Russian Temperment

[Blues Fairy]

Charlie and his woman had a misunderstanding and subsequent words created a wound.  The wound has healed, yet leaving a scab (not a scar).
Are you suggesting that Charlie should pick off the scab?

Or,

Let this episode slide, and continue to communicate, observing if his woman repeats this behavior with new issues - never seeing two sides, never giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt, never taking responsibility for what she may have contributed to the problem, never saying "Sorry, I misunderstood", and requiring Charlie to turn the other cheek again and again?

Gator,

It's the latter, of course.

[Jumper]

BTW Charlie, how did you get introduced to this woman?  Also, are you communicating mostly by phone?  Have you discussed the possibility of a meeting?  It seems that you are getting more attached to this woman than you should for only two weeks of YM.  I think you should ask your correspondent why she never hooked up with the American.  That should raise a lot of questions.

lol ! Gator is getting crusty with his time in marriage..
took him 5 years to pull the trigger, but only a few minths to be a true OMB.

anyway - i'm glad i'm not the only OMB that felt a little emotional overinvestment  by charlie to someone he has never met.and only YM chatted with?


Charlie, kudos for taking the cluebats fom RW here well.

they tend to be blunt,,but as expected are going to be pretty much
spot on when it comes to RW..LOL
and equally obvious, the guys that can't get past thier words, or style of advise ,are not good candidates to marry one!

As far as yoiur YM chat friend,at this point thats all it is,,
and i'd be careful not to get over drawn into things when you havnt met (but that's me)

If Gator (or myself) had offended you in YM chat or chewed you out,over a simple misunderstanding , its doubtful youd be on any forum with it,or even YM chat with him again.

So at the very least recognize you are fairly invested in this person, that you dont know, and really have no real reason to care about resolving *anything*.

She's interesting enough to you, to try and resolve things, and you had backed her and yourself into a corner about it.

Glad things smoothed over,as miscommunication is ineviatible-
but i'd keep in mind not to overlook, or make excuses for ,
anyones overrection or behaviour, 
 that you wouldn't if it was someone less "cute" like myself  or Gator.

Often a mans (or womans) big  weakness,
is putting up with behaviour from a romatic interest ,that they  would never tolarate from a more plutonic  friend?

[BC]

I was just thinking the same thing - it's amazing how many members here have described their wives as quick to take offense and reluctant to admit their own mistakes.  Perhaps it's something about the Russian notion of chivalry, where man is always expected to accept responsibility for the conflict and behave more adult than the woman.  I don't think it's the right strategy however.  If the lady shows a stable tendency to lay guilt trips and seems to enjoy it, it may be a very dangerous thing.  

In our marriage, I have found that what is not said can carry more weight than what is said. A point can be made without verbalization and escalation, often more effectively so.

You are 100% correct that repeat situations should be thoroughly discussed.. but they rarely get that far, if ever.  Two people that 'know' each other will understand each other with or without words. (no not an endorsement for marrying a woman you cannot communicate well with in the first place).

I was just going through some old posts of mine and found the following one:

It's sorta like asking 'Do you love me?'..  If I asked my wife this as a serious question she would answer: Why are you asking such a stupid question?...  We use such questions a bit 'light' here... like when I want a cup of coffee or when she wants to go shopping..

I can't count how many times this question was posed in my relationships with WW (western women), either by myself or by my mate..  Looking back, the question was often simply a method of seeking affirmation - with insincere responses.

Which is better?

[steviej]

Stevie and Blues Fairy,

Are you suggesting that Charlie should pick off the scab?

Or,

Let this episode slide, and continue to communicate, observing if his woman repeats this behavior with new issues - never seeing two sides, never giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt, never taking responsibility for what she may have contributed to the problem, never saying "Sorry, I misunderstood", and requiring Charlie to turn the other cheek again and again?

Ditto with BF - the second. It's waaayyy tooo soon to be worryinb about scabs. Like you said, its 2 weeks YM and a photo. Don't get over-invested in that.

[steviej]

... what is not said can carry more weight than what is said. A point can be made without verbalization and escalation, often more effectively so ...

While different couples have different communication styles, as long as its effective its OK. However, most couples need to improve their verbal communication, especially about things related to sensitive feelings. If a random couple stopped me and asked me, "Steve, is it more important to have non-verbal communication or verbal communication?" I would strenuously emphasize the importance of verbal communication. FWIW ...

[BC]

While different couples have different communication styles, as long as its effective its OK. However, most couples need to improve their verbal communication, especially about things related to sensitive feelings. If a random couple stopped me and asked me, "Steve, is it more important to have non-verbal communication or verbal communication?" I would strenuously emphasize the importance of verbal communication. FWIW ...

Steve,

I have found that there is very little reason or purpose in restating the obvious over and over again.

The first hint of such for me was watching my wife talking to her mother on the phone for the first time.  When the conversation was finished it seemed like she hung up in mid conversation.. was like 'tak' and hung up. It was a little disconcerting. No long winded closings I was used to here in the west and esp Italy where three ciao's are involved rapid fire.. maybe more and the conversation starts up again from the beginning. 

I'm all for communications, the more the better but have learned to enjoy directness, efficiency and honesty when communicating..   

When it comes to apologies and souch, the way I've seen those I have met in RU handle such is somewhat similar to some quite effective child rearing techniques.

Let's say a you find candy wrappers all over the house.. A child negating having eaten the candy is quite normal.. but is it really necessary to berate continuously until a very frustrated, insincere and weak 'ok ok.. I'm sorry' eeks out?  Surely not as the child at that point places greater weight on getting out of trouble than thinking about the actions that caused trouble in the first place.- there are other ways to handle it..

It's not what is said that counts, it is what is felt.  Of course we're talking adults here but the proverbial interaction:

AM rolling eyes: 'Yeah I know.. it's always my fault right?'
RW smiling: 'Of course!'
AM grins at the expected reaction
RW meekly grins at the AM, fully understanding that she screwed things up royally.

What more is really necessary?  It's already a win/win deal.

[steviej]

... I'm all for communications, the more the better but have learned to enjoy directness, efficiency and honesty when communicating ...

Agreed. Words can certainly be used to obfuscate as well as enlighten.

[charlie2008]

Gator

I could start a whole new thread as to how I met her, and thats just not gonna happen,lol. But I met her in chat for the most part. I have mentioned calling her before, but she (and I) both agreed that out current way of communication was fine for now. Which I see nothing wrong with that being it has been only two weeks of communication.  I have had several video conferences with her so I do know EXACTLY who I'm talking to.  We did discuss a possible meeting and she is fine with that as well. She said " I think you worry much about coming here" and tried to reassure me that she would help me apon my arrival. I do know that she has known this "old friend" for several years, but I'm just not really concerned with why they are not together.  There are just too many variables to consider, but if he comes up again I may through it out there. Now, its true that i am taking a big interest in the woman. one, I would be lying if is said different, and two, you would know it.  If I were chatting with someone over here I would think nothing of it.  It IS exciting, the whole two different world communication thing, but she is very interesting, and I like her very much from what I know about her up to this point.

I had a very long chat last night. I have to say it was by far the best we have had to this date. We did however, wind up in a playful game of "battle of the witts" (not sure if thats correct) and she won that round.  She was kicking my *** in my own language with her broken english.  Now I could have taken the round with my usual arrogance, but I kept referring to these pages in my mind, and it has served me well to do so.  There were a couple times where both her and I had concerns about understanding one another, and each would say " i hope you understand or do you understand."  We are both aware of our last ordeal, and mindful to see that it doesn't happen again without further discussion of the matter.  So, I'm very glad that I kept these four pages in mind because if I had not, I would have so easily offended her just for the victory of our playful discussion, and blown it all to hell AGAIN. 

   

[steviej]

... I met her in chat for the most part. I have mentioned calling her before, but she (and I) both agreed that out current way of communication was fine for now.

I think after 2 weeks you need to get on the phone. The emotional tone you can hear on the telephone is very important. Much more revealing than chat.

... Now, its true that i am taking a big interest in the woman. one, I would be lying if is said different, and two, you would know it.  If I were chatting with someone over here I would think nothing of it.  It IS exciting, the whole two different world communication thing, but she is very interesting, and I like her very much from what I know about her up to this point.

It's good to admit it and be aware of it. The beginning of a possible romance with one of the wonderful exotic FSU creatures is indeed very exciting - nothing like it. I'm willing to be you think she is beautiful, yes ?? 

I had a very long chat last night. I have to say it was by far the best we have had to this date. We did however, wind up in a playful game of "battle of the witts" (not sure if thats correct) and she won that round.  She was kicking my *** in my own language with her broken english.

My experience - Russian women, in general, are very intelligent. If you don't like intelligent women, don't go FSU. It seems like you do , so that's good. I recommend not to make a battle or a control issue out of it - enjoy it !! Intelligent women make the best companions (all other things being equal, that is) in the long run. My wife is my most interesting and fun companion. I mean, if I've got some time off, who do I want to call and spend it with? My wife. Can't get better than that, and its one of the special things about RWs, IMHO.

Good luck with it, Charlie. I do think you need to get on the phone, though.

[charlie2008]

Stevie,

Yes, I do think she is very beautiful...  She's not very tall and she has more of a smooth shape to her, rather than a well defined look.  People here at home at least would think that I would go for just the opposite, but like I said, she's smart, funny, and extremly attractive.

[OlgaH]

If you don't like intelligent women, don't go FSU.

Why? There is plenty of women who are not intelligent but they are very smart about house holding and have a so called worldly wisdom 

[steviej]

Why? There is plenty of women who are not intelligent but they are very smart about house holding and have a so called worldly wisdom 

Reminds me there was some discussion about the difference between intelligent and smart. Most Russian women seem to have a good bit of all of it ... LOL

Olga, you are a walking example ...      

[steviej]

Stevie,

Yes, I do think she is very beautiful...  She's not very tall and she has more of a smooth shape to her, rather than a well defined look.  People here at home at least would think that I would go for just the opposite, but like I said, she's smart, funny, and extremly attractive.

Smooth shape? ... Nice  It seems I see a lot of body builder guys with body builder girls. Is that true? For myself, I like my women a little of the softer side    Perhaps you too??

[charlie2008]

I think what a lot of it is, is the lifestyle.  If your partner isn't understanding to your nutritional needs and requirements and your time in the gym, your gonna have problems. And that greasy cheese burger she may want to go out for, or that sugar filled chocolate cake she made for you, and she doesn't understand why you won't touch it, could hurt her feelings at the very least.  It's a very diciplined lifestyle, so having someone who is health conscious is a plus. 

I don't have just "one" type of look that I prefer. It just depends on the woman, and "smooth" on her works perfect.

[Gator]

Why? There is plenty of women who are not intelligent but they are very smart about house holding and have a so called worldly wisdom 

Reminds me of something I read in a book of quotes.  The words of an Eastern European beauty of years gone by, Zsa Zsa Gabor, who married and divorced many, many times:

I'm a great housekeeper. I get divorced. I keep the house. 

She was married many, many times.  Zsa Zsa had other notable quotes:

A man in love is incomplete until he is married. Then he's finished.

I want a man who's kind and understanding. Is that too much to ask of a millionaire?

[OlgaH]

Reminds me of something I read in a book of quotes.  The words of an Eastern European beauty of years gone by, Zsa Zsa Gabor, who married and divorced many, many times:
 

She was married many, many times.  Zsa Zsa had other notable quotes:

I'm a great housekeeper. I get divorced. I keep the house.
A man in love is incomplete until he is married. Then he's finished.
I want a man who's kind and understanding. Is that too much to ask of a millionaire?

Everyone has his/her own worldly wisdom that serves for a main life needs, and of course everyone has his/her own life needs 

[BC]

I think what a lot of it is, is the lifestyle.  If your partner isn't understanding to your nutritional needs and requirements and your time in the gym, your gonna have problems. And that greasy cheese burger she may want to go out for, or that sugar filled chocolate cake she made for you, and she doesn't understand why you won't touch it, could hurt her feelings at the very least.  It's a very diciplined lifestyle, so having someone who is health conscious is a plus. 

'Who is health concious is a plus..' hmm...The way you describe it someone that already follows such a lifestyle is a necessity.. I can't imagine someone at the table watching me eat frowning and telling me this or that about it.

Borscht, tongue, salt fish, salo, fatty meats, rabit, duck, anything that comes from the sea and a host of other things barely identifiable land on our table quite often..  all quite tasty and healthy. My wife loves cooking and meals are a good part of our life together.  I also cook fairly often, mostly grilled meats but also snailsThe reward of a good cook is the reactions of those who eat.. I don't think we could live happily together if our likes and dislikes in this area weren't common.

[charlie2008]

Absolutley not... Its not a necessity at all. I am simply answering the question as to why bodybuilders may hook up together.  The whole "you never spend enough time with me" is never an issue.  Eating habits are pretty close because they are both working towards the same goal, and they simply want a mate to look equally attractive and fit.  I personally could care less one way or the other, as long as the understanding is there that hey, this is what I do. 

[steviej]

Absolutley not... Its not a necessity at all. I am simply answering the question as to why bodybuilders may hook up together.  The whole "you never spend enough time with me" is never an issue.  Eating habits are pretty close because they are both working towards the same goal, and they simply want a mate to look equally attractive and fit.  I personally could care less one way or the other, as long as the understanding is there that hey, this is what I do. 

I think most good RWs would  be happy to prepare things for her husband the way he likes them. My wife enjoys cooking for me. However, you will get introduced to many other healthy things, and the explanations as to why they are healthy, for which there are many good reasons, and your mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law my well have their own "healthy food" input as well ....  LOL        And you know what? They are right about a lot of it. One thing I've learned since being married is a grudging respect for Russian peasant wisdom, if you will. Let's face it, people that can survive with only a 3 month growing season, being surrounded by Prussians, Mongols and Turks, have learned something about survival ! 

[charlie2008]

Bro, Iv'e been cooking my own meals for so long now, I almost prefer it.  But hey, if She really wants to, then have at it. 

[charlie2008]

Well, the "relationship" is over.  It's been a very interesting and fun ride to say the least.  But like I said before, I think I'll limit my search to my own homeland from now on. Thank you all for everything. 

[Shadow]

Charlie, perhaps you will be back. You were doing great after the first shock, and as you did not meet in person you never went to the relationship stage. I think in the long run you will enjoy the counter balance that RW can provide you.

[steviej]

Well, the "relationship" is over.  It's been a very interesting and fun ride to say the least.  But like I said before, I think I'll limit my search to my own homeland from now on. Thank you all for everything. 

I would guess she was a bit ... psycho about getting offended and quarreling about small things, perhaps? Can you share ? Is there something about the experience that leads you to conclude that FSUW are the wrong fishing pond for you in general? Just curious ...

Whatever, good luck to you!

[ScottinCrimea]

And the first time you tried to bench press a certain weight and didn't quite do it you gave up and decided that weight lifting was not for you?  Or did you recognize the merits of reaching your goal and applied more effort?

[charlie2008]

I would guess she was a bit ... psycho about getting offended and quarreling about small things, perhaps? Can you share ? Is there something about the experience that leads you to conclude that FSUW are the wrong fishing pond for you in general? Just curious ...

Whatever, good luck to you!

I spoke with her on thursday, and she told me she was going to her parents house for a BBQ on sat.  I told her that on friday, I was going out with some friends to shoot pool at the bar, and that with our time difference, I wouldn't be leaving until she would be going to bed, so we could still talk like always.  From the start of our conversation on friday, she wanted to know when I was leaving.  Another time I had just finished eating, and went to brush my teeth, she asks what I had done, so I told her.  Her response, "oh, you must be getting ready to go have fun." At one point I told her I would miss her this weekend.  Her response, " we will see, you might not be sure later."  Now I was taking shots like this all night.  Towards the end of our conversation, she told me she would be leaving soon because she had to get up at 7:00 am.  I too mentioned that I would also be signing off soon, and she says  " ok bb, I think you should go get ready to go have fun."  Here is where I snapped.  I asked her what her problem was (knowing all along) She says " nasing bb " lol.  I said " you know something, I must be F****** crazy. Goodnight ***** "  Knowing what I had just done, but didn't care.  Then I get this....
what..?
hmmmm u know sameting i think u like make me upset
 who let u talk now with me, like u talk..?
 i"m just was want be naser with you.
is all
and i think maybe is your have same problem!!
 hmmm do u know, sameting!! i"m not your woman!! i"m not littel girl !!
 We too much time don"t undersatnd oche other
 and i don"t like!!
 i don"t like how u sametimes talk with me!!

Nuff said, You only have to tell me once.  I would like to blame it on her insecurities, the funny thing is that what she doesn't know is that bodybuilders are some of the most insecure people on the planet.  This, (at least to me) was a head game that backfired, and lead to the end of our correspondence.  But to answer your question, no, its not the RW that I'm dissatisfied with.  If there is one thing I have learned, its that women are women no matter where they are from, and I always seem to get this particular type.