Epidemic of Cold Feet

[Blues Fairy]

1) "Russia/Belorussia is the greatest country on Earth"
2) "Money is not important"
3) "Money is important"
4) "Love is most important"
5) "Love is only part of marriage"
6) "Man must be smart"
7) "Man is so stupid"
Both smiled and told me how happy they were when I showed leadership and strength "as my man" only to later on tell me how they resented me "being so strong man"
9) "I don't listen to mama, I make my own decisions"

Maybe because they're taken out of context, but all the above items sound rather childish to me.  I have a feeling that you cut both your girls a lot of slack in the matter of intellectual adequacy, be it for their FSU origin or for the blindness of love, or for some other reason. 

I actually notice that about many US-FSU relationships.  Many men seem to think, "it's okay if the girl is a little immature, after all she is only a Russian".  And then the relationship crumbles and they are soooo surprised.

Just my humble point of view, no offence meant.

[ScottinCrimea]

Sure they love their countries but nobody could be that foolish to think its a better country to live in than America.  Nobody who has been to both countries thinks that unless maybe they have a lot of money.  Especially Belarus, are you kidding me?

DKMM, There are many people who think that it is a better country to live in for a variety of reasons, personal as well as otherwise.  Don't call all of them fools.

I don't want to get into another FSU vs US debate here, just want to point out that individuals have different priorities, different needs and desires and for some, those are best met in other countries.  Not everyone there is fighting to get to the US and not everyone in the US is choosing not to live somewhere else.

[av8or1]

I'm absolutely certain that you aren't the only one whose dealt with this. 

Hey!  How have you been?  Long time, no talk-eee.

Oh heck no, I'm not the only one to have this thrown in their lap.  My participation in the thread is simply to help out the newbies and to make some kind of attempt at figuring out some of the reasons why this phenomenon occurs such that perhaps I can avoid it next time.  Don't know that doing so is possible, but it seems worth the effort, so....

Sure they love their countries but nobody could be that foolish to think its a better country to live in than America.  Nobody who has been to both countries thinks that unless maybe they have a lot of money.  Especially Belarus, are you kidding me?

You'd be surprised how defensive a FSUW can be of her country and "the motherland."  It has surprised me.  For them, it's "perfect."  Both Diana and Olga liked the homongenous nature of their culture, Diana almost to the point of being racist.  And if you try to argue the opposite to them, it only serves to strengthen their resolve.  So fortunately I am wise enough to know to just let it go.

One aspect of this that I didn't point out in my previous post (thanks for the comment, BTW) is that your FSUW needs to be, AND I MEAN NEEDS TO BE, accepting of other cultures.  If there was/is a tall pole in the tent of my two cases of "the Cold Feet", I think I'd have to point the newbies to that one.  Both Diana and Olga, in looking back on it now, didn't seem to be very accepting of other cultures.  Heck even details about the wedding caused friction, ergo the tuxedo issue.  I still think that her saying this was simply deodorant for the stink of another guy, but I also believe that she meant it.  Diana was the same way.  Each time she'd ask me a question about America and I'd answer it, she'd come back with something about how much better Belarus/the FSU is and how she liked things better in their culture and how they HAD a culture, that we in the USA DON'T have one, etc.  In the end I think that this lack of acceptance of other cultures was a part of why they got "Cold Feet."

So that will be a more clear heuristic for me next time gang, one that I think I'll use with judicious application.  FYI...

The bottom line is, if you don't have the time and money to keep the fire burning, you will have a hard time making this work as you wait for the visa. Majority opinion on here states that you are supposed to spend longer in the courtship phase to develop that bond that will see you through the 8 month K-1 process.  I agree.

However, in my current case I'm putting together a visa for a girl after only 2 months of courtship but its because she's done everything but drop an anvil on my head to make me realize she wants to be with me more than anything.  It was all about finding a good girl who wants to get married and going from there.  Yeah she's already depressed by the thought of leaving everyone behind but she doesn't doubt her choice at all.

Well I don't know how much I buy into this developing-a-bond-so-you-can-last-8-months theory that others are purporting.  I think it's more specific to each couple.  I wish you the BEST of luck with the new woman, BTW!  Where is she from?  How did you meet her?

I agree with you that one of the keys to success is finding "a good girl" who wants marriage, absolutely.  'Problem was and is that both Diana and Olga seemed to be just that in the beginning but as I found out in the end, they're anything BUT good.  Who knew?  It's life.

Your two month thing brings up another aspect to this issue that I'd like to end with, one that has been suggested to me recently by my stateside terp.  When courting these FSUW a man needs to be ready to make a committment that is really kinda early by our standards.  Not by theirs however.  My terp told me that if I cannot do that then I shouldn't date FSUW.  She further said that the relationships that she sees have success and last in time didn't have a hiccup from the beginning to the end of the getting-her-over-here phase.  She further suggested that if that DOES happen (you have a hiccup) that you should just bail and cut your losses.  This approach seems rather aggressive and inflexible somehow, but had I followed it then neither of my cases of "the Cold Feet" would have occurred, that's for certain.  So I think I'll follow her advice this next time.  She IS a RW, so I'll give her a listen and give her advice some credence.  Just one opinion of course, but a valid one with an authentic origin, so hey...and again, it WOULD have prevented me from ever getting "the Cold Feet", so why not follow it?  I will this time, you betcha a$$.

Take care and keep us updated, ok?  Did you file with CSC or VSC?

Best,

Jerry

[av8or1]

Maybe because they're taken out of context, but all the above items sound rather childish to me.  I have a feeling that you cut both your girls a lot of slack in the matter of intellectual adequacy, be it for their FSU origin or for the blindness of love, or for some other reason. 

I actually notice that about many US-FSU relationships.  Many men seem to think, "it's okay if the girl is a little immature, after all she is only a Russian".  And then the relationship crumbles and they are soooo surprised.

Just my humble point of view, no offence meant.

No offense taken, no worries.  That was actually part of the reason behind my posting those quotes, to raise the issue of maturity in relation to their "devotion" (for lack of a better term) to their native country.  It showed through in other remarks too, like the ones I quoted.

Regarding your observation that many men seem to think it's ok if a girl is a little immature and they brush it off because she is Russian, I think that's going a bit far.  I don't know what point/counterpoint you're trying to support by making that assertion, but it seems like a stretch to me.  The reality is that most of the women I've dated in life are immature at times, be those women AW, RW, UW, FSUW whatever.  It almost seems part-n-parcel with dating.  Men can be immature sometimes too, fighting each other over a seat at a ballpark and the like.  So drawing a line in the sand isn't as easy as you'd make it out to be.  Also those comments I posted didn't come anywhere near each other in time.  Most of the negative ones came during the "fallout" of the breakup, for example, the "men are stupid" and the resentment of me being a "strong man", that kind of thing.  So keep it in context.  And no offense intended there either.

Thanks,

Jerry

[av8or1]

I don't want to get into another FSU vs US debate here, just want to point out that individuals have different priorities, different needs and desires and for some, those are best met in other countries.  Not everyone there is fighting to get to the US and not everyone in the US is choosing not to live somewhere else.

That's right on point Scott, they look at things differently than we do and simply don't care about many of the things we care about.  Heck, I had more than one conversation with Olga regarding the issue of air conditioning in the house.  She thought it was a waste of resources and that we were/are "tender" with our need for it here in the USA.  I told her maybe so, but it sure as heck beats sleeping in sweat during the TEXAS summers.  Just one example of differing priorities and opinions in this thing we call life...

Jerry

[Ooooops]

Just one example of differing priorities and opinions in this thing we call life...

I don't think it's a priority - it's only shows that she doesn't know what Texas summer is.    We lived in Texas 2.5 years (Dallas and Houston) and I can confess that it's nothing like Russian summer that lasts couple of weeks.   

[KenC]

Jerry,
You said:

One aspect of this that I didn't point out in my previous post (thanks for the comment, BTW) is that your FSUW needs to be, AND I MEAN NEEDS TO BE, accepting of other cultures.

I hate to disagree with you but Lena was never into America and if I heard it once I heard it a thousand times over 10 years, that if I wasn't in America, she would not be here.  Lena loves Russia, she prefers Russia and if I agreed to it, she would have us move to Russia tomorrow.  I will always appreciate all she gave up to be with me.  But that is my point here; she gave it all up for me.  When push came to shove, your girl wasn't able to give it all up for you.  The men have to realize that they are not only competing with other men (American or Russian) but with family, cultural, maybe professional and patriotic ties to the woman's present life.  These ties are especially difficult to walk away from if the woman is leading a decent life in her original environment.  (Desperate women come with a whole different set of issues.)

Blues Fairy,

I have a feeling that you cut both your girls a lot of slack in the matter of intellectual adequacy, be it for their FSU origin or for the blindness of love, or for some other reason. 

  This cracked me up!   In our case, it was Lena cutting me the slack in this area!
KenC

[BillyB]

cheating
like all sin originates in the heart. A *decision* (for whatever reason)
has been made in the person's *heart* to be unfaithful. It may then at
first only (or only) lead to emotional or verbal infidelity with someone not one's
spouse, but that is still a part of "cheating".

Does a person who think about cheating have a heart? Of course most everyone who is about to get divorced wish they had another man or woman in their life to fulfill their needs but that is not adultery according to man's law. Everyone seems to be using different definitions whether it's a psychologist's, personal or spiritual. The dictionary is clear and the issue can't be debated if everyone is using different definitions of what it states in the dictionary.

Cheating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

Olga, people like you and me write Wikipedia. Do you see those edit buttons on the page? I can write whatever I want for the definition of cheating. What I write can also be contested and taken down from the page if it's off the wall and I've seen off the wall statements from people one day that were taken down the next. Wikipedia is an excellent source for information but remember, it's not a dictionary or Encyclopedia written by top historians or experts in language that write dictionaries.

Scott, you must have spent a considerable amount of time of yours to look for dirt out of thousands of posts of mine and have taken some quotes out of context when made in fun. Why don't you give people links to the threads I made those statements at? Most people with brains can see I was having some fun with some of those statements although some are serious and I'm not embarrassed about writing them. I've even told my fiancee to feel free to read and participate here. Have you done the same with your wife? Next time your wife upsets you, let us know her reaction after you spend hours looking for dirt on her. You and a few other guys(you know who you are) do this to other posters here too when you're not happy with what they say. It's just the internet. Get a life.

[KenC]

Please people, do not confuse Billy with the facts!
 
KenC

[BillyB]

Ken, you're here morning, noon and night. Take a break from the computer and spend some time with the family. Rediscover the reason why you wanted to get married. Seriously.

[KenC]

Ken, you're here morning, noon and night. Take a break from the computer and spend some time with the family. Rediscover the reason why you wanted to get married. Seriously.

Billy,
Thank you for your concern.  It really isn't necessary as everything in the Ken & LenaC household is honky dory.  How about your's?
KenC

[OlgaH]

Olga, people like you and me write Wikipedia. Do you see those edit buttons on the page? I can write whatever I want for the definition of cheating.

So, try to fix the Wikipedia's article about cheating  and also a definition of cheat by Compact Oxford English Dictionary 

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/cheat?view=uk
cheat

  • verb 1 act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. 2 deprive of something by deceitful or unfair means. 3 avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill: she cheated death in a spectacular crash.

  • noun 1 a person who cheats. 2 an act of cheating.


How Emotional Cheating Starts
http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_emotional_cheating_starts

Are You an Emotional Cheat?
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060321-000006.html

With emotional affairs so prevalent, psychologists studying the issue have finally drawn some lines in the sand. You may be emotionally unfaithful, they say, if you:

    * Have a special confidante at the office, someone receptive to feelings and fears you can't discuss with your partner or spouse.
    * Share personal information and negative feelings about your primary relationship with a "special friend."
    * Meet a friend of the opposite sex for dinner and go back to his or her place to discuss your primary relationship over a drink, never calling your partner and finally arriving home at 3 a.m.
    * Humiliate your partner in front of others, suggesting he or she is a loser or inadequate sexually.
    * Have the energy to tell your stories only once, and decide to save the juiciest for an office or Internet friend of the opposite sex.
    * Hook up with an old boyfriend or girlfriend at a high school reunion and, feeling the old spark, decide to keep in contact by e-mail.
    * Keep secret, password-protected Internet accounts, "just in case," or become incensed if your partner inadvertently glances at your "private things."

[Wienerin]

I don't think it's a priority - it's only shows that she doesn't know what Texas summer is.    We lived in Texas 2.5 years (Dallas and Houston) and I can confess that it's nothing like Russian summer that lasts couple of weeks.   

Tell it to my kids, who last year had a couple of month in the 80s and low 90s - in StPetersburg. And mind you, the heat there - which may not seem much to you or me is bad-bad-BAD there beacuse of high humidity and lack of air conditioning. Try trudging on the sticky-hot asphalt between rows of these oH! so beautiful and gorgeous buildings (which do not allow a whiff of the breeze from the Baltic to reach you), breathing gas fumes, with your clothes sticking to you in all the wrong places... with the only cool place being the metro station - THEN talk to  me about short summers Talk to Doll about the summers in her native Kuban' - which is also Russia. Summers in Vladivostok can be pretty hot too - almost like in Tokyo...

[Ooooops]

THEN talk to  me about short summers

Ok, lets talk!     How many days a year the temperature is above +30-35C in those places you've mentioned? 

[ScottinCrimea]

Does a person who think about cheating have a heart? Of course most everyone who is about to get divorced wish they had another man or woman in their life to fulfill their needs but that is not adultery according to man's law. Everyone seems to be using different definitions whether it's a psychologist's, personal or spiritual. The dictionary is clear and the issue can't be debated if everyone is using different definitions of what it states in the dictionary.

Olga, people like you and me write Wikipedia. Do you see those edit buttons on the page? I can write whatever I want for the definition of cheating. What I write can also be contested and taken down from the page if it's off the wall and I've seen off the wall statements from people one day that were taken down the next. Wikipedia is an excellent source for information but remember, it's not a dictionary or Encyclopedia written by top historians or experts in language that write dictionaries.

Scott, you must have spent a considerable amount of time of yours to look for dirt out of thousands of posts of mine and have taken some quotes out of context when made in fun. Why don't you give people links to the threads I made those statements at? Most people with brains can see I was having some fun with some of those statements although some are serious and I'm not embarrassed about writing them. I've even told my fiancee to feel free to read and participate here. Have you done the same with your wife? Next time your wife upsets you, let us know her reaction after you spend hours looking for dirt on her. You and a few other guys(you know who you are) do this to other posters here too when you're not happy with what they say. It's just the internet. Get a life.

Billy, I have repeatedly asked you to provide a reference to the dictionary reference that you state is so obvious and clear in its agreement with your definition and you are unable to do so.  You just repeat the tired argument that "everyone knows what I say is true".  Instead, when Olga provides some pretty clear definitions to the contrary, with links and solid references, you choose one (Wikipedia) that you have used in the past as an authority to back up your arguments, and now try to discredit it.  Sorry, but you just can't have it both ways. What about all of the other sources she cited?  You're going to have to refute each and every one of then to make your argument stand up.  Give us a solid basis for showing that all of her references are wrong or just admit that maybe you are the one who's missing something.

It didn't take me hours to find those excerpts from your posts, actually it was pretty easy as I only had to look at a few.  I'm sure I could go back and find more, but those I provided showed things pretty clearly.  By asking me to show the links are you implying that these were not your quotes?  I really don't see how these quotes would appear any different in any context, but if you are so certain they were taken out of context, feel free to show it.

I find it sad that you have to resort to bringing my wife into this.  I purposely avoided discussing yours and find it rather pathetic and disgusting that you now resort to such.

Now let's get back to the issue you are dancing around. You accused KenC and I of having short memories and making false accusations about you because you claimed that you had only mentioned the importance of sex maybe one time.  Unless you claim that the posts I listed weren't yours, it's apparent that our memories are just fine, what we stated was true, and that what you stated was blatantly untrue.  I know you're not a fan of facts, but they show it's YOU who are making the false accusations.


We're still waiting for the apology......

[WmGO]

....but that is not adultery according to man's law. Everyone seems to be using different definitions whether it's a psychologist's, personal or spiritual. The dictionary is clear and the issue can't be debated if everyone is using different definitions of what it states in the dictionary.

Billy, I know you feel like people are trying to back you into a corner. Let me mediate.

I really respect and admire your views on family fidelity. You take it serious and your heart is in the right place. You correctly view sexual infidelity with moral disgust, as it should be. You take family values, commitment and responsibilty serious.  Bravo!

You are right. Everything is about definitions.

Your personal definition of "cheating" is basically the definition of adultery (in the context of marriage). And it is limited to sexual infidelity for the non-marital realtionship between a man and a woman. That is ok. These things ARE cheating.

But instead of being hard headed or defensive (since you are under attack from so many directions) just realize that there is also a more expansive definition of "cheating". That more expansive definition has been elaborated upon by me, Olga and others.

Bottom Line: cheating, in any of it's forms, is bad.  Especially sexual cheating. We all agree on that. We need a society that puts more value on fidelity to commitment, especially marital commitment.




 

[BC]

Quote from: DKMM on Today at 04:01:29
Sure they love their countries but nobody could be that foolish to think its a better country to live in than America.  Nobody who has been to both countries thinks that unless maybe they have a lot of money.  Especially Belarus, are you kidding me?
DKMM, There are many people who think that it is a better country to live in for a variety of reasons, personal as well as otherwise.  Don't call all of them fools.

I don't want to get into another FSU vs US debate here, just want to point out that individuals have different priorities, different needs and desires and for some, those are best met in other countries.  Not everyone there is fighting to get to the US and not everyone in the US is choosing not to live somewhere else.

Certainly agree with Scott on this.  My wife would not have considered US as a destination.  Yeah, the stores and snow crab legs were enticing though judging from her reactions during our last visit to the US

We're heading to RU this next weekend and it's my first time back since we married (mil and fil were here several times).  Should be interesting since at least for the store part the 'biggies' are now there.. IKEA, Metro, Auchan, etc etc leveling the playing field quite a bit.

On the flop side a kilo of good caviar awaits us..

This topic now about cheating??

Well, been there, done that so what's the big deal.  Either the relationship survives (slim chance) or flops and that's about all I gotta say about that except to say it's international.. happens all the time anywhere on this small planet.  It will always be up to the couple to work things out one way or the other.  With my very limited (1) experience with RW, there might be a very small chance to work things out should I go astray, but I'd rather not go there to begin with.

[av8or1]

Jerry,
You said:I hate to disagree with you but Lena was never into America and if I heard it once I heard it a thousand times over 10 years, that if I wasn't in America, she would not be here.  Lena loves Russia, she prefers Russia and if I agreed to it, she would have us move to Russia tomorrow.  I will always appreciate all she gave up to be with me.  But that is my point here; she gave it all up for me.  When push came to shove, your girl wasn't able to give it all up for you.  The men have to realize that they are not only competing with other men (American or Russian) but with family, cultural, maybe professional and patriotic ties to the woman's present life.  These ties are especially difficult to walk away from if the woman is leading a decent life in her original environment.  (Desperate women come with a whole different set of issues.)

Hey Ken,

Well I think we're talking about apples and oranges here, though I suppose we can agree to disagree, that's fine.  However I DO think your wife is more accepting of foreign cultures or else she wouldn't have come no matter how much she loved you.  And that was my point.  I don't deny that Olga's and Diana's love was suspect, but their inability/unwillingness to accept foreign cultures was considerable, and to a greater degree than that possessed by your now-wife (I would conclude).  And I'm not talking about her being "into America" either, again, you're amalgamating issues here; what you're referring to by saying "into America" is akin to someone "liking something" ... I am referring to someone "being tolerant" of something, which are different animals.  Both Diana and Olga were critical of ANY culture other than Russian/Belorussian, not just American culture.  See what I am saying?  Sure, your wife would prefer to live in Russia, but she had to have been open to other cultures, other ways of living life.  I don't believe, in retrospect, that either Diana or Olga were open to doing that.  Was their love for me not enough?  No, it was lacking.  But the point I'm making is that it would have been that way for any man, not just me.  Now that may appear to be a way of my shielding myself from a harsher truth in your eyes, but it isn't.  In the final analysis they were already with another guy, I know that, so it doesn't get much harsher than that, IMO.

Said another way, a FSUW's personality has to be conducive to being "open" to different views about life and how to live it.  I suspect that your wife has this type of personality.  Diana and Olga did not have this, I always felt that they were a bit "more closed off" to things, especially to foreign ways.  However, they both said that they loved me enough to live in another country.  In the end that, of course, wasn't the case, their "closed off" personality won-out and neither intends to ever date with a foreign man again.  I heard that Diana later married some Belorussian guy and Olga told me that she would only consider Russian men from Tver in the future.  So was it me?  Ummmm...yes and no I think, more no than yes.  What it really was, and now I'm a broken record, is an inability to accept things non-Russian/Belorussian.  Neither woman wanted to do that in the end and I believe that this was at the heart of their "Cold Feet" and subsequent betrayal (ergo finding a local guy before ending relations with me).  Other mitigating factors were influences by others in her life, family/friends, and the long-distance aspect of our relationship.  Those were also clearly significant and contributory to the eventual outcome.

But anyway, this gets at the notion of this "Epidemic of Cold Feet" ... why it happens, etc. and my point is that if a FSUW seems to have strong ties to her native motherland and seems to not be open to other cultures and to living her life slightly differently than she is accustomed to in that native motherland, then the guy should consider looking elsewhere.  That would be my advice.

Thanks,

Jerry

[KenC]

Jerry,
Any discussion between us regarding which woman liked or disliked America more will always be relative and inconclusive.  Your point of exploring the depth of the woman's commitment to her Motherland is a valid concern.  Doc Woody, the previous owner of LTP, used to promote a concept he called "Converse in reverse."  The basic idea was to almost press the woman for a commitment to relocate to your home country before even attempting to develop a relationship.  Like most things involving 20/20 hindsight, this idea might have saved you some heartache.  But then again, maybe not.
KenC

[steviej]

Still, I don't understand why a woman would engage the services of a marriage agency that specifically makes introductions for FSUW to foreign men if her ties to her native land were too strong to leave. To generalize it, I would think that these women are a self-selected group of women for whom marriage and finding the right man as husband is more important than staying in her native land. Conversely, if I met a woman while I was traveling around (not through an agency) I could imagine a higher likelyhood that, if I (we) fell in love, the issue of moving to another country could be more traumatic. But women that have signed up at an international marriage agency have already passed that point, I think. Perhaps if a woman is too immature for all this then, in the beginning, the romantic idea of meeting foreign men for courtship may cloud the reality which she confronts later -that of leaving her native land to be with her husband. So, immaturity could lead to that, I guess. But still, I think perhaps that level of immaturity would be visible before the whole K-1 process was underway anyway. Although men do not think clearly around beautiful women. We never have, and nature does not want us to. Nature has clearly programmed us to be irrational in this domain. One of the main reasons for the existence of this forum is due to this conundrum

[Ooooops]

Still, I don't understand why a woman would engage the services of a marriage agency that specifically makes introductions for FSUW to foreign men if her ties to her native land were too strong to leave.

I think that excuse "I can't leave my country" is pretty much along the line with "it's not you, it's me".      Just to make the dumped feel a bit better.... 

[ScottinCrimea]

Many younger FSUW have a different reason for signing up with these agencies than do the older ones.  some do it just out of curiosity, on a lark with a group of friends, or as a way to find penpals to practice their english with.  Even if they aren't seriously looking for a foreign husband, the agency may coach them in what to put on their profiles to get responnses, since it is also in the ageny's best interest to have letters written to her.  Thus, I don't think you can say, especially with the yonger ones, that they self select.

[steviej]

Many younger FSUW have a different reason for signing up with these agencies than do the older ones.  some do it just out of curiosity, on a lark with a group of friends, or as a way to find penpals to practice their english with.  Even if they aren't seriously looking for a foreign husband, the agency may coach them in what to put on their profiles to get responnses, since it is also in the ageny's best interest to have letters written to her.  Thus, I don't think you can say, especially with the yonger ones, that they self select.

True, there is the business-angle from the agencies perspective. And for the younger girls especially, how much fun must it be to see men come from all over the world to see you (and maybe the 1 guy you liked in high school didn't even want to see you!) ?? So, that can get you through the initial selection on the wrong foot. But still, I think the immaturity and insincerity would show up pretty quick.

[KenC]

Many younger FSUW have a different reason for signing up with these agencies than do the older ones.  some do it just out of curiosity, on a lark with a group of friends, or as a way to find penpals to practice their english with.  Even if they aren't seriously looking for a foreign husband, the agency may coach them in what to put on their profiles to get responnses, since it is also in the ageny's best interest to have letters written to her.  Thus, I don't think you can say, especially with the yonger ones, that they self select.

Scott,
I think your thoughts are right on point here.  At least from my experience with Lena.  Some women just do not think the concept through to the ultimate conclusion (relocating).  I know it sounds silly, but Lena joined a marriage agency catering to Americans when she was not truly interested in marrying an American or moving to America.  She joined as you said, on a lark and to practice her English skills.  
KenC

[Ooooops]

KenC, isn't easier to practice English skills on forums or ICQ or something?    Why join marriage agency and give false hopes to somebody?