Epidemic of Cold Feet

[ScottinCrimea]

One thing that pleasantly surprised me when I first went to Ukraine is that I had expected them to have ill feelings toward Americans because of the cold war, etc.  Instead I found that they draw a very clear distinction between the American people and the American government and were nothing but friendly and warm toward me.  I don't see Americans making this distinction so well when they meet Russians.

I'm curious, Ooooops - when you write that people around the world are saying they don't like Americans, are they complaining about the commonn citizen or the government?

[msmoby_ru]

One thing that pleasantly surprised me when I first went to Ukraine is that I had expected them to have ill feelings toward Americans because of the cold war, etc.  Instead I found that they draw a very clear distinction between the American people and the American government and were nothing but friendly and warm toward me.  I don't see Americans making this distinction so well when they meet Russians.

I'm curious, Ooooops - when you write that people around the world are saying they don't like Americans, are they complaining about the commonn citizen or the government?

Hi Scott, I know I'm not Oooops..... but ... I am normally surrounded by Russian speakers - who live or have houses in Cyprus... I am constantly shocked at the anti-American sentiment shown - and by inference to Britain , too ( we are the "US's lap dogs!") ...

"Americans are stupid" .. "they know nothing of what is going on outside their county" ..."they think they are the world's policeman" ... "they want to control the supply of oil" ... "they tell us how to run our elections, yet their's are not fair"...  The acts of the govt., are reflecting on it's citizens, it seems...

Please note I'm quoting - not agreeing

This is one reason *I* perfer to travel using my Irish passport - esp. in Russia

[ScottinCrimea]

Mark, we need to separate these statements into two themes.  They have always thought that Americans are stupid and don't know what is going on outside their country.  That hasn't changed much no matter what the government does or doesn't do and they don't dislike us for it, they just think we are childish.  The other statements reflect on what the US government is doing and, though they may express their dislike for America in general, it doesn't reflect their feelings for the citizens.

Try asking them directly if it is the US governmentt they don't like or the individual citzens themselves.  I would be interested in hearing how they answer.

[steviej]

... I'm curious, Ooooops - when you write that people around the world are saying they don't like Americans, are they complaining about the commonn citizen or the government?

Those feelings get mixed together, IMO. I've traveled globally on business frequently over the past few years, and again IMO, the enchantment with Americans seems to be declining. This seems most true since (and during) the reign of Bush. That's the price we  pay for having the worst president in history, and the biggest idiot of any leader anywhere in the advanced world today. Individually, do they like me any less? No. But collectively they like America, and Americans, less.

[Ronnie]

Those feelings get mixed together, IMO. I've traveled globally on business frequently over the past few years, and again IMO, the enchantment with Americans seems to be declining. This seems most true since (and during) the reign of Bush. That's the price we  pay for having the worst president in history, and the biggest idiot of any leader anywhere in the advanced world today. Individually, do they like me any less? No. But collectively they like America, and Americans, less.

Surveys of historians, balanced in their politics rate Bush middle of the pack overall.  (I dislike him intensely but probably for reasons different from yours).  Carter, who is still out running around embarassing America is ranked in the worst 5 or so.  Bush is only president because the majority party failed twice to put anyone any better up against him.  One who thought he invented the internet and the other who thought he was JFK reincarnated because he had the same initials.  Nice job.

People will express dislike of America no matter who's in the whitehouse, all the while wondering how they can get a visa to immigrate.  It's classic sour grapes. 

[steviej]

Surveys of historians, balanced in their politics rate Bush middle of the pack overall.  (I dislike him intensely but probably for reasons different from yours).  Carter, who is still out running around embarassing America is ranked in the worst 5 or so.  Bush is only president because the majority party failed twice to put anyone any better up against him.  One who thought he invented the internet and the other who thought he was JFK reincarnated because he had the same initials.  Nice job.

People will express dislike of America no matter who's in the whitehouse, all the while wondering how they can get a visa to immigrate.  It's classic sour grapes. 

The surveys I've read have him at the bottom. My own study of American history for 20 yrs also has  him at the bottom. I'm not liberal either. For me, Lincoln is one of the worst presidents ever too, even though we are trained to revere him.

[Ronnie]

The surveys I've read have him at the bottom. My own study of American history for 20 yrs also has  him at the bottom. I'm not liberal either. For me, Lincoln is one of the worst presidents ever too, even though we are trained to revere him.

Yes, there are such surveys among current history professors.  The proplem is that their politics were overwhelmly liberal.  The only survey that makes sense is one where the historians were balanced across the political spectrum.  Lincoln, BTW always ranked in the top 5.  I think history tends to put a premium of resolute wartime presidents who don't buckle under popular pressure.  Johnson was also rated poorly, probably because he did buckle.

[msmoby_ru]

Mark, we need to separate these statements into two themes.  They have always thought that Americans are stupid and don't know what is going on outside their country.  That hasn't changed much no matter what the government does or doesn't do and they don't dislike us for it, they just think we are childish.  The other statements reflect on what the US government is doing and, though they may express their dislike for America in general, it doesn't reflect their feelings for the citizens.

Try asking them directly if it is the US governmentt they don't like or the individual citzens themselves.  I would be interested in hearing how they answer.

Answers as requested : ( note not my opinion - I am a "right wing British, US loving, blue boy" .. "to ask such a stupid question"

Russian ( non citizen of Latvia ) - Govt and people, too - they voted 2 times for Bush

Russian ( Moscowvite) male - Thinks values should go back to how they were in Soviet times ( but lives in Cyprus - go figure ) "US Govt wants to keep Russia weak - electorate are STUPID to vote for Bush, twice."

Russian ( Moscowvite) Female - highly intelligent multiple MBAs to her name - "who gives a Sh*t, Mark ) pass the wine.. I prefer Canadians .. "

Cypriot Male ( married to Russian ) - "F*ck Americans - they give money to the Turks to invade our little island.. and encouraged the stupid Greek Junta to try and kill our President.. I hate Kissinger and Bush .. I hate them for invading Iraq, and I hate the Bloody British for letting them keep their spy planes in Cyprus... "

I say, what do you think of the people . Costas? .. "What can you think of a nation who's people voted for Bush"

"Stop discussing bl**dy Americans and open another bottle......"




Good night

[Kuna]

People will express dislike of America no matter who's in the whitehouse, all the while wondering how they can get a visa to immigrate.  It's classic sour grapes. 

Ronnie,

To put it simply, if you really believe this you're probably a part of the problem.

I think America has lost it's position in the world because of arrogance, and it's the arrogance that makes Americans (not all, but many) look stupid.

Almost no one LIKES America now... some tolerate, but many loathe.

It's not just Bush and politics too though...  it goes much deeper than that.

Kuna

[steviej]

Yes, there are such surveys among current history professors.  The proplem is that their politics were overwhelmly liberal.  The only survey that makes sense is one where the historians were balanced across the political spectrum.  Lincoln, BTW always ranked in the top 5.  I think history tends to put a premium of resolute wartime presidents who don't buckle under popular pressure.  Johnson was also rated poorly, probably because he did buckle.

Bush is nowhere near the middle, not in any survey, "balanced" or not. He is a failure of broad dimension. He is, and will remain, in history's cellar. Lincoln cause the death of 500,000 young men needlessly. For this he is revered. Go figure ??

[Ronnie]

Ronnie,

To put it simply, if you really believe this you're probably a part of the problem.

I think America has lost it's position in the world because of arrogance, and it's the arrogance that makes Americans (not all, but many) look stupid.
Almost no one LIKES America now... some tolerate, but many loathe.
It's not just Bush and politics too though...  it goes much deeper than that.
Kuna

Just about everything America does, OZ, the UK and Canada have been right there too.  All those places seem be inhabited by fairly self-assured people.  Why does America get singled out?

[steviej]

I've never seen a pickup truck in a European country with a bellowing bumper sticker "love it or leave it." Do the Europeans love their native lands? Oh yes, dearly, deeply, organically.

[ScottinCrimea]

Bush is nowhere near the middle, not in any survey, "balanced" or not. He is a failure of broad dimension. He is, and will remain, in history's cellar. Lincoln cause the death of 500,000 young men needlessly. For this he is revered. Go figure ??

Sorry stevie, but in the two polls I've seen that Wikipedia lists, Bush Jr is rated 19th in one and 23rd in the other out of 46 presidents.  That places him squarely in the middle.  Can you show me some polls where he ranks lower?  I don't have time to look right now but would be open to seeing some.

I'm just curious.  What were Lincoln's realistic options other than the war?

[steviej]

Sorry stevie, but in the two polls I've seen that Wikipedia lists, Bush Jr is rated 19th in one and 23rd in the other out of 46 presidents.  That places him squarely in the middle.  Can you show me some polls where he ranks lower?  I don't have time to look right now but would be open to seeing some.

I'm just curious.  What were Lincoln's realistic options other than the war?

About survey, I'll try to find it. It was a few weeks ago.

About Lincoln, I know my opinion is unusual. But, the US was the ONLY country in the world to get embroiled in a civil war (massive and devastating one at that) to end slavery. No one ever asks, "Why is that" Everywhere else, slavery ended peacefully. The Articles of Confederation,, and their implied continuance in the constitution, gave any "7 or more" states that were disatisfied with the federal government the right to secede. The actions of the southern states were legal. So, what should have happened? Something more like Brazil. The southern states secede, all of europe and the northern states impose draconian trade sanctions, the economy of the south caves in, their leaders meet, open negotiations to rejoin the union, where the abolition of slavery is a condition of discussions. They agree. This would have been worked out within 5-10 years. How long could the southern states have continued as the only rogue slave state and pariah in the Western world? Not long. Lincoln acted only because he knew he had the superior capability to make war against the South, and pound the sh*t out of them, so he did. (I grew up in the North, by the way). I think of it as one of the most senseless and illegal slaughters of all time. However, I am aware that it is quite an unusual opinion. Lincoln has been marketed as a hero for so long, I don't think anyone even considers an independent evaluation anymore. I don't sweat bullets debating folks about it. But if they ask, I like to give them something to think about that differs from the party line a bit.

[Jumper]

billy-
the odds that sexual compatabilty isues,
had much to do with any of the recent bouts of cold feet is really stretching,
so to give advice on how to "manage " that possibilty,
when you are only guessing that it is even a factor in the first place, is odd.

can you accept the fact ,
that in either of the cases gator was bringing up-
or an yothers for that matter,
that its entirely plausible that the FSU woman might  not really be
 that great in bed themselves?
it does take 2 to tango.

regardless the overwhelming odds are that compatibilty in this area had little or nothing to do with them choosing not to relocate.
 
just sayin'


Jerry, many nice posts. thanks for the insights.

number 12 concers me, since you did catch both of them in lies ..
i  do find that kind of sticks out.
the rest seems completely normal.

 i completely relate and believe you could have done little if anything differently.

jerry stated

The FSUW who will actually come to a foreign country to marry with her foreign man is a "special kind" of FSUW, and by "special" I don't mean the kind of uniquess we ALL apply to our beloved ones, I mean that there are certain attributes to her personality, her circumstances in life, her overriding life goals and her willingness to accept a foreign culture into her life.  The FSUW who have these qualities that are in correct alignment "enough" to actually make the leap across the pond "come in various shapes and sizes", so you cannot narrow it down to a type of profession, geographical location (big city versus small city/village argument - I HATE that cr@p), familial background or educational level/religious beliefs.

nice post jerry.

it's been said before here as well, that it takes a certain personality type to go thru with this.
especially in a culture that tends to be negative , or more accurately, they often do not truly believe in something, untill it exists in thier hands.
that isnt unique to the FSU-
as afterall we have our own missouri "show me" state ?

The immigrants that made America,were  unique personalities.
This process isn't that much different, and it does take someone a bit more adventuersome and tolerant, on average,
 to not only contemplate it, but proceed thru it.

Blues fairy -and groov-
 some nice points as well

I will say my wife had a lot of doubts before relocating here,
 she never wanted to, and had a lot of pressure from friends family and aquantences to not do so.,
tales of woe, and how awful  it would be, blown out of porportion stories etc etc etc.

I think some of it is the "crabs in a bucket syndrome"

Luckily she had a strong sese of self,is VERY strong minded and able
to make her own opinions and decisions, and will look into the facts rather than believe hersay.
i've seen plenty of RW that would be easily swayed by the same grief she took.

so again i concur with jerrys thoughts that it could be simply  very personality based.

but ultimately this information, if accurate (and its only speculation)
will be mostly useless?

Can you search for a certain persnality type? yes.

will the nuicenses of human relationships ,
and whom you are attracted to both physically and emotionally,
 be swayed by the fact you were instead "looking" for this or that personality type?
quite likely no!

you'll fall in love,(true love) , with a person that suits you.(duh)
and that certainly  doesnt mean they are suited for relocation, leaving friends and family and a famaliar culture behind.

heck  I would say from my observations that  people
often fall deeply in love with partners that are not even truly good
for them.
they cant choose to fall in love with someone good for them...
much less defining a personality type that might be more adaptive to relocating..

i'm not saying i'm any different!
 I fell for who i fell for.
if she hadnt have been a type to be able to follow thru in relocating ,
it wouldnt have changed my path in romance.
(and i wouldn't have known until the eleventh hour?)

I'm sorry to say i think it is often luck of the draw,
and if you are naturally attracted to a more adventuresome self sufficiant type.(and just as importantly ,them to you?) may play into
it as well?

You'd like to think that someone signing up with an agency is ready to relocate.
 i dont find this to be true at all.
Most RW dont really think in thier minds it will "actually" happen anyway, so thinking it through to conclusion is often simply not done,untill its Dday.

call it what you want-
immaturity., cultural differences ,
or simply a way to easily brush a guy off..
(its not you, its me )
but i think there is more substance to the fact few really truly think it thru,unitil they are actually facing the reality,
 than is looked into in this thread.

while the men 'generally' approach this with a positive, attitude that it will or at least may indeed happen.

the FSU woman odds are much longer,and the reality truly is that it will not likely happen!!!!!!!!
seriously why would her thoughts be any different?

so fundamentally ,from the very start,
and despite any cultural differences,
 she will look at this from a very different perspectve than the WM.
simply from the reality-
Most will not even meet a western man, much less actually marry one.


I saw a lot of great points in this post,
thats the only one i saw missing..

*shrugs*

as far as political discussions of bush or lincoln,
it seems to be far off of why a fsu woman might percieve America as not a place to relocate to.

i was spit on and heard *yankee go home*
long before the first bush was president,much less the second.

The reasons why a FSU woman might not find relocating to america as appealing today as 5 years ago or ten years ago..
would have a lot more issue to it, than simply who has been in office?
 world temperment has varied,
..its only speculation that it would be better or worse under different adminstration. There are a lot of other factors involved.
The political soap box isn't one most FSU women will be wrapped up in. IMHO.

Most are a bit more pragmatic,and concerned more about thier immediate situation and intended spouse.
Like most of the people of the world , politics are something you
might discuss ,but good or bad they are likely not affecting thier daily life decisions of the moment a whole lot.

call my wife immature or what you will,
but who was president of the USA,
wouldnt have been nearly as important as contact with her family..
(the size of the phone bill)
which pet she could bring..
or wether *proper* fruits, and  cosmetics were readily availible.

this is far more along the lines of what most couples will actually
 face ,
than deciding where on the list of all time presidents any of them rank.
 

YMMV  ,but i doubt it.

[msmoby_ru]

Sorry stevie, but in the two polls I've seen that Wikipedia lists, Bush Jr is rated 19th in one and 23rd in the other out of 46 presidents.  That places him squarely in the middle.  Can you show me some polls where he ranks lower?  I don't have time to look right now but would be open to seeing some.

I'm just curious.  What were Lincoln's realistic options other than the war?

Hi Scott,
search under google for "who is the worst us president"

Very easy and illuminating - As a non US citizen, I learnt a lot about Presidents I'd never heard of...

[Gator]

Mark and Kuna,

If Americans are so bad as you express, why do you choose to participate in a discussion forum with Americans representing a vast majority of participants?

Rhetorical questions answer themselves:  each of you, having a good soul and wanting to make the world better, feel a noble duty to enlighten us.

[msmoby_ru]

Mark and Kuna,

If Americans are so bad as you express, why do you choose to participate in a discussion forum with Americans representing a vast majority of participants?

Rhetorical questions answer themselves:  each of you, having a good soul and wanting to make the world better, feel a noble duty to enlighten us.

Gator: I like reading your posts, I often agree, and sometimes don't.. I'm WELL aware that non Americans are in the minority here... I judge people for what they are - not where they come from ...I  come from a F'd up country ( N.Ireland ) .. I learnt LONG ago that labels/ generalisations - based on religion / national identity can land one in hot water..

So, if you'll check , again - I'm quoting, and I posted a reply to Scott, as requested ....



Newsflash: I've travelled USA widely - not yet Canada - for biz and pleasure and have friends in Southern California, South Florida(!) and Wisconsin ... 

I wondered if an American would "assume" too much... shame it had to be you...

[Gator]

Mark,  I realize when quoting opinions from your social sphere, you had the caveat: 

Answers as requested : ( note not my opinion - I am a "right wing British, US loving, blue boy" .. "to ask such a stupid question"

Yet, do all of your acquaintances dislike the US?  If not, you could have given a balanced perspective.   

[You and I are are splitting hairs lately.  Add my above comment to the list.]

Tell me of a better place than America to be in business, to raise children, and to protect our wealth.  Please consider the changing demographics of the world, the fracturing of business, and the merits of a Judeo-Christian culture when giving a better alternative.  Australia is a possible option.  I think none of Europe can qualify.

[Jumper]

steviej said

I've never seen a pickup truck in a European country with a bellowing bumper sticker "love it or leave it." Do the Europeans love their native lands? Oh yes, dearly, deeply, organically.

yes that's very true!
equally since i've lived all over the world,
i've not often seen a country , where the residents, or new immigrants 
were often bitterly complaining about it,or bellowing for change specifically for their benefit.. and so such  a bumper stickers point would be mute (at least in that context)
 
in coutries these conditions existed, there were usually acts far beyond any bumper sticker.
in general the rate of somewhat hard headed misguided national pride ,in other countries, can be equally high to the USA.
There are countries more open minded!
and there are also different types of red necks the world around.
if you havn't noticed them..it doesnt mean the US has a monopoly on them.


IMHO- Your soap box isn't very stable.

in fact it's rather ironic on a forum discussing the FSU,
Where misguided nationalistic pride ,is a defining *right* of the people  LOL
and few married WM , havnt run smack up against it in thier wives.
 
even more ironic considering,
"love it, or leave it"
being displayed in Ukraine or Russia, would define whats actually happening!
(especially by many of the discussions in this forum? what is GCG doing afterall? )
 

the FSU nations, of modern industrilized nations, are the omly ones  where the population is declining.
they may love it, but they are leaving it, and at an alarming rate.
yes there are other factors,
,but you can't miss the irony of what you posted,
 on what essentially is an immigration out of the FSU, to the west, ,based forum!

[steviej]

,but you can't miss the irony of what you posted,
 on what essentially is an immigration out of the FSU, to the west, ,based forum!

Actually, the demographics for white people all over the world are grim, not just FSU. According to UN in 2005 (might have been 2006) the birth rate for white people was down to 1.7/couple. In FSU its down to 1.4. Biologically you have to have minimum 2.1 to break even. So, whether we "love it or leave it" or not, we're on our way out. On any kind of evolutionary time scale, 1.7/couple is rapid extinction. Wierd, isn't it? (I know that's a bit of point ...)

[msmoby_ru]

Mark,  I realize when quoting opinions from your social sphere, you had the caveat: 

"Answers as requested : ( note not my opinion - I am a "right wing British, US loving, blue boy" .. "to ask such a stupid question"...  

 "The social sphere" ( in this case ) was clearly non British, non US - the quote was from a male Moscowvite.. are you hinting something about the company I keep ?  

Must I socialise with folk who have the same beliefs as me ? - how dull !  I like a good debate - did you work that out, yet?

This is not an untypical viewpoint in Cyprus - where the Greek Cypriots felt they were pawns in the Cold war game and got shafted by the UK and US .

 FSU folk - esp. Russians - are more proud, again ( Clever Putin ) and really anti the stategic defence missile system  - planned to be located in Poland and Czech Republic. If you watch their news and BBC / CNN re Kosovo - it is highly illuminating....

Yet, do all of your acquaintances dislike the US?  If not, you could have given a balanced perspective.   

Sorry Gator -that WAS the "balanced" perspective from the people sat with me..

[You and I are are splitting hairs lately.  Add my above comment to the list.] - already scored another "point" to me, then  ))

My feelings about the US are much more "positive" than you would credit - that's why dinner parties at ours can be "interesting"

Tell me of a better place than America to be in business, to raise children, and to protect our wealth. 

 Please consider the changing demographics of the world, the fracturing of business, and the merits of a Judeo-Christian culture when giving a better alternative. 

Strange Question... Why do *I* have to agree to answer within the tight framework of a question making an ideal society concept which I do not wholely agree with ?!

Any answer is subjective - based on one's priorities.. BUT.. as you asked..

I live in a another F'd up country where I'd prefer to see a Judaeo-Christian-Muslim concept - except for the fact The Orthodox Christians ( more fanatic) and Moslems  ( Turkish Cyps are not exactly fundamentalists!) can't actually live together - they will and would if the US didn't prop up Turkey, to keep a "friend" - The UK is just as culpable..

Even though it is probably one of THE most militarised nations - based on numbers of troops per head of population - it is safe for ladies to walk alone, go to the beach, crime is low, narcotics is much less of an issue.. etc, etc..  Unlike the UK, few drunks cause problems at the weekends - apart from UK troops and pissed up Brits on holiday..

If I wanted children to speak Greek ( not a priority for me ) the education system is good - to go private doesn't break the bank... We get many cultural events and live well .. We've seen Sting , Bryan Adans, Botchelli, Flamenco, Ballets, Cuban Music Festivals .. many athletes and soccer teams come to train.. we can Ski in the morning and swim in the Med in the winter..bla bla.. We have a diverse choice of restaurants and cuisine, Russian Greek, English, Arabic, Turkish are all important languages and can be spoken / heard within a short car ride..   Where can you do all that in the US?

Come to think of it, I'd like to see more Hindus, Budists, et al thrown in..   You seem to be forgetting some of the ideals the US was founded on.

Cyprus is a pretty good place to live.. EU. but low income tax, etc.

Australia is a possible option.  I think none of Europe can qualify.

I might choose New Zealand over Australia based on your criteria.

Outside of London, I'd chose Scotland or any part of Ireland / Wales and smaller cities in the UK over the US ( I might be right wing) but I like a National Health system...

If I spoke better French - not bad, but not perfect, I'd say ( rural ) France is a good place to retire to, and not so bad to bring up kids..

Never been to Canada, but I have lots of relatives that emigrated to there and love it.. Fancy BC.. or Toronto - based on a whim.

The USA such a BIG place - one can't say I don't like it, don't want to live there - -it's a DAFT as saying don't want to live in Europe .. it's DIVERSE.. There are many places I wouldn't mind living - How about Colorado / near lake Tahoe?..

I've stayed long periods of time in S.Florida and S.California - loved it .. but not sorry to move on. Faster pace of life - many folk losing sight of reality / reason to live - -taking drugs - as some sort of answer - too much competitiveness - pressure to "appear" successful - witness the credit crunch - and I really dislike a perceived Christian fundamentalistic attitude that seems to say "we are the right path, the only path" .. how this can happen can only be some kind of protectionist reaction to change ... This was found more in the south, but it seems to be spreading..


You know, I like some of the FSU values.. like the Cypriots - they don't send their elderly relatives to homes - the Mums's bring up their kids -rather than having to go to work..



Gator: home really is where the heart is.. I don't care where it is, as long as my family is happy..!

This was a silly exercise - we were talking about why America / Amercans aren't "popular... Even *I* know you didn't all vote for Mr Bush - twice..

[steviej]

Mark (it is Mark, isn't it?)
You have made many useful and important observations in your above post. I agree with them. In US, we really are brainwashed about what our quality of life is compared to other places in the world. We have many kinds of cultural disfuctions, and a disease of hyper competitiveness that is killing the middle class with stress now. Our middle class continues to be depopulated and squeezed, while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This is a trend that has developed only over the last 5 - 10 years. Your description of Cyprus sounds wonderful, and now I'm curious to visit there, as I have never done so. But my career has taken me to many other civilized countries around the world, and I was surprised (initially) at how many nice places there were. American has many wonderful things, but we also have many pathologies. We need to open our eyes and learn from the good things that have been accomplished in other countries, IMHO.

[Ronnie]

Actually, the demographics for white people all over the world are grim, not just FSU. According to UN in 2005 (might have been 2006) the birth rate for white people was down to 1.7/couple. In FSU its down to 1.4. Biologically you have to have minimum 2.1 to break even. So, whether we "love it or leave it" or not, we're on our way out. On any kind of evolutionary time scale, 1.7/couple is rapid extinction. Wierd, isn't it? (I know that's a bit of point ...)

Stevie, In another thread there is a discussion of the effects of abortion.  60% of pregnancies in the FSU are aborted.  Certainly at this rate Russians will destroy themselves and the vacant land will be Sinofied (is that a word?) in the east and Arabicated (?) in the west. 

[Ronnie]

AJ, I loved your explanation of the "love it or leave it" slogan.  You're right!  What you missed is the fact that no country save perhaps Britain is so openly self critical.  We have an opposition press when a conservative administration has be put in.  The opposition press runs a little silent when their man/woman is in office however.  This leads to the feeling abroad that it's fine to critize America because everyone's doing it.

When the local press in Germany for instance, does not criticize it's government, the citizens tend to follow that lead.  Nobody likes the idea of being out of step with the mainstream, especially in Europe, the consequences can be harsh.

Therefore, I suggest that besides, sour grapes, America is criticized in large part because Americans and the American press are the pathsetters for it.