BeSmart's trip to Crimea, Part 1 - Preface

[BeSmart]

Okay, so this is my trip report from my recent trip to Sevastopol, Ukraine. I’m a 32 year old good looking pilot and travel worldwide for a living, but this was my first time to Eastern Europe. I wrote to many and went to see one primary girl and a few others, as a backup and to get some perspective. Long story short, the primary girl turned out to be an angel and the trip was a success. I’m sure I had plenty of luck on my side, but I think I was also smart and hopefully someone can take something from this and others can add to it.

About being smart. I just want to write a few paragraphs about attitude and frame of mind when it comes to women and dating. These are only my humble opinions that work for me personally. If you want to skip ahead to the trip itself, it’s down there somewhere.

There was a time when I played the whole romance-courting-nice-guy-wins-the-prize approach like in the movies. That didn’t work so well, despite a few serious relationships after high school. I traded a lot of my time, money, and self respect for ladies’ approval and was actually surprised when they lost interest. Maybe we all have that phase. I know a lot of guys spend their whole lives as an average frustrated pushover. It’s not necessary.

So I decided to get educated and have control over my love life. I wanted to be the kind of guy that naturally attracts women and at the same time has a really cool life that gives me happiness and satisfaction, alone or in a relationship.  I found some great gurus on the subject, like David Deangelo and started to integrate a better outlook into my daily life. I learned to be confident, cool and funny, and not so attached to the outcome of everything.

I became a real man. They noticed. Life is good. 

IMHO, women want to be swept away in an exciting, passionate adventure. They want a challenging, unpredictable, socially savvy leader of men and they are attracted to a guy who is on his path in life and who makes his environment work for him. They want a guy who can feel her heart and who sees her for who she is, a smart, beautiful being with all her flaws and insecurities and who celebrates her energy . They want to be led, and to be able to depend on him to be creative and decisive, no matter what happens. This is true for all women, no matter what country she is from. I think those guys are right on this forum when they ask someone, “Are you the kind of guy who can attract and keep the kind of woman you want?”  It’s a question everyone should ask themselves.

If you don’t “get it” with high quality women, if you see them as some unattainable goddesses that you hope to win over (buy) with gifts and attention, and think that you can travel to some other country where they won’t care that you are a lonely, weak, unsophisticated, uncultured, unsocialized clod with no idea how to truly ravish a woman, or if you are bitter from some event or disgruntled about females in general, then I would only say that you’re asking for a world of disappointment. You have to work on yourself first. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but you can’t expect some innocent Russian girl who only wants a happy life to settle for you if you haven‘t got your life together. Guys here would probably tell you that she wouldn’t stick around long anyway. 

Could I grab a 10+ model off the street and have her in my bed same night? Probably not, I’m no pick up artist and that doesn‘t interest me anyway. But I sure wouldn’t treat her differently from anyone else and even if that frustrated her at first, she’d end up respecting me for it later. (And probably chasing me if I made her laugh.)

But that brings me to why I am here. I don’t want that 10+ model walking down Collins Ave. Because I know what comes with the pretty face here in America. A whole bunch of BS that I don’t find acceptable. I’m sure I don’t have to go on much about this, you all already know. It’s unfortunate for beautiful American ladies, I don’t think it’s their fault. They don’t intentionally have ugly personalities. Our society somehow enables low class, selfish, flaky behavior. I wish I knew why. And it’s not all of them, of course. I have known and loved some gems.

I have known some guys who are very happy with their Russian wives. And I dated some Russian girls living in Florida, and they her clearly different. The more I read about this whole thing, the more it felt right to me.

I have a great desire to have a wonderful devoted wife, a little family, and a happy home. I imagine that will be the best part of my life. I have those traditional values. She does have to be gorgeous, 18-25 and petite, I know what I like and you can say what you want about superficiality, but I don’t apologize for who I am and my desires, after all, this is a world of abundance. But that’s not enough, and I also want what you all want. A sweet, loving, cheerful, dedicated, smart, faithful, honest girl who shares my values and dreams.

So I went to the agencies...

[BeSmart]

So I went to all the agencies and picked the ladies that were pretty enough and started the Big Letter Writing campaign. What a waste! I spent a lot of time and money and it didn’t seem to go anywhere. I would think I had a connection and then I’d get some silly letter about the history of the Crimean War or a letter for someone else! I remember once I thought I had a good one, in Voronezh. She was on AnastasiaWeb. I wanted to send her flowers for her birthday, so I asked her for her address in a letter, she gave it and I Googled “flowers Voronezh” and found Steve from “With Love From Voronezh.” Great guy.

I told him what I wanted to do and paid about $40 for a flower delivery and birthday card. I gave him a photo so he could make sure he found the right girl. Imagine my surprise when he emailed me the next day and said there was a woman at the apartment that was not her, too young to be her mother, said the girl didn’t live there but he should leave the flowers anyway!

I tried it again with another one. This time the girl was there but had no idea who I was! Despite several charming letters? She didn’t want these flowers from a stranger. I don’t blame her.

I was frustrated. How can I make a connection with a girl if I no longer trust that the letters are real? Then I saw a way to use the whole flower delivery thing to my advantage. If the person (criminal) writing the letters will give me the address of the girl in the photos, then I will just treat the delivery like my introduction to her. I made contact with some reputable agencies from each city, some from Jims List and some that I found on my own. I explained what I wanted to do and most were willing and understanding, even though I was not a member of their agency. Just ask me and I can probably give you the contact info for a trustworthy person in almost every city in the Ukraine who would be happy to help anyone do the same as I have.

So I made a page with several of my photos, a profile, and a nice one page intro letter that she could read on the spot. It said something like “Hi Tatiana, my name is ______. Maybe you don’t know me but that’s okay. I am (this kind of guy) living in America with (this kind of life) and I’m looking for (this kind of girl). Maybe you are like this and maybe you are looking for the same. I would be delighted if you would contact me, now you have all my info. If you don’t speak English, my friend who delivered these flowers to you would be happy to work with us for translation. I must insist on only this direct communication between us, because trust and sincerity is very important when it comes to matters of love. I hope to hear from you soon”

Then I wrote a few agency letters, mostly through Anastasia Web.  Knowing that it was all bogus, I played the nice guy game and within the second letter, I asked for the girls address because I thought it would be fun to send her a little something special. Sometimes I had to press a little or complain to the administration if it was not given, but I usually got the address. Then I would order my little flower delivery intro thing, with a photo of the girl, through my trusted friend and wait for the results.  Yes, it is an expensive intro, but for me it was worth it to know the truth from the beginning. If she was not real and interested, at least I knew and I could move on.

(By the way, luckily I never used the AW’s own flower delivery system, and it’s a good thing. I would later find out that they reuse photos of each girl with a bouquet in her hands and a big smile, they send it to you and tell you how happy she was! I also never used their phone service. I don‘t know that it is a scam, but  after the trust has been broken, how would I know who is the voice on the other end?)

Conclusion: Based on my personal experience in over 20 “third party flower deliveries” to ladies on their website: AnastasiaWeb is a complete and total scam. Try to argue that with me, I have all the evidence. You are a fool if you think you are actually writing to the girl in the photo. I guess they can play oblivious up there in Maine because the crime is really being committed in Ukraine, but isn’t it easy to play stupid with pockets full of American cash! This is the topic of another post of course, but the results speak for themselves.

22 girls. I would say 30% of the address went  nowhere. It was false altogether or the lady did not exist there and no one knew her. Of the rest, 90% did not know me. They never wrote to me or saw my profile before. Some knew that they were on AW and received gifts all the time, they loved it but had no intentions of meeting the guy, they said “not interested“. Some did not even know that they were on the website. Neither did their parents! Someone saw their photo on the Russian Classmates website and contacted them to see if they wanted to do a photo shoot for fun. They got a copy of the photos and became the newest girl on AW, which they were told nothing about. Two girls were underage, 17! I got an email from a father who suggested we just be friends and I could teach her English! One girl was found to be working for the agency. She knew me alright. She wrote letters all day, impersonating these poor girls for a living. Sometimes they did not look as good in real life, sometimes better, sometimes bigger, much bigger. And sometimes the girls would be nice and interested, and email me or agree to write through my trusted friend, and we would start a nice correspondence, making it all worth it.

[BeSmart]

There was a girl I wanted to meet in Sevastopol, Oksana and she was exceptionally cute in the photos. I didn’t know any local agencies there, and luck and Google threw me a pearl. I emailed and I met Tonya. She and her Dutch husband, Robin own and run “Crimean Pearls” and “Kozak Travel.” I talked to her about what I wanted to do and what had happened so far. She was immediately very friendly and easy to get along with and she seemed like she genuinely wanted to see couples get together. I gave her the address and photos of Oksana and my three attachments like nornal. I would later find out that Tonya called Oksana first, to set up a time for the delivery. Of course, the girl did not know me and did not want them. I would later find out that Tonya pressed her, saying something like, “You really should take these. This guy is really good looking and he seems great and he just wants to introduce himself to you” Cool, huh?

Next day I get a wonderful email. “Oksana is a nice girl. She did not know you or know she was on this website. She has never known a foreign man. She was impressed with your attention and profile and wants to write to you. She is going to write a letter and I will translate it” You guys should have seen these photos that Tonya took. First, the nicest flower bouquet I had seen in Ukraine. But Oksana was beautiful, and looking sincerely happy and flattered. She sent a letter right away.

So Oksana and I wrote to each other for about three months through Crimean Pearls. It meant so much to me to have 100% real contact with such a sweetheart. This was the best case scenario in my mind: A girl who did not seek out a relationship with foreign guy in the first place, (not a dater) but who was delighted about the whole thing after being introduced to me. Tonya’s translating is great, she would write more than just the words, but also the meaning of what Oksana was trying to say, even side explanations if they were required. We had a few video chats which was tons of fun, a great way to see someone’s mannerisms. Oksana was shy and nervous, but laughed at all my jokes and seemed to genuinely enjoy herself. And she always said something like, “When will you come to see me?” which was nice to hear.

I also continued to try some more girls in Sevastopol, which became almost a comical exercise. I appreciated Tonya’s personal input about each one. She was not afraid to tell me whether a girl was nice or trouble.

Oh by the way, I have to mention that one girl, also in Sevastopol knew about me, had written her letters through AWeb and wanted to continue. One girl out of 22! She was very sweet, but was clearly pressured to not allow any contact outside of the agency. I wrote a few times but then let her make the choice. Me or your agency. No more letters. We did make contact while I was there but did not meet because of schedules (lack of effort).

It became clear that I would pick Sevastopol as my destination. It seemed like a great place, South Crimea, warm climate, kind of a tourist destination for Eastern Europeans, plenty of attractions and things to do, and of course the generous help of my new friends at Crimean Pearls. Every question was answered and explained. Tonya would be able to arrange travel for any girls from other cities to come to Sevastopol while I was there and organize the meetings. She asked me if maybe I wanted to place an add in the local paper before I come, to see if I could meet any girl who were not in an agency. Good idea. I got off work the last two weeks of August and announced my plans to come to Ukraine. At that point I had Oksana as the primary girl  I wanted to meet, one from Odessa that later didn’t happen and I had sent out a few last minute letters to girls from those buy-an-address sites, which didn’t amount to much either. Plus whatever would happen from the newspaper add. I was so excited to take this adventure that all the prep work and money spend on failed attempts didn’t matter much. In hindsight I realize that I would have been just fine rolling up and meeting girls on the street and in the shops and supermarket.  But I’m glad it worked out like it did.

The travel agency end of things was handled by Robin, who mostly runs the Kozak Travel and Sevastopol Apartments end of the business. He was great to work with. I chose an apartment by the beach area Omega. It was actually two apartments that were connected. I thought, if I had a girl in from out of town, I would not want her to feel uncomfortable about sharing a bed on the first night, this way she could have privacy if she wished. I made a Paypal deposit and received an email confirmation and packet from Robin with all the information I could possibly need. Everything was there, contact information, info about Kiev Airport, where to go, and what to do, and when. Even tips on avoiding the crazy taxi drivers! Very professional, I felt completely prepared.

I shifted my sleep schedule to Ukraine time a few days before, because I hate jet lag. I used my Jet Blue points for the trip to JFK and the rest of the trip I booked through Cheap Tickets, $1300 round trip to Simferopol, the airport closest to Sevastopol. Not bad I thought. 

[BeSmart]

8/20 Wednesday

Woke up, fully packed from the day before. I had my big wheely and my carry-on one. The big one had some gifts and most of my clothes and toiletries and the carry-on one had my laptop, a travel pillow and blanket and a few changes of clothes and essentials, in case they lost my luggage. 9AM Taxi to FLL, ten minutes from my place and then Jet Blue to JFK. Get my luggage and take the tram to the Delta Teminal, stand in line for bout 45, security and a pizza slice. Go to the gate and I’m immediately aware that I am already in Ukraine! Everyone is speaking Russian, some cute girls in that particular style that I have come to love, and some typical Russian men and families.

I forgot to mention this but I had been learning Russian from the Pimsleur audio course and Rosetta Stone. I felt confident getting what I want accomplished and having simple friendly conversation. (I would later find out how crucial this was to building a connection with a girl who knew little English.) So I switched to Russian mode, but nothing was required here except Please and Thank You, and a few Excuse Me’s. I got the window and a guy sits down next to me, says something, I say something and off we go. Nice flight. They kept us fed enough and I slept in between orange juice and water. Glad I bought the good neck pillow, fleece blanket, and my trusty iPhone loaded with some sleepy chill out music.

8/21 Thursday, after a 9 hour flight, 10AM

Land in Kiev Borispol airport. I’m in Ukraine! I can feel it, that unfamiliar energy, a foreign land. Okay, it’s true, Russians really do push and shove and kind of move together an unorganized mass. There is no order or courtesy, but no one seems to care. If there is a space to fill, someone is pushing his way into it. We go downstairs to customs. Long line, two officers. Another few open up and I push my way over there with everyone else. I notice I’m in a Ukrainian Citizens Only line but it’s to late and it doesn’t matter anyway. Passport stamped without a word. Then it’s over to the bag claim. The ramp guys must throw a bag or two onto the belt and then strike for more pay or something because it takes forever. One bag. Time for a drink. Another bag. What were we doing here again? Oh yea. Finally here it comes and I’m off. No search or anything, only if you have something to declare. It the busy terminal, as expected, about 50 taxi drivers want to “help” me, but I say nyet, I know where I’m going. I become instantly aware of the beautiful girls everywhere, dressed  to kill, to me standing out like gorgeous sore thumbs, but apparently invisible to everyone else as I walk outside and over to the domestic terminal in the hot stuffiness.

I find a chair inside and sit down. They announce when it’s time to check in, first in Russian, then Ukrainian, then English. but I have over three hours. I change 20 bucks and grab a few waters. To my surprise, they are carbonated, but whatever. Two girls walk past looking like Barbie dolls notice me. I must look foreign but I am dressed for comfort, jeans and T-shirt. Cute dark haired girl, about 19 with her mom giving me lots of smiles, but I feel like I look haggard. Eventually, I check in and go to the next area, sweat and wait an hour after scheduled departure time for the Aerosvit flight to Simferopol. No one cares. We bus out to the plane and push our way on and I fall asleep immediately.

Hour and a half later, Simferopol is just as hot but cleaner air. We all get on a bus that basically does a U-turn and we get off again. The baggage claim is funny, outdoor and tiny. They might as well just dump our luggage on the ground and let us sort it out.  And sure enough, there is my driver waiting for me with his Kozak Travel sign. Seemless!
 
(Tonya later told me about how many guys she meets at the airport, totally lost and wondering where the girl is that promised to meet him there. They wrote all those letters! Where is she? She’s living her life, oblivious to his existence of course. Tonya will often help these guys get home or stay and make the best of it, but I can’t imagine how much that would suck. Be smart!)

We get into a nice car and drive through Simferopol on our hour and  half ride to Sevastopol and my apartment. Now I’m sure I didn’t see the nice part of town, but it was not pretty. I mean, really ghetto. You gotta love the girl in heels walking through the gravel and dirt walkways. And my first experience with Ukrainian roads and drivers. Hold on! Typical European make-your-own-rules. Love it.

We arrive and Robin is there at the apartment building. He introduces himself, shows me how to use the electronic key on the main door and we go up in the tiny elevator. The apartment is great. Clean and big, like I said it’s really two full apartments connected. AC, full kitchen, the whole works. We open the balcony window, lean out and Robin points out the beach, internet café, supermarket, and the Omega bar and café area. He changes a hundred buck from his own wallet and tell me where to grab dinner. I remember nothing, thank him for everything and take a shower. I don’t call Oksana because there is no way I’m doing anything eat and sleep. Walk over the restaurant called Contrebus, a nice place on a hill over looking Omega with indoor and outdoor seating. Nice dinner, some kind of chicken salad. Off to bed. I made it

[Mod3]

I took the liberty to merge the parts in to one.
You can add the next part of the story by 'Add reply'.

[BeSmart]

Friday, 8/22

I call Tonya and we agree to meet at Contrebus at noon. She’s a cute, friendly, stylish woman who gets right down to business. She gives me a local cell phone that I can use to call or text anyone cheap. She tells me that Oksana called last night to see if I arrived okay. How sweet. But Oksana also said she is sick with a fever and going strait to bed. I admit that for a second I felt that sinking feeling of being had! But they just spoke a few hours ago and she’s still sick but she will not miss the chance to meet me, all I have to do is say the word and she will come. I say the word! Tonya calls and asks Oksana to come to Contrebus. She needs an hour to get there. “You were supposed to be ready”, says Tonya. She is dressed, she just has to finish her makeup. I laugh and tell her I have all the patience in the world for a girl who wants to look her best for me!

Tonya suggests we go to the Supermarket while we wait, a great idea because I need some breakfast food, munchies, wine, and bottled water. Robin actually picks us up and takes us there. It’s an amazingly nice place, like some of the better supermarkets I’ve seen in Europe where you can get a TV, shoes, and a motorcycle, along with your juice and lunch meat. We run back to the apartment, drop off my stuff and then back to the restaurant.

It’s not too long and I see her coming up the street. Even if I didn’t know what she looked like, I would notice Oksana and that long blond hair in that short little dress. She saw me and smiled and I got up to meet her at the steps. Wow. And whew. It’s a surreal experience to be standing face to face for the first time with a girl you feel like already know, especially one so totally stunning. She was certainly “my type” in the body department and the way she was so “put together” down to every detail, and that it was all for me, almost made me loose my cool. Perfect makeup, bright blue eyes, a tiny dress that hugged her petite frame and barely reached past her rear, and heels that easily brought her 5’3” up to a good 5’7”  I love that. I kissed her on the cheek, she on mine, and led her by the hand over to our table, pulled out her chair and she sat down. Tonya and her said hi like old friends. We started talking, pausing after every few sentences so Tonya could translate. It was actually pretty natural. Of course I can only guess the actual conversation, but anyway, this is the jist:

I said, ”Sitting with you now, I still can’t believe I’m really here. This is great.”
She: Do I look like what you thought I would?
I: Better. How are you feeling?
She: Not good. I went to the hospital and got some antibiotics but they will take a few days to work. I’m  sorry.
I: It’s okay, I’m flattered that you would come here anyway. I have 8 days, we have plenty of time. I understand if you need to rest, I want you to feel better.
She: Yea, my parents will come pick me up after lunch.
I: That’s fine (I notice she is really nervous. She’s fidgeting and not looking into my eyes. I put my hand on hers) Are you nervous? (She says yes) Well it’s okay, you don’t have to be nervous around me. I like you already. And I will always do my best to make you feel comfortable. I’m very easy to get along with. (I don’t think it helped much, but at least I said it. The next thing is something that Elena from Elena’s Model’s advises guys to say right away.) I also want to tell you that this is something totally new to me, talking through an interpreter.
She: Everything is new to me!
I: Haha, yea well I just want to say that there is bound to be some misunderstandings. Especially when Tonya is not here. My Russian is very basic. But I want you to know that I will never intentionally hurt your feeling or say something rude. If that happens, it’s just a language thing and I will be happy to explain it better. (She seemed to understand)

She pulls out a beach towel with a map of Crimea on it and gives it to me. Cool. “Well, as long as we’re giving presents, I have one for you. It’s a very serious present, maybe the best one you have ever gotten.”
(She said in one of our video chats that my teeth were really white and that she wanted teeth like that too. So I went to the costume store and bought two of those hillbilly teeth inserts. I reminded her about the conversation and slipped mine in while she was opening it. She looked up at me smiling with these goofy teeth and laughed her butt off. She put hers on and we took a picture together. It was a big hit!) “I actually have a real present, it’s a necklace I got in Tahiti, made out of an oyster shell” I put it on and she loved it, looking at the flower carving on it. I also give her a small two-way dictionary for us to use together. Little did I know how important that thing would become.

She asked me about the trip, what my family thought of my coming here. We ordered lunch and I got a Greek salad and she got this weird plate with a banana, red hard candy syrup, and ice cream. Whatever.

She: So I bet you met a lot of girls on that website. (Gotta love the Russian direct method of conversation)
Me: Do you really want to talk about that? (She’s not sure. I pause and make sure she’s looking at me.) Oksana, I’m here to meet you. You are the one I want to know better. But that doesn’t mean that there is any pressure. Maybe it will work out, maybe not, that’s okay with me. Lets just have fun and see what happens.

More pleasant small talk. I make it a point to tell her that she is beautiful and that’s great, I love how she takes care of herself, but it is not enough for me. I came to find a girl who is just as beautiful on the inside, because she will not always look this way. She contradicts me, “Oh yes I will!” Very funny.  Eventually she calls her parents to pick her up.

Tonya announces she has to go and helps us make plans for the next day, touring the City Center . I know she is really just forcing us to be alone together, which is good, but Oksana does not look ready for this and I secretly agree.

And there we are. All my Russian is gone, maybe I left it in the restroom or back in the plane. Not even a “Mne gravistsa ti” I pay the bill and manage to ask her where her parents will come. Over there, so we get up and go. I put out my hand for her as we walk down the steps, she takes it but then lets go at the street. We walk past souvenirs and fruit booths and I point and ask, ”Shto eta?” just to break the silence. Of course she can’t tell me and we just smile, she looks mostly at the ground. I take a few photos and her parents roll up. She looks at me and in perfect English says, “It was so nice to meet you!” She must have been rehearsing it, how sweet! Her parents smile and wave at me. (Good, at least they know about me) And she’s gone.

It went by way too fast. What to think? She’s gorgeous, sweet and very shy.  It’s endearing, but there’s no indication that she is into me, which is to be expected I guess. Da zavtra.

I spend the rest of the day at the beach, which is not full of cute girls. I eat again at Contrebus and take a long walk around Omega. Long, good sleep.

[BeSmart]

Thanks Mod3. I wasn't sure if that's how you wanted it. I just posted Part 5 separetly so maybe you could merge that and the rest I will add onto this post.

People can reply to this, right?

[Mod3]

Merge completed. Now we have to wait for the membership replies. [smiles and waves]

[Lily]

It’s not too long and I see her coming up the street. Even if I didn’t know what she looked like, I would notice Oksana and that long blond hair in that short little dress. She saw me and smiled and I got up to meet her at the steps. Wow. And whew. It’s a surreal experience to be standing face to face for the first time with a girl you feel like already know, especially one so totally stunning. She was certainly “my type” in the body department and the way she was so “put together” down to every detail, and that it was all for me, almost made me loose my cool. Perfect makeup, bright blue eyes, a tiny dress that hugged her petite frame and barely reached past her rear, and heels that easily brought her 5’3” up to a good 5’7”  I love that. I kissed her on the cheek, she on mine, and led her by the hand over to our table, pulled out her chair and she sat down. 

For me, this would be one of the most exciting moments in a TR. Virtual contacts goes into a real one. First impression that would last long. I'd be very curious to know what was her thinking of BeSmart on same things.

She: So I bet you met a lot of girls on that website. (Gotta love the Russian direct method of conversation)
Me: Do you really want to talk about that? (She’s not sure. I pause and make sure she’s looking at me.) Oksana, I’m here to meet you. You are the one I want to know better. But that doesn’t mean that there is any pressure. Maybe it will work out, maybe not, that’s okay with me. Lets just have fun and see what happens.
 

I think this is a thing that goes often in female mind when meeting a man on dating sites. IMHO her hidden agenda would be that she is one of many. At least I would presume so. Interesting how BeSmart circumvented the topic

It went by way too fast. What to think? She’s gorgeous, sweet and very shy.  It’s endearing, but there’s no indication that she is into me, which is to be expected I guess. Da zavtra.

 

She seems to be rather cautious. So no obvious indication that she is into BeSmart. Well, first it takes much longer time for a woman to fall in love. Men are naturally quick, women are slow and cautious, preferring to think that 'he has lots of choices, my chances are little', or are in doubts 'what if..', There are many things going in a female mind that have protective and securing function. Second, I don't think many women show that they are attracted, trying to appear indifferent, but that would be less applicable to online dating.

[Faux Pas]

BeSmart

(rubbing hands together) Eggssellant! Good TR thus far! Great set-up and delivery. You appear very comfortable with your method of circumventing AnastasiaWeb. 22 flower deliveries seems a bit extreme for accomplishing that. Did it not dawn on you to just move on to a more reputable agency?

[BeSmart]

Thanks guys,

Lily, believe me, I would LOVE to know her thoughts at that moment. Maybe someday we'll have that conversation. I can only imagine. I admit, I was nervous too.

She was cautious. Extremely, as I woulds soon see. At first it was frustrating because I couldn't read her. Later it turned out to be a good thing because she was just trying to make sure I was the real deal before she let herself become vulnerable. In hindsight, it proved to me that she was indeed a good girl. If she had been too affectionate too early, I would be sitting here right now wondering if she was like that with everyone. Her hesitation ended up showing me that it was genuine. It was a good lesson to learn.

Faux Pas, I honesty didn't mind the flower delivery method. Keep in mind, I knew they were a scam from the beginning. I wasn't mad about it, I just turned it into my advantage. The girls I chose were drop dead gorgeous, not available on the other reputable agencies because they didn't think to go there. It was actually better for me if they had not gone to the agency on their own, because they were less likely to be daters. I started to hope for a nice, innocent girl who was just living her life, and I found several. So someone was making a profit from her photos. Shame on them. (When these girls found out about it, they were upset. They had been lied too. I have emails from them asking me to help them get off the website.) But maybe I could make something positive come out of it. Even if they were indifferent about finding a foreign husband, they were sometimes excited about it after I came to them, wrapped up in a nice bouquet of flowers. If I could only bring that single smile to their day, that's a good thing. Like I said, Oksana was hesitant at first, but then thrilled about the attention from the first American she had ever known. I think it was flattering that I had made the effort. I was clear in my letter that there is no pressure, I just want to say hi and see if we might be a match.   

[SANDRO43]

I’m a 32 year old good-looking pilot

You can add yourself to the list here http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2657.0, then (sorry, no specific choices offered for looks ).

BTW, good spontaneous T/R so far .

[BeSmart]

Cool! I tell ya, wish I would have had access to my boss's plane for this trip. I'd have been able to go FLL direct to Simferopol and save almost 20 hours off that long day.

[BeSmart]

Saturday, 8/23

Slept in and had a cereal breakfast. I walked right across the street to the internet café and checked my email and inboxes for about ten minutes for half a Hrifna.  I walked down to Contrebus again around 11AM as planned  met Tonya. She had talked to Oksana the night before and she was feeling worse with a fever. I could only feel sympathy for her and guilty for wanting her to spend all day with me. But she was coming, so I adored her even more. 

While waiting, we got into a conversation about age differences.  I didn’t have any doubt about Oksana’s maturity and our gap, but I wanted hear Tonya’s opinion. She said yes, she is young and has much to learn. I would have to teach her a lot, and be very gentle yet, flexible and understanding. She would look to me for guidance in what kind of wife to be and I would have to be firm but forgiving when she makes inevitable mistakes. All of this I know, accept, and look forward too. Tonya also said something that I was happy to hear. She’s always good with her honest impressions, good or bad. She said that as she’s come to know Oksana, she realizes that she’s not a “dumb peasant girl”. She’s smart, she knows what she wants, and her family is supportive and not struggling at all. Cool.

Here she comes. Did I tell you guys she’s gorgeous? Another tiny dress, cute heels. Barbie Doll. I just wanted to scoop her up, throw her over my shoulder and well, you know. Another smile and kiss and we are sitting again in the same place. I make a mental note not to come to this place again. I think routine and predictability are bad for attraction in the beginning. 

She’s still nervous and timid. I can’t help but see it as endearing, and still hope she can find a way to relax. I think about how if she were American, I could calm her easily with some soft words and laid back body language, but I can’t seem to find the way to do this now.  I order a sandwich and she orders a chocolaty ice cream concoction. Does she live on sugar? She says she’s feeling about the same and I say I understand if she is not up for walking around. No way, we’re going. It’s like it is her duty to show me a good time. Okay then.

Me: “It was great meeting you yesterday. I’m so glad we are finally together. There was that time after Tonya left that I know we were both wishing we knew the same language. It was hard because I wanted to tell you things. But then I thought about it later and I wanted to tell you that it’s okay if we can’t find the words. We can just be. People talk too much anyway.”

I think she understood, but I would learn that Oksana needed to experience things for herself before they really effected her. I could tell her things like that, but I would have to show her it was true before it was part of her reality.

I gave her two magazines and explained that they were local Florida magazines that we have. They have articles about new restaurants, events and concerts, shops and fashion, and other things of interest locally. She asked if it was like a fashion magazine. Not really. (I had those but not yet) She paged through them as we ate, and I pointed out some of my favorite places to eat and hang out. She most interested in the  real estate section! She picket out her favorite houses and everything, it was very interesting.

I talked about going to a disco maybe when she was feeling better. They had a long funny conversation that amounted to Oksana not wanting to take me out there for fear of the other girls stealing me away! Cute.

We walked to get a cab to the City Center. Apparently, you have to ask several drivers and weigh the price with the quality of their car he‘s driving. We got there and started walking around. It was nice. It’s mostly all waterfront stuff along Sevastopol harbor, very clean and full of history. There was a custom car contest going on, a bunch of Ukrainian singers, and all kinds of parks and fountains, I got lots of photos.

I was enjoying the day, but I would have liked some together time. There was not much affection or warmth going on.  It was not as easy to flirt through an interpreter. We were having fun, and she was more relaxed, but it felt too much like some friends walking around, and that’s not what I was here for. But okay, I told myself, no problem. Only our second day.  We were time building, just being together building memories. That’s good.

After several hours, we parted ways for the day. It was hot and I know she was not feeling well, I understand. We made plans to see Chersonesos the next day. We took separate cabs, Tonya lives close to Omega and Oksana south of downtown. I asked Tonya on the way home what she thought about everything. She said that Oksana did like me, she even said so. But she didn’t feel comfortable yet, she didn’t know that I was serious. She is young and has never known a foreigner. Fair enough, I thought. It was easy for me to convey that I like her, but maybe not so for her. I like the idea of her coming to her own conclusions about me based on my actions and her feelings and intuition, not what I say.

Said goodbye to Tonya and wondered around for a bit talking to some interesting people, a lady with a tiny horse, some cute girls and their not so happy boyfriends, and a drunk guy with a huge duffle bag of beer. He was like chain drinking, fishing for a new one while swilling the last of the other. He wouldn’t give me one.

Went home and watched a movie before bed. A Good day.

[BeSmart]

Sunday, 8/24

Kind of a similar day. Tonya meets me at the bus stop and hands me a list with four phone numbers. It was the girls who had called from the newspaper add. Cool! I told her I’d SMS them later and see what happened. I pretty much forgot all about it till the next day.

We meet Oksana at Chersonese. It’s ancient Greek ruins from a settlement out on a point near the city center. Very cool. Very hot, lots of walking. Oksana still wasn’t feeling well and this time I could tell. Poor girl, she was trying so hard for me. She wore regular sandals! No less adorable. We went into St Vladimir’s Cathedral, the ladies were given a scarf to wear on their heads. Oksana was also given  a big one to wrap around her waist. I guess tiny mini skirts are not approved. We waded around in the clear beautiful Black Sea. Lots of photos. Oksana showed me a place to stand and make a wish, so we all took turns. Hers was a “secret!” as she put it. I was starting to realize that her English was better than she thought or was letting me think. Same with my Russian, I was coming up with all kinds of good ones. She was walking on some uneven payment, I put out my hand to steady her and said, “Abnimi menya” (Hold me) and they thought it was hilarious. We were definitely starting to have more direct talk, and I was ready for some one on one time. I know Tonya agreed. Still not much affection and flirting, but what can you do while sweating and walking around in the dirt? 

We had lunch at a little café outside the gate to Chersonese. I was starting to feel a little weird myself. Spent some extra time in the restroom. We had sandwiches, some kind of yummy spiked milkshake and some light talk. I told Oksana about the great American word “whatever” and how we use it all the time to mean ”It’s okay if we don’t agree or understand each other completely, we can just blow it off and move on.” Not the first time I’ve talked to a Russian about this and it’s always a funny conversation. I don’t think they have this word or notion. My Russian friends in Florida don’t seem to get it, they need me to fully understand the topic at hand before we move on to a new one. I tease them all the time with a nicely placed “whatever” and it makes them crazy. But Oksana seemed to like it. It would later be the source of lots of laughs, with us trying to find something in the dictionary, and giving up with a “whatever!”

We got to talking about Balaklava, a place I wanted to see outside of Sevastopol, I heard they had a secret underground soviet submarine base that you could tour. I like that stuff. Oksana said, very nonchalant, “Yes, my parents will take us there tomorrow.” It was like it had already been planned. Wow! She wanted me to meet her parents! I was thrilled. I would imagine that’s a big sign, she wouldn’t want that to happen if she wasn’t into me. And it also meant that they wanted to meet me too. Awesome. I’m great with parents. I had to ask how much they know about me. Her and Tonya had what must have been a very funny exchange, Oksana turns to me and says “Secret!” Okay okay. But do they know I came here to meet you? Yes they do.

Don’t forget,  I had already seen them briefly on the first day. They smiled and waved from the car, so I know they approve. Good. The only possible outcome of this is them seeing that I’m a nice guy and treat their daughter well. I can’t loose.

After lunch I turned to her and said, “I’m not feeling very well, I think I’m going to just go back to the apartment and relax. Why don’t you come with me? We can watch a movie and when you are ready, I’ll get a taxi for you.” But she declined, said she had to go take her antibiotic soon and wanted a nap. I said okay, hiding my slight disappointment. “Well, if you want to come over later, I would be happy to have your company.” I knew she wouldn’t come. She was not ready to be alone with me in the apartment. It was okay, she can’t read my mind. She doesn’t know that I really was okay with just relaxing and spending time together.     

I ended up being glad she didn’t come. That night I got sick. It was bad. Spent most of my time in the bathroom. I don’t know what it was, maybe that salad yesterday was washed in the tap water, maybe it was just the whole change of air and diet. By around 10PM I had a fever and chills, so I SMSed Tonya and told her I was sick and may have to cancel my day with Oksana and her parents! She told me not to worry, it’s normal and she would send Robin over with some tablets and I would be fine. Sure enough, he went to the store for me and came over with the medicine. Did I tell you guys that these people are great? I really hope this post gives them some business, they deserve it. Crimean Pearls and Kozak Travel!

Anyway, by morning I was fine! Thanks Robin! 

[Lily]

The fact that Oksana made your company despite feeling sick, speaks a lot in her favor. She seems to be the woman who wants to make people around her happy, and feels that she owes you some time in reply to your taking the trouble to visit her. That would be the best of a RW.

What makes me not quite easy is whether she feels attracted to you. What is going in her mind. Also, we have to count her condition in, sick people usually not very inclined to love, erotic and tenderness. I'd say, she definitely needs some time to understand her reaction on you.

It is good that Tonya asked her about whether she likes you. I'd say her answer is polite and would tell that at least BeSmart does not repulse her. At the same time, she may be too shy and polite to tell out what she really feels, but let's hope for the best.

BeSmart, please recover soon 

[Shadow]

Not a secret what made you sick. It was the milkshake. 
Icecream is one of the most dangerous foods in areas where the tap water is alien.
Locals will not have problems, as they form antibodies at young age.

[KenC]

Besmart,
I have not read your entire trip report, but had to comment on your opening post.  It should be required reading for any guy considering this process.  The guys that get eaten alive are usually the ones without the self confidence you describe.  Great start.  Now I will read the rest.
KenC

[AnastassiaAsh]

BeSmart, interesting TR. i can see you really try to be smart in this. i actually haven't heard anybody trying to change time routine several days before the very trip to avoid jet lag later. That is cool, maybe i will try that myself next time i go back to Moscow. 

I wonder why she was ordering sweet things and ice-cream when she was so sick...did you ask her about that?

i would want to believe that it is more her shyness than anything else that was in the way showing you more affection plus her condition of course. No matter what they say in my opinion shyness and not jumping on your is very good. It just shows that she is a decent and a pretty serious young lady. 

And for the hundredth time i will agree that the number one priority in this process at the beginning is to detach her and you from the agency as soon as possible and make her write you directly from any internet cafe....

[onefourtheroad]

She seems to be rather cautious. So no obvious indication that she is into BeSmart. Well, first it takes much longer time for a woman to fall in love. Men are naturally quick, women are slow and cautious, preferring to think that 'he has lots of choices, my chances are little', or are in doubts 'what if..', There are many things going in a female mind that have protective and securing function. Second, I don't think many women show that they are attracted, trying to appear indifferent, but that would be less applicable to online dating.

i would want to believe that it is more her shyness than anything else that was in the way showing you more affection plus her condition of course. No matter what they say in my opinion shyness and not jumping on your is very good. It just shows that she is a decent and a pretty serious young lady. 

I would like to jump in here, on what has been a very interesting TR. Now many excellent points by all, and as usual, very practical & useful advice and opinions from Lily & Anastassia, but, I want to ask this important point in regard to the shyness, and the man moving too quickly... I have been told many times that I move too slow with my dates with Russian (Ukrainian) women, and that if a woman is REALLY in to you, that you will know right away or soon thereafter in the initial meetings, or perhaps after a 2nd trip???

To Lilly & Anastassia & others, please elaborate more, as I am interested to hear your thoughts, and I am sure this will be of help to others on their FSU dating journeys....

Thanks for an interesting thread....

[Lily]

.. I have been told many times that I move too slow with my dates with Russian (Ukrainian) women, and that if a woman is REALLY in to you, that you will know right away or soon thereafter in the initial meetings, or perhaps after a 2nd trip???

 

onefourtheroad, you touch on a very complicated thing, while there is no correct answer. Or, eventually, it depends on the individual. There are cases when if the woman is not into man in first 5-10 minutes after their first meeting, she will never be. At the same time, there are instances when she became attracted only after several longer meetings, and perhaps some considerable time spent together. No recipe here.

[BeSmart]

My take on that: IMHO of course.

I have heard things like, "She knows within 5 seconds whether or not she will be into you" I disagree.
It's more like, "She knows within 5 second whether or not she will DEFFINATELY NOT be into you." If you're solid, she only then becomes open to the possibility of you turning her on emotionally, physically, and mentally.

She does not choose to feel attraction. It is a response to your behavior.

I love talking to my female friends about this stuff. They provide some amazing "secret" insight. They can pick up on so many subtle things about a man instantaneously. They feel and sense a man's character and strength of his identity. They can tell if you are on your path in life and whether you can be distracted and caught off guard by her feminine energy. (Hopefully you can't) If you are hoping she doesn't notice that you're nervous and feeling "not worthy", it's too late, she already has. She will test you again and again to determine your self worth. It's necessary. She needs to know if you are the real deal that she deserves. It's an almost biological dance and should be embraced.   

This is why I think it's crucial to get yourself together and have a strong, rock solid identity BEFORE you expect to have the kind of fullfillling relationship you desire. (Thanks KenC) No woman can "fill the void" that you can't fill yourself. When a good woman becomes a wonderful compliment to your already great life, then you know you're in the right place, and she will be tickled pink to be with you. Again, Russian Women are terrific, we all know why we prefer them for so many reasons. But they ARE not a solution if you otherwise fail with all women. RW deserve the best too.

Onefourtheroad, great question, man. I don't know if you're moving too slow because I don't know the details, but I would just say this: Always lead. Lead, lead, lead. She looks to you for the right pace. Usually, if you are completely natural and totally confident about what you two are doing, she will follow right along because she feels that you already know everything is going to be great, which brings her a lot of comfort. Of course, if it's too fast because of her own issues, she will tell you and that must always be respected. A nice way to avoid resistance is to take two steps forward and one step back, constantly. It builds anticipation and lets her know that you are in no rush.

I would find that moving from one step to the next with Oksana was much slower than usual for me, but she is way different from any other girl, my first and hopefully last RW. She was extremely shy and inexperienced with men. I was gentle but did not stop leading. It was not till my last night there that I think she fully realized that I was for real and that our relationship would not end when I left. It was worth it to me to be so patient.

I like what AnastasiaAsh said. Her being shy proved to me that she is decent and serious. 

[BeSmart]

You guys think it was the milkshake? Eh, lesson learned. Kind of makes me glad I didn't buy ice cream from that guy on the street. That milkshake sure was good though, I think it had a bunch of cognac in it.

I have no idea why she was eating all the sweet stuff. Maybe because it was also cold and helped her sore throat? I just thought it was amusing. 

They have funny explanations for sickness. She was convinced she caught it from sleeping under the air conditioner. Cold temperature gives you a cold. To my knowledge you have to be infected by someone else, right? I didn't argue. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

It must be hard for a man to figure out if 'the lack of some affectionate actions' is her shyness or more a lack of interest. I personally was very shy 10 years ago, and i know I still am. So from my perspective i can tell you one certain thing - if a lady really likes you but is JUST shy, she will find numerous other ways to show you that she likes you. It can be both hinting or straight conversation calling a spade a spade, but she will always let you know where she stands on this. At least if she is honest and wouldn't want to loose you.

If a woman doesn't really know or unsure about if she likes you or not, she will either be quiet or avoid this topic, and you will see the lack of 'light' in her eyes.

So when you are in doubt - soberly look at her other actions, like if she asks if you are going to meet again or if you are going to come back to her country again, or if she says some compliments to you, or how she reacts to your presents, or if she prepared some presents for you...

i think no matter how shy a woman is, she will be more than pleased if you just hold hands or if you kiss her hand instead of a cheek at the end of the date....

i think such women are very rare, because in our day and age it is unrealistic and also usually before you she already had several serious relationships with Russian men. And it's hard to guess this looking at her age only. You know there are 17 y.o. who have been sexually active for half of their lives, and there are 25 y.o. who have been waiting for their one and only...

[BeSmart]

That's a fantastic point. I guess a lot of men ignore those clear "I'm not into you" indications because they want her so badly. Maybe they then turn on the "Supersized Attention" mode as a solution, which only sends her running away faster. Or the "If she only knew how much I..." thing to creatively avoid looking at themselves as the problem.

At this point I was admittedly having a hard time reading her "signals" but it wasn't time to address it yet. After all, what do I know about Russian signals? I had to consciously tell myself that my past experience with AW is much less relevant here.

It was her actions, just like you say, AnastasiaAsh, that meant the most at this point. She made time for me everyday, despite her ill condition. It was just assumed that we would make plans for the next day and the next. Now, maybe she could have felt obligated, but I read so many other posts about the girl who wouldn't take off work, or had to hang out with her friends etc. And was Oksana introducing me to her parents, who wanted to take me touring the countryside. Actions speak louder than words, right?

I forgot to mention, we had started to SMS before bed each night, where she always said something like, "It is happy to spend this cheerfully time with you!" So that was nice.

Of course I wasn't fooling myself. If there was not some heat between us soon, I would have to show her that I'm willing to walk away...