Income question

[BC]

Hmm, well I started this conversation by asking her how her family did it. 

How her family does things will likely be the way she wants to do it.  First, this probably should have been something you noted while visiting, and second it seems you have not covered this subject yet even though she will be arriving rather quickly (a month or so?).

An old AF saying.. 5 P's.. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Hope no surprises are in store for you and your wife.

[steviej]

How her family does things will likely be the way she wants to do it. 

That seems to be true LOL! My wife's parents are both university educated, ,but they are the first in their families to have attended university. There are a lot of old Russian peasant habits and attitudes in my wife's family. Budget? There never was any such thing. They never had much money. If there was some extra, they spent it. If they didn't spend all of it, they stuffed a little cash around in a few places - shoe boxes, under mattresses ..etc .... LOL .. Really, Russian peasants have learned that someone is always coming around and trying to confiscate your things. The first couple years my wife was the same. It was really funny. I would find little stashes of money in funny places around the house "just in case." She did not trust banks either. Budgetting was simply a dialog. "Honey, I bought this. Is it in our budget?" And I'd say, "Well, not really sweetie." And then she says, "Ok, I'll return it." She did eventually learn to trust banks, .. a little bit! Just recently she put some of her money in a CD for the first time. THAT was quite an emotional event. She checks on it frequently to make sure the bank still has it. Keep in mind, my wife is the most intelligent woman I have ever known personally, and has the equivalent of her masters degree with high honors in literature and journalism. We have many peasant habits in our household. Truth is, I enjoy them all !!

[Mir]

No way am I going to support a luxury lifestyle

And why not? 

[BC]

No way am I going to support a luxury lifestyle and she knows that if she wants more money, she needs to get a job.

And why not? 

When dating it's quite normal to emphasize the advantages your position in life when attempting to form a relationship.

In the western world, she looks at your job, car, neighborhood, house, furnishing and housekeeping style, family, friends, cards/cash in wallet and a host of other factors to evaluate the 'security' aspect of the relationship (all quite normal). 

The RW?  Probably hears the same 'lines' you would use with a AW and has to accept that at face value.  Maybe your wallet can be evaluated but a lot of that is gibberish.. One can't tell between a debit and credit card.  You're dressed to impress having a fine time jetting around the world..

Sure, in the western world once the relationship has formed that things 'normalize' a good bit.. both parties know this based on their overall evaluation of things.

What's a RW to know?  Is it unreasonable for her to expect 'high times' she experienced with you in FSU when she arrives in the US or elsewhere?

The AW will step off a curb gracefully with her knowledge whereas a RW might be stepping off a cliff as far as expectations go..

[DKMM]

BC, the conversation we had was not recently, I'm just revisting it in my head now that her time to come is near.  We had a good idea of how things can work once we are married and settled in, but in the mean time I'm trying to figure out how to get this ball-a-rollin.

Stevej, I hope she didn't have that CD in Indymac? 

Mir, I never wanted to live the luxury life either.  I don't have the cash flow to support it is the most obvious answer but even when my situation improves, I don't plan to ever live in such a way.  Exception - vacations.  If my dear O wishes to upgrade our situation, she can work.  But she seems to think that if we have enough to survive on, she'd rather be a housewife.  Not common for a 23 year old who's finishing her masters but maybe its that peasant stuff lingering like stevej mentioned.

And even with my management of expectations, I still worry about that cliff BC talks about.  She probably worries about a lot more than that so I hope it all goes well.  P.S. she is not coming on a Fiancee visa.

[Ooooops]

I think the bottom line is that you shouldn't spend more than you find reasonable.   If you have no money then $100 cream is totally overboard.   But if you do, then don't be stingy.   

[ScottinCrimea]

My wife was used to living on very little.  When extra money would come her way, this wasn't stretched out, but instead used to buy some thing on her accumulated list of wants and needs.  I found that if I gave her money for a month, it was pretty much gone within the first week and she would live on very little for the next three weeks.  If I gave her enough for two weeks, it was gone within the first week and the second week was tight.  I learned that it was best to give her money a week at a time.  Of course now that her list of needs has been met (though her list of wants has grown if anything) she is able to look at things from a more longterm perspective. She hadn't really had any experience with a budget because there just wasn't money to budget.  She still looks at things from a weeklhy perspective but is also able to see the whole picture now and adjust her spending accordingly.  I don't know if this is true with most RW, but I know it's true with many.  Until you learn what her spending timeline is and what her short versus longterm perspective is, you'll need to be careful.

[ConnerVT]

On the other hand, if you're clever and affluent, you could consider having your OWN boutique .

Speaking of boutiques, here is one in Tver that was worthy of a photograph.   

[Gator]

So do I just give her the cash in a box?  That sounds weird. 

To avoid any confusion, the "cigar box" was a metaphor.   

I think I'll set her up with a bank account and transfer a certain amount each month and she can learn to make it last.  Maybe some of you are laughing at me now 

That is what we are trying to do; however, it takes time.   She has been a competent single mom for many years in Russia so this should not be a problem.  Coming here changes many things, not the least is the fact that prices and choices (not always better in America) are different.  The adjustment period is not just about her adjusting to America; it is also about each of us adjusting to the other.

[vwrw]

After reading this thread I became inquisitive how much money was spent on everything related with my relocation and living here during last 10 months. The sum I have got after computing all relevant expenses, such as tickets for me and my mother, documents, clothes, gifts, rings and wedding cost, food, car and insurance, accident, etc, is equate to approximately 24000.00$ 

We have spent 24000.00$ despite the fact that we both are frugal, for example our wedding cost  about 3000$ and the new –old car cost only 5000$; at least 20000.00$ of the 24000.00$ were spent on exigency’s things.

So, my advice to any guy excited to bring his girlfriend to his location is - you need to have at least 30000.00$ available for additional expenses in the first year of your joint life.

Well, we all come from different backgrounds… After our meeting, when we began to discuss our life together, Michael mentioned that he would give me a certain amount of money every month as my personal money. Allowance? For me??? I was very blunt explaining that I would never be happy with a role of an underage child in the family. I told my future husband that I would need to know the whole picture of the family budget to decide myself how much money I would be able to spend on groceries, shoes, travel, etc.

I am cognizant of the whole picture of our family budget, however I consider it would be unfair if I myself were deciding how much money to spend on shoes, travel and even on groceries. My husband is the only provider for our family’s prosperity yet; I trust his judgments and I know that he would rather deprive his own needs than mine.  And that is why I reverence his decisions on how much he or I should spend on groceries, shoes, travel, etc.

No, in our family we do not practice allowance explicitly.  Contrary to my perspective my husband thinks I must have equal right to decide how much money I spend on whatever; he has never said “no” whenever I wanted to buy something. However, through observations and experiments I figured out how I can guess whether my husband is sincerely happy to spend some money or he prefers not to do that. 

If my husband says “let’s buy it if you want,” and he blinks with usual intensity; the connotation is “the money of "cigar box" is at your discretions”. …So to say by using Gator’s metaphor.
If my husband says “let’s buy it if you want,” and he blinks twice as more intensive than he does usually; I know the connotation is “Stop wasting of money!!!!”    In response to this I say “I change my mind, and I am not going to purchase the thing”.

Do I feel as an underage child because I trust my husband’s judgment and decisions? No, I do not.

[GalinaF]

... If my husband says “let’s buy it if you want,” and he blinks twice as more intensive than he does usually; I know the connotation is “Stop wasting of money!!!!”    In response to this I say “I change my mind, and I am not going to purchase the thing”.

Again, we are  different… First of all, my husband has never objected my decisions to buy anything. Of course, he could have questions, if a thing I was going to buy seemed too expensive for him (e.g., fabric for new curtains), but I usually gave him explicit explanations. So, if I imagine for a second that Michael had a similar reaction – “Stop wasting money!” – it would be a warning sign for me that something had gone wrong and I hadn’t noticed it. It would mean that I had missed something in our financial situation and somehow come up with a ridiculous idea to buy an expensive item at an inappropriate moment. I would start asking clarifying questions until I understand my husband thinking rather than simply change my mind and forget about buying whatever I wanted to buy.

I have to admit that six years ago, Michael said that I didn’t trust him when I began to question something he had said. I don’t remember the topic of our discussion now; it was something insignificant…. Anyway, he had to come to terms with my curiosity…To accept an idea/concept/decision, etc., I need to understand it.

[BC]

I have to admit that six years ago, Michael said that I didn’t trust him when I began to question something he had said. I don’t remember the topic of our discussion now; it was something insignificant…. Anyway, he had to come to terms with my curiosity…To accept an idea/concept/decision, etc., I need to understand it.

And in order to understand it, one sometimes has to make mistakes.  There were many times when I simply let things happen for the sake of a 'learning experience'.  It's much better than putting myself in the middle of the situation, frustrating us both.

There were also crazy ideas my wife came up with that worked out quite well in the end - and I learned.

Keeping an open mind helps.

[vwrw]

Again, we are  different… First of all, my husband has never objected my decisions to buy anything. Of course, he could have questions, if a thing I was going to buy seemed too expensive for him (e.g., fabric for new curtains), but I usually gave him explicit explanations. So, if I imagine for a second that Michael had a similar reaction – “Stop wasting money!” – it would be a warning sign for me that something had gone wrong and I hadn’t noticed it.

Galina, you misinterpreted the quoted part of my post. The misinterpretation is completely my fault; I am known for expressing myself vaguely. 

My husband has never objected verbally any of my decisions to buy anything either.  To each of my suggestion to buy something he always has the same verbally reaction, namely “let’s buy it if you want”.
The words “Stop wasting money!” are just a slightly exaggerated interpretation of the thoughts that might occupy my husband’s mind when he is demonstrating a particular body’s language.

….anyway…I think you correctly understood the main idea I tried to convey…that when you trust your husband, believe in justice of his decision it is not important who of you two decides how much money you can spend on your whims without inflicting a damage on your budget. 

[Ooooops]

I found that if I gave her money for a month, it was pretty much gone within the first week and she would live on very little for the next three weeks.  If I gave her enough for two weeks, it was gone within the first week and the second week was tight.  I learned that it was best to give her money a week at a time. 

You "give" money to your wife?      Don't you have some kind of joint account with ATM cards for both?   

[diverboy70]

I don't really think it so much about the numbers. if you find a good FSU woman she will be happy as long as she can live a normal life without counting every penny. My impresson is that a good RW is not so focused on the numbers, but will want a good husband that can provide an economic security for her and her family. Don't talk about numbers with her, she wont be impressed, just tell her that you can take care of her and your future family economically!

Yes there are women out there that are really focused on numbers, but my best advice is to stay away from those girls, not just for the money issue. Anyway if she just is after the money she will go for a Russian guy. It does not matter how rich you are, there will allways be a russian guy with more money then you!

[Gator]

Again, we are  different…

The difference may be semantics.  Or it may be partly the fact that Galina has been in America for 6 years and VWRW for less than a year.

I have to admit that six years ago, Michael said that I didn’t trust him when I began to question something he had said. I don’t remember the topic of our discussion now; it was something insignificant…. Anyway, he had to come to terms with my curiosity…To accept an idea/concept/decision, etc., I need to understand it.

An intelligent woman will ask such questions.  Nevertheless, it takes time to understand the source(s) of income, how it can vary in magnitude and over time, outside factors such as the general state of the economy, etc.  With that understanding a wife can behave like a partner with regard to financial matters and enhance decision making.  No matter how smart one head is, two heads are smarter than one (if they can communicate).

[OlgaH]

  Nevertheless, it takes time to understand the source(s) of income, how it can vary in magnitude and over time, outside factors such as the general state of the economy, etc. 

IMO there is not any difference between the source(s) of income in Russia and any other country. The sources of income in Russia is also vary in magnitude and depend on outside factors 

[Gator]

And in order to understand it, one sometimes has to make mistakes.  There were many times when I simply let things happen for the sake of a 'learning experience'.  It's much better than putting myself in the middle of the situation, frustrating us both.

That can go so far.  RW know the cash system well, and so you introduce them to the debit card, illustrating how it works like cash, showing how it records expenditures for later analysis if needed, and explaining a need to monitor the balance.  When she overdraws her debit card account and spends $39 for a cup of coffee ($4 for coffee, $35 bank fee) (and does something similar five times over two days) one has to step in quickly.   BTW, the debit account is now arranged where it will not honor overdraws (no "safety net").

[Gator]

IMO there is not any difference between the source(s) of income in Russia and any other country. The sources of income in Russia is also vary in magnitude and depend on outside factors 

I disagree.  Russia has greater variability and the influence of outside factors is more substantial.   

My feeling is that within each RW, more so with some RW than others, there is imprinted a belief that the man is suppose to bring all of his money home each week, put it in the middle of the table, everyone takes what they need, and if it is not enough the man must go get more money.  They do not save (other than squirrel away a bit here and there) because there is never enough. 

Whatever it is, the RW I got to know were different with money than AW I  knew.  As a good point for RW, I think most because of the bad financial times they have experienced are more frugal than AW.   Also, I doubt that they would create excessive debt vis credit cards as notorious among some AW. 

[groovlstk]

After reading this thread I became inquisitive how much money was spent on everything related with my relocation and living here during last 10 months. The sum I have got after computing all relevant expenses, such as tickets for me and my mother, documents, clothes, gifts, rings and wedding cost, food, car and insurance, accident, etc, is equate to approximately 24000.00$ 

We have spent 24000.00$ despite the fact that we both are frugal, for example our wedding cost  about 3000$ and the new –old car cost only 5000$; at least 20000.00$ of the 24000.00$ were spent on exigency’s things.

Kudos, VWRW. This is a great snapshot and one that bears close resemblence to our experience so far.

[ScottinCrimea]

You "give" money to your wife?      Don't you have some kind of joint account with ATM cards for both?   

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  This was during the time she was living in Ukraine before I moved there and I sent her money regularly for reasons that I have mentioned here before.  Now we do indeed have both a joint account and we make decisions on where our money goes together, or at least she makes the decisions and I agree with her.  

[OlgaH]

the man is suppose to bring all of his money home each week, put it in the middle of the table, everyone takes what they need, and if it is not enough the man must go get more money.  They do not save (other than squirrel away a bit here and there) because there is never enough. 

So, what is difference? Almost every week some men cut grass on our property or time to time we hire somebody to clean our property. All that men as I know have a job, but their salary is not enough, so they takes additional jobs for some cash 

There are many businessmen and businesswomen who have several accounts in the banks, and also just working people who have personal bank accounts for savings in Russia. BTW I have my personal account in a Russian bank 

PS
The husbands and wives of the families that I personally know in Russia plan their family budget together and nobody hides nothing from each other

[diverboy70]

You just have to bear the coasts when dating a RW. As the man you are expected to take all the costs for the dating phase. It has nothing to do with income. My girl is working at a big international company in St:pete and relatevely she has about the same pay as I have here.

You just have to be prepared to take the expenses when you are dating a RW. So far I have spent more than intended, but it was worth every cent  

[GalinaF]

….anyway…I think you correctly understood the main idea I tried to convey…that when you trust your husband, believe in justice of his decision it is not important who of you two decides how much money you can spend on your whims without inflicting a damage on your budget. 

I understood your point. In my opinion, there is a difference between “believing” and “knowing”. I “trust” Michael when he says that it’s okay to change oil in a car every 5K miles and that I can disregard the number on the sticker on my windshield. I don’t look into it; I simply change my oil every 5K miles. But when it comes to money matters, I do need to understand the math while contemplating: to buy or not to buy. If I understand the dynamics of our finances correctly, I can figure out myself how much we can spend on our “whims”. Of course, if there is a big purchase coming, we discuss it and make a decision together. But I don’t discuss my routine expenses with my husband. E.g., when I go to NYC to see my daughter, we usually go to a restaurant for a dinner. Walking down the street and picking a restaurant, I can decide myself how much is okay to spend. It happens automatically, and I think it’s important (for ME!) to be able to make such routine decisions on my own.

[GalinaF]

That can go so far.  RW know the cash system well, and so you introduce them to the debit card, illustrating how it works like cash, showing how it records expenditures for later analysis if needed, and explaining a need to monitor the balance.  When she overdraws her debit card account and spends $39 for a cup of coffee ($4 for coffee, $35 bank fee) (and does something similar five times over two days) one has to step in quickly.   BTW, the debit account is now arranged where it will not honor overdraws (no "safety net").

Gator, I’m sorry, but if your example is a real one, it was your fault that you failed to explain to your wife how a debit account works. If you had emphasized that she had to check how much money there was in the account before buying something, she would have never paid with a debit card while was no money in the bank. I can’t imagine an adult person who could deliberately ignore such a simple rule…