Income question

[DKMM]

Some good advice on here.  I'm adding up the costs for my girl who arrives next month and its getting high and growing by the minute!!  Not just because its an extra mouth to feed... A car (used), insurance for that car, english classes, about $1k for a wardrobe upgrade, new furniture (cheap), new phone, Russian TV channels, calling cards home, recreation equipment (skiis, bike, etc. so she can go with me), new household goods, health insurance until we get married, a couple trips to meet far flung family and friends, and it just keeps growing.

Its a lot different than a domestic lady because she comes broke, with no things, no family help/money, and no meaningful way to contribute income.  I've already tapped out my slush fund on my searches until this point so cash flow will be tight for the rest of this year (and I'm about in your range for where I live, Majestic).

[steviej]

I've already tapped out my slush fund on my searches until this point so cash flow will be tight for the rest of this year (and I'm about in your range for where I live, Majestic).

DKMM - that's real good feedback - a good reality check on this thing. So you're going to be able to swing it, but its tight and you've got to be careful. Those first year expenses, there's so many its almost funny. You understand now, when I say my wife needed everything, she needed EVERYTHING    It really struck me how dependent on me she was, and felt like "WoW, I really have an important responsibility here." I tried to be very careful to never let her feel it was stressing me to get her everything she needed. It made my feeling of cherishing her even stronger, actually, realizing how far she had come and how much security ( of a different sort) she had walked away from to be here with me. I still remember that fondly, strangely enough.

[BC]

Some good advice on here.  I'm adding up the costs for my girl who arrives next month and its getting high and growing by the minute!!  Not just because its an extra mouth to feed... A car (used), insurance for that car, english classes, about $1k for a wardrobe upgrade, new furniture (cheap), new phone, Russian TV channels, calling cards home, recreation equipment (skiis, bike, etc. so she can go with me), new household goods, health insurance until we get married, a couple trips to meet far flung family and friends, and it just keeps growing.

Its a lot different than a domestic lady because she comes broke, with no things, no family help/money, and no meaningful way to contribute income.  I've already tapped out my slush fund on my searches until this point so cash flow will be tight for the rest of this year (and I'm about in your range for where I live, Majestic).

Water, electricity, entertainment, parties.  My wife is a really great cook so the beef I used to buy isn't good enough anymore (she was right).  Quality clothes.. a thousand bucks did not cover that.  Cosmetics.. I mean sheite.. 20 bucks for a friggin pencil?.. (you do want me to look good for you or??) Within two months already pregnant - add another 10k or so more (of course baby had to have the best -and I agree) not to mention another new wardrobe!.

She was overwhelmed with the different products here and naturally wanted to try them all (after all I had..). There are 'make up' expenditures (not cosmetics) involved (you'll find out).

It's tough to learn how to ride a bike without one, so some learning costs are involved until comparison shopping and money values conversions sink in.  The 'solo' shopping experience was interesting.. one RW vs one shopping mall, a fat wallet and her plastic. .  Ok honey.. do what you gotta do.. I'll pick you up in a few hours.

The list goes on and on and on...  If you have made an estimate of funds that will be needed once she arrives, double... -even triple them..  If you can somehow handle that without going to the bank you'll probably do fine.

You guys in the US get a break with travel costs I guess since she has to wait a while for travel docs etc..  Here only a couple weeks for residency permit so.. two trips back within the first year lugging a ton of goods back and forth..

Don't forget the mobile phone and associated costs.

I planned quite generously but missed the hidden costs by a long shot.

The most important lesson out of it all:  Never, ever think you will be able to micro-manage the adjustment of a RW.  She has to learn on her own.  Otherwise it's like telling her to go swim in the pool.. she quickly dons her sexy bikini and gets ready to jump in,- looks down and there is only a couple inches of water in it.  You're gonna hear about it.

[Gator]

Cosmetics.. I mean sheite.. 20 bucks for a friggin pencil?.. (you do want me to look good for you or??)

Don't even try to reduce her spending on cosmetics.  Their need for cosmetics equals their need for air to breathe.  And when they see their first wrinkle, the facial treatments start.

The list goes on and on and on...  If you have made an estimate of funds that will be needed once she arrives, double... -even triple them.. 

One line item did decline after their arrival.  Electricity usage went down as the the A/C was powered down.  Does this mean that electricity will increase during the heating season, offsetting the savings during the cooling season?

[steviej]

Water, electricity, entertainment, parties.  My wife is a really great cook so the beef I used to buy isn't good enough anymore (she was right).  Quality clothes.. a thousand bucks did not cover that.  Cosmetics.. I mean sheite.. 20 bucks for a friggin pencil?.. (you do want me to look good for you or??) Within two months already pregnant - add another 10k or so more (of course baby had to have the best -and I agree) not to mention another new wardrobe!.

She was overwhelmed with the different products here and naturally wanted to try them all (after all I had..). There are 'make up' expenditures (not cosmetics) involved (you'll find out).

It's tough to learn how to ride a bike without one, so some learning costs are involved until comparison shopping and money values conversions sink in.  The 'solo' shopping experience was interesting.. one RW vs one shopping mall, a fat wallet and her plastic. .  Ok honey.. do what you gotta do.. I'll pick you up in a few hours.

The list goes on and on and on...  If you have made an estimate of funds that will be needed once she arrives, double... -even triple them..  If you can somehow handle that without going to the bank you'll probably do fine.

You guys in the US get a break with travel costs I guess since she has to wait a while for travel docs etc..  Here only a couple weeks for residency permit so.. two trips back within the first year lugging a ton of goods back and forth..

Don't forget the mobile phone and associated costs.

I planned quite generously but missed the hidden costs by a long shot.

The most important lesson out of it all:  Never, ever think you will be able to micro-manage the adjustment of a RW.  She has to learn on her own.  Otherwise it's like telling her to go swim in the pool.. she quickly dons her sexy bikini and gets ready to jump in,- looks down and there is only a couple inches of water in it.  You're gonna hear about it.

BC - very funny and oh so TRUE !!! Never get between your RW and the shoe rack either!

[OlgaH]

very funny and oh so TRUE !!!

Yes, steviej, it is true that some women go wild 

[viking]

BC

Glad to hear you have a small one on the way. Take it from one who has two teenage daughters. Take all the money you have spent so far, multiply by ten, actually 100, and maybe you will have some idea what it will cost to have children. They are a LOT more expensive than a wife. You can spend the equivalent of a RT to the FSU just in diapers!!!

[BC]

BC

Glad to hear you have a small one on the way. Take it from one who has two teenage daughters. Take all the money you have spent so far, multiply by ten, actually 100, and maybe you will have some idea what it will cost to have children. They are a LOT more expensive than a wife. You can spend the equivalent of a RT to the FSU just in diapers!!!

That's for sure... but it's quite worth it.  Our little one is well over 4 years old now and our daughter a teen.. boy does time fly.

Remember that my post was written from the perspective of my mindset back then..

In the end, she did not really go 'overboard'.  The quality clothes bought back then are still in use today - so in the end quite reasonable.  Kids clothes that didn't fit anymore were not thrown away but filled in extra suitcases to give to friends and family that had need and could appreciate them.  Believe me, when she buys kids clothes she already plans who will receive them after we are done with them.

Yeah, the no name brand diapers just would not work.. but guess what.. our little one did not even need them long and we were a 'diaper free' household waaay before his peers, so in the end quite ok.

Cosmetics are 'quality' (expensive) but she needs very little. I don't even balk anymore when she buys one of those itsy bitsy jars of face cream at 70 bucks a pop.. I know now it will last at least 6 months.

I mentioned she is a great cook and takes great care selecting just the right and quality (expensive) ingredients. Many of the herbs and spices are grown in our garden. She also makes the best out of them, much to the amazement of an ever growing circle of good friends that come for festivities, or just a weekend feast. 10 to 20 guests is quite usual) Restaurant visits are maybe once or twice a month and the only celebration we do at a restaurant is her birthday. - so also in the end net savings.  We're all healthy, not overweight (although I did put on about 2kg per year, I was quite skinny when we married).

MIL and FIL are both pensioners and come to visit for 90 days every two years. There are costs associated with this but I tell you what a LOT of home improvement projects get done without contractors, trees felled/trimmed and the stack of firewood grows and grows, we have about a two year stock now (we can heat the house with firewood alone) and nothing can beat bbq from aged wood (we grill a lot). So also a net gain.

She's a pretty good doctor too.. knows all the home remedies and is as good at giving injections as an experienced nurse. (doctors here don't normally give shots unless it's a vaccination).

All in all it ain't that bad nowdays, and I can look back fondly at our early experiences and chuckle.. something I might not be able to do had we been underfunded, or even worse required debt.

[ConnerVT]

Electricity usage went down as the the A/C was powered down.  Does this mean that electricity will increase during the heating season, offsetting the savings during the cooling season?

No, not at all.  Well, as long as you used to heat your home to 78F in the winter.   

[Col HJ]

OK, before we all have to go for mushrooms in the forests  ;Dand GM has to sell out and closing plants...hum

CaddyDaddy

Ahhh, off topic tangential discussion. Having teenage daughters has prepped me well for this. Soooo surely with a handle like CaddyDaddy you are aware that GM outsources the manufacture of most of it's cars bodies to Fisher in Canada,imports wiring harnesses from Mexico and electronics from Japan?? And yes there is a thriving Ford/Mazda connection,virtually all of Ford's smaller engines are indeed from the land of the rising sun. I won't even mention the much higher quality level of imports or that the only 100% made in America cars are the Hondas produced in Kentucky. I would love to "buy American" but until that means something I'll continue to be a savy consumer and get some bang for my buck. FWIW I do have a '97 F-150 that is the finest vehicle I have ever owned

[viking]

Sorry BC. I did not know your kids were older. I am just thankful my girls are not into cosmetics. They prefer the natural look. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

Water, electricity, entertainment, parties.  My wife is a really great cook so the beef I used to buy isn't good enough anymore (she was right).  Quality clothes.. a thousand bucks did not cover that.  Cosmetics.. I mean sheite.. 20 bucks for a friggin pencil?.. (you do want me to look good for you or??) Within two months already pregnant - add another 10k or so more (of course baby had to have the best -and I agree) not to mention another new wardrobe!.
She was overwhelmed with the different products here and naturally wanted to try them all (after all I had..). There are 'make up' expenditures (not cosmetics) involved (you'll find out).

It's tough to learn how to ride a bike without one, so some learning costs are involved until comparison shopping and money values conversions sink in.  The 'solo' shopping experience was interesting.. one RW vs one shopping mall, a fat wallet and her plastic. .  Ok honey.. do what you gotta do.. I'll pick you up in a few hours.

The list goes on and on and on...  If you have made an estimate of funds that will be needed once she arrives, double... -even triple them..  If you can somehow handle that without going to the bank you'll probably do fine.

You guys in the US get a break with travel costs I guess since she has to wait a while for travel docs etc..  Here only a couple weeks for residency permit so.. two trips back within the first year lugging a ton of goods back and forth..

Don't forget the mobile phone and associated costs.

I planned quite generously but missed the hidden costs by a long shot.

The most important lesson out of it all:  Never, ever think you will be able to micro-manage the adjustment of a RW.  She has to learn on her own.  Otherwise it's like telling her to go swim in the pool.. she quickly dons her sexy bikini and gets ready to jump in,- looks down and there is only a couple inches of water in it.  You're gonna hear about it.

BC and others, i am really sorry, but this is whole bunch of BS excuse me.... Men, you are totally to blame how your wife spends on shoes, cosmetics, clothes and things like that. What a waste! You didn't teach her, you didn't tell her the limits. And now you are suffering and complaining.....You didn't do your homework, these are the consequences now.
Even if any of you are making half a mil, these spendings still can't be justified. After all rich people became rich because they SAVED and are not spending much.

Please, don't say that RW are like that, each man "makes" his own woman, she is like that because you never told her no or were against it and serious enough about it....

[Blues Fairy]

each man "makes" his own woman

If a woman holds a job and makes her own money, she pretty much "makes" herself and I don't see how her man can simply "tell her no" if she wants to spend a $1000 on a new wardrobe, provided other household bills are taken care of.   I came to the U.S. with more money than my husband had on his savings acct and at least in my choice of shoes I am pretty much my own woman.   

[Shadow]

Unfortunately after 2 weeks of shopping here I would have to disagree with the ladies. Without going overboard on costs, when looking at the shops here it is hard to imagine anyone buying the junk they have on sale.

We noticed that the definition of a 'simple dress' seems to be an old bed sheet cut in half and sewn together. Come to think of it, the material was worse than the old bed sheet. When looking at clothing with labels like 'Armani' or 'Gucci' sometimes I wonder if the home factories even seen the things they dare to sell under the label.
Shoe shops seem to have been catered by one supplier who carries in wooden racks with all the same models for 'sale', only the price tags differ.

Either we are getting old and current fashion has passed by us, or 99% of the things they sell as clothes are crap made as cheap as possible.

It is possible to find shops where they sell things outside the above picture, however they are usually not cheap.

[BC]

BC and others, i am really sorry, but this is whole bunch of BS excuse me.... Men, you are totally to blame how your wife spends on shoes, cosmetics, clothes and things like that. What a waste! You didn't teach her, you didn't tell her the limits. And now you are suffering and complaining.....You didn't do your homework, these are the consequences now.
Even if any of you are making half a mil, these spendings still can't be justified. After all rich people became rich because they SAVED and are not spending much.

Please, don't say that RW are like that, each man "makes" his own woman, she is like that because you never told her no or were against it and serious enough about it....

Anastassia,

Do read my second post on this subject. Also add a wee bit of tongue in cheek.

I did not suffer except for the long standing fact that I do not like to shop.  Complain? about what.. money? We're talking about my wife, and from day 1 after our wedding she had every right in the world to buy whatever she wanted without even asking me.  You cannot teach someone self control, they have to do it themselves and that's what I let her do. 

IMHO it would be very wrong for me to make her budget for her or set limits or hand her an envelope every week and say 'this is your allowance'..  I gave advice when she asked and let her make the decision.  We reviewed what I make, normal expenses etc several times until she understood herself.  She has all the financial tools that I have and could easily have gone way way overboard but this did not happen.  If anything, I think the way we handled it helped elevate the level of trust in our relationship.

My main point here was to emphasize to anyone interested in this venture that they should have a bit of extra padding to make the landing softer.  Adjustment is tough enough as it is.. to add the burden of financial problems is very unwise.

[steviej]

BC and others, i am really sorry, but this is whole bunch of BS excuse me.... Men, you are totally to blame how your wife spends on shoes, cosmetics, clothes and things like that. What a waste! You didn't teach her, you didn't tell her the limits. And now you are suffering and complaining.....You didn't do your homework, these are the consequences now.
Even if any of you are making half a mil, these spendings still can't be justified. After all rich people became rich because they SAVED and are not spending much.

Please, don't say that RW are like that, each man "makes" his own woman, she is like that because you never told her no or were against it and serious enough about it....

Hi Anastasia - I have to agree with BC and disagree with you here a bit. To me it was a joy to be exposed to so much organic "female-ness". My wife just had laser beams on all the shoes, skirts, cosmetics . ... etc she had never seen before. She was a little overwhelmed. Truly it was fun to see the "scientific assessment" everything received. I had no idea one could concentrate so much on this stuff. She, like you and I think most real RWs, is careful with money. She has a nose for quality that amazes me. I think because of the indulgent and affectionate overtones of what BC, myself, and others have said about it, we gave you the wrong impression that its just a woman trying to take advantage of her husband's money. It wasn't that at all. I can remember a couple times where she'd be gone all day and come home with 22 things. Then, for 3-4 days, these "things" would receive the most intense quality assessment, and almost all the time, the 22 things would then be returned.   

[Gator]

Men, you are totally to blame how your wife spends on shoes, cosmetics, clothes and things like that....And now you are suffering and complaining.....You didn't do your homework, these are the consequences now.

I am not complaining.  Besides it would do no good.

You didn't teach her, you didn't tell her the limits.

I am telling her the limits.  And we have to pay the piper, and she has to do without certain things that she would have liked to have done/purchased if she had stayed within limits. 

We are newly married and I have not yet found my RW good with budgets other than a budget based on a cigar box full of money (she opens it, and if money is there, she spends it, and then tells me the box is empty).  She is learning about saving or allocating money to various budget items, albeit reluctantly.

Even if any of you are making half a mil, these spendings still can't be justified. After all rich people became rich because they SAVED and are not spending much.

Old Mexican saying, "Money belongs not to who saves it but to who spends it."

Please, don't say that RW are like that, each man "makes" his own woman, she is like that because you never told her no or were against it and serious enough about it....

Yes, you are correct although I would not use the word "makes."  At 33 she was largely made before marriage.  All I can do is educate her and mentor her.  She has to make any "adjustments" herself.  The same with happiness.  I will go crazy if I feel that I am totally responsible for her happiness.

[I/O]

The upmarket real estate agent's (Not that I have much patience with any agent) adage springs to mind. If you need to ask the price, you can't afford it.

Anastassia: I don't see complaints from the guys here. I see a call to reality check. I think you maybe being a little too "Russian" (Sensitive) on this one. I doubt you would have much idea of how much you really cost your husband before, during and shortly after your arrival..........and you know what? I'll bet my bottom dollar, like the guys who have commented up thread, he loved spending every single cent on you and or your associated costs and would have done it tenfold if need be. You see, it is not only OOP expenses, it is also reduced income streams for many as they need to cut back on their work time for a while and a host of other almost intangible costs.

We are not rich. I work a fairly decent job with a decent salary, I own my home feehold, I have some business capital investment (Non cash flow, capital growth only), I have some business investment with both cash flow return and structured debt, Mrs I/O has recently found herself a decent job and altogether we are fairly comfortable, BUT in tightening economic times, I have been sounding the warning bells around the house for about 6 months now as I see us needing to be somewhat more cautious over the next year or two. For example, the recent 2 $900 glass display cabinets for the dining room have brought furniture expenditure to a halt for a while. The 5K bedroom set will have to wait until next year or several years after........ (Much as I would like to have it now).

I have found Mrs I/O to be fine within guidelines and in fact she has come back a few times and asked me for another copy of the original household budget to check that she is within guidelines. I had to limit her personal allowance to less than I would have liked early on simply based on available cash flow. Interestingly enough, in a matter of about 9 months, she has accumulated a savings (Cigar box style) of several thousand dollars. I set a grocery budget and a personal cash allowance from the outset and it has never been an issue. Her personal expenditure on cosmetics is her own business, it comes from her allowance. Now she works with her own money, she hasn't really changed habits much yet and other than give her a little guidance sometimes, what and how she spends her money is of no concern to me. Have I splashed a couple of expensive treats on her? Absolutely..!! Will it happen again? More than likely. Would I like her to contribute to the family budget? Not very important to me, I would prefer she shouted herself an extra trip back home if she decides she wants to contribute.

Bottom line, need to ask the price? You can't afford it and BTW the 1K wardrobe comment (Whomever made it) about takes the cake on this subject. Pick a digit from 1-9.......any digit and place it along side (Either side will be fine) the 1.

I/O

[steviej]

We are newly married and I have not yet found my RW good with budgets other than a budget based on a cigar box full of money (she opens it, and if money is there, she spends it, and then tells me the box is empty). 

Gator ... so funny! I love that! Your affection for this woman oozes through as well

[DKMM]

Ahh yes the budget.  So I'm wondering how to get that going??  I already told her she will have x amount a month to spend and what she does with it is her business as long as I eat from that.  Its only $1000 a month so we'll see how it goes.  She came from a family where her dad gave her mom 1/10th that much and said "this is all you get, deal with it."  With the rest I handle all of the bills and etc (% for trips home too) with a small cushion we are doing fine.

So do I just give her the cash in a box?  That sounds weird.  I think I'll set her up with a bank account and transfer a certain amount each month and she can learn to make it last.  Maybe some of you are laughing at me now 

One more thing, I'm lucky about the shopping upon arrival, my dear mother and her are already planning a huge spree on their own (its not like I'm going to fight that one)...

[I/O]

So do I just give her the cash in a box?  That sounds weird.  I think I'll set her up with a bank account and transfer a certain amount each month and she can learn to make it last.

That's fine in theory, but FWIW, I'd suggest you go the "Cash in Hand" every week road until she finds her feet, then go the bank account/debit card road later. I think you'll find she'll be a lot more "at ease" with that sort of process at the outset. Don't expect her to manage the grocery (or other household) budget in the near term. I'm not a fan of the cigar box style. Set the budget (Perhaps together) and be involved. You'll find she will appreciate your being the one to pay the bill at the supermarket checkout. That part is easy, it is the hour before (choosing the products) which is similar to Chinese water torture.

I/O

[GalinaF]

Well, we all come from different backgrounds… After our meeting, when we began to discuss our life together, Michael mentioned that he would give me a certain amount of money every month as my personal money. Allowance? For me??? I was very blunt explaining that I would never be happy with a role of an underage child in the family. I told my future husband that I would need to know the whole picture of the family budget to decide myself how much money I would be able to spend on groceries, shoes, travel, etc. Such a concept of common finances was alien to Michael at that moment because he used to have separate accounts with his ex-wife of more than 20 years. To his credit, he was open-minded, and he remembered our discussion. On the next morning after my arrival, we went to the local bank, and Michael put my name as a joint user on his checking account. I got my debit card by mail two days later. Family budget isn’t a rocket science; in six months, I started to pay all of our bills online, and since then, I have come up with quite a few ideas how we can reorganize our finances in the most efficient and profitable for us way…

Of course, if a woman is happy with the “cash in hand” or “cash in a cigar box”  and doesn’t want to worry about the rest… whatever works for you… My point is that one size doesn’t fit all…

[SANDRO43]

On the other hand, if you're clever and affluent, you could consider having your OWN boutique .
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRKYsao2ciY[/youtube]

[BC]

Well, we all come from different backgrounds… After our meeting, when we began to discuss our life together, Michael mentioned that he would give me a certain amount of money every month as my personal money. Allowance? For me??? I was very blunt explaining that I would never be happy with a role of an underage child in the family.

.. and rightly so Galina 

I noted that you had this discussion long before you married.. also laudable.

[DKMM]

Hmm, well I started this conversation by asking her how her family did it.  Of course the first month or two I'll be with her shopping so I'll still have the majority of the budget handled.  Its just something I want to be careful about and I'm glad to have this thread steer me in the right direction.  Actually I like this weekly deal its probably more suited to her short term mindset.  No way am I going to support a luxury lifestyle and she knows that if she wants more money, she needs to get a job.