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Author Topic: Is your woman religious?  (Read 10055 times)

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Offline diverboy70

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Is your woman religious?
« on: July 29, 2008, 07:22:56 AM »
After 10 days with my girl and a lot of talks about the big things in life, I have a new feeling for J and a lot of respect for the big heart and soul that lives in that young body!

J is a believing Orthodox and regularily go to church and god is a very important part of her life. I have explained to her that I am a "believer" but not really a Christian. maybe rather slightly a Buddhist after my dive intructor work in Thailand. She is ok with that but she also said she would have a big problem with a muslim or a atheist. I quess she is a bit predjudist in that way. She also really have a problem with gay people and did not really understand me when I said that I have some good friends that are gay.

But all her values is based in her beliefe. As a very liberal person I am quite surprised about myself liking that in her. I guess she brings in some stability to my otherwise hectic and not so stable life :) I just feel that her beliefe gives her so much and at the same time it is giving me some kind of peace of mind of having her far away from me.

What are your wifes/GFs view of religion?

Offline Kuna

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 03:16:29 PM »
diverboy,

Firstly I'm very happy to hear your relationship continues and strengthens...

I understand what you're asking in your post but I want to comment on something else first if I may.

I find it strange when talking about J's Orthodox beliefs you add that you are a "believer" but not really a Christian - and then you go on to claim "slight" beliefs in buddhism.  It's all a little confusing and probably representative of your lack of commitment either way, considering that confusion.

May I suggest (with respect) that you're not really a believer - of Christianity or Buddhism, possibly because you've not yet FOUND a comfortable place to be in - metaphorically speaking.

Now,  my wife always said she was RU Orthodox but always claimed she was not "strict"...  I was unsure what this really meant and assumed it was just like many of us in the west (i.e. Lazy Christans - you know,  "Oh, I believe, I just don't go to Church".)

In my first TR you'll read about an experience where my wife and I were walking in Kiev and I sensed she hesitated a little as we walked past the Golden Dome Cathedral in Kiev (I think St Michaels - but I'm not sure... mental blank at the moment).  Anyway, I asked her if she wanted to go inside.

1. She was shocked I asked;
2. She was surprised I noticed her hesitation (told to me later)
3. Her persona and behaviour changed instantly on entering the church and stayed that way for a long time after leaving.  I sensed more purpose, still fun and happy... but certainly an internal strength had overcome her.
4. I unexpectedly saw a side of her I hadn't expected to see.

Since her arrival in Oz we've been to church a few times and I see the same strength in her after our visits.  She wants our children (she's pregnant at the moment) to be Christened Orthodox and before agreeing to that I said I wanted to visit the church and speak with the priest because I knew little of Orthodoxy.  After our visits and discussions I'm in the process of conversion to Orthodoxy, I think.  I say I think because there's no pressure from anyone (Wife or Priest) to convert from my Lutheran upbringing), but I must admit the things I've learned so far leave me in a more comfortable position with religion.

In short, we're going through a process in our family now that I am very comfortable and happy with.

I know it's a long answer but I just wanted to let you know that if you've found a girl with a similar respect and reverence of her religion as my wife is you'll probably be living with someone who emotionally and physically gains strength from her beliefs.  To be outside of that experience she has would be a great loss in my opinion, especially as you've described yourself as a "believer, but not in Christianity, maybe a little Buddhist.

Keep an open mind but most of all try to understand that for some people religion is more important than they might admit, maybe even more important than they understand. You've probably not arrived at "that place" but your attitudes and actions will have an impact on someone that may very get much from her religion.

diverboy,  as I go back to read your post again... (the part about her reaction to gay people and your gay friends)....  I'd just suggest you spend a little time really thinking about the "values" discussions that you've had with her and try to decipher which parts of your "compatibility" are genuine (calmly based on reality) rather than a result of infatuation and soaring feelings.

It sounds like your values are quite different and while she may be "ok" with the lack of religious compatibility and be "a bit prejudiced", these underlying characteristics may be more of a divide than you expect.

How much do you think you can or will change to adapt to her values.  How much do you thnk she will or should change to meet your values.  I think "accepting the differences" can work at times but when it has to do with deep personal beliefs, or the lack of them, I personally believe dangers are ahead for both of you.

All the best...  I'm not trying to tell you how to suck eggs or anything,  but hopefully introducing some serious thought for you to consider.

Kuna


Offline smilingjake

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 07:00:17 PM »
The woman I have been corresponding with is religious. She is of Christian Faith. She will often tell me in her letters that she attends services  on Sundays and it is of great benefit to her.

I find it interesting that after church she will walk to the "House of Invalids" where she spends time with an older lady who has no family or friends that come to visit. They read the bible and my friend brings her comfort.

Myself, I am of the Lutheran faith and try to attend services as regularly as possible. Unfortunately I have been working a lot of overtime on weekends so havent made it as  often as I like as of late.















a

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 07:42:28 PM »
The woman I have been corresponding with is religious. She is of Christian Faith. She will often tell me in her letters that she attends services  on Sundays and it is of great benefit to her.

I find it interesting that after church she will walk to the "House of Invalids" where she spends time with an older lady who has no family or friends that come to visit. They read the bible and my friend brings her comfort.

Myself, I am of the Lutheran faith and try to attend services as regularly as possible. Unfortunately I have been working a lot of overtime on weekends so havent made it as  often as I like as of late.
a

Jake,
The "woman I have been corresponding with" is either a 100% fraud or, if you actions are as she describes, you have no worry about her being a scammer.  If she cares about other people as you describe, she is not one who could use you for her own purposes.  There does exist the possibility she is setting you up for a con game.  Time will tell.  Be cautious.
Ronnie
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Offline BC

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 09:06:15 PM »

I find it strange when talking about J's Orthodox beliefs you add that you are a "believer" but not really a Christian - and then you go on to claim "slight" beliefs in buddhism.  It's all a little confusing and probably representative of your lack of commitment either way, considering that confusion.

May I suggest (with respect) that you're not really a believer - of Christianity or Buddhism, possibly because you've not yet FOUND a comfortable place to be in - metaphorically speaking.


I don't find diverboy's statement represents lack of commitment at all..  He seems to enjoy concepts from multiple sources.  I'd call that being open minded.  Religion a' la carte.. quite ok.
'If it works, don't mess with it' comes to mind.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 09:30:07 PM »
I agree BC.  Committing to one religion or denomination is a terribly mind-closing action.
Ronnie
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Offline OlgaH

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 09:37:51 PM »
I don't find diverboy's statement represents lack of commitment at all..  He seems to enjoy concepts from multiple sources.  I'd call that being open minded.  Religion a' la carte.. quite ok.
'If it works, don't mess with it' comes to mind.


I would rather call it as religious syncretism  ;)

Offline BC

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 09:48:44 PM »
I would rather call it as religious syncretism  ;)

wow..  I had to look that one up.. learned something new today - Thanks Olga!

Offline DKMM

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 11:08:04 PM »
Commiting to a denomination (i.e. Catholic only) is mind closing but to a religion belief in general (Christianity) can be mind opening for some people... most western "Christians" are the a la carte types BC refers to, trying to take the good parts and leave behind the nonsense parts to varying degrees.

My girl is also hard core Orthodox and I'm still not sure how we will syncretize as Olga mentions.  But there are places for everyone as they say...

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 02:56:09 AM »
I think religion is specific to each individual.  My wife was only exposed to the orthodox faith during her youth.  She disagrees with a lot of what they do, but she will still cover her head and cross herself when entering and leaving and will light the approipriate candles and say the proscribed prayers.  She was exposed to the Seventh Day Adventists when she lived in St. Petersburg and was moving in that direction but certain events caused her to have reservtions about that faith.  We have a friend who is staunch Pentecostal and some aspects of that religion appeal to her.  I have my own religion and have introduced some concepts to her, but since I am not currentlyactive I haven't pushed that issue.  I sense that she seeks a faith that will meet her needs and understand that at some point this will become more of an issue, but for now I don't discourage her from exploring.  I know that I will never convert to another religion, but the need for her to be a member of my church is not something I worry about.  Of course if we were to have a child together this might become an issue, deciding in which faith the child was to be raised, but until such time as that occurs, religion is an individual decision, not one we will make as a couple. (at least for now)

Offline BC

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 03:32:45 AM »
Good post Scott.

Yes, is an individual thing..  not believing or 'Believing' without having to choose one way or another to express belief is quite ok.  If such thoughts were universal, the world would have been spared a great deal of misery.

I've always searched for the common principles that bind the many forms of celebrating belief.. that's what works for me regardless of the ceremony I may attend.

I guess we're observant, but usually go on the special occasions.  There seems to be enough of them  :D

Get to learn a bit of Slavonic on top of RU also..

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 03:50:15 AM »
I have no qualms about accompanying her to an Orthodox church and respecting the unique practices.  Respecting her religion does not mean that I am disrespecting my own, only that I am respecting her and her beliefs. One specific exception was at her grandmother's funeral.  Crossing one's self is not a part of my religion but was required at several points in the service.  I chose not to do this and no one questioned this. It was apparent to me that no one expected me to act contrary to my religion just as I wouldn't expect them to do the same.  I can only wish that such religious tolerance could be found in all individuals.

Offline BC

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 04:09:46 AM »
Yeah, the services are long too.. but many do not stay the whole while, or even wander in and out for a smoke or drink. No one stares or looks at you funny..  Yeah more of an 'individual' thing.  5 mins or 3 hours.. top up your tank and go.  Not having pews makes the coming and going quite normal.. 

I hate standing in pews holding a song book trying to lip sync and make the person next to me think I'm singing anyway.


Offline steviej

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 11:35:45 AM »
I guess she brings in some stability to my otherwise hectic and not so stable life :)
Good women have a way of doing that, don't they?   :)

She is ok with that but she also said she would have a big problem with a muslim or a atheist.

We should have a problem is Islam. Islam is no friend of ours. It has nothing to do with "I know many nice people that are Muslim."

I just feel that her beliefe gives her so much and at the same time it is giving me some kind of peace of mind of having her far away from me.

What are your wifes/GFs view of religion?

Many men all over the world go to church to make their wives happy.:) Women seem to be more in tune with a desire for spiritual expression. My feeling: indulge your wife. You love her, go to church if it makes her happy. It really doesn't matter what you believe.:) :) :)

Offline Taz

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 06:42:43 AM »
Reading this thread I can't help but think of the quote my Jesse Ventura (former Governor of the State of Minnesota). He said "Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers." So often people are indoctrinated and brain-washed into believing in a specific religion while a child. They are pretty much defenseless against the techniques that have been developed over centuries to suck them in.

So often all this crap was not to do what was best for the individual but what was best for the church. I can understand some of the dietary restrictions because those were because of the unsafe nature of food preparation that could contribute to disease. I would respect a lot more of the current religions out there if maybe they would go maybe "clean up" or remove traditions that make no sense. All too often churches have been far more corrupt than governments. The Catholic Church comes to mind.

I'd like to see a very strong separation between church and state in all countries. All too often religion has been used as a way to oppress people. As a result I have feelings towards most churches boardering on loathing. All too often what I saw when attending church is a place filled with hypocrites who only practiced what their religion preached while IN church and not outside. If people followed the tenets of their belief on a daily basis I would respect organized religion a lot more. I can't tolerate though the religious fanatics or zealots of any type. That probably goes for any type of fanatic, such as a WOVO.  ;D

I don't need to go to church to know how to treat people properly and with respect. I don't need the moral compass that religion provides for some people. I am not going to descend into anarchy because I don't go to church! If my women believes in some organized religion I'll support her but I don't plan on attending a lot.
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2008, 07:02:01 AM »
I can understand some of the dietary restrictions because those were because of the unsafe nature of food preparation that could contribute to disease.
Kashrut and halal made sense in a hot country with no fridges, and both include the draining of blood (the fastest decaying component) from butchered animals.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw[/youtube]
Quote
I would respect a lot more of the current religions out there if maybe they would go maybe "clean up" or remove traditions that make no sense.
In our colder climates, we've been eating pork products for millennia with little apparent harm.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 07:09:38 AM by SANDRO43 »
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Offline Blues Fairy

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2008, 07:34:15 AM »
I don't need to go to church to know how to treat people properly and with respect. I don't need the moral compass that religion provides for some people. I am not going to descend into anarchy because I don't go to church!


Wait till the crusaders from the "When it is OK to ask RW to change her religion" thread arrive and teach you a thing or two about the immorality of the atheists.  :P

Offline diverboy70

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2008, 08:37:54 AM »
BF I just read through that post, and I would also say that you never should ask somebody to convert, if it is so important you should search for somebody that allready has the same religion as you. If they convert just for you, how much is that faith in your religion worth?

Religion is such an important and personal thing for many people. I respect people of all religions but would never "convert" to any specific religion.

I am quite happy with picking pieces from different religions that makes scences to me. I know I could never "buy the whole concept" of one specific religion. I try to be honest to myself in my belief, and that means I just can't adhere to one specific religion.


Offline Ronnie

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2008, 11:34:49 AM »
Reading this thread I can't help but think of the quote my Jesse Ventura (former Governor of the State of Minnesota). He said "Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

LOL... Jesse Ventura...certainly qualifies as an expert on weak-mindedness! 

I'd like to see a very strong separation between church and state in all countries. All too often religion has been used as a way to oppress people. As a result I have feelings towards most churches boardering on loathing.
I

Amen to that brother!  Unfortunately, what is also needed is a separation between church and the creator aka God.  Churches claim to hold title on all things related to God.  What a shame.  Our founding fathers were predominately Deists - strong understanding of the hand of a creator and faith in same, but not subscribing to any particular religion. 

A separation between God and State is not what the founding fathers had in mind but the concept has been muddled of late.

I don't need to go to church to know how to treat people properly and with respect. I don't need the moral compass that religion provides for some people. I am not going to descend into anarchy because I don't go to church! If my women believes in some organized religion I'll support her but I don't plan on attending a lot.

In fact, when you stop going to church but focus on treating people properly is when you become, dare I say it?  A true Christian, Buddhist or whatever.  Church services often have the effect of taking one's eye off the ball.  Feeling good because you attended services replaces feeling good because you helped someone with no expectation of reciprocity.



Wait till the crusaders from the "When it is OK to ask RW to change her religion" thread arrive and teach you a thing or two about the immorality of the atheists.  :P

Uhhh...you rang, Blues Fairy? 

Atheists like Bluesie use the abuses and absurdities of religion as a reason to be an atheist not realizing they have placed before themselves a false choice (see comment above about separation of religion and God).  Darwinism is their "crutch." They defend the absurdities of Darwinian theory with no less zeal than the religious fanatic, and completely turn a blind eye to the gaping holes in their theories about the origin of life.

As to what is best or worst for society..  Organized religion has, without argument, done much harm and brought misery, torture and death to millions.  Atheism, though folks like Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler (raised Catholic but converted to atheism), has been a factor in many more atrocities.  In all the history of human misery and suffering, where has the Deist been responsible?  (I recognize there are those who hold Abraham Lincoln to have been responsible for the civil war in the states but I'm not sure that's true, nor do we know much about Lincoln's faith or lack thereof).

"If God doesn't exist, everything is permissible"
                                           -Fyodor Dostoevsky



« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 12:05:36 PM by Ronnie »
Ronnie
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Offline DKMM

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 11:53:35 AM »
Russian Orthodoxy hasn't created much suffering or murder in history has it?  They didn't have crusades, or inquisitions.   The more I learn about it, the more I'm open to "converting" to it. :angel:

Offline BC

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2008, 02:23:29 PM »
Russian Orthodoxy hasn't created much suffering or murder in history has it?  They didn't have crusades, or inquisitions.   The more I learn about it, the more I'm open to "converting" to it. :angel:

A good read on the subject you raised: http://incommunion.org/articles/previous-issues/no-just-war-in-the-fathers

After attending a few ceremonies and talking to the priest and doing some independent research I had no great qualms at all about converting.. or rather joining as I never before really committed myself to one or the other before, basically observing many forms of expressing belief, picking here and there what seemed reasonable.

Some very brief observations and my experience:

I don't feel 'preached at' at the services.. in fact most of the time you only see the back of the priest. The content of the services is quite predictable and repetitive.  Popping in or even out in the middle of services seems understandable. You get to know what went before or comes afterwards so can participate without feeling lost and can even continue on your drive home.

The priest openly admitted that the ceremonies are complex, but that doing what you feel like doing, whether it be lighting candles, kissing the icons and other gestures involved etc or even none of the above is quite ok.  He encouraged reading about Orthodoxy, from any and all sources and assured me that the content would be quite the same - and I found it so.

He is a pediatrician at the hospital of a neighboring town and married so has somehow reconciled science with religion without conflict and I would feel comfortable talking to him about marital problems and he would understand.

I am still just a newbie but have found interesting and enlightening aspects, one of which is that it is part of the oldest branch of Christianity, concentrating on doing things as they were first done (or as close as possible), not untouched by human hand but with as little change as possible.

I think I mentioned in another thread (global warming of all things) that if folks would concentrate on the common aspects of the various forms of expressing belief rather than differences, the world would be a bit better off today.  Orthodoxy seems to fulfill that requirement, for me anyway by sticking to the basics, which represents most of what is common anyway.

Thinking about it, if my wife were to dump me tomorrow I would lose materially, but would have gained spiritually, in the end a net gain.

Enough rant.. lets just say that my wife opened my eyes in may unforeseen ways.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 02:26:05 PM by BC »

Offline DKMM

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2008, 05:50:18 PM »
Yeah its things like this link that keep making sense to me.  So in Orthodoxy, war is never justified but sometimes necessary as the lesser of two bad things.  Not strictly pacifist but never justifying an aggressive war.  Not 100% in line with Russia's expansionist history but I don't recall those being religious wars in nature (although their enemies were either catholic or muslim.  Not many examples of orthodox fighting orthodox compared to other world religious branches.

Offline steviej

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2008, 08:49:28 PM »
.. Our founding fathers were predominately Deists - strong understanding of the hand of a creator and faith in same, but not subscribing to any particular religion. 

A separation between God and State is not what the founding fathers had in mind but the concept has been muddled of late.

A wiser group of men was rarely ever assembled.

Atheists like Bluesie use the abuses and absurdities of religion as a reason to be an atheist not realizing they have placed before themselves a false choice (see comment above about separation of religion and God).  Darwinism is their "crutch." They defend the absurdities of Darwinian theory with no less zeal than the religious fanatic, and completely turn a blind eye to the gaping holes in their theories about the origin of life.

There are fanatic theists and fanatic athiests. Each presumes to know  more than I think can be known. However, I disagree that Darwinism is a crutch. The theory of evolution is another staggering achievement of the human intellect to engage the world around it, and seek to understand it. I believe that God gave me a brain with the intent that I use it. Like all great theories in the many disciplines of study, evolution is subject to continued analysis, experimental verification, and revision. Like most great theories, each in the end is understood to be but yet another step forward in the quest for knowledge and understanding.


Offline Blues Fairy

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Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2008, 09:10:04 PM »
Atheism, though folks like Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler (raised Catholic but converted to atheism), has been a factor in many more atrocities.  In all the history of human misery and suffering, where has the Deist been responsible? 

Yeah, yeah.  Since you seem to equate atheism and immorality, will you insist that I am immoral by definition, since I am an atheist?

Offline Taz

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  • Carpe diem...before it seizes you!
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Is your woman religious?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2008, 09:17:48 PM »
Not really a great leap to go from abortion to mass murder...

To an abortionist or dictator, life apparently has little value. From the woman's "It's my body and I can do what I want with it" to the dictator "It's my country I can do what I want with it" I see little difference in the way they each value life. Each thinks they are "entitled" to do what they want because it is "theirs" without much regard for others that might be involved (or should be).

This isn't to say all atheists are bad and all Christiains/Muslims/(Insert religion of your choice here are good). While I follow no organized religion I do have a spiritual belief of sorts. This came to me when I died on the operating room table and came back to life. Before that I had no real belief in a something greater than our existence. Some of my closest friends are atheists so I have no bias against that viewpoint.
Take time to learn the language. Even a little can go a long ways...

Get off your butt and go! Don't make excuses why you can't do it, find a way to make it work! Always go with a backup plan too!!!

 

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