No crime in Soviet Union?

[roykirk]

I was browsing the Tomsk section of my Lonely Planet Guide for Russia, and I came across this interesting quote in a boxed section about whether times were better under Soviet Russia or now:

Even the relative "winners" in today's new Russia aren't always happy.  Smart and multi-lingual, Sasha is a young professional working for a Western multinational in a booming Siberian city.  Financially he's doing very well.  Yet over burritos and a second Stella Artois he confesses that he'd happily bring back the KGB.  "Sure there were certain things you couldn't say, but there was no crime whatsoever, no poverty, no begging, no homelessness.  If you could have a world like that, wouldn't you want it?"

I found this surprising, but I never visited Russia during Soviet times.  For those that did, or for those that lived there during that time, is this statement accurate?  I find it hard to believe that there was no crime at all...that it was this perfect utopia where there were no social ills.  I'm thinking this person is maybe going off of something he was told by his parents, but probably didn't have a lot, if any, experience firsthand.  But again, I wasn't there, so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this.

[msmoby_ru]

I was browsing the Tomsk section of my Lonely Planet Guide for Russia, and I came across this interesting quote in a boxed section about whether times were better under Soviet Russia or now:

Even the relative "winners" in today's new Russia aren't always happy.  Smart and multi-lingual, Sasha is a young professional working for a Western multinational in a booming Siberian city.  Financially he's doing very well.  Yet over burritos and a second Stella Artois he confesses that he'd happily bring back the KGB.  "Sure there were certain things you couldn't say, but there was no crime whatsoever, no poverty, no begging, no homelessness.  If you could have a world like that, wouldn't you want it?"

I found this surprising, but I never visited Russia during Soviet times.  For those that did, or for those that lived there during that time, is this statement accurate?  I find it hard to believe that there was no crime at all...that it was this perfect utopia where there were no social ills.  I'm thinking this person is maybe going off of something he was told by his parents, but probably didn't have a lot, if any, experience firsthand.  But again, I wasn't there, so I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this.

The Crimes were just different - wasteful, badly planned and implimented collective farming- corrupt officials - you couldn't have a different idealogical viewpoint - or you were a subversive "influence"...   I have Russian speaking friends who talk like this - I just ask - "would be be talking like this now,- in a foreign country-  if we still had the old times?"

[Ooooops]

What's KGB has to do with crime prevention, let alone begging and homelessness?       KGB was looking for the enemies of the State, not some petty criminals.    Sasha must be too young to know that.   

As for life being peachy dory during USSR time - it's a lie as well.   There were homeless, beggars, prostitutes etc, but they were "swept under the rug" and sent to some godforsaken places, so they don't ruin statistics in the cities.   

[I/O]

Of course mafia based groups only developed after the influences of the evil west were allowed in some 20 years ago......................it was just so perfect prior to then. Begs the question, why were the inside of the borders guarded so well, nobody would have wanted out.............right?

I/O

[Shadow]

I guess some will never leave the distorted view that some things introduced locally under the reign of Stalin were common practices throughout the whole USSR until the last days.... 

Of course there was crime, however as people were given a home, food and a job (well a place to look as if they work) by the State, the actual amount of crime for money or drugs should have been less as in current days. With a lower amount of worries, people usually do less crime.

As far as 'different crimes' I hope that nobody will turn this against the poster. Project the things you posted on to modern day society, both in Russia and in your own country. Nothing changed, huh ?

[roykirk]

What's KGB has to do with crime prevention, let alone begging and homelessness?       KGB was looking for the enemies of the State, not some petty criminals.    Sasha must be too young to know that.   

As for life being peachy dory during USSR time - it's a lie as well.   There were homeless, beggars, prostitutes etc, but they were "swept under the rug" and sent to some godforsaken places, so they don't ruin statistics in the cities.   

This is my impression as well, especially after reading Russian history books (i.e. the kind written by Russian scholars/not Western).

[roykirk]

Of course mafia based groups only developed after the influences of the evil west were allowed in some 20 years ago......................it was just so perfect prior to then. Begs the question, why were the inside of the borders guarded so well, nobody would have wanted out.............right?

I/O

Excellent point.  I've always thought that you can gauge how good or bad a country/government is by looking at whether people are trying to get in or get out (and also by the efforts to keep them in). 

[groovlstk]

Even the relative "winners" in today's new Russia aren't always happy.  Smart and multi-lingual, Sasha is a young professional working for a Western multinational in a booming Siberian city.  Financially he's doing very well.  Yet over burritos and a second Stella Artois he confesses that he'd happily bring back the KGB.  "Sure there were certain things you couldn't say, but there was no crime whatsoever, no poverty, no begging, no homelessness.  If you could have a world like that, wouldn't you want it?"

If any of you have worked with journalists, particularly travel writers who are mostly all freelancers, you'd probably guess, like me, that the quote above was entirely fabricated.

Look how the writer sets the stage for an interesting paradox - young, new Russian eating Mexican food and drinking Belgian beer, enjoying Western amenities but waxing nostalgic for a time that (if he in fact existed) he probably doesn't even remember. Yet of course the writer has him trot out a line about the KGB because even the most clueless American immediately identifies it with the worst aspects of the Soviet Union.

The writer gets a B for creating an interesting if cliched paradox but this has BS written all over it. One of the reasons why writers like the one above can be lazy and irresponsible is that it would be impossible for his/her editors to verify the quote - Sasha the multilingual, burrito-eating Russian is about as real as the tooth fairy.

[roykirk]

The writer gets a B for creating an interesting if cliched paradox but this has BS written all over it. One of the reasons why writers like the one above can be lazy and irresponsible is that it would be impossible for his/her editors to verify the quote - Sasha the multilingual, burrito-eating Russian is about as real as the tooth fairy.

 

Good observation!  Although msmoby did note that they knew Russians who spoke like this. 

[myrddin]

I was in the USSR once, in 1990.  I spent a few days in Washington D.C. first.  In D.C. I saw scores of homeless people, and I was virtually assaulted by two of them.  In several weeks in Moscow, I saw three, all hiding in metro tunnels and none saying a word. I suppose some might say that it showed one system was better (not me, it's just anecdotal anyway, and I suspect the ones I saw were hiding for good reason).

Luckily I didn't experience crime directly in either place, but suggesting any society of significant size has "no crime" is ludicrous.  Some might say the KGB literally took a lot of crime into their own hands. 

Groovlstk is probably right about that quote being fabricated, though I am sure there are some people who really do look back with nostalgia on those days.  (I'd guess most of them were highly placed in that power structure or else never "stepped out of line", not even accidentally....)

[groovlstk]

Good observation!  Although msmoby did note that they knew Russians who spoke like this. 

Yes, there are quite a few people who think such, and with good reason. But I've never met one who was young and wealthy and spoke about such things while eating western food.

[Swisskid]

I too encountered a young person in Ukraine making a similar statement.

I was on a date in Mariupol in May 2008 at a lovely seaside cafe with a beautiful 26-year old lawyer and a very nice looking interpreter of approx. 24-years old.  In the middle of our very pleasant conversation we were having over my Stella Artois, the terp just blurted out her opinion about how things were so much better in "the old days". 

She was too young to even remember the "old days" and I was tempted to confront her with facts about Stalins' mass murders, etc. but I just let it drop as it would have ruined the pleasant conversation I was having with my date.

I was very surprised though that this type of "nostalgia" for the Soviet communist period is prevalent in more than a few of the FSU young people today. 

[SANDRO43]

I was very surprised though that this type of "nostalgia" for the Soviet communist period is prevalent in more than a few of the FSU young people today.

Nostalgia for old times is usually the result of two factors:

- Dissatisfaction with current times
- Recollection (personal or reported) of better earlier times

This in the case of young people, while for old fogeys like me old times are always better, simply because I was younger then .

[TwoBitBandit]

The change from communism to capitalism has been much better for young people who have the time to adapt to it.

If you were a 50-year-old front-line factory worker in 1991, and your factory was shut down because its goods weren't competitive in the world economy, you really have no useful skills.

I've met a handful of older people who talk about how much better communisim was.  I remember one taxi driver who drove me from Volgograd to Volsky (about a 30-minute ride) who gave me a 20-minute lecture on how much better his life was under communism.

Anytime a system changes there are winners and losers.  If you move from a system that sucks (like communism) to a better system (like capitalism), there may be more winners than losers.  There's always losers, however.

[Blues Fairy]

But I've never met one who was young and wealthy and spoke about such things while eating western food.

You'd be surprised how many brainwashed idiots can be found even among the young, educated and successful Russians.  Lies and propaganda on TV plus laziness of minds unable to analyze and search for objective information - and there you have thousands of such Sashas eating western food and demagogizing about the Great Russia and its true place in this world.  The Soviet Union thus becomes a symbol of distant past, when government was strong and Russia powerful and there was no crime, and rivers of milk and honey flowed across the fields.  Come on, this **** fills even the recently edited Russian history textbooks. 

[myrddin]

You'd be surprised how many brainwashed idiots can be found even among the young, educated and successful Russians.  Lies and propaganda on TV plus laziness of minds unable to analyze and search for objective information - and there you have thousands of such Sashas eating western food and demagogizing about the Great Russia and its true place in this world.  The Soviet Union thus becomes a symbol of distant past, when government was strong and Russia powerful and there was no crime, and rivers of milk and honey flowed across the fields.  Come on, this **** fills even the recently edited Russian history textbooks. 

 
You know  , sometimes I get kinda tired of how Blues Fairy couches her thoughts in inferences and euphemisms! 

 
(Straightforwardness is just one of the qualities I think is more common in FSUW than AW, and one of the things that drew me there. )

[msmoby_ru]

You know  , sometimes I get kinda tired of how Blues Fairy couches her thoughts in inferences and euphemisms! 

 
(Straightforwardness is just one of the qualities I think is more common in FSUW than AW, and one of the things that drew me there. )

Hi Myrddin,

I'm perplexed - BF personifies straight forward for me ... where is the inference in her post .. ?

[myrddin]

Hi Myrddin,

I'm perplexed - BF personifies straight forward for me ... where is the inference in her post .. ?

It's a joke!  Guess I have to work on my ascii pseudo-sarcasm, smileys aren't enough!  I've never seen Blues Fairy use euphemisms of any kind, either.  Something about this post got to me enough to comment.   (Unless you're playing a jest on me by pretending not to understand, in which case well-played.    )

[msmoby_ru]

It's a joke!  Guess I have to work on my ascii pseudo-sarcasm, smileys aren't enough!  I've never seen Blues Fairy use a euphemism of any kind, either.  Something about this post got to me enough to comment.   (Unless you're playing a jest on me by pretending not to understand, in which case well-played.    )

   ( as in self-harm)

My race is "supposed" to define this art - the gene obviously passed me by .. DUH

[SANDRO43]

My race is "supposed" to define this art - the gene obviously passed me by .. DUH

You're 'loosing' your sense of humour along with your spelling and grammar ?

Mark, you're beginning to worry me, is your prolonged exposure to Cyprus's climate taking too heavy a toll ? Maybe you'll recover after your future return to your native ambience, I was in Nicosia (Lefkosia) in 1997 giving a course to a local bank's IT staff and the natives, though pleasant enough, did not strike me as outrageously witty (despite their having been under Britsh rule for some time, or maybe just because of that  ?).

[Gtex]

I believe India is seen as the triumph of British Colonialism.   Highs and lows around the world; it did also take well here.   BF is sometimes about as euphemistic as a brick in the face; not that such is a bad thing, I'm just sayin'...

[Blues Fairy]

BF is sometimes about as euphemistic as a brick in the face; not that such is a bad thing, I'm just sayin'...

I'm amazed how linguistically fastidious and stylistically sensitive RWD members have become! No doubt if only I took the trouble to learn from the esteemed native speakers here, I would enrich my vocabulary with many fine metaphors, daring hyperboles, sharp euphemisms, and all that other ****.    But alas, tongue has no bones, whereas fingers are another story, so I fear you'll have to continue suffering my in-your-face bluntness. 

[myrddin]

I'm amazed how linguistically fastidious and stylistically sensitive RWD members have become! No doubt if only I took the trouble to learn from the esteemed native speakers here, I would enrich my vocabulary with many fine metaphors, daring hyperboles, sharp euphemisms, and all that other ****.    But alas, tongue has no bones, whereas fingers are another story, so I fear you'll have to continue suffering my in-your-face bluntness. 

Good! 


(Though I do enjoy metaphors.  )

[SANDRO43]

I believe India is seen as the triumph of British Colonialism; ... it did also take well here.

So why did you kick them out on the flimsy excuse of the tea tax ? Look where it got you, almost no tea shoppes around, no old ladies shuffling around offices with their squeaky trolleys, etc. Sad, sic transit gloria Britanniae .

BF is sometimes about as euphemistic as a brick in the face;

She's too young . In my time, the IBM mantra was:

THINK

Now she wants to poke bony fingers into our faces  .

(Though I do enjoy metaphors).

Excellent, let's form the RWD chapter of the RSPCFG (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Figures of Speech) .

[Blues Fairy]

She's too young . In my time, the IBM mantra was:

THINK

Now she wants to poke bony fingers into our faces 

I suppose back then IBM was predominantly male, and they all had bones in their.......... tongues?