Income question

[2tallbill]

Bill I really disagree with you on this one.

The people who work two jobs ( husband and wife) do so because they HAVE to. These are your typical average middle income families trying to make ends meet. They have two cars because each goes into a separate direction for work. And they are rarely expensive. Usually if the children are small there is some type of day care and most moms whould prefer not to do this and stay home, but the salary is more than the day care and at the end of the week it is a net gain to the family income. Eating out does not occur that often and again, not in expensive resturants. Think along the lines of a pizzeria or diner. And if they are too tired to cook some days, it is only because they need to keep up with a schedule to afford thier needs and hopefully some of their wants. And lets not even think about the cost of medical care for children. You have no idea.

People with really good incomes such as yourself ( you have spent quite a bit in the hunt, yes?) would not ask a wife to help out financially. No need to and most women I have met would rather stay home with the kids or do some type of volunteer work as time is avilable.

In the 50's and 60's, the husband went to work and the wife stayed home. Now try to put a kid through college, save for retirement, put gas in the car, pay a mortgage, etc...on a "decent" salary of say $60-70-80K. Not an easy task. And more so in areas like the east or west coast. Let me know when you are married, with kids, with a house, and we can speak about this again.

Hmmmm......... I am divorced but during the last 5 years of my marriage my wife didn't work. I am a homeowner, I raised three boys (two are grown now and one is in Iraq) the other is a teenager and lives with me 100% of the time. I live in the San Francisco Bay area.

There was a time when my ex worked, and I remember the struggle during the early years. I don't think that there is nearly as much of a struggle for married couples in their 40s or 50s. If you are talking about young couples then I would agree with you.

The day that my ex quit her job instantly made me much more productive and I earned more and more money as a result.

[steviej]

apple47, thanks for the story about your house hunting. Sounds like you married quite a woman ! What's that old expression: (Olga or Sandro would know)

"There's a saying in Russian about woman - she can stop a horse on a run, and enter the house on fire  ... etc, etc ..."

[OlgaH]

"There's a saying in Russian about woman - she can stop a horse on a run, and enter the house on fire  ... etc, etc ..."

It is not a saying. It is from  the poem by Nikolai Nekrasov "Moroz (Frost)-the Red Nose" about a destiny of a strong, beautiful, hard working, family oriented, loving peasant Russian woman. 

[steviej]

It is not a saying. It is from  the poem by Nikolai Nekrasov "Moroz (Frost)-the Red Nose" about a destiny of a strong, beautiful, hard working, family oriented, loving Russian woman. 

Olga, that's so interesting, thanks! I didn't realize it is a whole poem. Now I need to find an English translation of it.

[Caddydaddy]

Hi all,

Frankly, I have no idea yet what RW think about our life in the West, just started to exchange letters with two from Siberia.
I only hope they are aware that an income here, no matter what level, is not a gift from heaven, nor governmental guaranteed, rather most people have to work for it. And talking about security in future, it probably could be good, but there are no guaranties either. Just a thought which comes in my mind, of course I always hope for the best 

Greetings
CaddyDaddy

[Col HJ]

I think more important than any expectations of income that your RW/UW might have is their perhaps having a skewed perception of what that income means here in the US. I will probably make 150K-180K this year and I live near Houston which has one of the lowest cost of living in the country. So in FSU terms I am rich right?? Even in the currently inflated economy in Ukraine it is still difficult to spend more than $30 in the market unless you are being extravagant with your purchases. And I have seen my girls electric and gas bills, which ranged from $12 to $27. Drinks (uh,quite a few) and dinner for six of us one night in a nice restaurant came to a whopping $80. Now if you are in Kiev or Moscow you can definitely spend to your hearts desire but most of the FSU and certainly small town Ukraine is not so. I would venture to say most Houston area residents spend more on gasoline each month than the average monthly income in Ukraine. So ultimately yes we do have more disposable income, but it is not the grossly disproportionate amount your prospective bride may think. Having said that I am highly in favor of the ideal that if your are serious about this venture that you be financially capable of giving her and any children an improved quality of life, and I think any woman is very justified in wanting this. I have never alluded to my income and my lady has never asked. We are mutually interested in a new home and a pretty red Mazda in the driveway and I have made no illusions as to the reality of this ideal, the car will appear when her driving skills are up to speed and we will shop for houses in a price range that won't leave me a slave to a huge mortgage, ideally very little to none.

Given the penalty of missing a week or more of work, airfare and associated cost of 5 trips,gifts,etc. over the last 12 months I have easily spent 30K. While I am not especially frugal I am certainly not a spendthrift either so in spite of any past rhetoric about spending this or that for dating locally vs. FSU, this IS an expensive endeavor.

[Ooooops]

You can buy a reliable used car, you don't need to pay others to watch your kids, you can cook at home delicious and nutritious meals, you can wash and iron your own clothing. You can watch your children grow and teach them your values. You can go camping instead a trip to Hawaii or Aspen.

You, you, you...   I know what I can and cannot do.  And what about yourself?   

[Misha]

You can buy a reliable used car, you don't need to pay others to watch your kids, you can cook at home delicious and nutritious meals, you can wash and iron your own clothing. You can watch your children grow and teach them your values. You can go camping instead a trip to Hawaii or Aspen.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

Bill, I agree with you here. How does it work: the moment you sign the papers and drive off the parking lot the car has already lost 30% of its value? Better to buy a good used vehicle and let someone else take the hit on the cost of depreciation.

My wife and I eat well and we maybe spend $50-$60 a week on food. We salt our own cabbage, make our own pelmeni and eat out as a treat or when on the road.

As for vacation time, we are heading off to the United States tomorrow. We bought a used pop-up trailer and will be staying in provincial/state parks. We will be buying food in grocery stores and cooking at the campground.

In the winter, we turn down the thermostat to 10 degrees celsius at night. It is cool, but my wife prefers to pile up the sheets and comforters and breathe in crisp air when sleeping.

[steviej]

My wife and I eat well and we maybe spend $50-$60 a week on food.

That seems impossible? Is that in the US?

[Misha]

That seems impossible? Is that in the US?

In Canada, where food tends to be more expensive. Here is an example. We made pelmeni. Cost: $10 or so in meat (ground pork and ground beef). Throw in an egg, two potatoes, a few carrots and some flour and the total cost would be around $15, maybe $20. With this, we made close to 600 pelmeni. This is enough for 30-or-so meals. This works out to 50 cents a meal each time we eat pelmeni. Salted cabbage: we buy cabbage in bulk: 50 pound bags/boxes. We salt this cabbage, which lasts us months. Cost of cabbage $15-$17 and a few dollars worth of carrots and a few more of salt. It is my wife that is teaching me how to be frugal, and I have never spent so little. When we splurge, we might spend $100 a week on food.

[steviej]

... It is my wife that is teaching me how to be frugal, and I have never spent so little ...

Man, that is amazing. When I was reading your post, just before the end, I was thinking, "Boy, that sure sounds like a Russian woman!" ... and then you mentioned your wife! 

[Ooooops]

Misha, eating pelmeni and kvashennaya kapusta every day gets boring pretty quick, don't you think?..

[Blues Fairy]

We've recently discovered that forests around Raleigh abound in edible mushrooms and decided to forage for some groceries in the city parks, provided we manage to escape the Ranger Maggot. 

But with my love for Starbucks and strawberries and my husband's love for steaks and Scotch, I doubt we can survive on less than $100/week...

[Ooooops]

We've recently discovered that forests around Raleigh abound in edible mushrooms and decided to forage for some groceries in the city parks, provided we manage to escape the Ranger Maggot. 

Last fall we went down to Oregon and met our Russian friends from San Francisco for a weekend of Chanterelle hunting.      Came home with two huge buckets of them.   Ate them till we puked...       And when we went to Alaska last summer we were constantly foraging on "podosinoviki" (don't know their name in English) and Boletus shrooms.   Mmmmmmm....  yammmmmy....   

[Shadow]

In Canada, where food tends to be more expensive. Here is an example. We made pelmeni. Cost: $10 or so in meat (ground pork and ground beef). Throw in an egg, two potatoes, a few carrots and some flour and the total cost would be around $15, maybe $20. With this, we made close to 600 pelmeni. This is enough for 30-or-so meals. This works out to 50 cents a meal each time we eat pelmeni. Salted cabbage: we buy cabbage in bulk: 50 pound bags/boxes. We salt this cabbage, which lasts us months. Cost of cabbage $15-$17 and a few dollars worth of carrots and a few more of salt. It is my wife that is teaching me how to be frugal, and I have never spent so little. When we splurge, we might spend $100 a week on food.

We don't have enough free time to make them. Instead we buy and spend $1 a meal. 

[possum]

Wow, people still eat pelmeni and salted cabbage?. I haven't had either of those in years, and I freakin' live in the land of Pelmeni & Kapusta.. Those foods are so 90's, because in the 90's most people were poor, many grew their own cabbage, and meat was relatively cheap..

[Caddydaddy]

OK, before we all have to go for mushrooms in the forests 

and a pretty red Mazda in the driveway

and GM has to sell out and closing plants...hum

CaddyDaddy

[msmoby_ru]

OK, before we all have to go for mushrooms in the forests  ;Dand GM has to sell out and closing plants...hum

CaddyDaddy

But don't Ford own 33%+ of Mazda? - or have they sold that off like Jaguar, Landrover, Aston Martin, etc.

[Shadow]

Wow, people still eat pelmeni and salted cabbage?. I haven't had either of those in years, and I freakin' live in the land of Pelmeni & Kapusta.. Those foods are so 90's, because in the 90's most people were poor, many grew their own cabbage, and meat was relatively cheap..

Well perhaps you can share the current popular Russian foods. 

[Ooooops]

Those foods are so 90's, because in the 90's most people were poor, many grew their own cabbage, and meat was relatively cheap..

You are joking, right?   

[possum]

Well perhaps you can share the current popular Russian foods. 

Chicken has gained in popularity over the last few year, at least where I live.. and I'm not talking about Bush's legs either, mostly breasts and frozen whole chickens.. Potato chips and small flavored rusks are hot along with all kinds of sausages and cheese.. Yogurt and various dairy products in pretty plastic bottles, too..  Oh, and then there are packaged salads and frozen vegetables.. pizza, sea foods, smoked fish, frozen mushrooms, salted peanuts, candy bars, packaged dry-cured fish, squid rings, and the list goes on and on and on...

[possum]

You are joking, right?   

Nope, no joke.. I lived through the 90's..

[Ooooops]

Nope, no joke.. I lived through the 90's..

And you are telling me that there was less food available in 90s then in 70s or all 80s?   

[possum]

And you are telling me that there was less food available in 90s then in 70s or all 80s?   

Of course not, why would I say such a thing?. I was comparing the 90's to the present day..

[Shadow]

Chicken has gained in popularity over the last few year, at least where I live.. and I'm not talking about Bush's legs either, mostly breasts and frozen whole chickens.. Potato chips and small flavored rusks are hot along with all kinds of sausages and cheese.. Yogurt and various dairy products in pretty plastic bottles, too..  Oh, and then there are packaged salads and frozen vegetables.. pizza, sea foods, smoked fish, frozen mushrooms, salted peanuts, candy bars, packaged dry-cured fish, squid rings, and the list goes on and on and on...

Good to know that pelmeni are now an export product, along with borsch, tushonka and other traditional Russian foods. 
Well actually it does not differ a lot from the Dutch situation where the modern foods have taken over from the traditional ones.