So You Want a Younger Woman? True Confessions ...

[LiveFromUkraine]

and so you should!! 




Steve, I'm not singling you out... We guys have some sort of responsibility to be "gentlemen"..  and as I say, we can be spoiling it for others the follow.

I'm no "Angel", either..


I met a FSU lady, a long time before my wife ( 2 years) , we met while I was on business in SPb ( St Petersburg )..  I really liked her, and we met again, when she was on holidays with her near adult child, but she revealed she had a unfortunate health  "problem" and had the goodness to tell me about it and I backed off.

I felt guilty about this and contacted her again, but we never did meet again.. I backed off again.. I went silent... depressed even ,as I felt selfish. Had I rejected her for selfish reasons?

Her dream was to live in America, where her brother and parents had settled, and it wasn't mine..  she was a good woman.. but I rejected her .. and I went right off dating as I felt so guilty...

I read a lot of crap about "scammers" and "WMVM" and wonder how some guys can sleep at night... may be they don't get much sleep..?


The honesty of your story was refreshing and the outcome is obviously fantastic - for you both...

 .. but I wonder what Tanya made of the wonderful week and the silence that followed...


Did you tell her the truth after?!

Does your wife know the whole story ?! 

Ironically, I think your story is fantastic, as any marriage that is fresh and longterm successful, is a shining example to us all.

This board has shown me that there is no right formula, no guaranteed route to success... but I STILL can't get my head around how badly we behave in the FSU.. We'd never get away with multiple dates like this back home, and d'you know what? FSU women who are looking for the one guy.. and not "entertainment" are getting wise to this.. They chose us over FSU men for more than the size of our wallets, guys.. they believe we 'll offer them stability... do we think visting lots of women in a short time is the way to demonstrate this? !

Steve thought he might love Tanya, and a week later he thought the same about his wife to be .. How can we make rational decisions with such "distractions".. ?!

Good lord man.  Get over the WMVM routine.  I don't care if you nor I like it.  It works for some so get over it.



Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

Good lord man.  Get over the WMVM routine.  I don't care if you nor I like it.  It works for some so get over it.

Thomas

This coming from a contributor, who keeps asking another poster if he is married- but doesn't tell us in his profile, lectures Doll about one line responses, mocks another contributor who seems to delight in his plans for WMVM, and now it's "my turn" ..

Thomas, can you be a little more specific about how you draw the conclusion that WMVM is "wrong" in my eyes, if you're honest about your intentions.. ?!

May be you can read, again, that I regularly say this board taught me that there is only the right way for *YOU*...

Now, if you think forgetting one's manners, is ok, then we can differ...

Whatever, it is I need to "get over", it certainly isn't not paying attention to posts before jumping in... I'm well aware that what I say might have some folk rolling around or thinking I'm some sort of "preacher"... but I guess they'd be the one's posting they were scammed, in a fit of pique if they had a dose of their own medicine..

Mark

[LiveFromUkraine]

This coming from a contributor, who keeps asking another poster if he is married- but doesn't tell us in his profile, lectures Doll about one line responses, mocks another contributor who seems to delight in his plans for WMVM, and now it's "my turn" ..

Thomas, can you be a little more specific about how you draw the conclusion that WMVM is "wrong" in my eyes, if your honest about your intentions.. ?!

May be you can read, again, that I regularly say this board taught me that there is only the right way for *YOU*...

Now, if you think forgetting ones manners, is ok, then we can differ...

Whatever, it is I need to "get over", it certainly isn't not paying attention to posts before jumping in... I'm well aware that what I say might have some folk rolling around or thinking I'm some sort of "preacher"... but I guess they'd be the one's posting they were scammed, in a fit of pique if they had a dose of their own medicine..

Mark

This "Contributor" has been on this forum longer than you and has already told his story.  I suggest looking it up.  You are only saying the same thing over and over again.  I suggest you add something new because you are getting boring very fast.  I am not worried about manners since some of your posts suggest you forgot yours. 


Thomas

[Blues Fairy]

Looking back, I think I was very much influenced by some subconscious, and conscious, regrets and a longing for lost time to come back. I think this manifested itself in really increasing my desire for a “much younger woman.”

That was exactly my guess.  When looking for a much younger woman, it's their younger self men are really looking for.

[roykirk]

I've shared various aspects of why I looked for a younger woman previously, but this post inspired me to put it all together.  I was married for many years to a wonderful woman, but it came apart in the end because she didn't want to have kids (the primary reason anyway).  Finally reaching the mid-life crisis of my early 40s, I decided that I did want to have a family and I wasn't going to put it off any longer. 

My girlfriend has asked me many times about why I looked for a Russian woman, and especially a younger one.  It's not an easy question to answer.  I knew if I wanted to start a family (and not adopt or inherit one), I'd need to find a younger woman.  I tried Match.com, but I quickly discovered that AW, and least in my area, weren't interested in men more than 3-5 years older than them.  A vast majority of them had strict requirements about the man being at least 6' too.  I'm 5' 9".  Where the hell does that come from, anyway?  Don't they realize the average male height is 5' 9"?  But I digress.

I knew (or had at least heard the rumor) that RW and FSU women in general didn't have such a problem with age differences.  And I knew from previous visits there that the most beautiful women in the world lived in the FSU.  Thus began my search.  It was pretty narrow from the beginning...26-30 (okay, occasionally as young as 23), college educated, good English ability or better, no kids, no smoking.  Even with these restrictions, there was no shortage of women to talk with.  I only ever met one girl in person, 27 y/o, and she's the only one I ever need to meet.      Almost 6 months and counting, and our 6th time together will be coming up soon.

[Lily]

 I have an expression: when I was 15, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 25, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 35, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 45, 25 yr old women were beautiful, etc … While time passes in a man’s life, that moment of maximum desirability of a woman does not move.

Blues Fairy, I don't think that this is about someone's younger self. The self stays the same the whole life, only the body ages. Sorry but I don't understand what a midlife crisis is...

This quotation is IMHO very true, steviej just speaks my heart out. It is in the woman, just for the sake of this discussion. No matter how old the man is, he would always look for the woman who would make his instincts sing. That age group is a secure provider of female beauty and attractiveness. In a patriarchal society like the FSU, this tendency is especially apparent.Steviej put it in a neat and concise wording.

[Ooooops]

I knew (or had at least heard the rumor) that RW and FSU women in general didn't have such a problem with age differences.

To tell you the truth marriages with very big age difference are quite rare in FSU as far as I know.   Well, except Asian republics where the whole marriage institution is totally different from the European part of USSR.

[Pike]

I must confess that I find women in the 35-50 age bracket actually are better looking than those in the 20-25 age bracket.   That is IF the older women have kept their youthful shapes. 

Yes, I realize the younger faces look more shiny and firm, but there is something very appealing about the faces of the older women who have taken care of themselves.

And when it comes to being an interesting conversationalist, very very few younger women can hold a candle to the older women.

And, don't even get me started on the musical tastes of most of the younger gals.  :-((

Also of interest is the fact that, on average, women hit their sexual peak in the 35-50 age bracket.

[Blues Fairy]

The self stays the same the whole life, only the body ages.

I disagree.   Any human being grows and changes as a person throughout his/her life; our preferences for age groups change, too, unless body is the only thing we're looking for.  If I continued to lust after 25-y.o. youths at my age, I would seriously question my maturity.  However, if at 50 I discover than I have "missed out" on a large chunk of valuable life experiences, I may well find myself drawn to the sort of people that I would associate with those life experiences.   

[Gator]

I must confess that I find women in the 35-50 age bracket actually are better looking than those in the 20-25 age bracket.   That is IF the older women have kept their youthful shapes. 

Yes, I realize the younger faces look more shiny and firm, but there is something very appealing about the faces of the older women who have taken care of themselves.

And when it comes to being an interesting conversationalist, very very few younger women can hold a candle to the older women.

And, don't even get me started on the musical tastes of most of the younger gals.  :-((

Also of interest is the fact that, on average, women hit their sexual peak in the 35-50 age bracket.

I agree with you 100%.  Many of these 35-50 RW stand proudly in defiance of the RM myth that they are no longer young at 40.  They are empty nesters or approaching that stage, having raised a child or two on their own as independent women.  Their goal seems to be a brand new life, and they are very selective about the men who will take them there.  Actually, most of these quality women have plenty of attention from RM.

[roykirk]

Also of interest is the fact that, on average, women hit their sexual peak in the 35-50 age bracket.

Oh dear God.  What have I gotten myself in to?   

[Gator]

When looking for a much younger woman, it's their younger self men are really looking for.

Maybe with some men, yet to me it was not in remembrance of my youth, but a fascination and a novelty after marriage for 25 years to someone my age.  In my youth, I now realize that I was mostly an idiot.  I do  not wish to revisit those misspent days.

Surprisingly, the dalliances with a young woman led to something.  I have always been different in my life and happened to find someone who is also different in some overlapping ways, yet opposite in others.  The key is to rejoice in the overlaps and to give space for the differences.  Each day is something new, and I like that.

Have I had too much wine tonight?

[roykirk]

To tell you the truth marriages with very big age difference are quite rare in FSU as far as I know.   Well, except Asian republics where the whole marriage institution is totally different from the European part of USSR.

Granted, and I think "very big" is open to definition too.  I was looking for someone within the range of 10 years younger, give or take.  Among my circles in this part of the country, it would have been virtually impossible to find an AW that much younger who would seriously consider dating me.  The last AW I dated was 8 years younger (the largest age gap in an AW I had dated), and it became a major issue for her. 

[Ooooops]

Granted, and I think "very big" is open to definition too.

If a person belongs to your parents generation - it's a "very big" age gap, IMO.   

[mspanky]

   I was watching "Larry King Live" tonight. Hulk Hogan was the guest.He was talking about his son and the car accident he caused. He also admitted his ex-wife Linda who'se probably in her late 40's is dating a 19 year old.


  I remember watching the show and noticing how interested she seemed in teen daughter's "brooke Hogans" boyfriends. I remember an episode where mother and daughter were in South Beach looking for appropriate dates for the daughter. The mother kept commenting how "hot" certain guys were. I thought this was all made up for TV, but it seems to be her true preference. I think some men sand women are very attracted to people of the opposite sex for serious relationships who are much younger. What causes that I don't know. It would be an interesting study.

[msmoby_ru]

This "Contributor" has been on this forum longer than you and has already told his story. 

sorry old chap.. if you've been on board for some time, perhaps you could simply tell us where your story is to be found.. because ( as I pointed out, already) your profile doesn't say much, yet you are impatient for other contributors to divulge info as to their marial status, etc.

I suggest looking it up. 

how helpful.. thank you for proving my point re manners - again.

You are only saying the same thing over and over again.  I suggest you add something new because you are getting boring very fast. 

Are you aware, as a long standing member, of the "ignore" facility ?

I am not worried about manners since some of your posts suggest you forgot yours.

Thomas

May be that's true, but what really got you so "upset"... did I touch a raw nerve ?

On re-reading, this exchange is already heading towards the overly personal..and I apologise for my part in this.. I *don't* apologise for raising the point about our behaviour to ladies..

[LiveFromUkraine]

On re-reading, this exchange is already heading towards the overly personal..and I apologise for my part in this.. I *don't* apologise for raising the point about our behaviour to ladies..

My behavior to ladies?  Hmmm..  It seems you are having your own conversation in your head again.  I don't see anything that I have written to inform you how I treat ladies.  I don't feel the need to find my story for you matey.  If you are too lazy than that is your problem.  I suppose if people don't do what they want then it is bad manners.  Having differing point of views is great and maybe you should think that some people actually have a point of view worth thinking about.  I understand your ego will not allow you to actually think you could be wrong but that isn't my problem. 


Raw nerve, nah, more like boring messages about the same retarded thing over and over again.  The only problem with the ignore buttin is I still have to read your boring posts when someone quotes you. 


BLAH BLAH, how can you treat women this way but paying thousands of dollars, taking time off and meeting a couple of women.  How dare these cold hearted men to think they can just date.  I hope they all burn in hell for doing something different than the great msmody_ru.  All hail moby...


Thank you for proving my point re BORING again.



Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

  I don't see anything that I have written to inform you how I treat ladies. 

Agreed - so suggest you need to go back to bed and get more sleep .. !

I don't feel the need to find my story for you matey.  If you are too lazy than that is your problem.  I suppose if people don't do what they want then it is bad manners.  Having differing point of views is great and maybe you should think that some people actually have a point of view worth thinking about.  I understand your ego will not allow you to actually think you could be wrong but that isn't my problem. 

You keep on proving my point re manners... WHY is it OK for *you* to ask someone re their marital status,( TWICE) or bemoan another poster's one line replies, and now *I* am "too lazy" to look up info on you?!! ...

Raw nerve, nah, more like boring messages about the same retarded thing over and over again.  The only problem with the ignore buttin is I still have to read your boring posts when someone quotes you. 

That would be - let me see..you !   Funny how you deem my posts "boring" ( was your opinion meant to be an insult ?!) yet feel the need to respond, but not in a reasoned, articulate fashion..

BLAH BLAH, how can you treat women this way but paying thousands of dollars, taking time off and meeting a couple of women.  How dare these cold hearted men to think they can just date.  I hope they all burn in hell for doing something different than the great msmody_ru.  All hail moby...

OK, I "get it", just because men spent money on the lady, we can forget good manners...

Thank you for proving my point re BORING again.
Thomas

Do you have that expression "over there" about "opinions being akin to a certain part of one's body that performs "solids disposal".. we've all got them..

Now I guess yours *might* be different to mine.. but there are those who seem to put their opposing views more eloquently...

[LiveFromUkraine]

Now I guess yours *might* be different to mine.. but there are those who seem to put their opposing views more eloquently...

Unfortunately you are not one of them. 


I find it pretty funny how you are taking "dating" and making it something more.  These people are dating, nothing else.  They may want to find their partners but you do need to start somewhere.  Let us all say it together.  "DATING"   Sorry but I don't see the problem of men going and dating several women at one time.  These are not married people.  You honestly don't think the women are only dating one man?  Wait don't answer that. 


Thanks again for the BORING post.  Does your wife fall asleep a lot when you talk to her? 



Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

MSMOBY SAID:

Now I guess yours [opinion] *might* be different to mine.. but there are those who seem to put their opposing views more eloquently...

 

Unfortunately you are not one of them. 

Sorry, Thomas - I do the witty ripostes... you just hit the same one back - now THAT *is* "boring " - can't you dream up one of you own ?!

I find it pretty funny how you are taking "dating" and making it something more.  These people are dating, nothing else.  They may want to find their partners but you do need to start somewhere.  Let us all say it together.  "DATING"  Sorry, but I don't see the problem of men going and dating several women at one time.  These are not married people.  You honestly don't think the women are only dating one man?  Wait don't answer that. 

Thomas, let's be direct here, what ARE men doing flying half way around the world..to meet women.. what is a DATE ... ? an example: "Dating is the activity of looking for a suitable partner for an intimate, sexual relationship. The word refers to two daters agreeing on a time and date when they can meet and engage in some activity, thereby assessing their suitability for one another. ..."

So your definition of dating seems to infer a lessor importance to this screening process than this explanation..

I don't HAVE a problem with guys who want to date in this way... *I* simply don't think it's an effective way to achieve the aim of the process.

What really irritated you was, I believe, my reference to manners... concerning a "date" lasting  a week , with inferred strong mutual feelings - then silence afterwards..

How "boring " of me to wonder - still - if that's really what stirred you up ?

 

Does your wife fall asleep a lot when you talk to her? 
Thomas

May be, and I thought it was my soothing words...  I worry more how she reacts when she wakes up

[LiveFromUkraine]

MSMOBY SAID:

Now I guess yours [opinion] *might* be different to mine.. but there are those who seem to put their opposing views more eloquently...

 
Sorry, Thomas - I do the witty ripostes... you just hit the same one back - now THAT *is* "boring " - can't you dream up one of you own ?!

Thomas, let's be direct here, what ARE men doing flying half way around the world..to meet women.. what is a DATE ... ? an example: "Dating is the activity of looking for a suitable partner for an intimate, sexual relationship. The word refers to two daters agreeing on a time and date when they can meet and engage in some activity, thereby assessing their suitability for one another. ..."

So your definition of dating seems to infer a lessor importance to this screening process than this explanation..

I don't HAVE a problem with guys who want to date in this way... *I* simply don't think it's an effective way to achieve the aim of the process.

What really irritated you was, I believe, my reference to manners... concerning a "date" lasting  a week , with inferred strong mutual feelings - then silence afterwards..

How "boring " of me to wonder - still - if that's really what stirred you up ?

 
May be, and I thought it was my soothing words...  I worry more how she reacts when she wakes up

Mate, I came here for one women and married her so no stirring me up with the WOVO approach.  Mine wasn't a typical story here anyway.  I met my wife by chance and became friends long before coming here.  We weren't interested in anything besides a friendship.  So it was pretty easy when feelings developed that I would only come to see her.  Luckily the chemistry was there.  A lot of time it isn't which is why I don't think writing and correspondence is enough to insure success.


Lucky girl with that smoothing voice of yours.   


Lets hash this out a little bit.  That is your definition of "Dating" while it may be different than others.  Normally, men in this endeavor are dating to find a wife.  That means someone suitable for a life long commitment.  I do think the door swings both ways.  Women here are dating more than one man.  Do these women have bad manners because they know they know better to keep their options open so they will find the best fit.  This isn't rocket science so I don't know why you insist that the men are the only ones doing this.  I am quite positive that most women would not tell the men they are dating more than one person.  These are still honest women but they are not married.  Just like the men.  Why shouldn't they date.  Just like the men.  There is no COMMITMENT at this time from either the woman or man. 


So any man dating locally would be considered "bad" if they were not interested in a woman they dated once?  I just don't get this line of thinking.  It isn't logical at all.


I really don't understand how you are connecting bad manners to dating. 


Personally speaking, if I were to do this type of thing, I would have followed what Kuna did.  I think it was a very logical way of doing it and would lead more people to success.  He detailed it in his trip report. 

Like it or not, you are dating at first.  I would love to hear what you call this if it isn't dating in your mind.



Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

Mate, I came here for one women and married her so no stirring me up with the WOVO approach.  Mine wasn't a typical story here anyway.  I met my wife by chance and became friends long before coming here.  We weren't interested in anything besides a friendship.  So it was pretty easy when feelings developed that I would only come to see her.  Luckily the chemistry was there.  A lot of time it isn't which is why I don't think writing and correspondence is enough to insure success.

Phew ..some common ground without the AGGRO.. but if you took the time to really read my "boring" posts you'd see that I think writing ( alone) is crazy - as there are far more interactive options open, pre -meeting in the flesh.

Lets hash this out a little bit.  That is your definition of "Dating" while it may be different than others. Normally, men in this endeavor are dating to find a wife.  That means someone suitable for a life long commitment. 

Actually it wasn't mine - I would make it stronger - I was really looking for a wife, too.

Women here are dating more than one man.  Do these women have bad manners because they know they know better to keep their options open so they will find the best fit.  This isn't rocket science so I don't know why you insist that the men are the only ones doing this.  I am quite positive that most women would not tell the men they are dating more than one person.  These are still honest women but they are not married.  Just like the men.  Why shouldn't they date.  Just like the men.  There is no COMMITMENT at this time from either the woman or man. 

I think someone on these forums referred to a meeting, for those on a "WOVO" being a time of "mutual exclusivity" pending evaluation. For my part that meant removing myself from sites, but that was my choice.. I know it impressed my future wife, as she knew I was serious - and I was "burning bridges" with other ladies.


OF COURSE, we know that there'll be other men our ladies will have talked to/ might be still talking to... but if you're the guy that got on a plane to see her - you're already WAY ahead..

So any man dating locally would be considered "bad" if they were not interested in a woman they dated once?  I just don't get this line of thinking.  It isn't logical at all.
I really don't understand how you are connecting bad manners to dating. 

Sorry, but my posts are obviously too "boring" to read, accurately .... I specifically state here that living with a women for a week, with mutual strong feelings being felt / expressed - then "disappearing" is bad manners - quite a different thing..

[LiveFromUkraine]

I think someone on these forums referred to a meeting, for those on a "WOVO" being a time of "mutual exclusivity" pending evaluation. For my part that meant removing myself from sites, but that was my choice.. I know it impressed my future wife, as she knew I was serious - and I was "burning bridges" with other ladies.

I don't see a problem with removing your name after spending some time with the woman.  I am just saying that it is more logical to meet several women to find that one where you want to be exclusive.  Let's face it, a lot of people don't have a lot of time to devote to this thing.  I personally don't think those guys should be involved in this type of trip unless they do.  But they decide to anyway.  They are not able to visit one women, then come home write for a month or two and finally figure out it isn't going to work.  Time to pick another woman, visit her and then on.  I can see why a lot of men fail at this.

OF COURSE, we know that there'll be other men our ladies will have talked to/ might be still talking to... but if you're the guy that got on a plane to see her - you're already WAY ahead..

You forgot about the local men.  They don't need to fly anywhere.

Sorry, but my posts are obviously too "boring" to read, accurately .... I specifically state here that living with a women for a week, with mutual strong feelings being felt / expressed - then "disappearing" is bad manners - quite a different thing..

Don't be sorry my friend.  You are trying.   

No one said anything about living with a women for a week.  We were talking about dating many women and your constant statements about how awful it is to the women and how bad manners it is see several on one trip.  There is no mutual strong feelings at this time.  You are meeting for the first time.  The women are meeting other men as well.  I am sure they don't have strong feelings for every man they meet. 

I think you need to step back a little bit.  You make it seem that these women are just waiting by the telephone for a foreigner and they will just about marry anyone who is serious.  I think the men should be more worried IMO.  Women here are tough and know what they want.  They are not sitting around waiting for a foreigner to propose marriage on their first meeting. 


I really don't think there is anything else to say to each other.  You don't come across as a man who actually listens well to other points of view.  You seem to know your way is the best so it must be for others.  If people don't agree with you then they have bad manners.  Everyone has bad manners according to you. 


Thomas

[msmoby_ru]

No one said anything about living with a women for a week. 

As VERY surprising comment  considering that's EXACTLY what SteveJ had told us,  I was referring to...and the posting of mine you chose to jump in on.. 

 You make it seem that these women are just waiting by the telephone for a foreigner and they will just about marry anyone who is serious. 

YEAH right, so if you really DID read my "boring" post about how I met my wife, this would ( AGAIN) demonstrate an inability to absorb what is before your eyes ..

  You don't come across as a man who actually listens well to other points of view.

   Is this how you duck ("gracefully") from a discussion, when you know everytime you type something you just dig a deeper hole...  ?!

You seem to know your way is the best so it must be for others. 

As I've said several times here on this board - I've made mistakes,  revised preconceptions .. I'm sure you missed that bit - how convenient

 If people don't agree with you then they have bad manners.  Everyone has bad manners according to you. 

A little OTT on the generalisations,  don't you think?

[Misha]

You forgot about the local men.  They don't need to fly anywhere.

You are meeting for the first time.  The women are meeting other men as well.  I am sure they don't have strong feelings for every man they meet. 

I think you need to step back a little bit.  You make it seem that these women are just waiting by the telephone for a foreigner and they will just about marry anyone who is serious.  I think the men should be more worried IMO.  Women here are tough and know what they want.  They are not sitting around waiting for a foreigner to propose marriage on their first meeting. 

Pretty much. Oddly (or surprisingly) enough, the woman I did marry is the woman that I communicated the least before meeting her. We had chatted online for 15 minutes or so (enough to get her phone number) and we sent a couple dozen SMS over two days as I was on the train. So, when we met, it was just a date with no expectations. She was not waiting for a foreigner as she had not been looking for one, but she was not cutting any bridges either. She waited a while to see how things would work out. If they hadn't, she would simply  have continued dating other men.