Ukraine Observations (Agency hype subtracted)

[Stirlitz]

Not so Great Interpreters/Guides:

Kiev/Odessa
Igor Kalinin
This is another very experienced person used by many people with very solid background  and reputation. I also felt that with his experience level comes the associated cost. I felt quite pressured by him to drive to Odessa (and cover some of the costs we assume). The apartment prices I was offered were high and the women he sent me to look at were poor to average. I am sure that they are all well qualified and genuine, but certainly not my speed. When I arrived I called him and asked for help finding an apartment. I admit it was alittle bit of a test. He calls me back with a place for $100/night, even tho I had emailed him several times that my budget was $50. Had he jumped on the internet for two minutes like Evgeniya, he could have produced a page full of aparments from $45/night as she did. (I eventually took one for $55 night right where I wanted to be which was great) This simple task showed me that I was expected to fit into a pre-existing price structure that was comfortable and convenient for him. Not a good fit for me I am afraid.

I would be obliged if I could be moved to the "Strongly Avoid Interpreters/Guides:" because I would be gladly be 'strongly avoided' by people like BL. What can you say about a person who never knows what and when he actually needs however you ask him? Emails you several weeks in advance but never tells the date of the arrival (it turns out it is not several weeks but just one), claims he arranged a place to stay but then calls to say he is in the railway station and needs an apartment urgently, but does not return calls? Sorry, I do not need such 'tests' and I do not need such 'clients'. If you are anything like BL, please do not bother me.

The lesson I learned is I am not going to budge until I am sent a retainer. Because otherwise it all boils down to a waste of time and effort and no result, and then you are 'not so great interpreter/guide'. The only good thing is I never got to meet BL and do anything for him despite so many calls, emails and requests. I am sure that it saved me a lot of trouble.

When I arrived I called him and asked for help finding an apartment. I admit it was alittle bit of a test. He calls me back with a place for $100/night, even tho I had emailed him several times that my budget was $50.

A hint: e-mail with the budget several years in advance but never say WHEN you actually arrive. Then, you can arrive any time and get the apartment at the price you requested, no matter how short notice: because you 'EMAILED with your budget'… I begin to realize why some people only switch on the turning light when they actually make a turn.

[BC]

The lesson I learned is I am not going to budge until I am sent a retainer. Because otherwise it all boils down to a waste of time and effort and no result, and then you are 'not so great interpreter/guide'.

Smart man.

[Shadow]

Shadow,

I understand your point about "needed" things, and it may be valid, but it is still justification for a relationship based on financial need rather than free choice. In my not so humble opinion, that can NEVER work long term. Social of financial inequity is barrier to a solid foundation. That does not mean that a woman with little or no money that is content to live on little or no money is automatically precluded, but IF she is not able to live at that level and is seeking a relationship with you to address that, it is.

This is as true in the west as the east. I see some of my wealthy friends with women that I know will dump them faster than a bad dose if the money flow constricts the lifestyle to which they aspire. Seen it happen in the dot com bust. All of a sudden "things arn't working out". Problems arise in situations that werenot a problem when lubricated with enough cash before. etc etc. Who needs that.

I do accept that some women become loyal and are willing to go through the rough times, but in my experience, 995 of the ones that had their eye on your wallet to start with will bail.

You don't need to see the word generous to get that message of course. A few dates can tell fairly quickly. As one board member said, if she is willing to just walk around with you then she likes you. If She wants the full Sushi dinner then watch out.

BTL, the term 'little or no money' does not mean anything. What is little money to us, can be a good life in the FSU.

My key signal was on how they described their life and surroundings. If they emphasized all the things they were unable to do because of money, I took it as a negative. When people can not be satisfied how they are, the amount of money you throw at them can never be enough.

[BC]

BTL, the term 'little or no money' does not mean anything. What is little money to us, can be a good life in the FSU.

My key signal was on how they described their life and surroundings. If they emphasized all the things they were unable to do because of money, I took it as a negative. When people can not be satisfied how they are, the amount of money you throw at them can never be enough.

And rightly so..

When I proposed to my wife, I flat out told her that the only material things I could guarantee were a solid roof over her head and regular meals on the table.  I believe this 'set the stage' for our marriage.

[dazzler]

I am Darren Pitman (dazzler111111@yahoo.co.uk)  from England and I was "1 of the 5" people who recommended the interpreter and guide Slava translation.ukraine@gmail.com to BL.  Simple reason for that is that I have used Slava's services twice and have had a VERY positive experience with him!  Slava is definitely NOT lazy and definitely NOT greedy!!!  This guy has gone the extra mile for me several times and I have had nothing but positive experiences.  It is for this reason that I decided to use Slava's services a second time and I will not hesitate to use his services again!!  I think it is unfair to say such negative things about a guy who you have never used BL!!!  I used Slava for the 1st time in December and January and had a very positive experience meeting 20+ women (all of whom were more my type than not!)  Not a bad service and certainly not over priced!!!  The second time I used Slava's service in March and April I was on an extremely limited budget but Slava still helped me offering most services either for a very low price or for FREE!!  Indeed I have just arrived in Kharkov for a 3rd time and Slava met me (as a friend) and has helped me with settling in etc all for FREE!!!  Greedy, I think not!!  By the way I have met a girl through Bride RU and her Mother lives near me in Yorkshire.  Things have been going well and so I am taking the gamble to go to Russia and meet this girl, although I am obviously hopeful it will work out!!  However, if it does not I will definitely use Slava's services again!!  I am passing through Kharkov on the way to Russia and decided to write this before I leave for Moscow.  Please contact me on my e-mail - dazzler111111@yahoo.co.uk  if you wish:-)

[groovlstk]

Given past history it might make sense to break off ALL discussion of guides into its own thread so as not to divert from important facets of TRs.

[Admin]

Given past history it might make sense to break off ALL discussion of guides into its own thread so as not to divert from important facets of TRs.

Yep!

If anyone wants to 'give props' to someone they have worked with - please do it in the appropriate forum (found here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=8.0).

Thanks,

- Dan

[polo593]

I have to jump on the Slava thing here. I think Slava is past his prime for this. Maybe a few years ago he might have been a top choice but not any more. I don't think he has his heart in it anymore. Plus his university job pays him pretty well now so he doesn't need the cash as much.

My impression is he'll do just enough to get buy. While I like him as a person, I couldn't in good conscious recommend him to anyone without making sure they know which of the 2 Slavas you might get. Slava has a ton of experience, insight, ability, etc. but he doesn't have the drive any more. If you lay down wads of cash you might get his enthusiasm level back up as he seems most motivated by $$$ than a desire to do a good job.

I watched how little he did for JD with respect to how much money he spent. It definitely wasn't a good ROI. He was tardy getting the add in. Didn't pre-screen the women hardly at all. In general it was a waste of money for JD to do an add. Conceptually I like the ad idea but the Slava's execution left a lot to be desired.

Slava came highly recommended but the same person that previously recommended him recently told me he would never use him again. I know JD wouldn't either.

There is no doubt though that things have increased in cost. If you want a good reason to learn Russian, just look at the cost of translation. That should give you some impetus to at least learn a little. I've probably saved and easy $5,000 or more because of my Russian ability. I don't spend money on terps. I can easily source my own apartments. I can better haggle with the locals. I'd say its been closer to 10k in savings. That doesn't even factor in how often it has kept me out of trouble and added to my confidence level.

Great trip report, and I agree with most of your comments TAZ (I used Slava's services also). On any trip, you can minimize costs easily. When I read about guys bringing $2000+ for one week, and when I hear about interpreters charging $300 - $500 - $1000+ for ad-related services, now thats taking advantage of someone who is either a newbie or don't know any better. And some people just don't know any better because they never had a totally honest guide who's a straight shooter "all" the time. Yep, you said, which of the 2 are you getting. Much better service out there for your money. After all, Ukraine is full of young, enthusiastic and friendly people looking to earn some of your $$$ I could say more about some of the names mentioned, but that will be on another thread and a differnet post, because there is much more to say about "service people" (Guides) in Ukraine. It's a difficult enough journey trying to find the right FSU woman, let alone having to play games with your interpreter....

[Thor]

Great trip report, and I agree with most of your comments TAZ (I used Slava's services also). On any trip, you can minimize costs easily. When I read about guys bringing $2000+ for one week, and when I hear about interpreters charging $300 - $500 - $1000+ for ad-related services, now thats taking advantage of someone who is either a newbie or don't know any better. And some people just don't know any better because they never had a totally honest guide who's a straight shooter "all" the time. Yep, you said, which of the 2 are you getting. Much better service out there for your money. After all, Ukraine is full of young, enthusiastic and friendly people looking to earn some of your $$$ I could say more about some of the names mentioned, but that will be on another thread and a differnet post, because there is much more to say about "service people" (Guides) in Ukraine. It's a difficult enough journey trying to find the right FSU woman, let alone having to play games with your interpreter....

300-500 Dollars is nothing!! If you cant use that amount of money so do I fear that you cant afford to bring a FSU girl back home. 300 dollars for running a ad and organize all the calls that comes in from that ad is very cheap. Meet a agency girl and you have to pay at least 100 dollar all inclusive.  Would you run and organize a ad for someone back home for only 300 dollars??? Some men have dont know anything or have very littel knowlegde about life in Ukraine. They belive that living costs, service and so on are at a very low price, but its NOT!!! The prices have raised a lot in FSU the last 2-3 years. Very funny, I see that you say:"Ukraine is full of young, enthusiastic and friendly people looking to earn some of your $$$". Yeah right. I saw a US guy that used a young unexsperenced girl like this in Kharkov this summer with NO sucess at all!!!!!!!!! Why?? Several reassons of course. But this peoples dont have the skills and exsperience that are needed to find the serious girls at all. Some guys go all the way from the US and have limited time in Ukraine, and then they use guides like this...I dont know if I shall laugh or cry....

[Jack]

I dont know if I shall laugh or cry....

Thor, do both.

I laugh at the fools and cry for the good sincere guys who don't know any better.

[CCowboy]

Since this thread has included references to Slava as well as myself, I feel compelled to add my response.  Like most of Slava's clients, I was referred to him by someone else.  I can't remember who though and it was from another list.  I first made contact with Slava in the fall of 2005, but I didn't actually meet Slava until my first visit to Kharkov in May 2006.  I had WOVO woman that didn't work out.  I also met another woman through an agency and used Slava for his translation services and I had a good impression of him.  Slava is a very pleasant and enjoyable person to be around.  I didn't use his ad campaign until June of 2007.  During this time I passed on his information to several other's, including Taz, which I now regret.  Slava wrote to me and thanked me for the referrals with this reply:

"Thank you very much for your recommendation, Robert. Taz wrote me and we discussed his ads by email. I sent him my price $200 for small photo ads. Now I am waiting for his money transfer. If he does transfer money to me, as I promised you, I will use the part of my profit to finance partly your ads. Feel free to recommend my services to other men. I would be very happy to get more clients for spring-summer time as I have no classes at the university and more free time."

He actually said in another e-mail that I would receive credit for 20% of his profits and my ad campaign could be free.  That was something I never requested and I have never received compensation from anyone for recommending their services, nor have I asked.  Recommending or not recommending services is part of being associated with the group.  I sent my $200 for the ad campaign and arrived in early June 2007.  Before my arrival, I received an e-mail from Thor telling me he met his wife through Slava and was very pleased and that was very encouraging.  So, what I expected, according to Slava, was that the ad campaign would begin 3-4 weeks before my arrival and by the time I arrived, he would have numerous screened women for me to meet.  Instead there was none.  Instead he had created a profile for me on Flirt.Com to keep me "busy" for my first 5-7 days.  Then he started the ad campaign for me the following week.  What I learned is that Slava had a VIP client in Kharkov and was giving him nearly 100% of his time.  This guy could not spend his money fast enough.  To make matters worse, it was someone I had recommended to Slava.  After feeling basically ignored during my first week, I wrote a very strong e-mail telling him how upset I was for his neglect of me.  That seemed to put a fire under Slava and I started meeting women from my ad.  With Slava's method, most women you meet are sight unseen.  Most of the women I would have never met had I seen their photos or if I had other information, such as one who was 26 and wanting children.  I don't expect Slava or anyone to hand pick a wife for me.  But when I'm being sent to meet a 26 y.o. young lady wanting a family, something wasn't right.  Things that Slava told me he would do, he didn't do.  He made excuses like telling me it's a lot about luck.  It took Thor meeting 50 women before he met his future wife.  Other men can be lucky and meet just a few women.    I was 62, did not want children, and preferred a woman late 30's to mid 40's and independent of children.  I was not a 60+ y.o. man looking for a 20-something hottie.  I didn't even expect Slava to show up for the first meeting.  I had my laptop with a good translation program and plenty of photos and information about my life.  Enough to see if there's mutual chemistry.  Too many of my meetings ended after one meeting because of a lack of mutual interest.   I met maybe 8-9 women from the ad and two of them had strong potential.  By the time I left for home, I actually decided to pursue a serious relationship with one of the women but eventually, that did not work out.  That's another story in itself.  I returned to Kharkov for 2 weeks in August and that's when things fell apart with her.

I also met up in August with the woman I had met in June 2006 and her revelations cast further light about Slava.  After I returned home from that trip in early July, I wrote her a long letter, through Slava, telling her I was interested in pursuing a serious relationship with her.  For simplicity, I'll call her Olga.  One problem was that Olga never studied English and didn't know how to use a computer or type.  Her entire English vocabulary was "thank you very much, and Olga loves Robert", which I can not say in Russian.  Not a big deal.  Maintaining communication with her was going to be difficult.  I left her some money so she could buy some basic English language materials.  Time passed and I never heard back from her until nearly 2 months later.  Slava told me that when he gave Olga my letter, she didn't want to respond at that time.  I had sent the letter the 2nd week of July.  According to Olga, Slava gave her my letter in early August the day before he was leaving to the Black Sea for his holiday....about 3 weeks after I sent it.  Olga had no way to contact me and when I didn't hear back, I thought she'd lost interest.  I finally received her reply on September 15.  She was equally interested in furthering our relationship.  Also stated in the letter was that she used the money I gave her for textbooks, cassettes, and discs.  Olga said this was not true.  I never spoke to Slava about this matter and I'm going on what Olga told me.  I have no reason to believe otherwise.  For personal reasons, I chose not to rekindle things with Olga.

I decided to return again in October.  I'm sure that Slava knew I was upset because he placed two ads for me at no charge.  By the time I arrived, he had over 35 responses and was very pleased.  I'll admit I was equally excited.  I met maybe 3 women from the ad and then there was nothing.  I kept asking Slava about the other responses and he finally said none were right for me.  Over 35 responses to my ad and only 3 worth meeting?  Also, I knew Slava had other clients in town at that time, so again, no time for me.  One day I received a text from Slava to "call this woman, she speaks good English, she was very nice, and waiting for my call".  So I called.  She spoke good English but I knew nothing about her and I learned she knew nothing about me so I asked basic questions.  Height: 172cm, weight: 52kg, smoke: no, drink: very little, age: 23.  Of course I refused to meet her, explaining I was 63.  She persisted and since I had nothing better to do, I agreed.  I was curious about what kind of 23 y.o. girl wants to meet a 63 y.o. man.  So I met her and was pleasantly surprised with "Lolita".  Obviously, nothing was going to become of this and it was a waste of time.  If Slava had asked basic questions, I would have never met with Lolita.  I saw her a few times, plutonically and just as friends.  When I returned home, I received an e-mail from her asking for a $4000 "loan".  I declined and the next day it was reduced to $500.  I again declined and never heard from Lolita again.

I could have easily been a success story for Slava that he would have passed on to other potential clients.  One of the women I met in June, from the ad, I met with again in August, again in October and then I went again in January to see her exclusively.  Why things didn't work out is too complicated for this thread.  I will say that dispite my dissatisfaction with Slava, it only takes meeting the right woman to make all that I went through worthwhile.  I need to wrap this up.

I think Taz hit the nail on the head regarding Slava.  Placing personal ads is a great way to go.  It's much better than dealing with most agencies out there.  But the success of placing an ad depends solely on leads being followed up.  Slava has been at this for over 12 years.  I don't know how many successes he's had.  Obviously, Thor is very happy with the results and a few others have posted they are also happy with Slava.  I've referred about 9 men to Slava.  I followed up with most of them.  With the exception of the VIP client I referred to him, most men were dissapointed with Slava and would never use him again or recommend him.  Slava has definite opinions about most everything.  He is very anti-agency and most are scammers.  Most women with agencies are professional daters and not serious.  I know Slava knows the agency business very well in Kharkov and there may be a lot of truth in what he says.  For me, I may be a victim of being in the right place but at the wrong time.  He was quick to thank me for referrals and offering to share his profits.  I'm sure he earned well over $1000 from my referrals, but I still paid the full amount for my ad campaign.  I wrote to him, I didn't want his money, I wanted his time.  Still, I was ignored for the VIP client I referred to him and comments from Slava indicated I was not a VIP client.  If it was only me, you'd think I have an axe to grind.  But too many other's have had similar experiences.  It's not about Slava's abilities.  He has years of experience.  A lot has to do with WHEN you are in Kharkov and what his work load is.  During the busier months, he has clients overlapping or 2-3 in town at the same time.  It is not about his laziness.  It's about overload.  It's about the ethics of providing services promised.  I expect to get flamed by Slava's supporters, but I know too many others who will support my comments.  I will never use or refer business to Slava in the future.  

[GreginGa]

I never used an agency owner in Kharkov except to help plan my wedding. His name was Dmitry and he was once the owner of Kharkovgirls.com.  This guy was gold. I dont think he's in the business anymore and thats a shame. I always found him to be very efficient and very honest. I lost contact with him and I wish that hadnt happened. I also knew a Galina from Gateway2heart. She was also very good and very honest although I never really needed her except for an apartment. I think Dmitry's assistant Luda ended up somewhere in Florida.

[iceiceman]

I have to jump on the Slava thing here. I think Slava is past his prime for this. Maybe a few years ago he might have been a top choice but not any more. I don't think he has his heart in it anymore. Plus his university job pays him pretty well now so he doesn't need the cash as much.

My impression is he'll do just enough to get buy. While I like him as a person, I couldn't in good conscious recommend him to anyone without making sure they know which of the 2 Slavas you might get. Slava has a ton of experience, insight, ability, etc. but he doesn't have the drive any more. If you lay down wads of cash you might get his enthusiasm level back up as he seems most motivated by $$$ than a desire to do a good job.

I watched how little he did for JD with respect to how much money he spent. It definitely wasn't a good ROI. He was tardy getting the add in. Didn't pre-screen the women hardly at all. In general it was a waste of money for JD to do an add. Conceptually I like the ad idea but the Slava's execution left a lot to be desired.

Slava came highly recommended but the same person that previously recommended him recently told me he would never use him again. I know JD wouldn't either.

There is no doubt though that things have increased in cost. If you want a good reason to learn Russian, just look at the cost of translation. That should give you some impetus to at least learn a little. I've probably saved and easy $5,000 or more because of my Russian ability. I don't spend money on terps. I can easily source my own apartments. I can better haggle with the locals. I'd say its been closer to 10k in savings. That doesn't even factor in how often it has kept me out of trouble and added to my confidence level.

.....In one word:
"SLY"

[Brianinaz]

Dan

Please indulge me here because this is important. Facts are being grossly distorted here and I wonder to who's benefit. People above have suggested charges of $300, $500, and $1000 for ads from this fellow. Now me Dan I'm done. I've married one of the most wonderful women I've ever met in my entire life and I've known a bunch of pretty cool people. And for clarity again even if Slava were cutting me in
 on the !0-$12 an hour he makes helping people out here it really doesn't help my $200+/hr fee as a surgeon. So my motivation here is just that it P***** me off to read this stuff about a guy who really does the right thing. If you read my posts I'm not interested in personal issues or conflicts but at some point one needs to stand up and go on record for people that are doing a good a good job and doing the right thing. And so I will; the name is Brian Peters, MD. My phone number is  928-468-2473 , my skype name is brian.peters.md, my email address is bpeters7@aol.com. Below is the email concerning ad charges from Slava. He ran a second ad for me at no charge because he was not satisfied with the response to the first ad. I met my wife through the second ad he placed and was married in Kharkov on 7/19/08. If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me.

Brian Peters, MD


Hello Brian,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
First of all, I would like to confirm that the dates the 25th of January through the 4th or 5th of February are OK with me. I will need to make a reservation of an apartment for you in Kharkov. But it could be done later in December.
 
I totally understand your desire to be successful. And I would like you to know that I will give my best to help you find a truly good woman to be your future wife.
 
But first of all, I have to be honest with you, I cannot guarantee 100% success. Nobody can. This is life. You need to have some good luck. Without good luck, even the best plan can fail...
 
If I was one of the agencies, I would give you immediately lots of very nice promises in order to get quickly your money. All these agencies do not care about people, they only care about money...
 
I am not an agency. In fact, I am a university teacher and freelance professional  translator/interpreter/guide. My "matchmaking" business is something I do to earn some extra money, but my main motivation is that it allows me to meet new people, be able to help them and sometimes make friends with nice people. I am an optimistic and happy man and I like to deal with only similar kind of people. I prefer to avoid disappointment, trouble and unhappiness. Of course, when one has to deal with different people, it is totally impossible to avoid it, because some people are pessimistic or there are also men that like to blame all other people around them, but not themselves, for their failures and bad luck...
 
Brian, why am I saying all this to you? To explain you, that your mission to find a good wife in Ukraine is NOT impossible, but difficult...
You are a good looking and successful man, and of course you deserve a young, pretty and decent lady. But I can see two difficult points: you have four kids and you want a wife that will be a lot younger than you. Besides, you are an American, which makes it even more difficult (the times when nearly all Russian/Ukrainian women dreamt about rich American husband are over several years ago) as now most women here do not want to leave Ukraine.
 
If it was just a matter of money, I would simply tell you: if you invest $200 into ads, you will have 20% of success and if you invest $1000, you will have 100% success. But this is not so simple. The more money you invest, the more ads I will get published, therefore, the more women will call and want to meet you. However, there is no guarantee that any of these women will be exactly the type of woman you look for. Of course, the more you invest, the more chances you have to meet your type of woman...but no guarantees.
 
If you want, let's start ads at the beginning  of December, let's do a trial week, just for $150, if you are happy with the first results, then you will send more funds and we will continue with more ads. How do you like this idea?
 
Finally, what is the advantage of this system versus agencies? You will deal only with women who are SINCERELY and GENUINELY interested in YOU. There are no agencies who stand behind them and push them to meet you to get your money, there are no fake "romantic" letters written by agency translators, there are no professional models playing a role of "mail-order brides".
 
ONLY FAIR PLAY...
 
I look forward to hearing your decision.
 
Have a great Sunday!
 
best regards,
 
Slava


So, I represented myself accurately. I sent current photos, and information. I have 4 children and was looking for an attractive woman who might want want to have more children and I am 51. I did not get a bunch of BS blown up my ass but rather an "I don't know if you will succeed given what you've told me but if you wish to proceed than I will help you" response. I proceeded and well I succeeded. If you mis- represent yourself and fail then who do you have to blame?

Brian Peters, MD



-----Original Message-----
From: Translation Office <translation.ukraine@gmail.com>
To: BPeters7@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 2:11 am
Subject: Copy of email from 18 November



Copy of email from 18 November

2007/11/18 Translation Office <translation.ukraine@gmail.com>


Hello Brian,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
First of all, I would like to confirm that the dates the 25th of January through the 4th or 5th of February are OK with me. I will need to make a reservation of an apartment for you in Kharkov. But it could be done later in December.
 
I totally understand your desire to be successful. And I would like you to know that I will give my best to help you find a truly good woman to be your future wife.
 
But first of all, I have to be honest with you, I cannot guarantee 100% success. Nobody can. This is life. You need to have some good luck. Without good luck, even the best plan can fail...
 
If I was one of the agencies, I would give you immeditely lots of very nice promises in order to get quickly your money. All these agencies do not care about people, they only care about money...
 
I am not an agency. In fact, I am a university teacher and freelance professional  translator/interpreter/guide. My "matchmaking" business is something I do to earn some extra money, but my main motivation is that it allows me to meet new people, be able to help them and sometimes make friends with nice people. I am an optimistic and happy man and I like to deal with only similar kind of people. I prefer to avoid disappointment, trouble and unhappiness. Of course, when one has to deal with different people, it is totally impossible to avoid it, because some people are pessimistic or there are also men that like to blame all other people around them, but not themselves, for their failures and bad luck...
 
Brian, why am I saying all this to you? To explain you, that your mission to find a good wife in Ukraine is NOT impossible, but difficult...
You are a good looking and successful man, and of course you deserve a young, pretty and decent lady. But I can see two difficult points: you have four kids and you want a wife that will be a lot younger than you. Besides, you are an American, which makes it even more difficult (the times when nearly all Russian/Ukrainian women dreamt about rich American husband are over several years ago) as now most women here do not want to leave Ukraine.
 
If it was just a matter of money, I would simply tell you: if you invest $200 into ads, you will have 20% of success and if you invest $1000, you will have 100% success. But this is not so simple. The more money you invest, the more ads I will get published, therefore, the more women will call and want to meet you. However, there is no guarantee that any of these women will be exactly the type of woman you look for. Of course, the more you invest, the more chances you have to meet your type of woman...but no guarantees.
 
If you want, let's start ads at the beginning  of December, let's do a trial week, just for $150, if you are happy with the first results, then you will send more funds and we will continue with more ads. How do you like this idea?
 
Finally, what is the advantage of this system versus agencies? You will deal only with women who are SINCERELY and GENUINELY interested in YOU. There are no agencies who stand behind them and push them to meet you to get your money, there are no fake "romantic" letters written by agency translators, there are no professional models playing a role of "mail-order brides".
 
ONLY FAIR PLAY...
 
I look forward to hearing your decision.
 
Have a great Sunday!
 
best regards,
 
Slava

[BetweenLines]

My intention in this thread was not to "bash" anyone, especially not Slava. I have not met him and I have no personal experience of his services so that would be very unfair and clearly
<  Y O U R   M I L A G E   M A Y    V A R Y  >

No two people are going to experience a process like this the same way. This trip, for me, was on a budget, so I was looking for the more "hungry" guides/interpreters.
I became nervous with Slava in the days leading up to my trip only because I could not get a handle on the total cost.

I have met some very fine people (Darren Thor etc) who have strongly recommended Slava and they have all met with great success. This thread is just *MY* experience from *MY* point of view.

As Thor pointed out, it is false economy to fly all the way there and then quibble about the cost of an add in the paper. I agree. As a percentage of a trip from the US its probably irrelevant. On this trip I was playing it by ear and did not want to begin a process like this and then discover that I was doing better in another city with another method (agency, clubs whatever).

Igor, I am sorry you are so offended. Clearly we have different concepts of what an interpreter/guide's role is. As I mentioned in my email contact, I did not have exact dates as this trip was put together on a day by day basis. I did not arrive in Kiev by plane on a certain date, I got there after several days of complex travelling that could not be pre planned. It is virtually impossible to buy train tickets outside Ukraine.

My concept was to arrive and see what could be put together. I had hoped you would come and meet me and help me get a place. The person I had lined up for Kiev flaked out and you happened to be there. In the end, a super nice interpreted came to meet me, we sat in the internet cafe at the train station and inside 15 mins had an apartment lined up. We took a taxi to the place and I was set. Now how hard would that have been for you to do... really?

When you called me over and over about traveling to Odessa in your car I felt that I was having to have to fit into your schedule. If you want the business, then you have to accommodate the customer. This is what I do in my business or they go somewhere else.

Try and remmber that this was my FIRST trip. I had no idea what to expect, no language skills and no clue what I was doing. I was just there to experience the place and see how things worked.  I needed your help, not a force fed pre-digested experience.
 
I am sure you are a very fine interpreter and have a lot of experience, but I was not able to get what I needed from you at a cost that made sense to me. I was very clear in my emails that I wanted to find something reasonable. Why would I rent a $100 apartment when I can rent a $55 one with a little effort?

When I look for a person to hire, I am looking for someone that is acting on MY behalf, looking out for my interests. Someone that can deliver the best service at a good price.  After my interactions with you, I didn't get that feeling. That's all. I don't dislike you. I don't think you are bad at what you do. You just were'nt a good match.

[GreginGa]

I think what we had here was a failure to communicate. Obviously terps and guides have to make money for their time. I would highly recommend a guide/terp for a first trip if you feel insecure and you should feel insecure to a certain extent. I dont mean you have to have the guy hanging on your coat tail every waking moment and paying for his every meal and paying double for taxi's and triple for apartments.

I know Thor has always spoken highly of Slava. Maybe he was a little busy but also understand that customer service in Ukraine is a little different than a concierge at a Ritz Carlton. Customer service or at least what we expect as Americans in Ukraine as compared to what we actually receive,well thats a whole other subject. The first trip is always an eye opener. I'm sure people will say they couldve done this on their on or they couldve done that on their on once they get back. Then there are things and tasks where they will probably say,I'm sure glad ole Slava or Igor or Pavel was available to help me because it really got me out of a pinch and probably saved me time,effort and money.

This process is always evolving but at the end of the day it's still about boy meets girl. The trick is finding the most productive,feasible,safe and satisfactory way to do so.

[Thor]

I think what we had here was a failure to communicate. Obviously terps and guides have to make money for their time. I would highly recommend a guide/terp for a first trip if you feel insecure and you should feel insecure to a certain extent. I dont mean you have to have the guy hanging on your coat tail every waking moment and paying for his every meal and paying double for taxi's and triple for apartments.

I know Thor has always spoken highly of Slava. Maybe he was a little busy but also understand that customer service in Ukraine is a little different than a concierge at a Ritz Carlton. Customer service or at least what we expect as Americans in Ukraine as compared to what we actually receive,well thats a whole other subject. The first trip is always an eye opener. I'm sure people will say they couldve done this on their on or they couldve done that on their on once they get back. Then there are things and tasks where they will probably say,I'm sure glad ole Slava or Igor or Pavel was available to help me because it really got me out of a pinch and probably saved me time,effort and money.

This process is always evolving but at the end of the day it's still about boy meets girl. The trick is finding the most productive,feasible,safe and satisfactory way to do so.

Greg,

I agree with everything you say here Greg. The first trip is allways a eye opener. Also if you demand customer service like back home so will you be every disappointed . The service in FSU is totally different to back home. I truly believe that it would be very wise to study all you can about Ukraine before your arrival. Read on boards like this, read internett sites mm. Then you will be much more prepared when you go. I read here that some guys gets so disappointed over small things when they come to Ukraine. It can be that the guide don't deliver like they expect and so on. The locals are much more relaxed to things comopered to back home. To be successful in Ukraine you need to be easy going and don't care to much about the small things. So many guys try to understand this culture by comparing it to back home and that is a big mistake. The guys that try to learn this culture and understand it by Ukrainian eyes will be successful. They will not be so upset by the small things that sometimes happend. This could be big things back home like bad service and so on, but in Ukraine is nothing.

[Thor]

My intention in this thread was not to "bash" anyone, especially not Slava. I have not met him and I have no personal experience of his services so that would be very unfair and clearly
<  Y O U R   M I L A G E   M A Y    V A R Y  >

No two people are going to experience a process like this the same way. This trip, for me, was on a budget, so I was looking for the more "hungry" guides/interpreters.
I became nervous with Slava in the days leading up to my trip only because I could not get a handle on the total cost.

I have met some very fine people (Darren Thor etc) who have strongly recommended Slava and they have all met with great success. This thread is just *MY* experience from *MY* point of view.

As Thor pointed out, it is false economy to fly all the way there and then quibble about the cost of an add in the paper. I agree. As a percentage of a trip from the US its probably irrelevant. On this trip I was playing it by ear and did not want to begin a process like this and then discover that I was doing better in another city with another method (agency, clubs whatever).

Igor, I am sorry you are so offended. Clearly we have different concepts of what an interpreter/guide's role is. As I mentioned in my email contact, I did not have exact dates as this trip was put together on a day by day basis. I did not arrive in Kiev by plane on a certain date, I got there after several days of complex travelling that could not be pre planned. It is virtually impossible to buy train tickets outside Ukraine.

My concept was to arrive and see what could be put together. I had hoped you would come and meet me and help me get a place. The person I had lined up for Kiev flaked out and you happened to be there. In the end, a super nice interpreted came to meet me, we sat in the internet cafe at the train station and inside 15 mins had an apartment lined up. We took a taxi to the place and I was set. Now how hard would that have been for you to do... really?

When you called me over and over about traveling to Odessa in your car I felt that I was having to have to fit into your schedule. If you want the business, then you have to accommodate the customer. This is what I do in my business or they go somewhere else.

Try and remmber that this was my FIRST trip. I had no idea what to expect, no language skills and no clue what I was doing. I was just there to experience the place and see how things worked.  I needed your help, not a force fed pre-digested experience.
 
I am sure you are a very fine interpreter and have a lot of experience, but I was not able to get what I needed from you at a cost that made sense to me. I was very clear in my emails that I wanted to find something reasonable. Why would I rent a $100 apartment when I can rent a $55 one with a little effort?

When I look for a person to hire, I am looking for someone that is acting on MY behalf, looking out for my interests. Someone that can deliver the best service at a good price.  After my interactions with you, I didn't get that feeling. That's all. I don't dislike you. I don't think you are bad at what you do. You just were'nt a good match.

BL,

I think that you are clever since you first go to Ukraine to see if this is something for you  before you start to use a lot of time, effort and money. Many guys just take a plane and have no idea whats it like. Now you have time and you have your exsepriece from this trip to decide if you want to go back and look for a girl. You traveled almost all of Ukraine and now youknow where to go if you go back. As I told you in Kharkov, better stay in one place to look for a girl in stead of  use time to travel around.

Now you can use your exsperiences from this trip and make a good plan about where to go and how to find the special one. I guess that you will be very sucessfull when you back to Ukraine.

[CCowboy]

Brian,

What I wrote was my personal experience with Slava.  I never questioned his costs and I never wanted part of his income.  Up until my trip in June 2007, I felt I had a good relationship with Slava.  He was very prompt with his correspondence and seemed to want to help me in any way he could.  But it all went down hill once I arrived.  Maybe the problem was I didn't do enough business with Slava.  I didn't rent an apartment through him because I had other connections.  It was strictly the ad campaign and whatever translation services I'd need.  Slava told me he began the ad campaign prior to my arrival but the results were poor because he started it too soon.  I accepted that.  So he began the ad campaign once I arrived.  I had very little contact with Slava my first few days.  Then he came to my apartment and showed me the Flirt.Com profile he started for me.  Then I wouldn't hear from him for a couple of days.  I'd met a few women from Flirt that was OK.  Then I learned that he was very busy with a VIP client.  It was the same person I'd referred him to.  Maybe Slava thought that since I was going to be there for a month, I had plenty of time.  All I know is that each time I contacted Slava, he was too busy.  I'll admit that after all the business I'd referred to him, I was p****d.  That's when I wrote him how upset I was.  So Slava worked me into his schedule and explained he has regular clients and VIP clients, and this other guy was a VIP client.  I got the picture.  If you come to town with a bank roll, you receive super service.  I tried very hard to keep focused on why I was in Kharkov and not let my problems with Slava get to me.  But with my own experience and feedback I received from others, I learned that Slava is not all that he seems or claims to be.  You and Thor and a few other's will will continue to be loyal friends.  But I can name many other's who have a different opinion of Slava.  I think Taz's comment about which Slava you get will leave the lasting impression.  For my $200 ad campaign, it was just a 40 word ad, no photo, that I think was run 3 times.  For that, I met about 9 women, most were poorly screened.  One time he translated for me.  That was it.  It was much the same experience when I returned in October, only worse.  There were more than 35 responses by the time I arrived.  But I met just 3 women and the rest?  "Robert, they were not right for you".  But the 23 y.o. Lolita was right?  I joked and made light of it.  What else could I do?  It was near the end of my trip and I'd had enough of Slava.  Slava has the experience, knowledge, and the ability to do a great job.  My feeling is that Slava used me to obtain referral business but when it came time to deliver, I was not in that VIP category.  He wrote "I consider you more as a friend than a client".  Friends do not treat friends the way I was treated by Slava.  I could write more, but enough is enough.                

[Admin]

Here we go again .....

This is all rather predictable, as it is simple human nature.

Any one of us that strikes out into new territory and finds someone willing to help us - AND - if that helps produces 'fruit' - we are likely to feel positively towards the one(s) who provided the help. Especially when recognizing the economic disparities and how much they will benefit from additional work and income.

Couple of stories.

In 1998, I spoke almost no Russian. I wanted to conduct business in Ukraine, and made my plans accordingly. I began travelling there often. In early 1999 I was introduced to a young man who was my interpreter, and he quickly became much more than that. The first apartment I rented in Kyiv was a dump. Not just by western standards, but by ANY standard - and Dima, my interpreter, was the one who helped 'guide' me through that. There were a series of incidents - almost all resolved by Dima because I could not communicate. To this day, Dima and I have a very strong relationship, and I consider him a dear friend.

HOWEVER - I recommended him to others, and some of those did not have the same positive experiences I had with Dima. Were they wrong? No, I doubt it.

With an interpreter/guide in a foreign land, interpersonal dynamics enter into the equation and it is FAR more complex than a simple domestic business transaction.

The OP in this topic has a 'right' to his opinion - and to express that opinion.

Others, of course, will have *different* experiences and opinions - BUT - those do NOT negate the OP's comments. They are merely different.

IIRC Slava has an account here and has visited in the past. He is free to respond - just as other service providers add their responses. Those comments, too, are merely different and do not negate the OP's experiences. It is up to each reader to decide for themselves what seems more credible and what to 'take aboard' for their own journeys.

IN ANY CASE - please do not turn this topic into another mud-slinging contest over guides.

- Dan

[Thor]

Here we go again .....

This is all rather predictable, as it is simple human nature.

Any one of us that strikes out into new territory and finds someone willing to help us - AND - if that helps produces 'fruit' - we are likely to feel positively towards the one(s) who provided the help. Especially when recognizing the economic disparities and how much they will benefit from additional work and income.

Couple of stories.

In 1998, I spoke almost no Russian. I wanted to conduct business in Ukraine, and made my plans accordingly. I began travelling there often. In early 1999 I was introduced to a young man who was my interpreter, and he quickly became much more than that. The first apartment I rented in Kyiv was a dump. Not just by western standards, but by ANY standard - and Dima, my interpreter, was the one who helped 'guide' me through that. There were a series of incidents - almost all resolved by Dima because I could not communicate. To this day, Dima and I have a very strong relationship, and I consider him a dear friend.

HOWEVER - I recommended him to others, and some of those did not have the same positive experiences I had with Dima. Were they wrong? No, I doubt it.

With an interpreter/guide in a foreign land, interpersonal dynamics enter into the equation and it is FAR more complex than a simple domestic business transaction.

The OP in this topic has a 'right' to his opinion - and to express that opinion.

Others, of course, will have *different* experiences and opinions - BUT - those do NOT negate the OP's comments. They are merely different.

IIRC Slava has an account here and has visited in the past. He is free to respond - just as other service providers add their responses. Those comments, too, are merely different and do not negate the OP's experiences. It is up to each reader to decide for themselves what seems more credible and what to 'take aboard' for their own journeys.

IN ANY CASE - please do not turn this topic into another mud-slinging contest over guides.

- Dan

Dan,

This post is fare away from a mud-slinging contest over guides. Like you say some have good exsperiences with guides (mostly the guys who where sucessfull), and some have bad exsperiencess. Some peoples get along with most peoples and some dont. I imideatly had good chemestry with Slava and also I am a very easy going person and that always helps. Idont take my self serious at all. This is sometimes take and give. If you are nice to othetrs you will recive the same back(my exsperience from life). I dont say that the guys who have bad exsperiences with guides has done sometims wrong or stupied.

[CCowboy]

Thor,

I agree with you and others about not expecting the same level of service you'd receive at home.  I've made far more trips to Russia and Ukraine than I thought I'd ever make.  With most things I am very self sufficient and I've learned to survive even with my poor knowledge of the Russian language.  But with Slava's ad campaign approach, a person is 100% dependent on Slava and his follow-up to the responses.  I didn't need Slava to hold my hand or go with me to every meeting.  In fact, I preferred to meet the first time without a translator.  But getting Slava to follow-up on the responses was the biggest problem.  Slava is very un-organized.  He scribbles notes on scratch paper.  He seems to be juggling 2-3 customers most of the time.  I don't think I was very demanding.  I did expect leads to be followed up and they weren't.  This was the #1 complaint I received from others.  Slava said you met about 50 women.  So maybe they weren't screened and you met every woman who responded to your ad?  Maybe Slava's biggest problem is with his university position and his family responsibilities, he's just too busy.  Whatever the problem is, he seems to give great service to a handful but the bare minimum to the rest.  As a result, he has his staunch supporters but far too many are left with a bad impression of him.  I know that Slava has clients that are a nightmare for him to deal with and no one could deal with them.  One in particular who you referred to Slava.  But most who speak poorly of Slava is because of Slava.  I respect your loyalty to Slava.        

[Admin]

Dan,

This post is fare away from a mud-slinging contest over guides. Like you say some have good exsperiences with guides (mostly the guys who where sucessfull), and some have bad exsperiencess. Some peoples get along with most peoples and some dont. I imideatly had good chemestry with Slava and also I am a very easy going person and that always helps. Idont take my self serious at all. This is sometimes take and give. If you are nice to othetrs you will recive the same back(my exsperience from life). I dont say that the guys who have bad exsperiences with guides has done sometims wrong or stupied.

Thor,

No, it has not been mud-slinging just yet - BUT - there are some mighty suspicious activities going on with this topic. Just sent PM's to some folks asking about those activities, and I hope to hear back from them REAL soon.

- Dan

[CCowboy]

Dan,

I'm trying to post as honest and as accurate discription of my experience with Slava...without it being labled mudslinging.  As a person, Slava is very likeable, very knowledgeable, and very experienced.  The bottom line is that based on prior communications with Slava and paying for what was promised, I had a certain expectations.  Had I been his only client at that time, my results would have probably been different.  Slava chose to follow the money and what I had done for him previously didn't matter.  It was his choice and my choice is to not use him or recommend him in the future.  It's embarrassing for me to recommend Slava and then get feedback of how disatisfied they were.  It's not one or two people but most everyone I recommended and they were not people counting kopeks.  Then for it to happen to me, it tells me that Slava has different levels of service he provides.  Brian has a series of e-mails supporting Slava.  I can produce similar e-mails.  When someone enlists Slava's services, they need to understand they are going to be 100% dependent on Slava following through.  Slava needs to know this as well and maybe this will cause him to be more aware and more conscientious.         

[Jack]

ahhh, now this is interesting,   "are some mighty suspicious activities going on with this topic".    Dan I assume I am reading the same post's you are reading.  I, like you, have a little experience in this field and with people and what do you see from what has been written in these post's that I do not see?   

I cannot see "some mighty suspicious activities going on with this topic" from the post's made so can I assume that maybe their are other post's related to this topic in some other threads and if so could you direct me there?