So You Want a Younger Woman? True Confessions ...

[ScottinCrimea]

I think we're all blown away the first time we meet these women.  It's those who can get their feet back on the ground and their head down out of the clouds that will be successful.  It sounds like you're one of them.

[steviej]

At least Im invited to meet her parents on the next trip, and that is said to be a good sign

Meet the parents? Oh yes, that is definitely good.

[Zmejka]

steviej, thank you very much for your answer!
As for the question of career i'm myself an humanitarian and now am experiencing the problems of getting a decent job in this area. Now even thinking about studying something new - but still not sure what it could be. The knowing of English is not enough here and that's another problem.

As for writing to other women - i know that my friend wrote to somebody else, but i knew that our level of correspondence was deeper. And i stopped correspondence with others, not that i did it specially, others just disappeared with time and i didn't regret about it. In the latest stage of our correspondence we did talk about "if everything works out between us then..." My friend even told me if we don't like each other he would stop his search for a while. So i felt a bit nervous about how it would turn out. My friend went to visit only me and we were lucky that everything worked great.

I wish you and your wife many years in happiness and love!

[steviej]

I wish you and your wife many years in happiness and love!

Thank you, Zmejka. I wish you the same. My wife is a traditional Russian girl in many ways. She has her masters degree with red diploma, but has no desire for a "career". She thinks its amusing that American women seem to think this is important. Like any real Russian woman, she would work if the family needed it, for necessity. But to choose it as something important in life, no, she thinks that's silly. She would much rather take care of her husband, her home, and do the many other things that interest her. She has many interests and hobbies. I can honestly say she is the most intelligent woman I have ever known. I notice your profile says you are living in the Netherlands. Do you have a time limit in which you must get married? In the US, when your FSU lady comes on a fiance visa, you have 90 days to get married, or else she must return. Are the rules different in the Netherlands?

[erusbrides]

Nice story. Thanks TS for perfect style and intelligence. Again - great story about intention, luck, and real love.

[Zmejka]

I notice your profile says you are living in the Netherlands. Do you have a time limit in which you must get married? In the US, when your FSU lady comes on a fiance visa, you have 90 days to get married, or else she must return. Are the rules different in the Netherlands?

Yes it is. We have a spouse visa called MVV - the intention of it is the same as fiancee visa - so to bring your spouse to the country but there's no limits in time when you should get married, so if a couple chooses not to do that at all - they don't have to. And spouse's status (married or not) doesn't influence getting all legal documents - resident permit, citizenship etc. - for the life in the country. The only difference considering getting citizenship - if a spause is unmarried and just lives together with a Dutch partner when a spouse would want to get Dutch citizenship one should reject his own citizenship before (now i'm talking about Russian citizenship, don't know how is it with others). But if a spause is married or in the registered partnership (it's living together with a contract signed at the notary) one doesn't have to reject his own citizenship. That's the difference. And if the relationship with a Dutch partner end before 3 years from arriving - a woman should return home because her residence permit was given only for being with that partner. I think there're exceptions in the case of abuse, like in the US. But there's no such reason to stay if you prove that you entered marriage "in good faith", so 3 years mark in Holland can't be lowered i believe.

That's why after meeting with my friend for 10 days we decided to go for this MVV visa - we knew we have plenty of time to live together and know each other more without being limited in time. Another reason why i easily agreed on that was that i recenly graduated from the university, didn't have a career built, no children - so i didn't lose much or everything when moved here and in the case of a failure could easilty went back. But i understand with other countries and people with different situation it doesn't work this way.

[diverboy70]

Hello Zmejka!

Do you know if this MVV visa is an EU-standard? I live in Finland and have not really got into this Visa thing yet, since it is too early for us. But all information for the furture could be valuable

Regards!

[steviej]

so 3 years mark in Holland can't be lowered i believe.

3 yrs is certainly reasonable. The 90 days in US is too short. 9 months - 1 yr would be better. The 90 days forces people to make the wrong decision sometimes, in both directions: either splitting up or staying together. On the other hand, the US is half way around the world from the FSU, and perhaps there is some advantage to the girls to know that a man must be quite certain of his feelings for matrimony to bring her on a fiance visa. He can't bring her here to have a "girlfriend" for a couple years and then dump her. You know, now that I think of it, there are some benefits for the woman to have the shorter time to consumate marriage.

[diverboy70]

I think the 3 year limit whithout a must to get married is good! In that way you get a real chance to get to know eacother and don't have to make a too hasty desicion! It is afterall a big step to get married!

You canīt really get to know each other enough on a couple of trips and then on a 3 month!

[msmoby_ru]

The only difference considering getting citizenship - if a spause is unmarried and just lives together with a Dutch partner when a spouse would want to get Dutch citizenship one should reject his own citizenship before (now i'm talking about Russian citizenship, don't know how is it with others). But if a spause is married or in the registered partnership (it's living together with a contract signed at the notary) one doesn't have to reject his own citizenship. That's the difference.

Interesting post Zmejka!

Are you saying that Dutch law requires that if a couple merely live together, the non Dutch residing partner must renounce their citizenship !? Surely all they have to do is to register their partnership and they can keep their nationality...

Russia allows dual natioanlity, as do Britain Ireland and Cyprus.

But if a spause is married or in the registered partnership (it's living together with a contract signed at the notary) one doesn't have to reject his own citizenship. That's the difference. And if the relationship with a Dutch partner end before 3 years from arriving - a woman should return home because her residence permit was given only for being with that partner.

 I think the Netherlands is a signiture to an EU Directive - as is Cyprus - if their marriage / registered partnership breaks down, then the non-EU national loses their rights - unless there are children involved, or, as you say, they have been victims of abuse...

If the EU citizen partner dies, within a year of registration or marriage they are also "safe".

[steviej]

I think the 3 year limit whithout a must to get married is good! In that way you get a real chance to get to know eacother and don't have to make a too hasty desicion! It is afterall a big step to get married!

Interestingly enough, in the US, the divorce rate for couples that have lived together before they got married is higher than the divorce rate for couples who did not. It's not huge (5% - 7%) but it is statistically significant. Sociologists and psychologists have been debating what this might mean. (And it may well be different in different countries). But in the US anyway, knowing each other "really really well" from living together does not produce better marriages. In my own mind, I think there's a couple factors. First, what a man expects and wants from a girlfriend is not the same thing that he wants from a wife. Many of these feelings are deeply imprinted, and almost subconscious, from the earliest moments of his life. The same is true for a woman also between boyfriend and husband. Secondly, I can imagine an emotional harmony between two people who are happy for "the time being" and apparently stable, but each or one of them knows subconsciously, that although living together, they are not committed. If they are happy with someone in an uncommitted state, they may not be happy with the same person in the same way in a committed state.

Just something to remember .. more time does not equal better marriage (at least in US)

[ScottinCrimea]

It may just be that many of these couples get married as a last ditch effort to save a failing relationship.

[Blues Fairy]

It may just be that many of these couples get married as a last ditch effort to save a failing relationship.

Actually it's a well-known fact that lengthy cohabitation decreases a pair's chances of ever getting married, and if they do, staying in a marriage.  Something about the lower level of commitment at the moment of entering the arrangement.  "Why buy the cow..."

[Zmejka]

Hello Zmejka!

Do you know if this MVV visa is an EU-standard? I live in Finland and have not really got into this Visa thing yet, since it is too early for us. But all information for the furture could be valuable

Regards!

Hello diverboy70!
No, MVV visa is only for the Netherlands. But i know that to other european countries there are special spause visas - different for different countries, so i think you'll know better from your local forums. I hope everything will progress great between you and your girl!

steviej, i agree that 90 days of K-1 visa is short. I know that in England fiancee visa lasts 6 months, if i'm not mistaken, and in Australia - 9 months (or something). Again what is good about MVV visa to the Netherlands - that there's absolutely no limit when you should get married. And if you don't want - you can live together with your spause and she'll get all the neccesary documents just because you live together.
What i meant about 3 years mark - it's for example if the marriage in the US ends on the 2 year mark, or 1,5 mark - and a woman didn't get her green card for 10 year, she still can stay in the US by proving (if no abuse) that she entered the marriage "in good faith" and she can get that permanent green card. In the Netherlands it's different - if your marrige (or living together) ends on the 2 year mark, or 1,5 - or any before 3 year mark - a woman doesn't have any other ways to stay - so she must leave (if no abuse was involved). That's the law and i think - in other European countries as well (similar terms at least).

2 people should already have plans to get married before applying for K-1, it's not tourist or visa for testing, sometimes (with difficulty of getting other non-immigrant visas) it's being misused. Difficult subject, requiers total trust in each other, that's how it should be of course (a couple normally should trust each other and know each other very good before getting married), all this international dating make the things sometimes different - and difficult.

Interesting post Zmejka!

Are you saying that Dutch law requires that if a couple merely live together, the non Dutch residing partner must renounce their citizenship !? Surely all they have to do is to register their partnership and they can keep their nationality...

Yes that's right. The law says that anybody who wants to get Dutch citizenship must renounce their own. But there are exeptions like:
if with getting Dutch citizenship you'll automatically lose your own.
you're married or in registered partnership with a Dutch person
you're a refugee etc.

And if a Dutch person would want to get citizenship of another country they must renounce their own as well.

msmoby_ru, and how is it with English people - must they do the same i wonder?

steviej, and do you know by the way if an American person wants another citizenship - what happens to his own?

I think the Netherlands is a signiture to an EU Directive - as is Cyprus - if their marriage / registered partnership breaks down, then the non-EU national loses their rights - unless there are children involved, or, as you say, they have been victims of abuse...

If the EU citizen partner dies, within a year of registration or marriage they are also "safe".

Yes i think this is the case. With the Netherlands if no abuse, no death - only at 3 year mark comes the period when non-Dutch person can ask for independant residence permit, if the marriage breaks down before it, the only way out is to leave.

[steviej]

steviej, and do you know by the way if an American person wants another citizenship - what happens to his own?

USA allows for dual citizenship, or more, even. [Foolishly, in my opinion]. That is, petitioning for citizenship in USA does not require you to renounce or lose any other citizenship you may hold. Nor, if you are a US citizen, do you forfeit your citizenship if you obtain citizenship in another country as well. This is beyond foolish in my opinion because it violates our basic principle of "one man one vote". We have many Mexicans with dual citizenship Mexico/US. And how do they vote? They vote in US elections for things beneficial to their Mexican relatives, and vice versa when they vote in Mexico. A US citizen with only US citizenship cannot do this. And what if there was a war between US and Mexico? What can US citizens expect of a fellow "citizen" that has dual citizenship with Mexico? I think this loophole is something left over from ages ago and should be revoked.

[Zmejka]

Actually it's a well-known fact that lengthy cohabitation decreases a pair's chances of ever getting married, and if they do, staying in a marriage.

I don't know if it's for the better or for the worse but in Europe there're many couples who live together, give birth to children - still unmarried. They can do it very late in the relationship - or not to do it at all. I wonder what factors have influence on the situation - in US and Europe (may be society is more religious in the US?)

[diverboy70]

Thanks for the information Zmejka.

I just have to find out the Finnish rules if we get to that point! By the way I have one of my very best friends in the Finnish coast guard, and I think he has quite a good grasp of the rules, i guess i will just ask him

About time before marriage. I really think you need some time to find out if you are compitable. and i still don't think the US K-1 really give you that time, if you don't really know your girl really good from earlier! I think you should not mix this with persons living together for many years without marrying, that is really something else. You need time to get to know each other, especially if you are dealing with a girl from a different country and culture. She can love you as a person but may have a really hard time to adapt to a whole neew culture and country! I certanly would propose to my girl  as soon as as i feel she is the one for me. You would definetly not need more than 3 years, at least I don't think so!

[KenC]

3 yrs is certainly reasonable. The 90 days in US is too short. 9 months - 1 yr would be better. The 90 days forces people to make the wrong decision sometimes, in both directions: either splitting up or staying together. On the other hand, the US is half way around the world from the FSU, and perhaps there is some advantage to the girls to know that a man must be quite certain of his feelings for matrimony to bring her on a fiance visa. He can't bring her here to have a "girlfriend" for a couple years and then dump her. You know, now that I think of it, there are some benefits for the woman to have the shorter time to consumate marriage.

Steve,
The 90 day time limit for America sounds short but if used as intended, is quite long enough really.  The fact that there is a limit at all is intimidating.  The couple hears the clock ticking from the start.   

The fact that many misuse the 90 days as additional "face time" to get to know each other better is what makes it short.  Not to say about the "One Week Wonders" that bring over an almost complete stranger on a K-1 visa!!!!!!   No, 90 days is a bit sort to get to know, court, fall in love, get engaged for "real" and eventually marry! 
KenC

[Gator]

Regarding the 90-day deadline - my fast-track RW and I married 15 days after she arrived.   :kissing: 

She wanted to get married on the drive home from the airport on the day of her arrival.

[steviej]

Steve,
The 90 day time limit for America sounds short but if used as intended, is quite long enough really.  The fact that there is a limit at all is intimidating.  The couple hears the clock ticking from the start.   

The fact that many misuse the 90 days as additional "face time" to get to know each other better is what makes it short.  Not to say about the "One Week Wonders" that bring over an almost complete stranger on a K-1 visa!!!!!!   No, 90 days is a bit sort to get to know, court, fall in love, get engaged for "real" and eventually marry! 
KenC

Ken, that's a great point. The process is not really to bring someone here and then "get to know them." It really is supposed to be two people who have decided to wed. The 90 days basically allows for any legal preparations, wedding preparations, and perhaps a little last minute "oh oh ... this is WAY wrong", but should be quite unexpected.

[steviej]

I just have to find out the Finnish rules if we get to that point! By the way I have one of my very best friends in the Finnish coast guard, and I think he has quite a good grasp of the rules, i guess i will just ask him

Diverboy, if it gets to that point, you might want a more definitive answer than a guy you know in the coast guard. You need to meet with an immigration lawyer, or with one of your governments immigration staff to make sure you, and your fiance, really have the right info and process. Just a thought ....

Just curious, would you really want 3 yrs to live with a girl before feeling you knew each other well enough to get married?

[diverboy70]

steviej

Yes, off course I will use the proper help if i will bring her here in the future:)

About the time frame to know when you feel that are ready to get married, I don't think I could define any specifik needed time! Somewhere between 90 days and three years i think But just because you have "the three years rule", you dont need to use all that time  It just gives you a little more time to make sure you are doing the right descision.

[Zmejka]

But just because you have "the three years rule", you dont need to use all that time  It just gives you a little more time to make sure you are doing the right descision.

diverboy70, connected to what are you mentioning "the three years rule"? I think may be i didn't write it clear enough - here there's absolutely no limit when you should get married after arrival - no 3 months (like in the US), no 6 months (like in the UK), no 9 months (like in Australia) - and no 3 years as well.

[diverboy70]

Zmejka

Sorry, i must have misundertood it. But the main thing that you have more time to live together in your own country. Some women might also have a hard time to adjust to a new country, and finally she may descide she can't move there permanently. Those things have happened before.

[msmoby_ru]

diverboy70, connected to what are you mentioning "the three years rule"? I think may be i didn't write it clear enough - here there's absolutely no limit when you should get married after arrival - no 3 months (like in the US), no 6 months (like in the UK), no 9 months (like in Australia) - and no 3 years as well.

The UK rule is being challenged - in an obtuse way ... The UK did not sign an EU Directive re rights of freedom of movement of EU citizens and their spouse / registered partners - who are not EU citizens-  but they now allow in other EU member states non EU partners ( married or REGISTERED partnerships ) and it is FREE .. !!   I asked why as a UK citizen I had to pay over $1000 each for my wife and step-son, but it would be free as an Irish citizen and they couldn't answer.. There is an official EU Commission complaint re this so something must change ..

I am married already, so I didn't need to challenge the ruling on the time constraints.