Provincial and postindustrial regions are the 'diamond mines': Myth?

[Andrew James]

Doing some pretty extensive reading and picked up some valuable pointers, though a lot of it now echos what I was told when embarking on my (enriching but) commercially unsuccessful acting career: "Don't do it unless you're 100% sure you are meant for it, not least because the demand for your demographic is now low enough to render the whole venture impractical unless you have a particular passion for it." (which I do.)

As a counterpoint to this attitude, the friend I'm looking at traveling with has a more optimistic approach. He is, for example, encouraged by the Jack Bragg kind of notion http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7289 that that postindustrial cities in Russia/Ukraine still possess a plentiful supply of beautiful, family-minded young girls ready to marry guys who in material terms present the basic option of a spousal visa and a rented house in a Western city, funded by an average single income.

For mine, however, the idea of of going to the boondocks of Russia seems especially challenging, with the potential for a 'mule' or 'strangers in marriage' scenario, not to mention the problems mentioned in the Risky Business thread and revealed in Taz's story of AM-seeking-RW as a manifestation of Borderline Personality Disorder. http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6490.0. 

More significantly, I wonder if it is even viable/true anymore: this notion of considerable regional opportunities when it comes to snatching up a Russian Bride in short-time?

Now, I'm guessing this has been addressed before, so, rather than people having to go over the same old story (unless they care to) please point me to other relevant posts I may have missed, save we BOTH end up stuck down an abandoned mineshaft on our travels.

[BC]

Check out a recent report of a provincial town of around 100,000 in RU:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7949.0

Some say it's a numbers game... but the numbers seem to be getting smaller and smaller..

I'm sure if your friend goes to an isolated itsy bitsy town of a few hundred or so for a short visit he might be able to find some lost soul that will marry him right off.. -or maybe not..

[Andrew James]

Thanks for the link BC. An enlightening report. If this process of gentrification is nation wide (i.e., the rust belts too) then maybe the 90s phenomena is at a close as far as the FSU goes?

[BC]

Thanks for the link BC. An enlightening report. If this process of gentrification is nation wide (i.e., the rust belts too) then maybe the 90s phenomena is at a close as far as the FSU goes?

If you refer to this RW MOB thing, I think the WM has just as much or more reason now days not to go than to go if his purpose is to find a wife via agencies/socials and such.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of fine ladies there but the approach will have to be much more creative to find a good one.

[Ade]

Given the nightmare stories laid out here and elsewhere I think it beggars belief that people still consider it a viable option just to pop over to the FSU and pick up a bride.

The ingredients of a successful marriage are no different because the woman happens to be from the FSU even if said woman is living in an impoverished situation.

It takes time and effort to get to know a woman and to build a relationship; why on earth would someone want to marry a person they don't know? Oh, I get it, it's the sex right?

[Shadow]

The trick is to find a woman that would not leave her environment if not for one thing : her future husband.
About where to find is a matter of discussion.

[Ben Armen]

IMHO, the question isn't how much technology the have and the number of improvements to infrastructure, it has to do more with quality of life.  I have heard due to political uncertainty that women do wish to leave.  The question is when you meet someone, are they sincere or a PD.  Kiev and Odessa have a very high concentration ofPDs.  Why farm where there are weeds?  If you go to Ukraine and take a puddle jump, say Dnipro, Kharkov, Simfropol, you will find nice ladies.  You will find your PDs but it IS a numbers game, and that is why my objective is to meet 10 women per trip and I do not focus on emails.  You can learn more in 90 minutes at a cafe than 3 months of email.  And with the 3 months of email you planned a few days together, what if it doesnt work out?  You tied up 3-5 days with a girl you (or she) conculded this is not a match.  My guess is 5 years from now the puddle jump cities will be concentrated and you may have to puddle jump and bus... like Mariupol, Lugansk, etc.  These are great cities now, can't say I've been there, just been puddle jumping.

Best of luck on your trip.

Ben Armen

[Andrew James]

It takes time and effort to get to know a woman and to build a relationship; why on earth would someone want to marry a person they don't know?...

Agreed, Seriously Jaded. I'm more interested in an international courtship, though I am fascinated by AM-FSUW dating in all its manifestations and keen the expose any of the myths - especially for the benefit of my traveling companion.

[Shadow]

Ben, any woman who chooses to go foreign because of political situation or quality of life is best avoided.
A PD also plays the numbers game, for every guy that gives nothing but a cup of coffee there will be one that buys the fur coat.

[Ade]

Agreed, Seriously Jaded. I'm more interested in an international courtship, though I am fascinated by AM-FSUW dating in all its manifestations and keen the expose any of the myths - especially for the benefit of my traveling companion.

"International courtships" as you put it can be very expensive; they are not necessarily out of reach of the "guys who in material terms present the basic option of a spousal visa and a rented house in a Western city, funded by an average single income" but you'd better be prepared to tighten your belt if necessary. As you've probably read here, it's not just about the travelling and hotel expenses but the relocation process for her is not going to be inexpensive either.

I think a lot of guys will tend to rush the process either because international dating/courtship is a PITA in general or because it's freaking expensive and not all of us have bottomless funds like some that post here.

Personally, I don't think you need to look in the boon docks to find someone "desperate" enough to "put up" with your financial situation; in fact, as has been pointed out, it's advisable that you avoid that scenario if at all possible for all sorts of reasons. My girl had absolutely no idea how much I earned and still doesn't really but she knows I have a job and a house to live in. She's certainly not desperate to leave her home town and just wants to find a compatible partner.  There are probably many, many women just like her that just want someone to love and aren't counting on, or even looking for the millionaire to sweep them off their feet.

If you're not a hopeless case that has the social antenna and skills of a baboon (like some that have posted here) you'll be able to find someone as long as you can navigate your way around the scammers. One way for that IMHO is to post some profiles around the place and be totally honest about what you want and about your financial situation - gold diggers will instantly move on to fish with larger wallets - and see who shows an interest. My gf sent me a mail from a profile I posted on a western dating site that happens to attract women from Russia and the Philippines.

BTW are you British? That's a very English sounding name. If you are it will definitely cut down on the travelling costs.

Edit: Ignore that last one, I've just seen your intro thread. Hm, I guess that accusing you of being a pom is an insult? 

[Ben Armen]

Ben, any woman who chooses to go foreign because of political situation or quality of life is best avoided.
A PD also plays the numbers game, for every guy that gives nothing but a cup of coffee there will be one that buys the fur coat.

Shadow, I agree with you.  You can tell a woman's motives by her eyes whether she is buying time or is keenly interested with you.  the woman I am committed to would rather have me move there than she move to me.  I moved across states for the first marriage and it was a shaky foundation that it was built on, which the AW kept taking on her terms until I asked her to leave.  You will know true love when you see it.  it is the eyes.  I learned this from a Veteran of the front lines.  I have heard many complaints on the economy and political situation.

[BC]

You will know true love when you see it.  it is the eyes.  I learned this from a Veteran of the front lines.  I have heard many complaints on the economy and political situation.

At their news conference in Slovenia, Mr. Bush said of Mr. Putin: ''I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul.''

JK

[steviej]

At their news conference in Slovenia, Mr. Bush said of Mr. Putin: ''I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul.''

JK

So, Bush is gay? Well, that may explain a lot ... LOL     

[Andrew James]

Thanks for the honest yet encouraging words SeriouslyJaded. When I read posts about having to own my own house outright I concluded that only the richest 1% in the western world could afford this. I mean living in a country with a very high standard of living (2nd only to your own country and Iceland in terms of HDI) does have its advantages, and you pay for it too, most notably when buying a piece of that country in the form of a 1/4 acre block.

And no worries about my very British sounding name. I have UK ancestry so it is true in spirit. I will get onto some of those dating sites, though I must say, the local ones are scary (be interested to see which one's the RW frequent, other than those where you have to know Russian.)

[Blues Fairy]

More significantly, I wonder if it is even viable/true anymore: this notion of considerable regional opportunities when it comes to snatching up a Russian Bride in short-time?

As a psychologist, i.e. one able to appreciate individuality, as well as a man obviously generous with his writing, it's strange why you would adopt such a "net fishing" approach to searching for a wife.  If you are searching for an intellectual equal, you would do well not to underestimate the power of written word.  You certainly know how much one can tell from a person's writing. 

This is to say that picking a region beforehand is useless until you have found someone with whom you can maintain meaningful communication.  If she happens to be in the province, go to the province.  If she's a big city girl, go to the big city.  You can work out your backup plans once you've established the target.

[Andrew James]

You certainly know how much one can tell from a person's writing. 

Indeed, which is why you should have read my post/s more closely, Blues Fairy, because I was referring to a FRIEND who expressed these ideas (he is keen to stake out areas in this way, following Jack Bragg's lead). Said friend is someone I am planning on traveling with, though his approach differs markedly from my own. (He doesn't post like I do to, meaning I am the one setting out to bust some myths, like this idea of regional scouting.)

[Blues Fairy]

Indeed, which is why you should have read my post/s more closely, BlueFairy, because I was referring to a friend who expressed these ideas (going to the Boon Docks, echoes of Jack Bragg) someone I am planning on traveling with. I find his approach differs markedly from my own.

My bad - I perceived that you were pondering the net fishing method as well.   Good luck in your differing approach.

I'm Blues, BTW.

[Andrew James]

I'm Blues, BTW.

Fixed the (s). So much for practicing what I preach! 

And yeah, net fishing seems approach seems rather expedient. (Cynical, from the way Jack Bragg in GQ describes it too.)

BTW Are you into Blues music or the dancing? (people usually mean the music and from the look of your pic that probably covers it. You would no doubt be aware there is Blues dancing too, something I have been doing for several years.)

[Blues Fairy]

BTW Are you into Blues music or dancing? (people usually mean the music but the dance also hails by that name, something I have been doing for several years.)

OFF
I've worked as a singer with a classic blues band in Moscow for a year, hence the handle.  But I'm more into jazz vocal now.

[Gator]

Andrew James,

I agree with Blues Fairy.

Your writings suggest an intellectual bent.  Many RW of the same mold have gravitated to the big cities.  They are there.


I would suggest studying the profiles of larger agencies to identify 20-30 prospects.  Then trade a few letters, and concentrate on 2-3 by corresponding in depth and talking a lot on the phone.

What to look for in a profile?  Education is important but not paramount.  Read the narrative parts of the profiles.  Are they original, creative and interesting?  What to avoid?  Symptoms of chronic despair.

[Andrew James]

Andrew James,
Your writings suggest an intellectual bent.  Many RW of the same mold have gravitated to the big cities.  They are there.
I would suggest studying the profiles of larger agencies to identify 20-30 prospects.  Then trade a few letters, and concentrate on 2-3 by corresponding in depth and talking a lot on the phone.

Hi Gator:

Thanks for the tips. Makes sense too. (One of the appealing aspects of the FSU is the greater respect for academia and intellectual types, especially amongst the women, it would seem). For these reasons I have been targeting university towns as well.

On the agency front, I've been checking out loveme.com and EM over the last little while (I figure they are two of the bigger ones.) Interestingly, a bulk of their profiles seem to come from Ukraine.

[steviej]

Hi Gator:

Thanks for the tips. Makes sense too. (One of the appealing aspects of the FSU is the greater respect for academia and intellectual types, especially amongst the women, it would seem). For these reasons I have been targeting university towns as well.

On the agency front, I been checking out loveme.com and EM over the last little while (I figure they are two of the bigger ones.) Interestingly, a bulk of their profiles seem to come from Ukraine.

I met my wife on EM. She was one of the cover girl models. I called the agency and told them I'd give this girl one million dollars if she would marry me. She said yes and we got married. But then I told her the truth: I dont' have a million dollars ! ... LOL .. Well, she was p*ss*d, but by then she'd grown fond of me, so we're still together. [Just kidding!! But I did really meet her on EM .]

Andrew, have you read about the WOVO vs. WMVM debates? Being a bit of an intellect and Cyrano myself, I was more the WOVO type: write detailed letters to fewer women and respond to the ones the corresponded likewise. As BF said, you can tell a lot from that process: the intellect, sense of personality, genuineness (impossible for a scammer to correspond with me, for the most part, I guarantee). I wanted to feel that I really knew a lot about this woman's intellect, perspective, values and so forth, before going to visit. I also had extensive telephone conversations - daily. There are 2 risks with the quasi-WOVO approach: 1) you go too long. You've still got to be fairly prompt to get on the plane and go. 2) There have been some crash & burns when they get there when, for some reason, the chemistry just seems all wrong even though each thought it would be good.

There are many guys happily married here who followed the WMVM approach, where they arranged to meet more women the first time, for shorter intervals. They don't invest as much with any one woman up front, and try to get physical meetings with more candidates sooner. Then for them, its about follow-up. Did they really hit it off with any of the ladies? Yes, get on the follow up bandwagon. No? Go back to beginning of WMVM and set up next possibilities. They are also scouting around for possibilities in many ways whenever they are there, you know, girls they meet in a museum, club, waitress, etc.. There is some real sense to that too.

I'm pointing out that I, as a kind of wordy, brainy, intellectual Cyrano type, with more intense writing/calling with a much smaller group (basically: two for me) worked well. So approach it whatever suits your personality and circumstances the best. In either case, it is important to not wait too long to get on the plane and go. I probably waited a little too long to go. The first time I could leave work was too soon, but the second time was a little later than it should have been.

A good trip report for you to read about the WMVM approach is a recent one by Myrrdin. He's not the extrovert type and he's very candid about his experience meeting with several ladies on his first trip. I think it gives  you a good feel for what that would be like.

[Ben Armen]

Andrew,

When going to Ukraine, it is a very long trip and a lot of time and money will be invested.  As a former WOVO and coming back empty handed, I am converted to WMVW.  Trips 1 and 2 were WOVO and came away empty.  Trip 3 was a WMVM and came away with a very nice girl in Dnipro.  One month later was a visit to see her for New Years, we had a great trip, I big red flag went up the last night of the trip... we were at the market, buying snacks and something to munch on the plane, and she grabbed an an extra pack of condoms when we weren't out.  Well, at the airport, as always, you huddle up with the AM and share experiences, and it was concluded to continue...but with caution.  The next trip was a 3 city trip, A 3 day stay in Kiev with a girl from Sevasotopol after a long email relationship, it was concluded within 3 hrswe werent compatible, andstill had 2 more days. stage two was WMVM in Kharkov, where I met the woman I am going to marry.  After that trip, I went to Dnipro to test to see if she was the one, and incompatibilities were obvious.  It is all about numbers Andrew, if you limit yourself to 2 or 3 women, you may be forcing a round peg in a square hole.  We are all here for one reason, to have a successful marriage and we do not feel it can happen with women in our native country.  According to the book "Finding the Love of Your Life" by Dr. Neil Clark Warren the most important part of the marriage is the mate selection.  If you pick the wrong one, you are doomed from the start!!!

Ben Armen

[yourjullie]

 I know situation from the inside. It`s more kind of myth about diamond mine. in fact almost every girl from the countryside is despair to get to bigger city, they try to do it through entering universities in big cities and catching husband there, but our big-cities guys are not so simple nowadays they don`t marry just take this girls to live with them and most avoid girls from smaller towns. If woman from smaller town didn`t manage to catch a big-cities guy or never went to study to big city it`s sign that she`s ...not of big quality, so if you just want a doormate not partner countryside despair girl will be ok, but best of such girls are already married either to local or big-city men. Of course there`re exceptions but rule is rule.

[Misha]

postindustrial cities in Russia/Ukraine still possess a plentiful supply of beautiful, family-minded young girls ready to marry guys who in material terms present the basic option of a spousal visa and a rented house in a Western city, funded by an average single income.

For mine, however, the idea of of going to the boondocks of Russia seems especially challenging, with the potential for a 'mule' or 'strangers in marriage' scenario

In reading your post, and the replies, it seems to me that there is much confusion surrounding what is "provincial."

In the above statement, you refer to both "post-industrial cities" and boondocks and in your title  you throw in the term provincial. Would a city such as Perm in the Russian Urals with close to a million people be going to the boondocks? From the Moscow perspective, it would be a provincial city, but having been there, I can attest to the fact that it is a fully modern city with wonderful restaurants and cafes and bars and everything else you would want in a city. There are jobs and ambitious young women can find jobs and establish a career for themselves. Life in Perm is much different from life in a distant Russian village, yet from what you have written you would describe it as life in the boondocks.

If you go to Moscow, you will find your share of people that are facing a difficult time. Moscow has money, but is extremely expensive. My wife has a friend who works in Moscow and lives in a city far from the outskirts of Moscow because she can't afford anything else. She spends hours each day commuting to work and going back home. She is doing well, but hardly living in the lap of luxury. There are many women like her in Moscow: young women who came to Moscow for the hopes of good jobs and maybe finding a husband, but are struggling to survive in a very expensive city.

To sum up, living in a regional city (i.e. "provincial") does not equal being poor and desperate and the large metropolis of Moscow has its fair share of decent women who are working very hard to get by in a very expensive city and would be happy to consider other options.