Ukraine Observations (Agency hype subtracted)

[Jack]

Betweenthelines, in case this thread begins to head south I also wanted to comment as to your trip report.

Overall I think it was good. You gave your personal, honest opinions.  Some of the people you have recommended I have made notes on and plan to contact.

If any negative I see from your report it would be what I would consider not enough thorough planning prior to your trip on your part.

[Admin]

Dan,

I'm trying to post as honest and as accurate discription of my experience with Slava...without it being labled mudslinging.  As a person, Slava is very likeable, very knowledgeable, and very experienced.  The bottom line is that based on prior communications with Slava and paying for what was promised, I had a certain expectations.  Had I been his only client at that time, my results would have probably been different.  Slava chose to follow the money and what I had done for him previously didn't matter.  It was his choice and my choice is to not use him or recommend him in the future.  It's embarrassing for me to recommend Slava and then get feedback of how disatisfied they were.  It's not one or two people but most everyone I recommended and they were not people counting kopeks.  Then for it to happen to me, it tells me that Slava has different levels of service he provides.  Brian has a series of e-mails supporting Slava.  I can produce similar e-mails.  When someone enlists Slava's services, they need to understand they are going to be 100% dependent on Slava following through.  Slava needs to know this as well and maybe this will cause him to be more aware and more conscientious.         

Yes, I know. My comment was not directed at your posts or Brian's.

There are a few others, however, that appear . . . . suspicious, hence, my PM's to the author(s) inquiring about some things.

In saying that my comments were not directed at yours - a quick recap.

The OP posted about their trip report. Because something was not favorable towards a service provider, it was met with a rebuttal that offered a 'counter' to the less-than-favorable report about a service provider. It is at that point we need to determine what is appropriate. In one instance, the service provider themselves made an appearance and it seemed to end any further exchange. In this other instance, we have the OP's posts, then we have a counter-opinion posted - and then a counter-counter-opinion posted . . . . and on and on it goes.

Shall we allow the OP's TR to be hijacked by those who do not agree with his assessment? I, for one, feel that would be inappropriate. We have a forum specifically established for those people who wish to recommend one of their 'buddies'. Take the recommendations THERE - and do not interrupt a TR. That seems fair, doesn't it?

- Dan

[Admin]

ahhh, now this is interesting,   "are some mighty suspicious activities going on with this topic".    Dan I assume I am reading the same post's you are reading.  I, like you, have a little experience in this field and with people and what do you see from what has been written in these post's that I do not see?   

I cannot see "some mighty suspicious activities going on with this topic" from the post's made so can I assume that maybe their are other post's related to this topic in some other threads and if so could you direct me there?

Jack,

I already wrote that I've sent them PM's - and that is all I will post until I see a response from them.

- Dan

[Jack]

Shall we allow the OP's TR to be hijacked by those who do not agree with his assessment?

No!   Take those post's, starting with the first one that says "well I used so and so and they were fine" and move to a new thread, or delete.

[Jack]

I think this is the very reason why some guys do not post trip reports. Their honest opinion conflicts with someone else's personal, previous stated point of view.

Comments about the trip report, fine.  Comments taking to task what the person has commented on to a certain level, not so fine.  I guess this is why we need moderators/Admin input, to determine what that "certain level" of opposing view is.

[Admin]

I think this is the very reason why some guys do not post trip reports. Their honest opinion conflicts with someone else's personal, previous stated point of view.

Comments about the trip report, fine.  Comments taking to task what the person has commented on to a certain level, not so fine.  I guess this is why we need moderators/Admin input, to determine what that "certain level" of opposing view is.

And that is why I've stepped in twice (maybe thrice) now.

ALL the comments are welcome - let's simply be respectful of the person's trip report - and post experiences in the appropriate forums.

- Dan

[Thor]

Thor,

I agree with you and others about not expecting the same level of service you'd receive at home.  I've made far more trips to Russia and Ukraine than I thought I'd ever make.  With most things I am very self sufficient and I've learned to survive even with my poor knowledge of the Russian language.  But with Slava's ad campaign approach, a person is 100% dependent on Slava and his follow-up to the responses.  I didn't need Slava to hold my hand or go with me to every meeting.  In fact, I preferred to meet the first time without a translator.  But getting Slava to follow-up on the responses was the biggest problem.  Slava is very un-organized.  He scribbles notes on scratch paper.  He seems to be juggling 2-3 customers most of the time.  I don't think I was very demanding.  I did expect leads to be followed up and they weren't.  This was the #1 complaint I received from others.  Slava said you met about 50 women.  So maybe they weren't screened and you met every woman who responded to your ad?  Maybe Slava's biggest problem is with his university position and his family responsibilities, he's just too busy.  Whatever the problem is, he seems to give great service to a handful but the bare minimum to the rest.  As a result, he has his staunch supporters but far too many are left with a bad impression of him.  I know that Slava has clients that are a nightmare for him to deal with and no one could deal with them.  One in particular who you referred to Slava.  But most who speak poorly of Slava is because of Slava.  I respect your loyalty to Slava.        

CCowboy,

I am sorry that you had a bad exsperience with Slava.  Yes I meet 50 girls during my 2 weeks sat in Kharkov 2005, Jack Bragg use to say that it a numerus game . I remember that Slava had over 120 calls on my newspapers ad, but I could not meet all of course. It was the 2 funniest weeks of my life . Most of this girls where blind dates, but Slava had sendt me
some photos of some of the girls upon my arrival. And in the end I meet my wife .

When I said that some men are to demanding and not prepered to what will meet them in Ukraine so was I not refering to you at all!!

[Fashionista]

>to my astonishment, she started to smile!  It was like the clouds parted and the sun beamed down on that little cubicle she sat in.  Her whole face changed, and she actually looked like life was fun.  I cannot tell you how much of the triumph that was.  We had brought a human being out of the Soviet  robot.

In all honesty, I don't think you are teaching anyone in FSU how to have joy in their life . I assure you, they knew that long before you came there. You were probably viewed as a rude person, but later you behavior was interpreted along the lines that you are simply a silly person, and can therefore be forgiven (hence, the smile).  This is not to flame you but to simply suggest observing more and teaching those grim russians "the right way" less.  That might get you farther if you are serious about your intentions.  Nevertheless I do undestand that you probably had quite a bit of a cultural shock, and I compliment your effort.

[GreginGa]

In all honesty, I don't think you are teaching anyone in FSU how to have joy in their life . I assure you, they knew that long before you came there. You were probably viewed as a rude person, but later you behavior was interpreted along the lines that you are simply a silly person, and can therefore be forgiven (hence, the smile).  This is not to flame you but to simply suggest observing more and teaching those grim russians "the right way" less.  That might get you farther if you are serious about your intentions.  Nevertheless I do undestand that you probably had quite a bit of a cultural shock, and I compliment your effort.

Me thinks you are trying to flame the guy.

[Taz]

Same Slava I am talking about it. He is a teacher at the university. The service JD got was less than great. I can't say I was overwhelmed with the services I asked from him as well. CCowboy or whatever his handle is here had the same experience as JD if not worse even after having used Slava several times.

Slava is a nice guy but I honestly think he is tired of this whole thing. I wasted a lot of my own time doing things that Slava could have easily done for me and not wasted my limited time in country. JD did an ad and maybe got 5 replies to it. Slava didn't do much in the way of pre-qualification of the potential candidates. Instead JD had basically 4 wasted meetings.

I spent quite a bit of time with Slava and I am very familiar with his services. Nice guy but his service is slipping compared to what it might have been earlier.

[Admin]

OK - and now leaving the "Slava" portion of topic behind . . . . .

- Dan

[Fashionista]

Me thinks you are trying to flame the guy.

Then my comment has no value and you can simply strike it out as inconsequential.

Greg, I already said it's not to flame, but if you believe to the contrary, I cannot do anything about it.

[GreginGa]

Then my comment has no value and you can simply strike it out as inconsequential.

Greg, I already said it's not to flame, but if you believe to the contrary, I cannot do anything about it.

I just think you might have read too much into what he said or misinterpreted his actions. I to have ran into that exact same girl at cafe's,the cell phone store,various hotels,markets and businesses around Ukraine. I also usually try to make light of those situations with humor and a smile. I really dont have to get into specifics about customer service over there to prove my point regarding the cold unconcerning nature of some employees in that neck of the woods. When I find out that they are not to be humored then usually I humor myself by asking them about recent Notre Dame football games or something they would absolutely have no clue about. It's not too hard to smile and some of those folks need to try to do it more often. Including my mother-in-law. My wife on the other hand has the best sense of humor of any woman I've ever met. She's not Kathy Griffin just yet,but she is better looking than Kathy Griffin.

[Stirlitz]

Clearly we have different concepts of what an interpreter/guide's role is.

My concept was to arrive and see what could be put together. I had hoped you would come and meet me and help me get a place. The person I had lined up for Kiev flaked out and you happened to be there. In the end, a super nice interpreted came to meet me, we sat in the internet cafe at the train station and inside 15 mins had an apartment lined up. We took a taxi to the place and I was set. Now how hard would that have been for you to do... really?

Yes we have quite different concepts. My concept is if someone wants my help it should not be vague to start with. My help is not free either generally speaking. You ask how hard would it have been for me? I reply: it is very hard to do something for a person who does say anything specific and wants you to do something he is not sure what and when and how, and is not going to get back to you for sure — just maybe. In Russian it is called 'go there I don’t know where, fetch me that I don’t know what'. You call me from a train station and want me to locate an apartment, but you do not say if you will pay for my time and will use what I do for you at all. And indeed, before I am able to do anything, you find someone else and do what you need with them without ever telling me about this, thus wasting my time. This is your favorite mode of operation and I understand that it is very convenient for you but you improve your chances at the cost of other people. In the future I am not going to do anything for you or anyone who acts like you. Either you clearly hire me or you are on your own. I do not know if this is the concept of doing business in the US but certainly not what I am OK with. I quite agree that 'customer is king' and usually try to act in line with this concept, but as long as the customer remembers that 'king' is not only the one who does what they please and must be pleased by everybody, but also someone who pays like king and, more important, keeps his word. This is the other side of the coin overlooked by many. But customers who do not keep their word should not expect to be treated like kings at all and customers who want to get everything for free can rather be called beggars than kings.

I am sure you are a very fine interpreter and have a lot of experience, but I was not able to get what I needed from you at a cost that made sense to me. I was very clear in my emails that I wanted to find something reasonable. Why would I rent a $100 apartment when I can rent a $55 one with a little effort?

Why indeed? Why bother me then? I was very clear in my previous emails that I could NOT get you a $55 apartment per night. You can read the price but still want the candy for free? You could have said: look, here is the deal, I will pay you this fee to locate the cheapest apartment possible for me. I would tell you if I can do it or not, and we have a deal, I deliver what we agree on. Simple. But you like it better this way: see if you can find an apartment faster than this interpreter, and if you get any cut from it at the price I need is your problem. Fair? I do not think so.

When you called me over and over about traveling to Odessa in your car I felt that I was having to have to fit into your schedule. If you want the business, then you have to accommodate the customer. This is what I do in my business or they go somewhere else.

How can I accommodate someone who does not know what, how and when they want? I did not press you. I only wanted to hear a definite answer: yes or no, and when. This is what I expect a man to do. It is women who prefer to reply 'maybe' to questions while hinting that they mean 'yes'. But again I understand that you try to keep your chances open as much as possible however it is inconvenient for other people. Keeping your word is something which is in the way and not needed. Sorry, I cannot accommodate anyone like that. Place me on the ‘not so great guides’ list or whatever but I cannot help.

When I look for a person to hire, I am looking for someone that is acting on MY behalf, looking out for my interests. Someone that can deliver the best service at a good price.  After my interactions with you, I didn't get that feeling.

Is the person supposed to make efforts on your behalf but you can still keep your chances open, use other persons and not even let the person know about that and never pay anything for the effort? I can tell you that when I have a request to be hired, I expect to actually be hired, not be given a free trial.

And, 'thank you very much' for publishing my e-mail address on the forums even though I stated in my emails this could not be done without my consent. Even though Dan was prompt to remove it per my request, the time it stayed in the open (17 hours) was enough for spambots to grab it and I am now getting spam. Normally I do not get any due to careful policy of sharing my e-mail addresses but there will always be someone who does not care for others and does what they please. It looks like this is typical for you. Again, I think I am lucky I have not had a chance to meet you and be hired by you. I am sure that it saved me a lot of trouble. On the other hand, now I have an idea what kind of potential customers to stay aloof from and I thank you for that.

[BC]

Excerpt from http://unclepasha.com/prejudices.htm

Russian bride seekers. Many of these are problem cases by definition, so one who undertakes to serve this crowd should not complain too much or too seriously when some of their crap rubs off on you. As a group they are moved by often intense emotions, and my problems with them (a couple ended up in my Black List) inevitably arose out of my following their desperate "act right away or the world will end" plea. The key to successfully working with Russian bride seekers is ability to do nothing, no matter how desperate the plea, till a pre-payment is made or some demonstration of their commitment is received. I think I've sort of learned working with them. OK for the dead season but I look forward to cutting them off at the first opportunity.

Lets move on....  Is this still a TR?

[Stirlitz]

Excerpt from http://unclepasha.com/prejudices.htm

In fact, I remembered this (had seen it before) when writing my response.

I guess it is time for me to have my own black list.

[BC]

I guess it is time for me to have my own black list.

Yeah, the note at the bottom of his blacklist page was interesting:

All problem individuals, without exception, were Russian brides seekers. Two of them (est. 20%) were lawyers.

[TW1970]

Why indeed? Why bother me then? I was very clear in my previous emails that I could NOT get you a $55 apartment per night. You can read the price but still want the candy for free? You could have said: look, here is the deal, I will pay you this fee to locate the cheapest apartment possible for me. I would tell you if I can do it or not, and we have a deal, I deliver what we agree on. Simple.

In Igor's defense, I also contacted him prior to my trip to Kiev and I thought he was very reasonable. We spoke on the phone once and he informed me that he would be willing to help me but that he was not available for about 10 days because another client had already booked his services. I asked about apts cheaper than $60 a night in Kiev and he said that would be difficult as they are generally priced higher.

I was traveling with a friend (who couldn't make up his mind on anything) so I never used Igor's translation/interpreter services because our plans were too vague. But Igor did send me an email right before I left for Kiev asking if everything was ok and I thought that was cool.

[Stirlitz]

I chatted with an American today while walking with him around Odessa. For some reason we spoke about generations. He said that the new ones are often referred to as the ME generations. Now I understand something.

[Stirlitz]

Smart man.

Turns out I am stupid. I came across this thread and a link to Uncle Pasha here.

The key to successfully working with Russian bride seekers is ability to do nothing, no matter how desperate the plea, till a pre-payment is made or some demonstration of their commitment is received.

Last update September 19, 2005 — before this thread. So I am slow rather than smart.