Hi guys, I am a new bie here and need an urgent answer.

[abybaby]

Hi everyone,


I am a 26 year old Indian guy currently living in New york and with a fairly good carrier. A month or so ago I started giving out EOI's on EM, I am a gold member there. Received a lots of not interesteds and a few EOIs and Emails back. With this one particular girl it hit off. Both of us have surprising similarities!! The likes and dislikes, the way we think. Also I am also very well traveled around the world and speak several languages and so does she and travels to many countries too. Last week end she wrote me long emails(I wrote first) and sent me some photos and videos. I  too sent her a lots photos with my friends.(My first doubt is she mostly sends here individual photos only, when asked she sent me 2 with her friends and some clown:)).Also she never wrote back during the week but wrote a long happy mail on weekend.She told be she was in Hong Kong for a photo shoot.

I have called her 3-4 times now, on weekends we have around 1/2 hour chat but on week days, only after 5 mins  she says I have to go. Today I asked about how would we meet? She was quite insistent about meeting in Kiev or zaporotye(her town) because it would be easy for her. I suggested meeting in Egypt, Greece or morocco but she kinda avoided it. She said she can only take a leave from work for not more than 7 days. Now my questions are -

I am skeptical about meeting in her own country for the first time.
Is she avoiding  meeting in a neutral country because of not trusting me enough yet or it money issue? Or it could be a scam?
If she is really interested in me, I don't see enough effort from her side and chooses the easy path?
Currently I am very busy with my job (13 hours a day) and don't have any vacations soon, so I don't see a point going to Ukraine with so many doubts and that too only for 7 days.
But if she is real and Into me, I feel it will turn out great. How do I find out that she is just not playing and really likes me? By the way since having written to me she is Inactive on EM.


All help will be much appretiated.

Respect and regards to you all.

Abybaby

[William3rd]

You should meet her in Kiev and preferably go to her town as well. Then there will be no secrets and you can save egypt for a second trip if you hit it off. I am not sure what effort you expect out of her. You are a brief contact and have spoken a few times. Perhaps you will resolve your issues as you get to know her better.

[steviej]

Agree with William. You should be glad she doesn't want to go to a resort with you. To stereotype and generalize, the "good" FSU girls will not go on a vacation with a man, at least at first. The professional daters will. So will the "quasi-escorts." [And please, anyone who met his wife first on holiday, do not take offense. I know everything can happen in a million different ways.] Meeting in her home town is good. IMHO

[kievstar]

This is a good sign.  Have to remember she is a woman.  Meeting someone she has never met in a foreign country - women who do this are desperate to get married or professional dater. 

The longer you wait she will mostly likely meet someone else especially if she really is a model.  But I would be surprised if she was really a model. A lot of girls in Ukraine call themselves models but really only hand out pamphlets at trade shows, stand in fountains in bathing suit in fountains at trade shows, or serve food in skimmpy clothes. They do get there photo taken.

Face to face meeting is the best way to meet for you.  You said you have a good career so money is not an issue.  Fly over for one day to meet her.  If you cannot do that, than your really not interested in her.

[Shadow]

Most guys would ask advice if the situation as reversed. Asking to meet you in her surroundings is the best thing that can happen to you.
Women in the FSU are independent, but at the same time will want the approval of their friends and family. And there is no other way ot get that than by letting you meet them.
Pack your bags!

[ambach123]

It is good that she wants to meet you in her country; make sure you have back up plans when you go there. Many on line relationships have fizzled out in less than ten minutes of meeting.

This is a very expensive pursuit both in time and money. I don't know your specific financial situation but very few young people can survive on a near minimum wage second income for years to come specially in New York city.

I think you  should carefully consider the financial obligations in bringing a RW here before you spend your limited resources on this pursuit.

[ConnerVT]

 But I would be surprised if she was really a model. A lot of girls in Ukraine call themselves models but really only hand out pamphlets at trade shows, stand in fountains in bathing suit in fountains at trade shows, or serve food in skimmpy clothes. They do get there photo taken.

Isn't that what 99.9% of models do?  Not every model is Gisele Bundchen, and I think she already has a boyfriend.   

[Jack]

Hello abybaby,

Most everyone here wishes the best for all men who are in pursuit for a Russian bride. Good men finding a good Russian wife is what this site is all about.

Sometimes someone has to play the devil's advocate. At this time I see a lot of rah-rah, go for it abybaby, so I guess I will play the devil's advocate.

You say a few things that are a little contradictory.  At first you say " With this one particular girl it hit off. Both of us have surprising similarities!! The likes and dislikes, the way we think".   and then you write "If she is really interested in me, I don't see enough effort from her side and chooses the easy path?"    And   "so I don't see a point going to Ukraine with so many doubts".     How can you and her really being hitting it off if you do not see enough effort from her part and with you having so many doubts?


abybaby all Ukraine and Russian women are different in as such they should not be stereotyped, but I will tell you with 100% per cent certainty, their is a prejudice towards men from India, Pakistan.   Maybe this model you are writing does not have such prejudice but you do need to know it exist.

You have indicated you have chatted with her several times. On at least one occasion she tells you she can only chat for 5 minutes and she has to go.  I would think that before you chat with this, or any, woman you would ask her when is a good time for her to chat, when she does have time to chat, and chat with her at this time.

Also you should be aware that their are MANY young, beautiful model type women who are paid to chat with men. Not saying your model is one of these but again, I know with 100% certainty, their are many young and beautiful women for whom this is their job, to chat with any and all men.

And the last thing I will comment on, and this is only my opinion.  You don't have any vacation time soon, you even write you don't seeing going to Ukraine, then WHY are you even writing, chatting, communicating with ANY Ukraine or Russian woman if you don't even know when, if, you will be able to go to Ukraine?

I know there will be several men who will disagree and say write, write, write, chat, chat, chat, but I know that most good and sincere Ukraine and Russian women do NOT want months of writing, months of chatting, they want to meet a man they have interest in and meet him sooner, not later.  I am a firm believer that when you are within two months of your trip, now you write, now you chat, now you tell any and every women who interest's you that if she has a sincere interest in meeting you, as you do her, that you will come and see her next month. I promise you that when you write this to ladies it will increase the percentage of ladies who will agree to meet you and that's all we men can ask for, is the chance to meet several fine ladies.

abybaby if you don't even know when you will be able to make a trip to Ukraine or Russia, why write, why chat with these women?  What do you do in the mean time, what do you do until you know when you are able to make this trip? You continue to educate yourself, you continue to look for, and make note of women you are attracted to and go to this list, begin writing these ladies when you are within two months of being able to see them.

[ConnerVT]

Good post, Jack.

[KenC]

Good post, Jack.

I concur. 

[kievstar]

hi ConnorVT, models are too sell products.  regarding the pamphlet thing you would only know if you go to certain parties in Kiev (trade show is slang for something else)  not a good subject for this board. Regarding Gisselle I like her but I have lived in Sao Paulo.  Many girls just like her in Sao Paulo.  I prefer a girl who will live in Ukraine since I will be living there again in near future.  Not easy to find a girl outside Ukraine willing to go live there.

[abybaby]

HI Guys,

Thanks for all your valuable and knowledgeable replies. Jack its my fault, didn't clarify much! When I said lack of effort from her side I meant lack of emails on week days(I write her everyday even though my very busy schedule, not romantic letters mind you. But informative letters so that she can know more about this place and me to have least surprises later).(Only romantic words are sweetie and lovely so far) Lack of email got clarified when she told me she was in Hong kong for a photoshoot. She is not a Laetitia Casta and hasn't got that attitude either.She works only with one photographer part time and finally wants to be a teacher. About my not being able to go there soon enough, i think it takes time to build a relationship even online! She in the second email itself gave me her cell no, so I don't think she woks for any agency. Yesterday I asked her for her postal address and today I have it along with detailed instructions from her on how to get there, what hotels to book and what airlines are the cheapest. I checked it all including her address on maps, its exact.
My phone antiquates are quite good thanks you very much, I had previously asked her what time is good to call. But her schedule, as of mine is very hectic(as I came to know now and similarly I may have to decline a call a lot of times).
About them prejudiced about Indians and Pakistanis(who's profiles are far different from each other) is laughable at best(no offense to you).My previous girlfriend was Russian, we are still good friends, just our carriers and geography drew us apart. Also I get so many EOIs and emails from well educated, good looking girls in good professions from FSU, that I find it I impossible to write to them all, and NO its on my private emails right from the second letter.Otherwise I don't reply. It all trickles down to a persons upbringing and education level(I am choosy about this factor). Not to mention I have all my INDIAN photographs on my profile.

Don't generalize my friend, world it too diverse for that:)
 
 Today I asked my boss about having a vacation for 15 days but got crashed and burned I told her that in detail and said I can come in either in November or December with my reasons.Now I am waiting for ther reply, if she says she'll wait, and further keeps up the communication that reinforces that she is into me. If I crash and burn, ofcourse! that's why I am called a newbie. Scammed? i wish somebody try it;)
I am a newbie but not a 16yrld'
She also sent me some of her videos(without any make up) and funnily awkward, as in made by herself
Also I am writing to multiple girls in Ukraine a lots of open options!
Now please go ahead and kick my butt )

PS: Forgive my typos, I am just about to crash in my bed O zzzzzzzzzzz


Respect and regards to you all. And goog luck.
Abybaby

[Ade]

HI Guys,

Thanks for all your valuable and knowledgeable replies.
...

Abybaby

Hey dude

Jack was right in that there's a lot of various flavours of scammers out there trying it on in one way or another and there are better guys than you and I that have been caught out by them; they can be very good (although usually they aren't ). To me it doesn't sound like that's what's happening to you with this particular lady though.

But, really, he was right about the 2 month, 3 or 4 at most, visiting thing; any longer and there's a high probability that interest will slowly dry up and she will move on.

It will take a lot of vacation time and money to do this if you want to increase your chance of success; do you think you are in the position where you have those kinds of resources to hand at this time in your life?

Also, about stereotyping the prejudiced; well, there really are some countries that in general tend to have higher rates of racism. From my experience, Norway is one such country and Russia seems to be too although I've no direct experience of it there (my gf has related stories though).

Good luck, like all of us, you will certainly need it. 

[KenC]

abybaby,
Get one very important thing straight: you do not have a relationship with this woman until the moment you meet her face to face.  Until then, you have a pen pal.  You can analyze this woman forever and you still won't know squat until you get your butt on a plane and meet her.  Until then, this is just a fantasy for both you and her.

I find your two posts riddled with inconsistencies and paradoxes.  You tell us how perfectly the two of you hit it off, and yet she blows you off when you call and doesn't write to you during the week.  You identify yourself as a newbie and have never yet traveled to the fsu and yet you mockingly debate Jack whom practically lives there.  My suggestion is that you shut your trap and listen to the man of great experience.  You further argue that your ethnicity will not impede your search for a RW and yet you yourself tell us you received many "not interested" replies from your initial queries.  Me thinks you hear only that what you want to hear and choose to ignore the information and input that doesn't fit into your way of thinking.

Five or six months ahead of your first visit seems like too long a time to try to maintain a pen pal association.  The experienced people here know that the pen pal experience usually burns itself out within a few months without any personal contact.  And if you cannot get away until 5 or 6 months from now, when do you plan on your follow up trip if things go well on the first?  Another year?  Or do you just plan on rolling the dice after one trip?  Some things are not worth doing if you cannot do them right.  RW are not for everyone.
KenC

[Shadow]

As the FSU has its share of Indian looking people I would not worry too much about being unable to find a partner. There are people who will not like your heritage, and being political correct is something the FSU has not discovered, so expect some people to tell it to your face.
I agree with KenC that you have no relationship until you meet face to face. Also you will have to consider your ability for regular travel. Especially in the courting phase being able to make only one trip a year can be killing. Women in the FSU do not have lack of attention, and while most men might not be found worthy if given enough time there is always the chance of another local (or foreign) man turning up.

[Maxx2]

abybaby,

You have too many things going against you. You should forget about RW and start looking in your own backyard.

Maxx

[groovlstk]

About my not being able to go there soon enough, i think it takes time to build a relationship even online!

Absolutely false, only good can come out of a visit asap - either you will know she's for real and what you are looking for, or you will very quickly know she's not right for you and  will quit wasting each other's time.

About prejudices - you WILL be thought of as second class by a good number of Russian people simply because of your skin color. If you choose to disbelieve this, it's your prerogative but get ready to be used and abused. I know women who've used hispanic and filipino men as mules to get green cards - this shouldn't dissuade you if you are determined to find a RW but you would be wise to keep it in the back of your mind at all times along this journey.

If you think Jack or the other members who alerted you to this are doing it to discourage you, you're wrong - we'd LOVE to see you succeed but you need to be extra mindful of the pitfalls...

FWIW, I met an Indian student studying to be a physician during my last trip to St. Petersburg, he had nothing but bitterness towards Russian women because they wouldn't give him the time of day, despite his interest.

[Maxx2]

I know women who've used hispanic and filipino men as mules to get green cards

I read recently on one of these forums. Question to a RW about her husband: "Do you love him?" Russian woman answers, "He's Hispanic". Like "Of course not. how could I?"

I do know of some marriages between Indian men and Russian women that work. But the husbands are real go-getters, business men with lots of money. 


Maxx 

[ScottinCrimea]

My wife's opinion is that in general Indian men are not preferred and would have more difficulty finding an amenable RW.  She does note, though, that a classmate of hers had a fascination with the Indian culture and all things Indian and married a man from there and I once met an Indian who had been married to a RW and living in Kharkov for 15 years, so the exceptions are out there.  The difficulty will be in finding one of these exceptions that meet your needs/desires and that you are compatible with.  One has to be realistic that the field is much more narrow while remaining optimistic that the exception can be found.

One important thing that everyone must keep in mind is that if a woman is interested in a passport or your money, it doesn't matter your age, your color or your weight.

[yourjullie]

I do agree too that decent RW won`t meet you first at resort, it shows...not very high morals

[Blues Fairy]

Oh please, enough generalizing about "decent RW won't do this, won't do that" etc.
Circumstances vary and sometimes the level of trust attained through long-distance communication can be high enough to risk a trip to warmer latitudes as a way to spend quality time and get acquainted.  And mind you, not all RW will expect the man to cover their expenses; some are capable of taking care of themselves just fine.

[KenC]

Oh please, enough generalizing about "decent RW won't do this, won't do that" etc.
Circumstances vary and sometimes the level of trust attained through long-distance communication can be high enough to risk a trip to warmer latitudes as a way to spend quality time and get acquainted.  And mind you, not all RW will expect the man to cover their expenses; some are capable of taking care of themselves just fine.

I hear ya, BF.  It does appear that Julie is projecting her moral standards a bit, but it is a typical move for a woman of "less sincere" motives to go on vacation with a man she has yet to meet.  It is also not typical for a woman of high moral standards to accept such an invitation.  But you are correct, there can be exceptions.  (There almost always are exceptions)
KenC

[Blues Fairy]

I hear ya, BF.  It does appear that Julie is projecting her moral standards a bit, but it is a typical move for a woman of "less sincere" motives to go on vacation with a man she has yet to meet.  It is also not typical for a woman of high moral standards to accept such an invitation.  But you are correct, there can be exceptions.  (There almost always are exceptions)
KenC

And what is the definition of "high moral standards"?  Not sleeping on the first date?

[ScottinCrimea]

Maybe we should look at this as not just a RW thing.  What would be the impression of a AW who agrees to a weekend in an exotic location as a first date?  Would the impression be different and if so, why?

[KenC]

And what is the definition of "high moral standards"?  Not sleeping on the first date?

BF,
To each his own.

Scott,
Your premise is full of "what if's".  So much so that it is difficult to even begin to analyze.  I would like to think that I use the same standards to judge moral character for all people.
KenC