Romance before Death; or not.

[Pike]

Ladies, which would be your preference?

The background:  AM and FSU woman have been lovers for nearly 5 years.  They have spent close to a year together over these 5 years; mostly in 3-4 week meetings. He, mid 50s; she early 40s.  Both highly educated with professional careers. They have said the 'I love you' for the past 2 years or so.  Neither sees any need to get married and they have not ever spoken of it.  They have spoken of living together full time, but there have always been complications that prevent it from happening.

The new situation:  Man just now finds out he has terminal illness.  Life expectancy 4 to 6 months.  He has not told the woman.  A month long get together has long been planned to start in mid October.  The man is now thinking he will try to go within a couple of weeks before any visible signs of illness are apparent and before any weakness affects his travel ability.

The alternatives:

1. Tell the woman the complete story now and see if she still wants him to come. 
  (a) Maybe if she knew the complete story, she would just as soon say goodbye without a final visit.
  (b) If she wants him to come, it is likely that the visit will be very gloomy with little passionate romance.

2. Tell the woman he has found a new woman and wants to end their relationship.  Although they have professed their love, they both know that a more significant other could appear for either of them at any time that would be a better fit location wise.  By telling a story about another woman, this may be easier for the woman than her knowing that the man will soon be dead.

3. Go to her and show her the best 4 weeks possible.  Tell her the complete story the last day of the visit.

4. Go to her and show her the best 4 weeks possible.  Tell her the complete story after returning to USA.

5. Other.

[AnastassiaAsh]

TELL THE TRUTH! And asap! if they both decide to still meet again and visit - then have the best 4 weeks possible. 

But being lovers for 5 years isn't honest at all. if both are ok with it then i can't really advise...

[Ronnie]

I can't understand the lack of interest in marriage.  I never met a FSUW who did not want marriage.  My advice is to marry her in her country ASAP That will make her eligible for immigration should she chose it and also eligible to receive survivors benefits  from Social Security that he paid into but will not receive. 

I don't understand why any other course would be considered at this point.

PS if marrying in her country presents too many time consuming hurdles then they can meet in the Dominican Republic and marry there.  He can also file the I-130 for her as his final gift of love.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Ronnie, are you sure she can get SS being in Russia?

I don't think so. You have to be legally married in the US plus stay married for some time, don't remember the time frame, and she can't stay abroad over one month if she wants to keep getting his SS.

So this scenario is too irrealistic and stretched...

[Ronnie]

It should be investigated don't you think?

Did a quick check..couldn't find any minimum marriage duration rule.  Sending payments to Russia can be done but not for more than 6 month.  She can start drawing when she's 62. A direct deposit into a US-based account with funds withdrawn via ATM would avoid any issues dealing with location.

I would not be suggesting this were it not for the fact that the relationship has gone on 5 years already and seems to be bona fide.

I'm frankly appalled at the options he is considering without considering this one.

[steviej]

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. When one adult tries to "protect" another adult, especially a close one, from something unpleasant, they steal part of reality that that person is entitled to. The woman loves the man. What would she want? What would you want? Wouldn't you want the truth? The truth will set you free.

[and don't forget the romance !!    ]

[wxman]

He should tell her as soon as possible. When you truly share life with the one you love, you will eventually have to share death. It's not a pleasant thought, but it helps to bring closure for the other person, knowing that they could bring comfort to you when you needed it most and that you chose to share your last moments with them. Could you imagine the pain she will go through when all of a sudden she recieves a letter or phone call from a stranger saying you are dead? The pain she will go through wondering why you could not confide in her. The pain she will go through not being able to say good bye. Death is part of the circle of life. You destroy the life you have with the one you love, by denying them the ability to say goodbye. Why do you think suicide is so devastating for the other person? It's so hard to find closure.  This would have the same effect.

[Blues Fairy]

#5 - Other.  Go to her, spend the best possible 4 weeks, return, never tell her the truth.  Have someone else inform her of his passing and deliver a memorable gift.  Post-factum is always easier to digest than impending grief.

Important: during those 4 weeks, make it very clear to her that there will be no "next level".

[steviej]

#5 - Other.  Go to her, spend the best possible 4 weeks, return, never tell her the truth.  Have someone else inform her of his passing and deliver a memorable gift.  Post-factum is always easier to digest than impending grief.

Important: during those 4 weeks, make it very clear to her that there will be no "next level".

BF, I know you may just be presenting an alternative view. For the record - disagree completely. wxman has said it so profoundly. Such a lie, that of withholding the profound truth, is indeed a cruelty. Truth withholding and manipulation may be appropriate in handling children in certain situations, but for adults, I think not. IMHO.

[Blues Fairy]

BF, I know you may just be presenting an alternative view. For the record - disagree completely. wxman has said it so profoundly. Such a lie, that of withholding the profound truth, is indeed a cruelty. Truth withholding and manipulation may be appropriate in handling children in certain situations, but for adults, I think not. IMHO.

That's how I would act in his place.  Take pity and make the other person suffer as little as possible - provided it's just a long-distance romance and no plans for future together are or have been discussed. 

"Truth and nothing but the truth" is actually selfish; it's sharing the expectation of grief, making your partner feel the full depth of her powerlessness at the face of the imminent tragedy.  The pain of it may be worse than grief itself. 
Such approach is for weak-minded people who like to see others cry for them. 

[steviej]

"Truth and nothing but the truth" is actually selfish; it's sharing the expectation of grief, making your partner feel the full depth of her powerlessness at the face of the imminent tragedy. 

Disagree completely. Selfish? Withholding the truth is selfish, as well as being false empathy. But what I say depends on whether they indeed are in a relationship of professed love, each to the other. What is their relationship? Are they in a "committed" relationship with mutually professed love? Or, are they in some sort of inbetween condition, where they are beyond initial dating, but short of "committed"? For two or more years, has this been his only woman? For two or more years, has this been her only man? In that case, they each deserve the truth from the other. If its' something more casual, there would be other possibilities.

I know from personal experience the scars from manipulating the truth about something as profound as death. But not only that, I believe for an adult, there is indeed a true "right to know" the truths of one's life. I would never want any other adult to presume they can or should withhold any truth that may have come their way about my life, and withhold that from me intentionally. It is manipulative, patronizing, selfish, cruel (perhaps unintentionally cruel) and in the end, pointless. Knowing the truths of one's life is of paramount importance. No one should take that from you. The truth of this woman's life is that she is in love, and loved in return, with a man who is dying.

[BC]

If the relationship is significant, she will likely know something is 'not quite right' anyway.

I would go and tell her personally up front, definitely not on the phone.  They can decide from there how to proceed.

[Lily]

I would be begging my man to stay with him until his last breath. Probably that would mean marriage and following him to his country. If my beloved man has to die, I would like him to die in my arms. However I feel that in the given situation both were not the significant ones for each  other, so I guess this scenario is not in question.

How does she feel about immigrating and living in the West alone? Probably they could marry asap, so that he could give her a last gift, the future of which are not his headache anymore. 

[Pike]

Refocus.

Thanks for all the comments to this point.

Let’s do a little clarification and try to hone in on only two options.

First, the woman has no desire to live in the USA or anywhere outside of her own city and country.

Second, there will be no marriage.  There is not time for it; it has never been desired or discussed by either party.  The man’s estate is too complicated as it is without adding additional complications for his children by adding a step-mother into the equation.  The man could give the woman a substantial gift;  e.g.  Enough to pay off loan on her apartment and buy a new car.

Third, there will be no ‘dying in the loved one’s arms or sharing last moments.’  The man must return to USA after the visit to work very hard on getting financial and physical assets in order, estate planning, disposal of real estate, etc.  Every drop of effort and ounce of energy spent by the man in this endeavor will save his children and future grandchildren hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits to be realized.

In any option chosen, there will be pain to the woman when she learns of the death . . . whether it be ex ante or ex post.

So here are the two final options:


1) Tell her the situation now.  Go to her and spend 4 very gloomy weeks together with little or no passionate romantic moments.

2) Do not tell of the situation.  Go to her and show her the best possible time for 4 weeks with much intimacy.  They always have a good time, so no suspicions will be raised by this demeanor and nothing will seem ‘not quite right.’  As BF suggested: Have someone else inform her of his passing and deliver a memorable gift.

Option 1 is given reason by Wxman.

“Could you imagine the pain she will go through when all of a sudden she receives a letter or phone call from a stranger saying you are dead? The pain she will go through wondering why you could not confide in her. The pain she will go through not being able to say good bye. Death is part of the circle of life. You destroy the life you have with the one you love, by denying them the ability to say goodbye.”

Option 2 is given reason by Blues Fairy: 

“Take pity and make the other person suffer as little as possible.  ‘Truth and nothing but the truth’ is actually selfish; it's sharing the expectation of grief, making your partner feel the full depth of her powerlessness at the face of the imminent tragedy.  The pain of it may be worse than grief itself.  Such approach is for weak-minded people who like to see others cry for them.”

So ladies; would you prefer the pain up front followed by 4 miserable weeks or 4 great weeks followed by the pain?

And men; would you prefer a last wild romantic 4 week fling or 4 weeks filled with sobbing?

Sidenote:  Options 1a and 2 from original post have now been ruled out based on an exchange of short SMS. He wrote that he may have to come sooner than planned (i.e. Late August rather than mid October). She replied: Wow It is very good if you will come in this time.  He wrote again asking if this earlier time wouldn't cause her much trouble in rearranging her schedules, etc.  She replied: I am ready for you in any time. I love you very much.

[AnastassiaAsh]

i am sorry but 

[Ronnie]

I just realized this thread is for asking the women, so I guess I shouldn't have gotten involved.  But since I'm here, I think I'll join AA.  You say the woman loves him doesn't want to live with him?  Gimme a break!  She knows he's not going to ask so she's pretends she doesn't want him to. 

  Pike says it's never been desired or discussed.  Yeah, not desired  by him! If not discussed, then obviously he doesn't know or care what her desires are, he's only focused on his own desires for the past 5 years.

No time for marriage but he's got time to spend 4 weeks in her bed?  Three days in the Dominican Republic and it's done.  This is not rocket science.  What it is, is disgraceful!

[Lit_1nce]

Strange topic..

To spend 4 weeks with someone, with the gas gauge on "E"...

Hope he has a plan in place if the gas runs out before he makes it back home. In this case full disclosure before he visits is the only responsible thing to do. If that is too sad or gloomy for him, then maybe not visiting is the best course anyway.