A letter to Ambach123

[GreginGa]

I know a couple of people that can get you hooked up with a nice apartment on Khreshatic,which is where you want to be. The apartments should be cheaper than the hotel and you'll have a fridge,stove, and no one asking who the girls might be. A cell phone is a must. I just dont know about that particular agency. Hey man you're going to hopefully learn so much on this first trip. The weather is going to be nice in Sept. There will still be some skirts out. You're going to be a busy man thats for sure but you'll have a good time.

[Ooooops]

ambach123, if you'd like some help with Russian alphabet you can open a topic about it and us, Russian speakers, can try to explain the difficult parts to you.      I think that reading Russian is pretty easy, my husband learned it very quick.   Understanding is a different thing, though.   

[TwoBitBandit]

I got the idea from my wife who was complaining how the agency wanted her to show a photo in a bikini.  She will wear a thong on the beach, yet feels that it is improper on the Internet.  You will notice that many women do not show such photos even though the agency asks for them.  To me, it is a sign of desperation.  Also, I think a woman's shape (if she has a good figure) is very apparent in high quality, loose fitting designer clothing

BTW, their is no correlation between amount of skin in photos and willingness to go to bed.  Some women think all men are interested only in sex, and they play that angle, leading and teasing a man as if her body is the Holy Grail.  Other women when they feel comfortable with you, find you interesting, have had a few laughs, realize that you are sincerely interested in their minds.....will jump your bones.

A bikini may be okay dependent upon how the woman is posing.  Is it a playful photo or is she .....?

I've met a number of agency girls who posed in bikinis for their photos.  When I met them, every one of them just seemed like trouble to me.  I think it's more than a coincidence... 

[felix8787]

Ambach123 here are some links that I use to help me with learning Russian, hope this helps.

http://www.livelaughlovelearn.com/gloss/
http://www.travelblog.org/World/russian-audio.html
http://library.reed.edu/lang/russian/russian_sound/Read_Russian_Letters.html
http://www.library.reed.edu/lang/russian/russian_sound/Russian_Sound_System.html
http://www.search4russianbride.com/russian-verbal-phrases.htm
http://library.reed.edu/lang/russian/russian_sound/Russian_Sound_Intro.html
http://www.meighan.net/alexander/index.htm

http://www.byki.com/fls/FLS_ga11.html?engine=adwords!9236&keyword=[before+you+know+it]&match_type=
This one here you can download free software on alot of languages including Russian, which I have, it will be in Russian and translerated so that you can follow along in english and it has a turtle botton to slow down how they prononce the words.
Mind you it has alot of words and saying but even more if you purchase their delux version. Which I didn't get but will in the future plus get the rosetta stone also to help me.
With practice I got alot of words down but it doesn't contain complete sentences, just your basic words to at least get you by.


felix8787

[msmoby_ru]

Agree with Groovlstk - better to meet in a restaurant, etc.  In Kiev, I met women at O'Brien's Pub.  All the professional daters know where it is. 

Gator, I REALLY don't think amabach's style is going to be O'Brien's.... probably because

1/ I like it - the atmosphere - on a live music night - I've had some some great biz meetings there
2/ it gets INCREDIBLY smoky, and if your're eating there are far better places where the air is cleaner
3/ I visualise ambach in his dark suit and tie - NAW.. don't see it myself..

Also, be sure to have a local cell phone.

I THINK you mean a local sim card - that will work in a cell phone - he needs to check his cell phone(s) will work on Euro GSM/ 3G frequencies.. Buying a sim - Maiden Square - and opp on the main shopping street - lots of choices - but *I'd* go into dedicated  Kyiv Star shop - find someone speaking good English - and get a prepaid sim - and get them to fit it and TEST it.

I got the idea from my wife who was complaining how the agency wanted her to show a photo in a bikini.  She will wear a thong on the beach, [msmoby_ru - too much info ] yet feels that it is improper on the Internet.  You will notice that many women do not show such photos even though the agency asks for them.  To me, it is a sign of desperation.  Also, I think a woman's shape (if she has a good figure) is very apparent in high quality, loose fitting designer clothing

Only have one experience of dating a woman who posted a shot of herself in a bikini on a dating site - ( never did meet a woman via an agency) - it was deliberately blurred - but you got the idea. She was a 10 and knew it, spoke good English, had her own business, money, apartment , able to travel abroad,  car, young child, VERY intelligent - but a little lacking in  common sense. She got sent lots of photos from men who thought she'd be impressed with them wearing even less ..After four years trying, she was still "on the market" a year ago.. and was still posting THAT photo and was suddenly five years younger ..

She wasn't "desparate", five years ago - when she posted THAT photo, but may be now... very sad...

Let's be honest guys, we WANT to know how good our lady might look in bikini / lingerie but the cleverest women (IMHO) saves that for our imaginations and if we are lucky ....

[ambach123]

Can someone look at the following and advise which of them if any.

http://www.uarent.com/list-en.php

http://www.stay.in.ua/en/apartments/apartments2.php

Thanks

[Ooooops]

I like this one - http://www.uarent.com/apartments-en.php?id=1   Cool place for entertainment - first you get them drunk and them shove them into jacuzzi        Plus, it's very close to Khreschatik and Maidan.

Prices went down from 3 years ago...   Good to know that...

[SANDRO43]

The RWDpedia has a section on "Learning Russian": http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Learn_Russian.

(additional contributions are always welcome )

[GreginGa]

I like this one - http://www.uarent.com/apartments-en.php?id=1   Cool place for entertainment - first you get them drunk and them shove them into jacuzzi        Plus, it's very close to Khreschatik and Maidan.

Prices went down from 3 years ago...   Good to know that...

Not bad at all and it beats the heck out of an old hotel room. I like a balcony,did it have a balcony? So what would that be in dollars about $110 a night?

[Ooooops]

The RWDpedia has a section on "Learning Russian":

That is nice, but don't you think that one-on-one (or two, or three, or more  ) lessons are much more productive than reading manuals?   

[msmoby_ru]

Can someone look at the following and advise which of them if any.

http://www.uarent.com/list-en.php

http://www.stay.in.ua/en/apartments/apartments2.php

Thanks

Poor old ambach is now being convinced he should rent an apartment .. Are you guys SURE about this? We all know ambach is used to a concierge at the front of the building to vet guests... There are some nice apartments to rent but ( and let's be honest) to get to these "palaces" most communual areas are going to be a BIG shock to him.


Seriously, I'm not sure it is wise to remove him from his "comfort" zone of the hotel for the first visit...and I think his choice of hotel is too far from the action..


Anyway - here's the lastest link to a pdfs of apartment rental companies - Most will accept payment for one night up front  and or cash on arrival at the apartment.  

http://www.kyivpost.com/real_estate - latest ads are only one day old..

Really, guys, the way ambach is lurching as he receives advice, and what he has said before. *I* think his first trip SHOULD be starting off in a hotel... IF he meets a good lady she will help him find an apartment next time... or he may feel confident enough to go for it.

[GreginGa]

Gator, I REALLY don't think amabach's style is going to be O'Brien's.... probably because

1/ I like it - the atmosphere - on a live music night - I've had some some great biz meetings there
2/ it gets INCREDIBLY smoky, and if your're eating there are far better places where the air is cleaner
3/ I visualise ambach in his dark suit and tie - NAW.. don't see it myself..

I THINK you mean a local sim card - that will work in a cell phone - he needs to check his cell phone(s) will work on Euro GSM/ 3G frequencies.. Buying a sim - Maiden Square - and opp on the main shopping street - lots of choices - but *I'd* go into dedicated  Kyiv Star shop - find someone speaking good English - and get a prepaid sim - and get them to fit it and TEST it.


Only have one experience of dating a woman who posted a shot of herself in a bikini on a dating site - ( never did meet a woman via an agency) - it was deliberately blurred - but you got the idea. She was a 10 and knew it, spoke good English, had her own business, money, apartment , able to travel abroad,  car, young child, VERY intelligent - but a little lacking in  common sense. She got sent lots of photos from men who thought she'd be impressed with them wearing even less ..After four years trying, she was still "on the market" a year ago.. and was still posting THAT photo and was suddenly five years younger ..

She wasn't "desparate", five years ago - when she posted THAT photo, but may be now... very sad...

Let's be honest guys, we WANT to know how good our lady might look in bikini / lingerie but the cleverest women (IMHO) saves that for our imaginations and if we are lucky ....

You're absolutely right about Obriens. I do like the place but it can get very smokey. I was there for the 2006 St Patty's day party. As a matter of fact my picture is still on their website from 2006. I think it's #6 and I'm wearing a Notre Dame shirt standing mith my friend from Tallinn. He went with me on my 3rd trip to Kiev back in 2002 to meet my current wife. I told him that if Katy and I  ever got married I would bring him back to Kiev so he could have the good time. I also kinda like Golden Gate pub although the food is a little more expensive. The Dublin breakfast is great at Obriens but who wants to pay $18 everyday for breakfast.

[Ooooops]

Seriously, I'm not sure it is wise to remove him from his "comfort" zone of the hotel for the first visit...and I think his choice of hotel is too far from the action..

Actually, I agree with you.   Staying in hotel with helpful stuff in the foreign country makes life much easier. 

[GreginGa]

We all know that most hotels in Ukraine are sub-par as to what one might expect with their particular star rating. I dont think the concierge is going to be at his beck and call and cater to his every whim like one would here in the states. At least thats been our experiences. I thought about the taking out of his element aspect of it and I still think he will be better served in an apartment. Who knows he might actually meet a lady that might want to prepare him dinner or whatever. He washes his clothes,he hangs them to dry. He makes tea or coffee or shots of vodka or whatever in his own place. I just dont want him to leave and say "I wish I'd stayed in a apartment" I dont think he'll say I wish I'd stayed in a hotel. Ambach123 is going to be dating so many women he's going to need some other entertainment suggestions. Like Mrs ooooops said that hot tub looked nice. Not one but 2 ladies and a big bottle of coconut rum,pineapple juice. Ambach's going to have stories to tell.

[ambach123]

Hot tub with two women and pinea colada, sounds delicious.

However I am looking for a wife and mother of my children, I am not sure if that is the right approach.

Look at the agency link www.InterDating.ua ; these girls worry me.

[topofthekey]

Hot tub with two women and pinea colada, sounds delicious.

However I am looking for a wife and mother of my children, I am not sure if that is the right approach.

Look at the agency link www.InterDating.ua ; these girls worry me.

hopefully you can find a "potiental" mother of those kids that also enjoys hot tubs 

I went to that website and i can't imagine many people paying $75 just to wait 10 days to find out if the woman is interested. but then again i wouldn't write any letters myself- if i was going to use an agency i think id only pay by the introduction.

i know not to put to much stock in pictures Nataliya, 0823 looks great- tall with dark hair- ya just cant beat that.

i don't like how they operate though.

[Gtex]

You are making progress!  Like many at the beginning of this thread, I also pointed out some obvious errors in your initial thinking, I was very hard on you.  You were defensive; an attitude always counterproductive to learning.   Happily, you have persisted and your learning curve is finally reflecting an upswing.   It is not necessary for you to be contrite, most  wish you well and success.  It will be pleasant for this group if you further distance yourself from some of your early attitudes that would reflect poorly on all of us.  

Advice is no substitute for on the ground experience.  As far as you have come already will seem as less than a single step compared to your view upon return.   Advice also carries the bias of the giver.  You spoke of Jack Bragg and his thoughts.  He has helped many here, he has also had many conflicts.  Like any good salesman, he has his view of what is right.  He is not very flexible or open to other suggestions (generally).   Even if you WOVO and it worked and you married and were happy ever after; Jack would still argue "How can you know for sure if you did not meet other women."  Jack, forgive me if I am not representing your opinion fairly (IMHO I am).  But, know if you contact him for help, he will honestly and fairly do all he can as he sees it, no one will dispute that, no one would do more.    

I stayed after you and have followed this hoping it would develop as it has.  My hope is that it (your efforts) will continue to improve and reach a good end.  Not everyone will be so kind.    Member "Ooooops" has been on both sides, first advising an apartment and then a hotel.   The first advice was facetious, the second disingenuous.  Similarly, her comment on the RWDpedia is not well informed; it is an excellent place to start language familiarity before "one-on-one lessons."  You would (again IMHO) be ill advised to rely on her for direction, I fear she wishes you no good outcome.   In the same way you will have to be careful about all you see, hear, and are told.  And that includes those who are really trying to help and not just those who would confuse and frustrate.

Keep listening, keep reading, your learning...

One more thing, worries about flesh shown in pictures and other cultural differences will be better understood after the trip.  Do not sweat the details or you will require all the room for self doubt already claimed by Myriddin.  And now, look how good he is doing... or at least that is what we think until he finishes that trip report!

[Ooooops]

Not everyone will be so kind.    Member "Ooooops" has been on both sides, first advising an apartment and then a hotel.   The first advice was facetious, the second disingenuous.  Similarly, her comment on the RWDpedia is not well informed; it is an excellent place to start language familiarity before "one-on-one lessons."  You would (again IMHO) be ill advised to rely on her for direction, I fear she wishes you no good outcome.

Wow, ain't you a vindictive one.      Relax, I don't care what you think about me, so you can save your breath (and limited writing  abilities    )

[Gtex]

Ooooops,
That was not vindictive.  What I think of you is not in question.  I am merely trying to correct the bad advice you gave and the trouble you seemingly wish to create. 
I gladly welcome constructive criticism, in what manner does my typing offend, or is found deficient?
I believe you would benefit from a review of TOS and advice on civil discourse.

PS: the definition of vindictive is in most cases based on revenge; you have done nothing to hurt me (just sometimes offensive), no apology necessary.  As stated above, just trying to keep us on track here...

[ambach123]

Back to the topic.

I will explain how this agency works, and probably others as well for " private consulting ".

They assign you an agent; you create a profile and select the women from their website. The agent supposedly personally contacts the women and finds out if she is interested in a meeting. The first meeting takes place in their offices. The agent orchestrates it. They arrange for 10 - 15 or more meetings.

The part I liked was that even though it is a blind date, both of us know something about each other and have agreed to meet.

The ratio of desire to meet to my selection was about 50%; half declined to meet. Many showing a lot of skin, I did not select them to begin with.

Considering some other things that were included in their package, I thought the cost of $750 was a fair one.

I also have additional women to meet that I found on my own.

[Ooooops]

PS: the definition of vindictive is in most cases based on revenge

Well, I told you to stop writing me those offensive Private Messages (in a bit ruder words) .   May be it triggered the revenge on your side?   

[Ooooops]

They arrange for 10 - 15 or more meetings.

With the same girl or a different one? 

[ambach123]

Different girls.

The second meetings are on us with mutual consent.

[Gtex]

Ooooops;

Careful, now you are accusing me of sending you offensive private messages.  In my opinion, that is a complete falsehood.  You have my permission to show the letters (only complete) here or in another thread so anyone may judge.  I was taking you to task for rude comments you made.  You apologized to Dan for those very same comments but continued being rude to me.

I asked you not to reply if you only wished to continue being rude, your reply was:

"Then stop sending PMs to me, it's that easy." These are your exact words and I do not consider them rude.

I complied.  I also informed Dan of what happened and while I wished to not further waste the general boards time with this issue, I will not sit by quietly and let rudeness or bad advice stand.   

So, I await your apology, or showing my letters here (in another thread) so others may judge.  You have made a serious accusation, defend or retract.

Ambach, sorry for the distraction!

[Ooooops]

You have my permission to show the letters (only complete) here or in another thread so anyone may judge. 

As you wish (sorry for the off-top, Ambach123)

o:
Please read my entry carefully before responding next time.   I stated (clearly) I was neither bad father or granddad.  I took offense because you were rude to imply all men here are of that category.  That is why Admin also followed my comment (IMHO).
I realize English may not be your native language and you do well considering that.  Still, your comments are often insensitive, abrasive and actually obnoxious.  I try to be much more careful (apparently) than you, that is why this is a personal message.   I can also be rude, but it is usually intentional.  Were you trying to be rude to the general membership?  If so, why are you here?
Not all the people here are always polite, your message will be better received if you are...
jg
It is not necessary to respond, only please change behavior. jg

o:
You are parsing you words more carefully now and that (at least) is an improvement.

"My opinion hasn't changed - girls are pro-choice and guys are pro life (well, most of them here   ).   Now I have a question to these guys - how often do you see you children from the previous marriage?  How do you participate in their life?   Oh, may be I'm barking up the wrong tree... most of your children already have grandchildren, right?"

Come now, those are your words and they are generally insulting to the men here, regardless of how they feel about abortion.

The substance of my comment remains unchanged and correct; perhaps most rather than all is more precise.  BUT, that is not the substance of the issue.  The point is you were rude and this reply furthers my belief and the correctness of my previous statement.

And, how can you possibly call my comprehension into question when you still have not corrected your misunderstanding of my statement?  After I stated I was not these things, you again questioned it in the thread.  Reread this stuff before wasting both our times with nonsensical replies (Please).

If you wish to answer again, at least address the issues I am talking about.  Although, I would prefer nothing if it will only be more of this...