How do you know if you have chemistry?

[Bruce]

I figure I'd start this thread to help at least one guy out there recognize when a girl really likes him or not.   Now, as far as I am concerned this really is dating 101, which most of you guys learned during your youth.   However, the nature of foreign romance, long distances, jet lag, short time frames etc. does tend to sometimes make a guy think to himself that things may be different this time..........

So, I'll just list a number of things that I believe marriage material girls would do if they really like you (I am hoping others can fill in the blanks / expand on my start):

A.  Prior to meeting, if you write letters, gives you insight that proves she is real as well as her real address (providing it is not with one of the legitimate agencies that funnel the address only through their service to "protect both of you.") and phone number. 

B.  Real interest in you when you call prior to meeting

When you meet it is a whole new ball game, so in most ways you are starting from scratch.

So, if there is chemistry she:

1.  Shows you honest attention with a smile on her face.  She may laugh.  She'll twirl or toss her hair.   She'll show "open" body language to you. 

2.  Does her best to meet you on time.   Dresses "to the 9's" as much as she possibly can.

3.  Gives you as much time as she possibly can.

4.  If it is through an agency she will contact the agency to make sure she could go out with you again, ask when is XXXX going to meet me again.

5.   Does not mind physical contact at appropriate time intervals to start with - sorry, every girl is a bit different when they expect the first hand holding / kiss / fondling / sex etc.  If a girl knows you are meeting alot of different women on a particular trip she may make you come back "just to see her" before sex takes place.  She may or may not either make it easy for you to "move" sexually or make you initiate everything yourself.  Sex is a personal thing between two consenting adults.   If she is really into you and you are so slow sexually she will pretty much telegraph to you that it is time to initiate  ie. wake up!  Very often she'll back off assuming you are not into her if you can not take the hint.  Be careful, a girl may push sex quickly or initiate sex to get you to "like" her.   That could be dangerous.  My advice is for you to always be in control.   You have heard it many times - but remember to be the man.

6.  Wants you to meet her family.

7.  Hangs on your every word. 

Remember - if a RW likes you, you'll know it.   I just hope you guys do not break too many hearts and save the sex for girls with real potential. 

[Michelangelo]

So, if there is chemistry she:


2.  Does her best to meet you on time.   Dresses "to the 9's" as much as she possibly can.

I agee with most of what you wrote, Bruce.  But the girls I did not have chemisty with were sometimes on time.  The ones I had chemistry with were ALLWAYS late. I think it is a girl thing and expecially a FSU girl thing

But seriously, you can tell if a girl is "into" you and you have chemisty with her within 10 minutes of meeting her.  You just feel it and her body language signals it, as Bruce has written.

I remember meeting a girl, Dasha, in Zhitomir.  We had written every day for 4 months.  She was the prettest girl (amazing body and face and hair and eyes and lips) I had ever been with and was a 10!  We were also a great match in the letters we had shared.

I was to spend a week with her.  But after the second day, while setting at a booth beside her in a cafe and admiring her body, I told her what we both knew--we had zero chemistry together.  I walked away and had a good time that week dating interesting girls from the agency and one I met at a disco.

But what if you have chemistry? 

Chemistry alone is not enough.  You can have this initial attraction with a girl and still not be a good couple. 

The challenging part comes next, as you get to know the real person...

[Shadow]

Nice post Bruce.

I think point 6 needs some elaboration. For those who are out of the dating process for some time, and for those who are 'taking the lead''.

Often men are taking the lead in initiating physical contact. They grab a womans hand to lead her, kiss her and hold her close. This is the time when it is important to understand body language.

A woman who is undecided about you will allow you to kiss her, hold her hand and sometimes have sex with you. However at this time it will be the man who will initiate activity and do all the 'work'. Many man mistake this for behaviour of a woman being in love. Here lies the danger of relationships going downhill and leading to crash.

If a woman likes you and is falling in love with you, she will let you know by her actions. Not only will she let you hold her hand, she will automatically hold on to you whenever she can. If you walk, she will hold your arm or hand. If you sit, she will be near you. It will be two-way traffic.

Whenever you have the feeling traffic is only going one way, beware. No matter what she will tell you about 'cultural differences'.

Chemistry is something that when is right can lead to love and everything that goes with it. When it is absent there is nothing that will change it.

And finally the 'L' word. The women I met in the FSU were very careful in using this word. They would not say it because of the mood or if they did not mean it. If you tell you love a RW, be sure you mean it. And if she does not tell you the same, beware.

 

[Bruce]

Michael, Shadow - appreciate the additions / corrections.  Michael you are so right in that just because they do or do not show up on time and are attentive means they necessarily do or do not have chemistry with you.  Its just my experience that when girls have been into me, they make their best effort to impress etc.  Shadow - so right on everything you posted.  Like I said earlier, you guys will bring out alot of important things to help other guys I did not mention on the initial post.  I think we'll see alot more when some of the more prolific writers get a hold of this thread.  When to meet the family?  Prior to or after the engagement.  It varies.  Guys living there can take their time and meet the whole family prior to commitment.  I believe most girls who meet guys through agencies / guys over for short periods of time at a pop will meet the relatives after the K-1 commitment.    One other thing........as far as I am concerned if a girl does not give you a big hug and gives you the side of the cheek to kiss surely by the third date...............she is not into you ie. next!

[Michelangelo]

And finally the 'L' word. The women I met in the FSU were very careful in using this word. They would not say it because of the mood or if they did not mean it. If you tell you love a RW, be sure you mean it. And if she does not tell you the same, beware.

 

My first Russian girlfriend, who I dated for a year and a half and took 5 trips with, told me for her to say to me  "I like you a lot" had the same meaning for an American telling his girl that "I love you."   I appreciated her honesty.

[jb]

This is a great thread, Bruce. And a great follow-up example posted by Michael.  

It's been so long ago, but I don't think my wife and I spoke the "L" word until about the third or fourth time we were together.  We verbally danced around the issue for quite awhile, although we both well knew it was a done deal.  It was during a week long vacation we spent at the resort at Voronova that we got down to brass tacks and owned up to our feeling for each other.

Ah,,, Voronova~!   Now there's a romantic spot for all you would be Casanova's.  An 18th Century castle built by the General and Count, Sheremetyevo (same man they named the Moscow airport after) during Katherine the Great's reign, now converted to a health spa and resort.  I recommend it to anyone spending time with a woman from the Moscow region.  It was in a gazebo on one of the bridle paths where Russian nobleman, during the Czarist times, used to canter their horses, or walk their Russian noble ladies, where I proposed marrige to my bride.

A fantastic, and historical place.  Very significant to Russia women.

P.S. I get the feeling that a lot of men have forgotten, or perhaps never knew, how to properly court and woo a woman.  So much of what I see written here is much too businesslike.  A few e-mails, a brief meeting, and a wham-bam proposal.  No romance at all.    If you want your FSU woman to really fall in love with you, your going to have to make an effort.  Take her to romantic places, spend time with her, and make her feel so special she'll never forget those ever-so-special moments in the courtship. But,,, you can't do it properly in a week.

You will reap what you sow.

[Elen]

And I think if you YOURSEVES feel that chemistry you would picture all those 7 paragraphs in your minds even if there is no one of them in reality And if you try to analyze if there is 1,2,....100 then it means  there is big doubt about your own "chemistry"

[jb]

Elen, nice to see you here.

How do you feel about the need to put romance into the equation?  Do you think a man and woman can get this done in a week with only a few e-mails between them?

What are your thoughts about the "one week wonder" stories we read here?  Is it possible to experience "Chemistry" in such a short time?

[Bruce]

Elen, correct me if I am wrong............but what I think you are saying is that if a guy has to think about if there is or is not chemistry there probably is not chemistry?   I think what you are advocating is love at first sight, which is more probably mutual lust. 

 

[KenC]

As we have found out in the other thread, chemistry means different things to different people.  If we are addressing the issue of if the RW is "in to you" or not, it could mean one thing and if it is if the RW wants to have sex with you, it can be a very different thing.  For the sake of clarity, I will assume that we are speaking of "being into you" and not just sex.

On this point, I will say that this is where guys with limited dating skills or experience are at a huge disadvantage.  They will lack the necessary skills to differenciate between fake attention and real interest.  To some of the lesser experienced, just the fact that the girl accepted a date is sometimes enough.

The idea that "cultural differences" plays a major role here is bunk.  People are people and they will show their true feelings if one knows how to spot them.  RW may tend to be a little bit more descrete in public, but that is about all the difference I have seen.  What I do see is that there are many a guy that chalks up the lack of attention/interest/chemistry to cultural differences when there are none.  I also see where many a guy forces the chemistry to be right because he has invested too much time, effort and money to just walk away.

KenC

[KenC]

Elen, correct me if I am wrong............but what I think you are saying is that if a guy has to think about if there is or is not chemistry there probably is not chemistry?   I think what you are advocating is love at first sight, which is more probably mutual lust. 

 

Bruce,

I don't think that is what Elen is saying at all.  I think she is saying that if you have to analyze if there is chemistry, you probably don't have it.  And I agree with that line of thinking too.  It goes to the thinking that if a RW is into you, you will know.  There will be no doubt.

This may happen immediately or grow over some time. 

KenC

[Elen]

I think what you are advocating is love at first sight, which is more probably mutual lust. 

Ah I don't know myself what I'm advocating here:D I just feel it's impossible to analyze item after item if you already feel that "chemistry" by yourself. Though may be it's pure female inability to act such resonable

PS in my mind lust is connect mostly with sex and I do "adavocate" something another

And actually in Russian there is no such conception like "chemistry" - there is only love and lust. And may be I'm advocating the idea - that love is blind. Something like  Любовь зла - полюбишь и козла

 

Let better say me what girls should "see" if YOU feel that said "chemistry"

 

[Bruce]

Ken, agreed.   There I go putting my foot in my keyboard mouth again..................Elen you are off the hook.

[KenC]

Elen,

How about the idea of two people being soulmates?  Might that be a Russian equivilant?

KenC

[Elen]

.Nope I meant another that Ken C said :? I put under doubt YOURS but not GIRLS" feelings

[Elen]

soulmates?? Well  you see THAT is not translated into Russian too

Try again with one more variation

[jb]

Ken,

I fully subscribe to the statement that if a RW is truly into in you, you will know it, without a doubt. In this regard the good FSU women are pretty transparent and very readable creatures.  Beware, however, of the consumate actresses. In some of our more famous crash and burn stories, ie., Shane Neff, and even our own Maxx,,, men can be easily fooled.

There is that built in "honesty" when Russian women are sincere. They don't bother to hide their true feelings, while they are not simple women, they don't bother being complex when it comes to relationships, they don't play games.  But I don't think "chemistry" and "interest" are quite the same thing.  I think a lot of times men mistake curiosity for interest. I believe Photoguy is a prime example of this. (sorry, photoguy, for showcasing your trip)  His g/f, Larissa, was curious about him, but on meeting him, she was maybe not physically/chemically attracted, thus he never got a kiss.  She and her translator girl friend got a weeks worth of vacation in Kiev on his dime, and he got the pleasure of her company, and very little more.  Had she felt real chemistry in the meeting, she'd have been all over him like a cheap suit by the third day.

Frankly, I've had waitresses in cafes be more affectionate hoping for a bigger tip at the end of supper.  In my view, "chemistry" on first meeting is a poor yardstick to measure the potential of a relationship.

[Bruno]

soulmates?? Well  you see THAT is not translated into Russian too

Try again with one more variation

 

soulmate : задушевный друг ???

[Elen]

psssss Bruno You may be задушевным другом for centures!!! And задушевный друг  rare proceeds into husband or a lover:D

THere is of course some analog like суженный but it SUCH old word that I wonder why we don't have more modern analog:?

[jb]

deleted

[anono]

elen, it's great to see you contributing to the board.

addressing the thread in general, i agree with kenc, jb, bruce..everyone!

chemistry, interest...  i know i have "felt" chemistry before as well as interest. i think i can "sense" it or see it in their eyes if there is chemistry. of course, this does not mean its a good match, it just means there is physical attraction and possibly more.

i also agree if she is "into you" you will know and there will be no doubt. i also agree with jb about photoguy and larisa. i have not said much since the last infamous flamefest regarding this, as at least photo is going back and maybe he will see things more clearly this time. who knows? maybe even larisa will come around. we have not forgotten photo's first TR before it was edited or deleted and replaced by the revisionist wish fullfillment version that is up now. if you have to ask others if your lady is into you, she isn't. you will know. it is pretty simple when it comes to that with U/RW.

i have seen women ask to bring a friend on a date. i have seen women say they need to bring "their" interpreter with them, even if you have a terp of your own. have you ever taken an AW out along with her friend?? it has come to the point that the contempt some ladies have for some AM, it is palpable and fully apparent, almost insulting to your intelligence.

so many women, so many men without a clue...

[Elen]

it's better to understand what chemistry is when there is NO chemistry.

He is fine, he is smart, he is handsome, he is and "ideal" in all meanings. You try hard to convince yourself you will be happy with him and never find a man better than he and ....... you just feel sick about him for no one reason:(

[KenC]

jb wrote:

 But I don't think "chemistry" and "interest" are quite the same thing. I think a lot of times men mistake curiosity for interest.

You are probably correct.  My statement was too over reaching.  It is a very good point about curiosity too.  I think there might be a general confusion amongst the guys too.  What girl wouldn't want to go out to the best restaurant? the best disco?  Moscow?  Kiev? all for free and most times without any expectations?  Keeping in mind that most of the gals in question have very limited budgets too.  And let us not forget the idea of just interacting with a foriegn man from America.  Curiosity could be a big motivator.

KenC

[jb]

Ken,

My point exactly.

[KenC]

My wife was a member of an agency even though she had no intentions of marrying an American.  She was pretty up front with the guys, but they still tried their best to convince her otherwise.  She would never accept gifts from anyone. (Her way of thinking is that when you accept any gift, there is a debt to repay and she didn't want to ever have to pay)   Her motivation to be a member of the agency was curiosity and to practice her English skills.

The advice she got from the translators and office staff would make your hair stand on end.  (And this was a "good" agency)  Once after we stopped into the office after a day trip to Moscow, I was suprised by the overwhelming attention Lena got from the office staff.  She kind of blew me off when I asked what all the comotion was about.  Later she said that they were quizzing her down as to what gifts she got from me in Moscow.  They even gave her some sheet when they learned she didn't ask for or receive any gifts.  In my wife's estimation, she guessed that as little as 10-15% of the girls were sincerely looking for love.

KenC