Russian Temperment

[Shadow]

You may not have meant to say that, but she is not telepathic; none of RW are. 

But the men should be 

Charlie you just made a beginners mistake. You allowed yourself to react in anger while in an argument. That might be normal to you, but you were expected to take the heat, back off a bit and then talk about what exactly happened.
By your attitude you destroyed most if not all of what you had going. Just look at how you reacted to Blues Fairy, when all she did was point out your mistakes in the argument.
You do not have to be a doormat, but if you can not disagree with someone without telling you do no longer want to pursue her, I am not sure if RW are the right choice.

[charlie2008]

But the men should be 

Charlie you just made a beginners mistake. You allowed yourself to react in anger while in an argument. That might be normal to you, but you were expected to take the heat, back off a bit and then talk about what exactly happened.
By your attitude you destroyed most if not all of what you had going. Just look at how you reacted to Blues Fairy, when all she did was point out your mistakes in the argument.
You do not have to be a doormat, but if you can not disagree with someone without telling you do no longer want to pursue her, I am not sure if RW are the right choice.

Honestly, after the ripping I recieved from her, I couldnt see her wanting to pursue anything further.  I just didnt know what to do... As a bodybuilder, I get the looks, respect, you name it. I mean people move the hell out of the way when they pass me.  I pretty much call the shots in any given situation. So when I got this reaming from her I was like well, screw this!!! Your right, my pride couldnt take the heat I suppose, but I have learned alot in coming here. The people that I have attacked have been the ones who have actually helped me the most. I have taken Blues Fairy's advice and made a reconciliation attempt.  She is worth more to me than any amount of foolish pride that I may HAVE HAD.  And yes, if this doesn't work out then I will most likely stay within my own boundries in the laidies department.  Thank you 

[charlie2008]

Charlie,

what was exactly that comments  about where you were referring to troubles in her head? 

I just don't want to make my hasty conclusion. 

I was referring to what she may be thinking in her head and feeling in her heart.  Now I should have put it to her just like I worded it to you and things may have been fine.  But here is what I said word for word. " All that I can do now is be the best person that I can possible be to you, but when it comes to the troubles in your head and in your heart, I can do nothing''. I know now that is sounds cold, but honestly that was not my intention at all!!! 

[Shadow]

When you can get over your pride, you might actually enjoy someone that will not be impressed by your looks and muscles and tells you the plain truth. For that you will be right in searching any RW.
If you get in a similar discussion, leave out the head part.

[steviej]

Looks like slender Russian beauty brought 240lbs of muscle down onto to mat ! 

Welcome to the FSU Charlie !! 

And, also, best of luck, seriously. Make sure you read the 10 commandments. And don't start the K-1 on your first visit !!      

[charlie2008]

Looks like slender Russian beauty brought 240lbs of muscle down onto to mat ! 

Welcome to the FSU Charlie !! 

And, also, best of luck, seriously. Make sure you read the 10 commandments. And don't start the K-1 on your first visit !!      

She damn sure did bro, but I got up on the 9 count. She accepted my reconciliation. Things arent like they were of course, but they are slowly getting back to normal. Thanks for the welcome

[OlgaH]

I was referring to what she may be thinking in her head and feeling in her heart.  Now I should have put it to her just like I worded it to you and things may have been fine.  But here is what I said word for word. " All that I can do now is be the best person that I can possible be to you, but when it comes to the troubles in your head and in your heart, I can do nothing''. I know now that is sounds cold, but honestly that was not my intention at all!!! 

I would not say it sounds cold, but I would add "...I can do nothing if you will not or don't want to share your troubles with me" 

I think it was a misunderstanding. Misunderstandings happen even between people who speak same language, and resolving the misunderstandings depends  on people, their ability and readiness to accept the explanations, to give the explanations, and their willingness to understand and to be understood. 

     

[mark2353]

Charlie,
Welcome and it has been truly a pleasure watching the "exchange between you and BF". 
I think you better tone down. Most important lesson I learn about life was in a scuba diving class. "Stop, Think, React!".  Anyway I am glad you were able to put the pride away and listen to BF, she is a brilliant lady. 
I very happy you were able to recover!!best of luck!!
Welcome!
mark

[charlie2008]

I would not say it sounds cold, but I would add "...I can do nothing if you will not or don't want to share your troubles with me" 

I think it was a misunderstanding. Misunderstandings happen even between people who speak same language, and resolving the misunderstandings depends  on people, their ability and readiness to accept the explanations, to give the explanations, and their willingness to understand and to be understood. 

     

Well, I spoke with her tonight, and we didn't anywhere near that topic YET....  Normally ( if you know anything about YM) I would get these little smileys at the end of our conversation. One with a kiss, one with a hug, and another whatever... tonight I got a smile, a wink, and a wave, but I'll take it,lol.  At least we are communicating again and thats whats important. Because I know she didn't have too. Thank you, I'll try to pay more attention to how I word things.

[OlgaH]

  At least we are communicating again and thats whats important. Because I know she didn't have too. Thank you, I'll try to pay more attention to how I word things.

It is a good news that you both came to a problem resolution. 

BTW has she apologized (even indirectly  ) for the misunderstanding from her side,  or she still thinks that you were trying to offend her? Probably there will be another  misunderstandings, nobody is insured against them. It is not easy to be always in a guilty position. How often you will be able to take her reminding about her "old" American friend...

Yes you should pay attention to how you word things, but also to her reaction   

  I blamed it on a communication errror, but she wasnt having it at all!!! She reminded me of an American friend that she has had ofr 6 years and although they disagree, her never offends her. 

In any case I wish you both a successful relationship development 

[charlie2008]

It is a good news that you both came to a problem resolution. 

BTW has she apologized (even indirectly  ) for the misunderstanding from her side,  or she still thinks that you were trying to offend her? Probably there will be another  misunderstandings, nobody is insured against them. It is not easy to be always in a guilty position. How often you will be able to take her reminding about her "old" American friend...

Yes you should pay attention to how you word things, but also to her reaction   

In any case I wish you both a successful relationship development 

I told her once that I was concerned that she might not understand me at times and thats how I found out about the "old friend". She was letting me know she had experience in communication over here.  As for the apology, i didnt get one, and the topic was never discussed, but she did ask me for some help in a certain area which I believe could be some form of truce.  Some do work in that way, but who knows really. I'm just happy to be communicating again.

[DKMM]

Dude,

There will be many times when she gets the wrong meaning from your words.  Its crucial you learn how to handle that correctly.  Meeting her emotional fury with your own is NOT the right way.  Try to imagine yourself as her parent in this case.  You would calmly tell her she simply has the wrong meaning and then try to explain to her what you really meant.  She may fire back some more but you have to not let it get to you or she will use this over and over.

If she really can't understand you and always assumes the worst (happens more often in insecure women) then forget it, she's not international dating material.  It takes more than just her wanting to be with you to really make it work.  It took me several RW to master this so I say good luck with this one and I hope you do better with the next girl. 

[IAmZon]

Blues, Groove, and DKMM have all posted true statements.  Additionally, I would emphasize that you probably will have to learn and change - alot.

In the US, our communication is full of hundreds of behavior techniques that don't translate well - or worse they translate at the man's expense.  Blatant withdrawal is one.

Subtle advise you have received such as TAKE CHARGE.  BE DELIBERATE. BE HONEST.  BE STRONG.  In the US, these loose their full meaning.  You may not be hearing these comments in black and white.  YOU SHOULD.  There are no "shades of gray" here.  Consistency  AND Clear mindedness is more important  than income and a good credit score (and much more rare).

Enjoy your experiences and be fore warned - the little pretty girls are likely as smart as you, and probably stronger too.

[catzenmouse]

Enjoy your experiences and be fore warned - the little pretty girls are likely as smart as you, and probably stronger too.

I'd say the statement bolded above is a very large understatement. A truer statement would be that they are "likely much smarter than you" as in my experience a very high percentage (90+) of the ones I've interacted with are well read, well educated, and well versed in a much tougher life than we have been.

Patience, flexibility and understanding are the most important things to carry around with you at all times in this endeavor. You may believe that have all these traits but just ask any married man here and you will learn that each one has learned a new level (or 10) of each and every one of these things on the road to getting where they are today.

FWIW

[Gator]

Charlie,

It is good that the two of you are communicating again; however, your last post indicates that you have not yet learned all of BF’s lesson:

As for the apology, i didnt get one...

Do not expect an apology, and certainly do not ask for one. 

If the problem is miscommunication, both of you are to blame.  Based on who said what, I think you are most to blame, and I guarantee she thinks it is your fault.  However, don’t apologize to her because this particular issue needs to die. 

and the topic was never discussed...

It is not important to discuss it, so why discuss it.  FORGET about it (i. e., never, never mention it).  If it inadvertently emerges in some distant conversation, there is a 98% chance that it will anger her.

She told you what she appreciated about her male American friend (from your initial post):

She reminded me of an American friend that she has had ofr 6 years and although they disagree, her never offends her.

Be that type of man. Concentrate on being a better communicator.  Give her the benefit of the doubt.  Do not offend her - treat her as a sweet woman even if she angers you.

RW are direct and blunt.  It is a cultural quirk, and I relish it now that I have thicker skin.  Frankly, I find it far better than my typical past relationships in which I knew something was bothering an AW but did not know what it was, its source or what could be done about it. 

Is the RW bluntness something you could learn to appreciate?  With that comes some trying moments that will give you blisters.  Yet, you will develop calluses if you keep working at it.  There are many other RW quirks, so brace yourself.

Good luck.

[charlie2008]

Gator,

I agree in that that particular topic needs to die. I was simply answering a question as to wheather or not I had recieved one.  As for the bluntness, I prefer it actually. Although tough to swallow sometimes, you difinatley know where you stand at all times.  Iv'e taken a beating in here as you well know, but rightly deserve it. BF stood her ground and I stood mine until I finally realized that I didn't have an argument at all.  I would much rather earn my battle scares in here than go back out there and totally destroy everything that is important to me.  Advice well taken, and thank you.

[BC]

Although my wife's english skills were quite good, even very good, we did miscommunicate.  Sometimes the meaning just doesn't translate well (or you even goof by overstepping)  Two way street.

After the first few rounds of needless argument or seemingly hurt ego's, we discussed that miscommunication was inevitable from time to time in any relationship, and decided to use a 'safe word' that when invoked by either party , the conversation would immediately stop, we'd take a quick break, get a cup of coffee and clarify what was actually meant.

FWIW it has worked well over the years.  Haven't used our safeword in a long time now, even can't remember the last time, but it remains available anytime we get out of sync.

[OlgaH]

Dude,

There will be many times when she gets the wrong meaning from your words.  Its crucial you learn how to handle that correctly.  Meeting her emotional fury with your own is NOT the right way.  You would calmly tell her she simply has the wrong meaning and then try to explain to her what you really meant.  She may fire back some more but you have to not let it get to you or she will use this over and over.

That is true IMO.

Looking for a life partner we are guided by our life values and expect to meet a person who share our values. When you see that something is wrong and doesn't meet your requirements don't jump  right away into firm conclusion, make a notice and pay your attention to that "wrong things" later on, but don't justify that "some wrong things" nor by "national peculiarities" nor by other circumstances, stepping over your values. There also can be the cases when you should make you firm conclusion and even go away, when "the wrong things" are absolutely unacceptable to you.

If a such situation when you both can not step over your pride admitting your mistakes and to say "I'm sorry" is not important,  works for you both, then you probably will be able to go happily through your life together. But if you are able to admit your fault and you value the phrase "I'm sorry" as an ability to understand the feelings of other person and as a sensitivity to the person's feelings, then you will find the pride of your partner and your partners' inability to understand your feelings to be difficult to live with.

For the sake of love you can totally adjust yourself to your partner, you can dissolve your personality in a personality of your partner,  you can accept a game of your partner as "my ex never did this and never told me this and so on", and you can change yourself into something or somebody what your partner want to see in you, , but not to be yourself, you can step over your life values and let your partner to use you consciously or not.  But before to jump into it think well how long you will be able to bear your position "being used" and being "nothing or something".

Life is not all beer and skittles and the life together will demand from both of you the ability to work together overcoming all the obstacles that you will meet, and you will meet the obstacles, because even if both of you value the same things in life you are still two unique personalities.

Therefore you should not to be afraid to discuss any topic that concerns your life, and even relationship with your exes (why it did not work), and there should be normal and healthy reaction on such topics, because you both want to understand each other, to know what you expect from each other living together and you both don't want to repeat the same mistakes that were done in the past.

       

 

[charlie2008]

There was discussion (at least on my part) in the reconciling where I had acknowledged her feelings (offline) But when we did chat again there was no talk of our conflict, and I dont feel there should have been.  Now, Make no mistake, I would never mold myself into ones personality for the sake of getting along or staying together. Its just not who I am, and that can be seen through my posts.  If anything, we are just two strong willed people who butt heads, and thats ok as long as the other knows this.  I WILL admitt when I'm wrong,and I think I was wrong in this particular argument, so letting it slide would be in my best interest i think, especially at this early point.  We are both very smart people, and I think that both of us will be careful in how we deal with each other in the future without rehashing it all.  I'm a big boy,and I can promise you I will not be led around like a puppy by anyone. It's just not in me.  I just recieved a IM from her wishing me a great day. Looks like a good restart so far.

[OlgaH]

But when we did chat again there was no talk of our conflict, and I dont feel there should have been. 

If you both feel that you don't need to discuss a conflict that happened between both of you, probably you both have understood your positions, positions of each other in the conflict and everyone has admitted his/her own fault. But if the same conflict will be repeated again in the future you will need to discuss it to find a "root" of that conflict - a cause, to resolve it.   

[charlie2008]

Agreed

[steviej]

To be devil's advocate for a moment, while early in a relationship letting things slide may work (afterall, we can assume we just miscommunicated and we don't have a strong base built to resolve anything at a deeper level) I do not recommend it as things get more serious, or for the long term. I think the little "hurts" and "offenses" , if ignored, have a convenient way of building up over time, one brick at a time, until one day, there is a wall and either or both parties are wondering "why doesn't it feel like we are close anymore like we used to be .." [I think Olga is saying something similar to this]

One thing I noticed with my Ulyana in the beginning was that the idea of resolving, rather than ignoring, little conflicts of feelings, was alien to her. I think this is true of most Russians initially. The concept of "I'm sorry" is taken more like defeat in Russia, I believe, and I don't think it translates or means they way we take it in the US. (Actually, if anything we overuse it in the US to the point where our false empathy and humility can suck the real meaning out of the word too.)

Being "offended" seems to be an accepted way of responding to things in Russia to express that which, at its core in intimate relations, is hurt feelings. In dealing with the bureaucrat or sales person, being offended is probably OK. In intimate relations in the long term it is better to learn how to admit and express that something has hurt your feelings (not an easy thing to do for most, by the way). I think love depends on a healthy diet of understanding and empathy of the true inner feelings of the one we love, and the same in return to us from the one that loves us.

Understanding, empathy, and caring are different than ignoring. While ignoring is often the most easy tactical response to a situation, in the long term there can be a slow toxic build up in intimate relations.

[Thank you Father Steve !!   ]

Final thought: If your woman is "blowing up" at you once a week about something, that might be a red flag ....

[charlie2008]

Right!!! We just don't have that base yet...  But if there comes a time where I find myself in this situation again.  I'll surley deal with it from a totally different angle. 

[Blues Fairy]

The concept of "I'm sorry" is taken more like defeat in Russia...  
Being "offended" seems to be an accepted way of responding to things in Russia to express that which, at its core in intimate relations, is hurt feelings.

I was just thinking the same thing - it's amazing how many members here have described their wives as quick to take offense and reluctant to admit their own mistakes.  Perhaps it's something about the Russian notion of chivalry, where man is always expected to accept responsibility for the conflict and behave more adult than the woman.  I don't think it's the right strategy however.  If the lady shows a stable tendency to lay guilt trips and seems to enjoy it, it may be a very dangerous thing.  

[Gator]

Stevie and Blues Fairy,

Please help me understand (I certainly don't want to be involved in miscommunication).

Charlie and his woman had a misunderstanding and subsequent words created a wound.

The wound has healed, yet leaving a scab (not a scar).


Are you suggesting that Charlie should pick off the scab?

Or,

Let this episode slide, and continue to communicate, observing if his woman repeats this behavior with new issues - never seeing two sides, never giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt, never taking responsibility for what she may have contributed to the problem, never saying "Sorry, I misunderstood", and requiring Charlie to turn the other cheek again and again?

I trust it is the latter because scab picking is not good IMO.  If her true nature is as in my latter choice, ol' Charlie will soon move to another woman.

BTW, the latter describes my Cossack fiancee.  I married someone else, someone who is committed  to making sure all almost all disagreements conclude productively.  The Cossack would make up her mind about something bad she thought I did (usually a misunderstanding) and never change her mind, even after a complete reexamination.  I projected into the future and said "No way"  regardless of her attributes.

BTW Charlie, how did you get introduced to this woman?  Also, are you communicating mostly by phone?  Have you discussed the possibility of a meeting?  It seems that you are getting more attached to this woman than you should for only two weeks of YM.  I think you should ask your correspondent why she never hooked up with the American.  That should raise a lot of questions.