too remote, to impossible, too unreal, and too good(?) to be true. I asked myself, “Would I really pursue this, would I ever really step on that airplane?”

Then I began discovering and reading more about scammers, both women and agencies, and horror stories about guys being used for green cards, quick divorces, and all that. That did put me off for a while. I thought “Ahah! That explains all this.” And, in truth, it does explain some of it.  I also started reading about the negative stereotypes that AW feminists push about Western men that pursue women in other countries: “losers” in their opinion. This bothered me also. I knew by looking at myself in the mirror and assessing my position in life that it wasn’t true. But then I wondered, “Is it possible somehow that I’m the only “normal” guy that is so intrigued by this and all the rest really are losers? But then again, doesn’t that just put me back in the loser bracket anyway?” (I do have quite a bit of Protestant guilt sometimes  ) But it was too late. I just could not put it down. I was hooked.

Feeling somewhat ashamed and doing everything in secret (more Protestant guilt), I took my first few steps to contact some FSU women through the international marriage agencies on the internet. Almost as a cover, but with some sincerity (Hey, don’t burn all your bridges!), I continued dating some local AWs. I never discussed this with anyone. It was a complete secret from all family and friends. I knew they would think I was crazy, and I wasn’t so sure myself. Are these the kind of delusions and obsessions that everyone talks about as “mid life crisis?” (I didn’t know anything about support groups and forums, such as RWD, which would have been very beneficial for me at that time.) I hadn’t started lusting after Lamborghinis, but maybe this was the same thing?

I started writing to some women to see what would happen. And yes, I wrote primarily to women who were in the range of 20 yrs younger than me. When they started to write back, their letters were so real, so pleasant, and in some cases so encouraging, that I froze. I went through some imaginary scammer traumas, and I ended up dropping the whole thing for a while. I feel bad about that now because I know now that these were (mostly) real, wonderful women putting in their time, energy, and in some cases their small amounts of money, sincerely hoping to meet a real gentleman for serious relations. I stopped all communications after my first foray into the field, and can rightfully be accused of being an AM who was “playing” to see what this is all about.

But I could not forget about it. After one month, I returned to my computer with a renewed passion and again opened up communications with some women from a couple of the agencies that had seemed to me more real from the first time. I also realized (although even then not the full extent) that all this was going to cost some serious money. I made a personal commitment to myself that I would spend the money required without complaint and that I would not develop relations with any woman without seriously intending to visit her. No more “playing”. This was real and these were indeed all real women (almost). This endeavor then became the central passion of my life (outside of mandatory work responsibilities and time with my kids) for the next 2 years. During all that time, I never discussed this with any friends or family members.

So, like in the movie “The Matrix,” I had taken the red pill and was now launched into the alternative universe. In this second foray, I was deadly serious and paid very careful attention to who I was writing to and what they were saying to me. I began for the first time calling the ladies by telephone. Oh man, what a wonderful and intoxicating experience that was!! I was actually hearing the delicious accents of those wonderful women with those wonderful voices half way ‘round the world from me, and even getting to know them and like them so much. I can honestly say I was seriously impressed with the quality and sincerity of these ladies. It seemed that the majority of what I had read about them was indeed true! There was no force in the world anymore that could have dissuaded me from continuing my pursuit at this point. I had FSUW fever, big time!

After 6 weeks, it was down to 4 ladies who I liked very much and who seemed to like me. After 8 weeks it was down to 2. I called and talked to each of these two women every day (I still feel a little guilty about this, about pursuing 2 at the same time, even though objectively I sort of knew I had to do something like that). At no time with any of these women was there any discussion about “age.” They never asked me anything about “why do you want a younger woman.” We were just getting to know each other. We had wonderful conversations and they were, IMHO, more interesting than the AWs I had dated - and they did all this in a second language! I was really impressed with the quality through and through of these women. (By the way, the folks at work were starting to wonder why I was always tied up with unknown “conference calls” at around 2pm or 3pm everyday  )

I continued daily correspondence & telephone calls with these two women for about another 8 weeks, repeating many times that I did indeed intend to come and visit them in person. (There are other threads on this website discussing different approaches to this. It worked well for me because I am a bit of a Cyrano de Bergerac, I think.)  The moment of truth had arrived. I had to put up or shut up. I had to make concrete plans to go to Russia. Now. This became quite hilarious because I realized I had no idea what to do. It was complicated to make arrangements to get away from work for a couple weeks (things were real busy at that time). However, I did mange to get through it, got specific dates, and informed each of the ladies separately that I was coming to visit them. I never said anything to one about the other. I scheduled the first week with one lady, and the second week with the other. (I still can get a little twinge of guilt about that, even now.)

I will never forget the day as I long as I live when I first headed off to the airport with my bag to go to Russia for the first time. I was shaking. I was scared. I questioned my own sanity. I felt like “who knows what could happen to me in the FSU?” I lied to my family and friends. I did not say I was going to Russia. I did not say I was going to meet two ladies (especially young ladies) that I was pursuing romantic relations with. I made up some story about where I was going, but I don’t even remember anymore what that story was. I’m sure it was ridiculous. And I realized how stupid it was to go somewhere so far away, so exotic, without telling anyone. If something happened to me there, no one would know. It would be as though I just vanished and there would be no one to rescue me. Was I a stupid puppy or what?  I remember being at JFK waiting for my connecting flight to Moscow, keeping my eyes down, hoping no one noticed me. I remember seeing other men and women there waiting to go to Moscow and thinking, “They are probably looking at me, wondering, who that pervert is going half way around the world to chase young women!” I averted my eyes and hoped the minutes would pass quickly. I noticed a couple other AMs and avoided any opening that might lead to conversation. I didn’t want to be exposed.

By the time we landed at Sheremetyevo, I was sweating with anticipation. I had spent 45 minutes in the little restroom on the airplane trying to shave, wash, and be as presentable as possible upon my arrival. My shoes were shined, slacks pressed and I changed my shirt. Going through passport control on arrival made me feel like I was deep in KGB territory. No one comes up to you and says, “Hi, welcome to Russia!” After finally getting through passport control and customs, I made it to the “other side.” I was astonished with myself. “Wow, I am really here!” was all I could think. Still shaking. I was looking and looking for Tatiana, who was supposed to meet me. Where was she? I realized I had no way of contacting her, or her me, if there had been some problem. Again, quite a dumb puppy here. Finally after 45 minutes, I see her running over to me apologizing for being late. I now know it’s pretty impossible to guarantee you will get anywhere on time going around Moscow. We had a nervous embrace and a little kiss on the cheek. [I should mention, I had made a decision that I was not going to attempt any sexual activity with either of these ladies. I took the idea of pursuing future marital relations very seriously and I didn’t want anyone to think that I was here “chasing skirts.” I could do that for a lot less time and money right back in good ‘ol USA if I wanted.]

And what was my first impression? Oh my G*d! Tatiana was more beautiful, graceful, and wonderful in real than I imagined from her photos, letters, phones calls and emails. I felt instantly in love (watch out for this, guys!), but still very very nervous and shy. We spent a wonderful week together, staying together in the Savoy Hotel in adjacent rooms. (Chastity is expensive!) Toward the end of the week, there were moments when making a physical approach seemed natural and appropriate and seemed as though it was perhaps desired or would be well received by her. Still, I stuck to my plan of “no sex.” I felt that I was falling in love with Tatiana and that I would be happy to cancel my upcoming meeting with Ulyana and spend the second week with Tatiana. However, by that time I knew Ulyana was already on a train on her way to Moscow. I knew she had gone to great lengths to make arrangements to come to see me and would be very disappointed if at such a time I would cancel. I felt no gentleman could that to a fine lady. It was a question of honor. At the end of the week I said goodbye to Tatiana and expected that she and I would continue with our serious relations with great success.

I was clever enough (or so I thought, but perhaps it was obvious) to arrange things so that I was back at the airport in time for Ulyana to meet me there. I felt unpleasantly devious about it, and when we met, I pretended I had arrived in Moscow that day, rather clumsily probably. And what were my first impressions of Ulyana? Oh My Double G*D !! She was so beautiful - much more beautiful than I had been led to expect from her photos. I was truly speechless. It literally took a few minutes to get my breath back. She was (and is) the most beautiful woman in the world I have ever met. I even think she was intentionally concealing her astonishing beauty somewhat with her agency photos, perhaps to narrow down the field a  little to the more sincere men. I mean, I thought her photos were pretty, but in real, she was staggeringly beautiful. I had the distinct impression that she also was pleased with my physical persona and glad that nothing in my photos had been misleading. At least, I like to think so  I certainly had tried hard to look my best on my “arrival day.” I even thought that when other Russian men see me with her (being obviously a foreigner) they will kill me. Ulyana and I spent the week together in adjacent rooms at the Rossiya Hotel, which was not as upscale as the Savoy I found out, but we had the most upgraded level of rooms, so it seemed OK. I didn’t want her to think I was a cheapskate. The only awkward thing that week was pretending that some of the things we were seeing I hadn’t seen before when in fact I had seen them with Tatiana the week before. (I wonder now whether that whole charade was necessary, but at the time, I felt it was, and I didn’t want either lady to feel insulted or diminished in any way about my sincerity for her affections. Again, there are other threads that discuss these things in more depth.) I was glad some waiter in a restaurant didn’t say, “Hi Steve, welcome back!”

My first week with Ulyana was by far the best week of my entire life ever with a woman. I never realized I could enjoy the company of a woman as much as I enjoyed hers. She was astonishing, so intelligent, well educated, cultured, and beautiful, with a great sense of humor. And so feminine, something deeply feminine in a way that my recent AW dates would not be able to comprehend. We laughed, genuinely laughed, together at many things. She thought (and thinks) that I am very funny. (My experience is that FSU ladies have a great sense of humor.) She was feminine and tender in a deep and primal way, like it was part of her blood - natural, organic. There is not a single woman in America that is anything like her. Why? I don’t know. It’s so many things that I could write a book about it (and I’m sure many have). By the end of that week, I was in love (but again, watch out for this, guys!). I was no spring chicken. I understood infatuations, crushes and all that stuff. But this was something that was just ripping me open from deep inside. I think (and know now) that her feelings also had grown more than she had expected. By the end of that week, we both knew that something “had happened here.” Something great. And yes, I did stick to my commitment of “no sex.” I also realize that Ulyana was more or less going to enforce that anyway, and she really appreciated my position on that for our meeting.

So that’s the end of the beginning of the story. Could things have gone any better? No, not for me. Over the next 1 ½ years there were several more visits and meetings with Ulyana’s family and relatives. Ulyana and I got “officially” engaged, got her fiancé visa, got her to America, and got married. When we met, Ulyana was 23 and I was 46. We had our 5th anniversary last November. We are deliriously happy, and like many of the married men here on RWD, I feel I am the luckiest husband in the world. I never imagined marriage could be so different and so much better. This whole experience has transformed my life in immeasurable ways. (Strangely enough, I imagine some Russian men are wondering, “What’s with these American men that think being married to a Russian woman is so wonderful?”)

You might be thinking, “Oh, come on, Steve, you want us to believe that you made one trip to the FSU, visited with two ladies, and found and married the wife of your dreams on the first visit?” I understand your skepticism, but that is indeed what happened. But why did that happen for me? I think three reasons. The first is luck. All the things that could have gone wrong actually broke my way, without me even knowing it. The second, and probably the most important reason, is that I was really ready for this. I had a deep understanding of who I was, what I wanted and needed in a woman, and the kind of marriage and relationship I wanted. Through my many many hours of telephone conversations and letters with just two women (who spoke English fluently), I went deeply and sincerely into these things, not just abstractly, but with real feeling. This accomplished two things: first, women who were not into what I was looking for could figure that out fairly quickly. Second, for women who wanted a man like me, they could see that I was for real and they worked hard to show me who they really were. When I went to Moscow, I was way past the “getting to know someone” phase with these two ladies. I think we both would have said that we felt we new each other with a high level of intimacy.

But, even with zillions of photos, one must confront that moment of actual physical contact. Is there any chemistry? Part of my luck was that neither of the ladies I came to see “over represented” themselves in their photos. And neither did I. It turns out that all of us “under represented” ourselves a little, and then upon meeting, exceeded our already acceptable expectations. (Helpful hint guys: in my profile I said I was an inch shorter than I actually am. It was just a hunch. But when I met these two ladies, they were pleased that I was taller, rather than shorter, than what I had told them.)

Now that Ulyana and I have been happily married for more than 5 years, I can reflect back on where this journey started. Do you remember I said there were two reasons why I was interested in FSUW – the most important being better opportunities for meeting much younger ladies (true confessions here), and a minor point about special qualities of FSU lady culture and values. So, what has made my relations with Ulyana so wonderful and our marriage so successful? Is it motivator #1 or motivator #2? It is, in fact, #2. I have come to realize that, despite my panting passions for a much younger woman in the beginning, only #2 could bring the happiness in marriage that I now enjoy. It is all Ulyana’s other special qualities, and our wonderful man/woman harmony, that makes life so good now. And this is the third reason why things broke my way. It is simply luck that Ulyana was the complete woman she was at only 23 yrs old. Ulyana was more sure of what she wanted than many of the usual FSU ladies her age, who are themselves way ahead of their AW counterparts in this way. Ulyana was not a typical 23 yr old lady, even by FSU standards. I didn’t know that then, but I know that now.

This will sound a lot like “do as I say, not as I do” but if I were to do it again, my most important motivator would be #2, all the special qualities of the bonafide FSUW that creates harmony between the soul of a man and soul of a woman. I would still want a younger woman, but I wouldn’t be focused on a “much younger” woman. If I was still 46, I would probably start my age search in the range of 10yr – 15 yrs younger. Why? I know now that the FSU ladies of that age are just as beautiful. Further, they are much more likely to be ready for me than a lady 23 yrs younger than me. (Actually, come to think of it, this may go away by the time the lady is 30. I mean, if I was 55, I wouldn’t rule out a woman 30 yrs old, especially if she was divorced or had a baby. She knows what she needs and wants, and isn’t going to change her personality in 2 years.) That was my ultimate luck, that Ulyana was really ready for me. In all the most important ways, she is still the same woman now that she was when she was 23, and I’m still her “real man” in all the ways she hoped for and wanted. She hasn’t change a bit about that over these past 7 years. Her personality is extremely stable in that regard. (Don’t forget, though, I didn’t run off for a fiancé visa right after the first week!)

And what would I say to you guys in the “pursuit” stage? I’d say you have to be ready for this. This may sound strange, but the most important part is you, not her. Know yourself. If you met with a psychologist and he told you certain insights he had about your personality, would you debate him, disagree with him, and think he’s full of sh*t? Or would you understand him and see it too? What do you want from your woman? Can you explain that to her? Be a gentleman. And while maybe you can’t say that all FSU ladies deserve respect, respect them all. One of them is your future wife. Be a man of your word. Be a “real man” as they say in Russia (and if you don’t understand that, learn about it). And then, GO FOR IT! I guarantee you, the most wonderful woman in the world is waiting for you to find her in the FSU. She wants to find you as much as you want to find her. Are there risks, dangers, false starts and dead ends? Oh yes, many (read this forum!). But remember, the woman you will love waking up next to in the morning everyday for the rest of your life is there now.

[Ooooops]

But remember, the woman you will love waking up next to in the morning everyday for the rest of your life is there now.

And when one morning you wake up and see that she's not that young anymore, you gonna be so old that you won't care.   

[Faux Pas]

And when one morning you wake up and see that she's not that young anymore, you gonna be so old that you won't care.   

Thats not exactly true, she'll always be 23 years younger than him.  The bigger question is will he still be wanting a 23 year old when she's 43

I have always been firm in the belief that the heart wants, what the heart wants and it won't be content until it finds it. I dated the much younger AM and repeatedly found it wasn't my cup of tea. I found it more flattering than anything else and mostly without any substance. When I started this pursuit it never once entered my mind to seek the younger ladies. I do whole heartedly agree with Steve's #2 reason though and I found these qualities in so many closer to my own age.

[catzenmouse]

Its pretty much human nature to want and enjoy beauty. While there are plenty of beautiful woman who are 25 (or 28 or 30 or 38 etc.) I haven't met many AW in that 25 zone (or AM for that matter) that have a clue about life besides where the next party is, what they posted on their MySpace pages, or how cool their iPhones are.

I dated the much younger AM and repeatedly found it wasn't my cup of tea.

Are you sure you're on the right site? Shouldn't you be looking for RussianManDiscussion.com? 

[Ooooops]

The bigger question is will he still be wanting a 23 year old when she's 43

And what a 70 yo man can be to a 20 yo girl besides being her grandfather?   

[Shadow]

From a scientific point of view, as males do not lose their fertility, they will be attracted to those females they can produce offspring with, there for females who are in their prime. For females there is more choice, which is why they will accept older partners if he possesses other eligible qualities.

Now for the reality.... no matter if you look better than your Russian equally-aged counterparts, a 46 year old man will never look like a 27 year old one for a 23 year old female. That does not mean she can not fall in love with him, just that the odds are lower.

If you think 25 year old women are beautiful all your life, you would not be wise marrying one. After all your preference might not change, but her age will. But perhaps that is a mistake that happens all too often... by choosing someone under pressure to get married the choice becomes less than desired. And this can repeat.

There are many examples that show a large age gap is not necessarily a disaster. However almost all of them have in common that there was no desired target group, and they just happened to find each other.

[Gator]

Stevie wrote,

Do you remember I said there were two reasons why I was interested in FSUW – the most important being better opportunities for meeting much younger ladies (true confessions here), and a minor point about special qualities of FSU lady culture and values. So, what has made my relations with Ulyana so wonderful and our marriage so successful? Is it motivator #1 or motivator #2? It is, in fact, #2.

Motivator # 1 prompts us to take a trip to check things out.  Motivator # 2 makes us stay, never to return to AW.

Thanks for the heart-felt story.

[KenC]

Stevie,
Wow, one heck of a post, dude!

I am surprised at how many thing you and I have in common and yet so many things that are different.  I am a few years ahead of you as Lena and I close in on our 10th year.

I was about the same age as you were when I started my relationship with Lena, but I was very happy to be single.  I was never as attracted to young women as you seem to have been, but I did date many younger AW (up to 18 years younger).  I never excluded AW due to their age though and also dated many AW my age and even one a little older.  Personally I think a woman's beauty peaks at almost 40 as there is just something about a mature woman that I find very attractive.  Figures that I would have my heart stolen by a younger woman!  In my eyes, Lena has done nothing but get better looking over the 10 years.

I shared a lot of your same thoughts during our first meeting and early courtship.  If you get time, please feel free to read my "Trip Report 10 years later."  I too was in a long term first marriage (21 years).  I have often wondered if there was not a sense of having a "do over" to relive the years lost to unhappiness or lack of fullfillment in the first marriage?  My first marriage was not necessarily bad (until the end of course), but was just not fullfilling.  I simply did not have a partner that wanted to participate in life as I wished.  My only bitterness is the lost years spent with the wrong woman.  I am curious as to your thoughts on this.

Regardless, welcome to RWD and thanks for sharing your story.  I think you will be a wonderful addition to the community here!  You will know that you have "arrived" here when they hang the OMB moniker on you! (Old Married Bastard)
KenC

[myrddin]

What the...?  I open this thread expecting some of that old age gap re-hash I’ve apparently missed and I’m treated to a trip report! 

Seriously, steviej, thank you for sharing!  It’s always very encouraging to see someone who has succeeded.  I can see some similarities with myself, though my own experience specifically with the age issue is a little different.

I never thought much about age when dating AW until I started meeting women online, where age is always among the first sorting criteria.  My own self-concept seems to be frozen somewhere in my late twenties (no idea how old I look, that’s not what I’m talking about).  I have to check a calendar to remember that I am actually 35. 

I decided that women under 25 are unlikely to be mature enough, not that it’s impossible but she’d have to show me she was unusual.  I set the upper range at 30, because I want to have children, and pregnancy risks to the woman start going up fast in their 30s.  I may have developed some irrational hang-ups about this, though: one of the ladies I met last month had a birthday a week after I left.  Had I gone two weeks later, she would not have shown up in my search!

Sometimes I think that a very young woman can be in great shape by luck, but by 25-30, she’s put in some effort and she’s likely to continue to do so.  I’ve seen some spectacular looking FSUW well older than my range.  I see that phenomenon as encouragement for my own future 

I think you will be a wonderful addition to the community here!  You will know that you have "arrived" here when they hang the OMB moniker on you! (Old Married Bastard)

I agree!  Though I don't know who officially hangs that label 

[catzenmouse]

I agree!  Though I don't know who officially hangs that label 

New members are voted in at the OMB Club monthly meetings. 

[viking]

Myrddin

I do not know your age but suspect I am a bit (?) older. I had set 40 as my LOWER range. ( I am done with raising kids). I was very surprised at how many in this age and up, are really great looking with 30yo figures. Yes, there are a lot of babuskas there as well, so the sorting out process was more tedious, but well worth it IMHO.

[Lily]

steviej, thank you for a wonderful story!

Would you probably share some photos of your happy couple?   

[Kuna]

steviej,

Great post....  enjoyed your story very much.

Thank you!   

Kuna

[Mir]

I can't help noticing that all the married couples here where the man is 20 or more years older then the wife have no children.
As someone said in a post there is a certain type of woman who desires a much older man, perhaps one of the feature of these young ladies is that (unlike other women in their 20s) they don't have a strong desire to have children.

[ScottinCrimea]

stevie, enjoyed your post and your honesty.  I remember when I was first divorced after an 18 year marriage and getting back into the dating scene.  At that time I was in my early forties and initially was scared to death but soon learned how much fun it can be.  I went through the phase of dating much younger women but over time, as I became more serious in seeking a life partner, observed that there seemed to be a distinct age at which women went through some kind of psychological change, and this was around 32-33 years old.  Hard to put into words, but it seemed to me that up until maybe age 25 they were looking for someone to have a good time with.  Between then and 32-33, the woman was looking for someone to build her a "nest".  After this age, they were more focused on finding a companion rather than a situation.  Now I know there are exceptions to this, but this was my general observation.

While I certainly enjoyed the young bodies, I was looking for a companion, not a bed partner so I set my minimum age limit at 33 years old.  I just didn't want to wade through all of the younger ones looking for the exception.

My wife wrote to me initially through a free website, and initially I was going to rule her out because she was only 29 at the time, but, because of what she wrote and, yes, because of her looks, I decided I had nothing to lose by writing her.  After all, she was half way across the world, so easy to cut it off at any time.  The only other RW I was writing to initially was 35 years old and I was still dating AW within my age requirement with the most interesting being a couple of years older than I was.  It seemed that women above 40 years had some special qualities that easily overcame any physical decline.

What I learned was that my wife, I believe through a combination of culture and individual life experiences had achieved the qualities of those within my age limit a few years earlier than normal.  Of course at the time I didn't mind that fact that she still had the great young body, but what I didn't realize then is that, as KenC mentioned, she would become even more beautiful over the next several years.  You just don't see that often with AW, expecially after they marry.

So what would I do differently if I was looking now?  I still wouldn't look seriously at a RW below age 25 but would be willing to consider those above that age, realizing that the closer to my target age, the more likely they would have the qualities and the perspective I was looking for.

I'm not dissing anyone here who found a wife in my "too young" age group.  As I said before, I know there are exceptions and some here have had the luck or patience to find one.  There are also some here who have different priorities, personalities, experiences, etc, for whom a younger woman makes more sense, but that's not the case for me.  In all my time visiting and living in Ukraine, I have yet to meet any woman under 25 years old with whom I felt compatible.  I got exactly the woman I needed and wanted and got lucky that she just happened to be 3-4 years younger than I was looking for.

[Kuna]

I can't help noticing that all the married couples here where the man is 20 or more years older then the wife have no children.
As someone said in a post there is a certain type of woman who desires a much older man, perhaps one of the feature of these young ladies is that (unlike other women in their 20s) they don't have a strong desire to have children.

mir,

Give them time... give em time.

Just like in the west I think there are women who tell themselves they don't want children but as the 30's approach and pass the bodyclock does (and it WILL in most cases) start ticking.

I think this is one of the pressure points for some of these marriages and a time of high risk, because it's very difficult to ignore human biology.

Admittedly some may maintain a childless marriage, but what a waste.  Just watching my wife change and grow and become more and more beautiful as her pregnancy progresses is a miracle in itself.  I feel sad to think some won't see this in their own wives.

Kuna

[mspanky]

  I think women who marry when they are very young hit a "mid life crisis" at about 35 or so. Earlier then men. They may begin to feel the grass is greener on the other side and they may have missed alot of experiences by marrying early. I also think they feel their looks will run out soon and may want to "explore" other options .Just my opinion as   I've seen this happen.

[Taz]

I never worried too much about the ladies age as long as she was pretty active and had a high energy level. I did think about age though if the woman wanted children. Other than that it wasn't a major factor for me.

Stevie I did enjoy reading what you wrote. It was definitely an interesting read.

[steviej]

Thank you everybody for your kind comments and insights. I have never told a soul this story before until becoming familiar with this forum. Even to this day my family only has a fuzzy idea of how I met Ulyana. I think I stumbled onto this forum about 3 weeks ago, and I was immediately impressed with the quality of the people involved (men and women), and the useful information they share.

I'm going to try to do responses to multiple quotes. Hope it works, but I'm just doing cut & paste. Maybe there's a more clever way to do it?

… she'll always be 23 years younger than him.  The bigger question is will he still be wanting a 23 year old when she's 43

Yes. Fortunately, the basis of our happy marriage are all the “reason #2” things and the relationship fundamentals. Ulyana is now 30, and to me she is more beautiful than ever. And when she is 40, even more so, and so on. She has become my true soulmate and partner in life.

Its pretty much human nature to want and enjoy beauty. While there are plenty of beautiful woman who are 25 (or 28 or 30 or 38 etc.) I haven't met many AW in that 25 zone (or AM for that matter) that have a clue about life besides where the next party is, what they posted on their MySpace pages, or how cool their iPhones are …

How true ! LOL. The FSUW seemed to me to be way beyond that as far as being in touch with the real world. Ulyana in particular was way beyond that. I can’t imagine having married a 23 yrs old AW.

… Personally I think a woman's beauty peaks at almost 40 …

I am coming around to your way of thinking on that. I definitely want to read your “Trip Report 10 years later”. How do I find that? Just search on that title?

I have often wondered if there was not a sense of having a "do over" to relive the years lost to unhappiness or lack of fullfillment in the first marriage?  My first marriage was not necessarily bad (until the end of course), but was just not fullfilling.  I simply did not have a partner that wanted to participate in life as I wished.  My only bitterness is the lost years spent with the wrong woman.  I am curious as to your thoughts on this…

At the beginning of this experience, I would have said, “No, I know where I’m at and I know what I’m doing.” Looking back, I think I was very much influenced by some subconscious, and conscious, regrets and a longing for lost time to come back. I think this manifested itself in really increasing my desire for a “much younger woman.” Also, during the last 10 years of my marriage (I was married almost the same as you, 20 years), I led a very sexually repressed life. The sense of disappointment and latent anger in the marriage destroys any way to maintain a sex life. Not only that, it didn’t bother me. I was glad not to have those unfulfilled desires hanging over me. I just worked my butt off and focused on my 2 sons. During the last two years of my first marriage, I don’t think we had sex even once. But I never cheated and I never had any affairs either. I made the decision that I was not going to get started in a lifestyle where I’m coming home and lying, especially to my sons. “Dad, can you take us bowling tonight?” “No, sorry boys, I’ve got to meet some business partners …” and then skip out to meet some woman somewhere? No, I was just not going to do that. If I had any free time, I decided I was going to spend it with my children, not chasing women. And so I waited. But then later, after finally getting a divorce, I think I had an explosion of pent-up sexual needs, emotionally and physically, that got strongly focused on young women.

... welcome to RWD and thanks for sharing your story.  I think you will be a wonderful addition to the community here!  You will know that you have "arrived" here when they hang the OMB moniker on you! (Old Married Bastard)
KenC

Thank you so much. The reason I was even able to let loose and tell my story is because there is such a solid bunch of guys (and ladies) here. I’ll tell you one thing funny. If Ulyana heard anyone call me an “Old Married Bastard” she would punch him in the nose! She doesn’t let anyone insult her husband (old style Soviet woman, right?) But I would of course explain that it is a term of respect in this context. I’d have to tell her quick before she gets that right hand going !! Ken, your wife (as are all the wives here) is obviously just one very special woman. You are a lucky man indeed, my friend.

steviej, thank you for a wonderful story!

Would you probably share some photos of your happy couple?   

I asked Ulyana: “Nyet!” Funny, right? Of course when she was working with the marriage agency, her photos were available to anyone in the world on the internet (well, provided they would pay all the agency fees). Now, as a long time married woman .. “Nyet!”

… there seemed to be a distinct age at which women went through some kind of psychological change, and this was around 32-33 years old.  … so I set my minimum age limit at 33 years old.  I just didn't want to wade through all of the younger ones looking for the exception.  …

If I was starting again, and still being 46, I would start at the age you’ve recommended for those reasons. I dodged a few bullets and ducked a few hand grenades with Ulyana without even realizing it. Statistically, it was a bad bet. A woman of 23 can change a lot between 23-28 in her life’s expectations and desires. I could quite easily have ended up in the “bad ending” story group. I am thankful, of course, and I love my wife dearly. But as advice to someone else, I have to realize that what I did wasn’t so smart, and that Ulyana has turned out to be way more solid than you can really expect a 23 yr old to be, even for an FSUW. She’d had two LTRs with men closer to her age (Russian men, I believe) before she met me, neither of which ended satisfactorily. She had a very traditional and solid view of what a “real man” should be (based on her father, by the way) and she decided that the “new Russian man” was just not up to it anymore. She is an unusual and marvelous woman in this way. She is an old school Russian girl from a conservative family, with her Master’s degree suma cum laude (red diploma) in philology and literature. Man, where in the West could you ever find a woman like that ??? I like to think that I romanced her and won her heart, but in truth, I think she spotted me, evalutated me, and decided “That’s him!” and then threw out the nets and reeled me in She has remained completely and steadfastly satisfied with who I am. As you can imagine, I do everything I can to live up to my reputation!

  I think women who marry when they are very young hit a "mid life crisis" at about 35 or so. Earlier then men. They may begin to feel the grass is greener on the other side and they may have missed alot of experiences by marrying early. I also think they feel their looks will run out soon and may want to "explore" other options .Just my opinion as   I've seen this happen.

This is a great point, and it could also relate to the biological clock question someone raised earlier, too. Ulyana never asked me directly about children, but I took the initiative and told her that if she ever wanted a child, I would agree without hesitation. I also said I’d want one, but not two. So far, the urge to get pregnant hasn't come upon her, but I’m sure it could. I thought long and hard about this. I asked myself, “Steve, do you really want to be, maybe 60+, and trying to teach another boy how to play baseball?” The answer was … Yes. I was, and am, completely cool with that (I have two sons already). Although my first marriage was not a good one, I loved being a father. Financially, having a child at 65 would really shake things up. But, again, I had to ask myself, would I rather have all my retirement plans go undisturbed, or would I rather be married to Ulyana, and take on whatever comes our way? You guys all know the answer to that one!

I hope Ulyana doesn’t get to be 35 and feel like she’s missed out on some important things in life because of marrying me. I always say “yes” to whatever she may want to see or do, whether I’ve done it once or a hundred times before. She’s not the kind of girl that likes discos, but one time, she decided she wanted me to take her and check out “the scene.” Did I complain? Nope, I said, “Great idea!” I took her, and no one shook his booty out there harder than me. So there I was in the middle of this packed dance floor, surround by half of Africa it seems, with music screaming, shaking my 50 yr old booty for all its worth! LOL. But Ulyana had a blast, and so did I. Of course, I’m not too sorry she hasn’t asked again, but I would never groan or hesitate. Thank G*d she mostly likes to go to museums, art galleries and lectures.

Oh yeah, one time she decided she wanted to get drunk. She had never gotten drunk in her entire life before. So I said OK. We went to a nice pub and she discovered she liked their hard cider. Well, she got smashed! LOL She’s very slender and it doesn’t take much anyway. I was a bit drunk myself. She was just ALL OVER ME in the bar. It was way cool, she was practically undressing me there. We even got thrown out by the manager for inappropriate behavior. She was awesome and all the guys there were frantic with jealousy about the gorgeous woman falling all over me. When we got home she was already about passed out. I put her to bed and checked on her every 10 minutes. And guess what? After about 30 minutes, she was cold to the touch and I couldn’t wake her up. OH MAN !!! I called 911, got an ambulance, and we ended up in the hospital treating her for alcohol poisoning. I did not let anyone move me more that 5 millimeters from her side, and I slept on the floor all night next to her hospital bed, where they were pumping her with fluids. Next morning, she was fine. She was quite satisfied that she had “really gotten drunk” and has never had the desire to do it again. She doesn’t even really remember the whole ambulance and hospital adventure. She felt completely safe with me and she knew I would take care of things and never let anything happen to her. However, I realize I let her drink more than I should have. I have no desire to do that again and I’m glad she doesn’t either !!

Oh yeah, again. She likes to take walks, and we take about a 45min walk almost every day. One evening, we were walking, and she starts running. She's looking back at me, smiling, and saying, "Catch me!" Damn, that woman is FAST! What a pair of legs she's got! I started sprinting, and as you know, the man has to catch his woman. Absolutely must. So I cut loose. And yes, I did run her down and I was going pretty fast. But what about the next morning? LOL, I spent 3 days concealing all my pulled muscles and tendons  and just prayed that she wasn't going to ask me to chase her again for a few weeks. Fortunately, she hasn't asked me to chase her again.

Stevie I did enjoy reading what you wrote. It was definitely an interesting read.

Thanks Taz. I have enjoyed all your posts and I love getting drawn into the whole experience with the live “play by play”.

So, again, thanks guys (and ladies) and I enjoy the forum here very much.

[Ooooops]

During the last two years of my first marriage, I don’t think we had sex even once.

That's sad...   

[KenC]

I definitely want to read your “Trip Report 10 years later”. How do I find that? Just search on that title?

Just click on Trip report section and it is right there.
KenC

[Gator]

Steviej wrote,

I hope Ulyana doesn’t get to be 35 and feel like she’s missed out on some important things in life because of marrying me.

That point bothered me for several years with my Moscow woman.  Before she met me, she had never traveled outside of Russia except to Zambia (on her own with a 5-mo old child; what a story).  As I introduced her to the world, her eyes grew BIG seeing what a large and wonderful world this is, full of opportunities lacking in Russia.  And we were just touching the tip of the iceberg.

I felt I would hold her back.  It was the largest reason that prevented us from marrying sooner as I did not want her to wake up one day feeling that I stole her happiness because of my age.  She convinced me otherwise, particularly with an incredibly bold step.

“Steve, do you really want to be, maybe 60+, and trying to teach another boy how to play baseball?” The answer was …

I am doing exactly that now.  It keeps me on my toes (and using a lot of ice).  But no contact football.  Her two are 11 and 12, and I have known them since they were 4 and 5.  I not only treat them like my own, I feel like they are my own.

Stevie, I think you should not just acknowledge that you would like to father her child, but actually encourage her repeatedly.  Of course, there are many factors involved in such a decision, yet if you wait another 5 years, it is problematic for many reasons.  But maybe she is like many women today and does not want a child ever.

[Faux Pas]

Its pretty much human nature to want and enjoy beauty. While there are plenty of beautiful woman who are 25 (or 28 or 30 or 38 etc.) I haven't met many AW in that 25 zone (or AM for that matter) that have a clue about life besides where the next party is, what they posted on their MySpace pages, or how cool their iPhones are.

Are you sure you're on the right site? Shouldn't you be looking for RussianManDiscussion.com? 

Wow! Did I ever miss the boat on that one. I'll blame it on the endless number of acronyms and my dyslexia.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I can't help noticing that all the married couples here where the man is 20 or more years older then the wife have no children.
As someone said in a post there is a certain type of woman who desires a much older man, perhaps one of the feature of these young ladies is that (unlike other women in their 20s) they don't have a strong desire to have children.

Mir, I have seen some comments or should I say some judgements made by you.  I asked in another thread in which I had no reply.  I will ask again. 

Are you married?



Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

(I still can get a little twinge of guilt about that, even now.)

and so you should!! 




Steve, I'm not singling you out... We guys have some sort of responsibility to be "gentlemen"..  and as I say, we can be spoiling it for others the follow.

I'm no "Angel", either..


I met a FSU lady, a long time before my wife ( 2 years) , we met while I was on business in SPb ( St Petersburg )..  I really liked her, and we met again, when she was on holidays with her near adult child, but she revealed she had a unfortunate health  "problem" and had the goodness to tell me about it and I backed off.

I felt guilty about this and contacted her again, but we never did meet again.. I backed off again.. I went silent... depressed even ,as I felt selfish. Had I rejected her for selfish reasons?

Her dream was to live in America, where her brother and parents had settled, and it wasn't mine..  she was a good woman.. but I rejected her .. and I went right off dating as I felt so guilty...

I read a lot of crap about "scammers" and "WMVM" and wonder how some guys can sleep at night... may be they don't get much sleep..?


The honesty of your story was refreshing and the outcome is obviously fantastic - for you both...

 .. but I wonder what Tanya made of the wonderful week and the silence that followed...


Did you tell her the truth after?!

Does your wife know the whole story ?! 

Ironically, I think your story is fantastic, as any marriage that is fresh and longterm successful, is a shining example to us all.

This board has shown me that there is no right formula, no guaranteed route to success... but I STILL can't get my head around how badly we behave in the FSU.. We'd never get away with multiple dates like this back home, and d'you know what? FSU women who are looking for the one guy.. and not "entertainment" are getting wise to this.. They chose us over FSU men for more than the size of our wallets, guys.. they believe we 'll offer them stability... do we think visting lots of women in a short time is the way to demonstrate this? !

Steve thought he might love Tanya, and a week later he thought the same about his wife to be .. How can we make rational decisions with such "distractions".. ?!