When A Well Connected Meeting Does Not Work, Why?

[ambach123]

I have read recent postings by Steve that he wrote to one lady for a few months, got connected on the phone, and all of this transferred in person very well. Congratulations.

Anastasia's story is even more profound,  she was married seven days after a well planned and prepared meeting for the first time. I am stunned.

I believe BF and some others followed the same.

I have communicated with someone by daily emails and phone calls for the past three months. We seem to be well connected.  I am planning to meet her next month.

I have mixed feelings, since I have also read that many wrote for months and then met; however the meeting lasted for only 30 minutes.

My question is when the meetings fizzled out, did n't these guys have any clue before the meeting, and what all those letters and telephone calls were for?  And why did the meetings fizzle out?

I am going with an open mind, but I see two completely opposite experiences. Is there some clue for each of them in the planning stage?

Thanks.

[steviej]

... I have communicated with someone by daily emails and phone calls for the past three months. We seem to be well connected.  I am planning to meet her next month. ...

That is the $64,000 question, isn't it?! I'm not sure how to interpret, "we seem to be well connected." There's a lack of emotion to it ??

[KenC]

It is not the quantity of the communication that is important, it is the quality.  Some guys send a million emails and receive another million in return and still do not know sh!t about the woman.

Lena and my preferred mode of communication was the phone.  We talked about everything under the sun.  But we made sure that we covered the important topics and didn't just chit chat or exchange romantic thoughts.  In fact, by design, we avoided too much romantic talk at all.  I was and still am firmly convinced that the romantic notions should begin upon meeting face to face.  It just is too easy to slip into a fantasy mode and paint a romantic picture that cannot be lived up to in real life.

I had zero surprises when I met Lena in regard to her personality, moral character, likes and dislikes.  I knew where she stood on religion, family, kids, career and even politics.  Be very careful in the political talk today! :hairraising:

Basically speaking, we both spoke from our hearts and we both also listened well to what the other had to say.  There were no gamesmenship at all.  Just total and complete honesty.
KenC

[Ade]

I have read recent postings by Steve that he wrote to one lady for a few months, got connected on the phone, and all of this transferred in person very well. Congratulations.

Anastasia's story is even more profound,  she was married seven days after a well planned and prepared meeting for the first time. I am stunned.

I believe BF and some others followed the same.

I have communicated with someone by daily emails and phone calls for the past three months. We seem to be well connected.  I am planning to meet her next month.

I have mixed feelings, since I have also read that many wrote for months and then met; however the meeting lasted for only 30 minutes.

My question is when the meetings fizzled out, did n't these guys have any clue before the meeting, and what all those letters and telephone calls were for?  And why did the meetings fizzle out?

I am going with an open mind, but I see two completely opposite experiences. Is there some clue for each of them in the planning stage?

Thanks.

I have experience of this which is relevant although it wasn't with a Russian woman.

I came into contact with a Norwegian woman through an online dating site; I think she contacted me originally. We exchanged mails for a while, several weeks I think and it was unbelievable how well matched we seemed to be. I can't say that I've ever had that impression of rightness before. She lived about 90 minutes from me and I invited her for dinner; it was total disaster. There was no chemistry in the slightest; it was extremely bizarre.

All I can say is that you can reduce the risk of incompatibility by emailing and talking on the phone for a while beforehand but until you actually meet face to face you will never know if that spark is going to be there.

Oh, and as for why, well, who knows? Pheromones, body language, bad hair day? There have been many studies related to why people are subconsciously attracted to each other; some show that what would be considered an ideal partner at one time in the month wouldn't be at another. Another I heard about seems to indicate that we are genetically programmed to be instinctively aware of genetic incompatibilities that would lead to less than ideal offspring.

Whatever the reasons I don't think there's much you can do beforehand to eliminate the make or break X factor.

[ScottinCrimea]

As others have said, there are indeed a lot of variables involved.  The mistake many often make when communicating by e-mail or by phone is that they tend to stick with topics that are comfortable, avoiding the difficult subjects or talking around them.  That's more difficult when you are face to face and you have body language and facial expressions that you can't hide.  Also, until you meet face to face, you won't know if she has body odor, eats like a slob, snores, etc.  Those are extreme examples, but often there are small tics or habits that would be fine with someone else but just bug the heck out of you. Only time together brings those out.

[Caddydaddy]

I too made unpleasant experiences with local dating sites, as SeriouslyJaded says, BIZZAR, nice communication but no chemistry at all when meeting, that can happen, you could see someone running, hehe. Like Steviej says, this is always the $64,000 question, will it work out or will it not?

Seeking with that agency since, strangely enough I made apparently mistakes contacting the wrong Ladies there too. After talking to the agency direktor she simply proposed "browse thru the catalogue and contact any Lady you want".
OK, maybe this one, and that one, oh this one looks nice too, ahh there, no rather not could be a glamour girl, probably that one, hum!! My introduction letters went out. Results: negative, ha!

Then an email with some pictures of Ladies from the agency came in "Dear CaddyDaddy, may I propose these Ladies for you, I know them all personaly and know what they are looking for".
I flatly fell off my chair, wow, what beauties! As I gained back my awareness, I saw that one beauty I hesitated to contact was there too!!!
Btw, until that stage I hadn't payed one cent to the agency!!

OK, now we just take step by step and yes DO NOT FALL IN LOVE before a personal meet, I try my best!!! 

Why can a well connected meeting not work out? Because both draw a blank

Regards
CaddyDaddy

[HiTech]

I wrote for 3 months and had phone calls before my first meeting. All the serious topics were covered via email. 1 hour after meeting I knew it was not going to happen. Ended it 1 day later after making sure what my gut was telling me was true.

It is very hard to know how easy it is to be with some one with letters and phone. Body language can push you away or draw you in.

I believe most of the failed K1's happen via the VO serinario. I have nothing to back this up with. When the VO works all is great and I would see no reason to visit another. But a wise man would plan for the failer of the meeting, because almost first meetings fail.

[Kuna]

Who knows... but I'd say the following could contribute:

- unrealistic expectations (i.e. crazy age gaps, fat bald guy dreaming of Miss Universe, dating challenged at home - hopeful stud in FSU);

- creating unrealistic expectations prior to meeting (i.e. only sending your 'best pics" that you look 10 yrs younger in, bragging about how fab you are and turning up with a booger on your nose);

- being disrespectful by dressing or acting like a grub... or just being culturally insensitive;

- WMVM and sitting in a date thinking about the next hottie you're going to meet.


All in all, we know it's a gamble but there are things you can do to impact the odds.

[Shadow]

I had a meeting where it was clear that the match was not at a level to share our life.
However the match was good enough to remain friends.

The reason was that a VO guy met a MV woman, and her quest for what she wanted as perfect partner was not matching my calm and thoughtful disposition.

[Gator]

I have communicated with someone by daily emails and phone calls for the past three months. We seem to be well connected.  I am planning to meet her next month.....I have mixed feelings, since I have also read that many wrote for months and then met; however the meeting lasted for only 30 minutes.

Now is too late to evaluate clues whether she could be your dream woman.  You are committed to the trip, so go and find out.  However, do not rush to judgment.  While it is all about feelings, initial reactions can betray you.  

Ambach, patience is particularly advisable for you.  You had some crazy ideas when you first started this venture, and given time you have begun to see the light.   The same with this woman - take your time, immerse yourself in her culture, have fun together, discuss your values and goals, etc. - see where that takes the two of you.

Meeting a RW is unlike what most of us have done in the past.  Unless a man has met many RW in the past, the initial meeting will have its cloudy moments.  There is not the clarity to make a definitive decision.  

A 30-minute decision seems immature. It is probably one based mostly on physical parameters.   So it is probably good for the the woman that the two fizzled out, given that the man is focusing on physical beauty.  Or perhaps he (or she) is expecting his (her) soulmate at the onset.  

Personally, I think a couple of days are necessary because any relationship requires adjustment to each other, and that takes time.  During the first 30 minutes, a RW (or AM) could be nervous and simply not the same as on the telephone.

[Blues Fairy]

In my case, it worked out because we became good friends long before we even thought of meeting each other, much less entertained any romantic thoughts.  The first meeting was failure-proof because we met as old pals, so even if no chemistry had sparked we would still have had a great time. 

[groovlstk]

Who knows... but I'd say the following could contribute:

- unrealistic expectations (i.e. crazy age gaps, fat bald guy dreaming of Miss Universe, dating challenged at home - hopeful stud in FSU);

- creating unrealistic expectations prior to meeting (i.e. only sending your 'best pics" that you look 10 yrs younger in, bragging about how fab you are and turning up with a booger on your nose);

- being disrespectful by dressing or acting like a grub... or just being culturally insensitive;

- WMVM and sitting in a date thinking about the next hottie you're going to meet.


All in all, we know it's a gamble but there are things you can do to impact the odds.

Kuna, this may be true in some cases but tells only one side. There are plenty of men who thought they shared a strong connection before a first meeting only to be underwhelmed during the first date. This happened to me several times and I'm willing to shoulder most of the blame, but the women are certainly not doing all of the rejecting.

[Misha]

My question is when the meetings fizzled out, did n't these guys have any clue before the meeting, and what all those letters and telephone calls were for?  And why did the meetings fizzle out?

Well, I can't comment on the 30 minutes part. But, I can relate my experience as to why writing to one woman for months and talking to her on the phone may not guarantee that you will fall in love with her. Before meeting my wife, I did fall for one woman, and I fell for her quite badly once that we met. The problem: she did not fall for me. There were a number of factors at play, but the main one was that she was still not over her ex-husband. She still had too many issues to deal with to fall for someone else.

[Kuna]

Kuna, this may be true in some cases but tells only one side. There are plenty of men who thought they shared a strong connection before a first meeting only to be underwhelmed during the first date. This happened to me several times and I'm willing to shoulder most of the blame, but the women are certainly not doing all of the rejecting.

Groov,

Acknowledged, that's why I started with "Who knows"...  and qualified my comments by saying the things I listed "COULD" contribute.

Let's face it, there are a million reasons why things wont work out as expected in any relationship, let along ones like we choose to pursue.

I do think that men can do things though to improve their chances.

Expectations are a big thing, and whilst they are hard to manage I still believe it's prudent to do so.

[groovlstk]

Groov,

Acknowledged, that's why I started with "Who knows"...  and qualified my comments by saying the things I listed "COULD" contribute.

Let's face it, there are a million reasons why things wont work out as expected in any relationship, let along ones like we choose to pursue.

I do think that men can do things though to improve their chances.

Expectations are a big thing, and whilst they are hard to manage I still believe it's prudent to do so.

Kuna, I agree... and it probably took me more time than it should have to learn to manage my expectations. The other trick is trying to manager her expectations, which isn't always possible, either. I don't envy guys who are just now entering the dating phase. For Americans, what was once an expensive proposition is now monstrously costly, while rising tensions between the West and Russia fuel lots of resentment and stereotyping.

[Kuna]

The other trick is trying to manager her expectations, which isn't always possible, either.

Groov,

I actively tried to manage My wife's expectations before meeting.  I literally sent a few unflattering photos...  No point making her think I look like George Clooney ALL  the time...  I have my Danny Devito days too!   

[dneid]

.... while rising tensions between the West and Russia fuel lots of resentment and stereotyping.

Hey, Groovlstk,
I was just thinking about this the last few days with the Georgia issues and the deterioration of relations with Russia.  Now, I have only visited Ukraine, but one must wonder what the impact of these kind of geopolitical issues will have.  We can all howl from the rooftops about how stereotypes are unfair, but they are a reality.
Just my 2 cents.

[groovlstk]

Hey, Groovlstk,
I was just thinking about this the last few days with the Georgia issues and the deterioration of relations with Russia.  Now, I have only visited Ukraine, but one must wonder what the impact of these kind of geopolitical issues will have.  We can all howl from the rooftops about how stereotypes are unfair, but they are a reality.
Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, it's definitely an issue, moreso in Russia but doubtless in Ukraine, also. Whenever my wife phones home now her family asks about how people are treating her here, etc., as the Russian media is pinning much of the blame on the US. I make a point to show my wife that not all US media outlets are Russophobic - there are plenty of analyses that point fingers at both Putin and Saakashvili without making it into good guys vs. bad guys.

Among our Russian friends in the US the rumor mill is as strong as ever. One woman who was scheduled to return home to visit her family in Samara postponed her trip because she's afraid she won't be allowed back in the US if sentiment towards Russia continues to worsen. I tried to reason with her but it's useless 

[steviej]

I have experience of this which is relevant although it wasn't with a Russian woman.

I came into contact with a Norwegian woman through an online dating site; I think she contacted me originally. We exchanged mails for a while, several weeks I think and it was unbelievable how well matched we seemed to be. I can't say that I've ever had that impression of rightness before. She lived about 90 minutes from me and I invited her for dinner; it was total disaster. There was no chemistry in the slightest; it was extremely bizarre.

Did you exchange lots of photos with that girl? When I first discovered internet dating for AWs, I learned pretty quick that more, much more, than just the "headshot" was required. I don't want to sound too cruel, but I learned the hard way that the BBWs had mastered the art of the overhead headshot, that somehow concealed that they were fat. And they would lie about the weight on the profile. ....    Man, you talk about a quick ending to a date, you walk in, and there's a woman who's 30 lbs heavier than she said she was ...

But for ambach, and anyone, just in the chemistry department, there should be an exchange of LOTS of photos, daily life photos, especially including full-figure and so forth. If you're just getting headshots ... watch out !! Are you just getting glamour shots ? ... watch out!! And what are you sending her? Make sure you send her the real gravy on yourself too. And don't lie about your height or weight. I even listed my height as a little less than I really am. (I listed my height as 5'4" although I am really 6'8" ... LOL just kidding!)

[Ade]

Did you exchange lots of photos with that girl? When I first discovered internet dating for AWs, I learned pretty quick that more, much more, than just the "headshot" was required. I don't want to sound too cruel, but I learned the hard way that the BBWs had mastered the art of the overhead headshot, that somehow concealed that they were fat. And they would lie about the weight on the profile. ....    Man, you talk about a quick ending to a date, you walk in, and there's a woman who's 30 lbs heavier than she said she was ...

But for ambach, and anyone, just in the chemistry department, there should be an exchange of LOTS of photos, daily life photos, especially including full-figure and so forth. If you're just getting headshots ... watch out !! Are you just getting glamour shots ? ... watch out!! And what are you sending her? Make sure you send her the real gravy on yourself too. And don't lie about your height or weight. I even listed my height as a little less than I really am. (I listed my height as 5'4" although I am really 6'8" ... LOL just kidding!)

I'm not sure what you'd consider to be "lots" but yes we exchanged some photos. But looks are only a part of equation; one of the women we have working with us is a 30 year old typical slim hot blond Scandinavian babe and up until she got kids she exuded not one iota of sexuality. It was like looking at a picture in a magazine; nice to look at but a little flat and 2 dimensional. For some reason after she'd had her first kid the amount of sexuality she exuded - and don't ask me to define this because I can't - and her attractiveness went through the roof. And the cooler talk generally agreed on this.

And that's exactly how it was with the date I had, just very flat with no sexual chemistry or any other chemistry for that matter. So I don't think that removing all doubt about compatibility before a face to face is possible and even if you seem to be a perfect match at a distance it can still crash and burn in the first few minutes or hours.

[Ben Armen]

Did you exchange lots of photos with that girl? When I first discovered internet dating for AWs, I learned pretty quick that more, much more, than just the "headshot" was required. I don't want to sound too cruel, but I learned the hard way that the BBWs had mastered the art of the overhead headshot, that somehow concealed that they were fat. And they would lie about the weight on the profile. ....    Man, you talk about a quick ending to a date, you walk in, and there's a woman who's 30 lbs heavier than she said she was ...

Stevie, You are sooo right about the large American Women.  When describing body type, they really think size 20 is average!!!  Have you seen the AW personals lately, I haven't seen so many pictures above the waist since the Roosevelt Administration!!!

Don't fall in love with pictures or email.  IMHO you don't know a person until you meet them face to face.  I did not email women until I met them.  That is why you are better off meeting 5-10 women in a city that writing and visiting one.  If you do you are in danger of being emotionally attached to a woman that youwill justify her real faults... that is the mistake I made in marriage #1, long distance (Across state lines) email before meetings and seeing problems through rosed colored glasses.  Spend as much time face to face as possible and make the courtship as long as possible. 

[Ade]

Stevie, You are sooo right about the large American Women.  When describing body type, they really think size 20 is average!!!  Have you seen the AW personals lately, I haven't seen so many pictures above the waist since the Roosevelt Administration!!!

I see similar things to this written a lot here about "fat AW" but in at least some of the pictures of the guys hunting for RW, I don't see toned athletic guys either...

And I'm in no way implying that you are overweight as I've no idea but sometimes I get a feeling that there is a measure of hypocrisy in posts like this. Maybe I've got this wrong but it seems to me that a lot of guys seem to think there's nothing wrong for them to be overweight, at least it's not considered a cardinal sin, but those same guys will not tolerate the same in the women they look for.

[Shadow]

I see similar things to this written a lot here about "fat AW" but in at least some of the pictures of the guys hunting for RW, I don't see toned athletic guys either...

And I'm in no way implying that you are overweight as I've no idea but sometimes I get a feeling that there is a measure of hypocrisy in posts like this. Maybe I've got this wrong but it seems to me that a lot of guys seem to think there's nothing wrong for them to be overweight, at least it's not considered a cardinal sin, but those same guys will not tolerate the same in the women they look for.

Men need to be looking better as a monkey. And a blue passport and attractive wallet helps a lot too. 
After a recent visit to the zoo, I found out how lucky I am. 

[Ben Armen]

Seriously Jaded,

You are asking a very good and fair question.  i do believe in good old supply and demand. There are very few skinny women so they are selective and demanding.  UW's are more relaxed and with the lack of UM it is more of a male market, as opposed to a female market in America. 

Personally speaking, I am a very active man in my 40's definately not a couch potato.  I am not satisfied with my weight but people around me say I am average.

I hope that answers your question.

Ben 

[Gator]

After a recent visit to the zoo, I found out how lucky I am. 

I don't know, Shadow.  Some of these monkeys have a brilliant red popka.  What's not to like about a red popka.