BeSmart's trip to Crimea, Part 1 - Preface

[DonAz]

Hey BeSmart great Trip report so far. You really seem to have a lot on the ball! This is one of the best TR I've read in a long time! Keep it coming. For a first trip you certainly planned it very well. To me it is amazing how we can find a great Lady ( wife) from half way around the world. You did your home work very well and found some great people you can trust.. I think you should give them kudos in the agency section of the board for the newbies.


I'm glad you were able to figure out all the AW scams on your own. Many guys don't figure them out.

I wouldn't be too concern about affection as of yet. It took me four days of solid all day dating just to get the first kiss from Yulia (she is my wife now).

I see some similarities between you and I. I really went to Russia just to meet Yulia ( she met me at the airport) I did have some back up plans but they really weren't what I was looking for. But I will say that Yulia took two weeks off so that we could spend as much time together as possible. By the end of the trip I proposed and started the k-1 process

I could not tell how in to me ( or in to me at all ) she was until that 4th evening. But the evening was magical. I remember that the she was the last thing I thought about as I went to sleep and the first thing I thought of as I woke up. I knew then I was falling in love. By the end of the trip I proposed to her and started the k-1 process. I wonder if you had the same (or similar) experience.

Please keep posting the rest of your report I am hanging on every word and can't wait to read the conclusion.

All the Best,

DonAz

[SANDRO43]

At this point I was admittedly having a hard time reading her "signals" but it wasn't time to address it yet. After all, what do I know about Russian signals? I had to consciously tell myself that my past experience with AW is much less relevant here.

I'd disagree with that, in the sense that most women's signals are practically universal, and only a minority are culture-related. The real problem is that, under these circumstances, one is usually much too emotionally-involved to notice as a detached observer would, not paying the necessary amount of objective attention .

So if you're as dating-experienced as you said, maybe a visual memory 'playback' of your time together might help. What was her posture when she was sitting at a table with you, mostly leaning forward towards you or backwards away ? Did she occasionally readjust her hair ? Did she keep her arms/legs crossed, or open them up ? Did she move her hands when speaking to you, as if grabbing for the right words out of thin air, or was she static and halting?

All these little subconscious, body-language signals may express a lot about a woman's, or any interlocutor's, state of mind and disposition .

[ScottinCrimea]

Not a secret what made you sick. It was the milkshake. 
Icecream is one of the most dangerous foods in areas where the tap water is alien.
Locals will not have problems, as they form antibodies at young age.

There are literally hundreds of possibilities that are more likely than the milkshake.  I would hesitate to discourage anyone from trying the ice cream in Ukraine as it is wonderful.

How would bad tap water affect ice cream?  I wasn't aware that tap water was one of the ingredients used.  Seems to me it's made up of cream, sugar and flavorings.  Maybe you can explain this to me as I'm not getting it.

[BeSmart]

Hey DonAz, wow it looks like we had a VERY similar expirience. I went primarily to see her and the others just gave me some perspective. It did take several days untill I knew for sure that she was into me, and then the switch just flipped! Like I said, a good, genuine girl needs to feel in her heart that a man is the real deal before she lets herself surrender to him. I'm sure you are right now expiriencing the benifits of your patience. Good for you. She looks beautiful, by the way.

I wish I had two weeks. When I left I felt like we were just getting started! I was nowhere near proposing, all I knew was that I had something special. We had a conversation once about taking our time. I told her I was not going even talk about fiance visas and such untill we both knew we were in love and she was the one I would spend the rest of my life with. She agreed.

Sandro, that's a very good point. Basic human behavior, especially concerning these "courting sequences" (sounds a little clinical, right?) is universal. She dislayed mostly open body language (again sound like I'm on National Geographic) but there was some inconsistencies, mostly (I assumed) because of her nervous shyness, which slowly passed.

I guess what I meant by my comment about my irrevelent expirience WAS a cultural thing, or at least a communication thing. As in "An America girl would do or say this thing at this point." Not doing me any good here.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

KUDOS BeSmart!
EXCELLENT trip report & contributions to the RWD community!!!
Thanks for taking the time to outline your journey from start to present!
Best of luck to you!

[BeSmart]

There are literally hundreds of possibilities that are more likely than the milkshake.  I would hesitate to discourage anyone from trying the ice cream in Ukraine as it is wonderful.

Good. I'm back on Ukrainian ice cream. Thanks Scott.

[Lily]

It's more like, "She knows within 5 second whether or not she will DEFFINATELY NOT be into you." 

IMHO this is true. Lack of attraction shows right away. Attraction cannot be worked out, it is either here or not, it is instinctive.

She does not choose to feel attraction.

 

True again, no woman cannot try and develop attraction to a man. It is subconscious.

It is a response to your behavior.

 

I have to disagree on this, however. Attraction cannot be earned or deserved. If a man behaves like gentlemen, shows his cultured and educated nature, he most likely wins her friendship, but not her feelings and her body. Heh, if we only could earn the attraction of the opposite gender, like they win Olympic medals! Life would be no problem then.

A female response to the man's behavior has a reasonable but not instinctive path. If a handsome attractive tall strong man behaves inappropriately, rudely, woman will go away thinking something like 'it's so pity, what a gorgeous guy, could he not be a decent person, he must have a pathetic life that caused such behavior, would he want me to share his miserable life? I likely perish on his side. Let's run away intil it's too late'.

Now let's imagine a well mannered man, smartly casually dressed, smiling, talkative and interesting. Looking at him people may thing that he is having a good life. (I have seen LOTS of them among WM, and very very few among RM). A woman will enjoys spending time with this man, but she understands that she is not attracted to him because of things that are beyond his and her control. In other words, you are a good friend but I would never be able to fall in love with you. Her reasons appreciate him, but her instincts definitely reject him.

Her behavior may vary at this point. Some chose to let him know that there is no future. Some probably even chose to stay on his side thinking ' I don't love him but he is a good guy, may be something develops later, and if not, I think I could still live with what I have.' Some would permanently ask her inside whether she still could try and squeeze some love for him

[onefourtheroad]

....I would like to post another angle on what has been an informative TR;
Of course there have been numerous scientific studies that have shown that physical attraction between a man & a woman is usually determined in the first 60 seconds, 2 minutes at most. My angle is this, and it was truly what I felt. I met a lady in Ukraine this year, and though in the end it did not work out, our relations lasted for about 8 months. When I first met her, I actually was not physically excited about her, though she certainly had decent looks. What really "attracted" me to her was her overall package. I mean, a combination of her looks, her personality, her intelligence, her kindness, her heart & her love for children. Yes, it is true, 100%, I was attracted to her "whole" package. If I had relied just on the physical aspect of it, we probably would have never of met. Very true. Now as time went on, she became more physically attractive to me, as I saw her whole "presentation" of who she was. It is really hard to explain in words, but I really liked her as a whole. If one element of her great qualities had not been there in the beginning, based on physical aspects alone, we would not have ever of met. True story. ....maybe I'm an exception, but I know I'm not the only one that has felt this way..... Great posts Lily, Anastassia & BeSmart, etc...

[Shadow]

There are literally hundreds of possibilities that are more likely than the milkshake.  I would hesitate to discourage anyone from trying the ice cream in Ukraine as it is wonderful.

How would bad tap water affect ice cream?  I wasn't aware that tap water was one of the ingredients used.  Seems to me it's made up of cream, sugar and flavorings.  Maybe you can explain this to me as I'm not getting it.

In that case... take your pick. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762206.html
You will see that raw milk and related products are one of the main causes.
By the way it never stopped me from eating ice cream. However before my wife arrived my refrigerator contents requested to put out the light on opening the door, so I might have some natural defense. 

[groovlstk]

I have to disagree on this, however. Attraction cannot be earned or deserved. If a man behaves like gentlemen, shows his cultured and educated nature, he most likely wins her friendship, but not her feelings and her body.

Great point, Lily. I think a lot of guys fall into the trap of hoping an indifferent woman will fall in love with him if he treats her like a princess, acts like a gentleman, and waits patiently. Big mistake 

[BeSmart]

Lily, I think we actually do agree on this. I don't mean to imply that a woman is a simple being wondering around subconsiously responding to male behavior. Far from it! Like you said:

If a man behaves like gentlemen, shows his cultured and educated nature, he most likely wins her friendship, but not her feelings and her body.

But what if he behaves that way and ALSO has some additional traits that she picks up on with her wonderful female senses in only a few minutes? Like moving with a sense of purpose, the ability to provide and protect, ease in social situations and expressing himself, and the subtle confidence that he knows exactly how to please her beyond her her wildest imagination. Then perhaps she will have a very strong attraction to him! Because of how he carries himself and the man he has made himself to be.

Her behavior may vary at this point. Some chose to let him know that there is no future. Some probably even chose to stay on his side thinking ' I don't love him but he is a good guy, may be something develops later, and if not, I think I could still live with what I have.' Some would permanently ask her inside whether she still could try and squeeze some love for him

This happens, doesn't it? Crazy. It's commendable of course, but I just hate to think of anyone settling for someone who she is not really excited about. Women are the most amazing creatures on this planet, and they deserve a real man who fullfills and ravishes them. ESPECIALLY those exceptional women with beautiful insides that match their beautiful outsides.

I think onefortheroad is also commendable. Men often qualify a woman by her beauty first. (Some stop there and accept low class behavior just because she's pretty.) Those men with integrity only then look to see her heart and mind. It's a great thing to have the disipline to look at someone's total package from the get-go.   

   

[Misha]

True again, no woman cannot try and develop attraction to a man. It is subconscious.

I have to disagree on this, however. Attraction cannot be earned or deserved.

Now let's imagine a well mannered man, smartly casually dressed, smiling, talkative and interesting. Looking at him people may thing that he is having a good life.

Some probably even chose to stay on his side thinking ' I don't love him but he is a good guy, may be something develops later, and if not, I think I could still live with what I have.'

I agree with Lily. Yes, attraction may not be there the first moment, but if it is not there in the first week, I would cut and run. Yes, I am sure people will claim plenty of exceptions, but IMHO if a woman is not attracted to you in the first week and is still with you, at best she is settling for you because she knows you are a good guy or at worst she is using you for other ulterior motives. Even if it is the lesser of the two evils, that she is settling for you, would any man really want that? Would he want to go through a marriage thinking, this is the woman I love, but I know she is with me because she could not do better. Either option is not good in my books. To stick around in the hopes that she will be attracted to you is futile in most cases IMHO.

[TKO55]

I have heard things like, "She knows within 5 seconds whether or not she will be into you" I disagree.
It's more like, "She knows within 5 second whether or not she will DEFFINATELY NOT be into you." If you're solid, she only then becomes open to the possibility of you turning her on emotionally, physically, and mentally.

Like most on here, I'm not an expert, but here are my 2 kopecks...
First, I agree with you on the above BeSmart.
2nd, Are there any certified marriage counselors, matchmakers or relationship experts that are members on this forum?
3rd, "truly & technically" there is no such thing as "Love At First Site", in reality there is only "Attraction at First Sight".
4th, I have many friends, happily married, and myself am in a relationship with a Russian girl, where we actually "grew" on each other over time. Can anyone fathom that concept?
I mean, we knew soon after we first met if "whether or not we were DEFFINATELY NOT into each other, you could say. But, we just grew together over time, because we had so many things in common, and I guess we "gelled" so to speak.
On the contrary, I know MANY couples that were "attracted" to each other initially, but "grew apart" over time, because they had less in common, or really never knew each other outside the physical aspect of the relationship. And I've seen many times couples that actually become UN-attracted to each other, for example, the man or woman put on a huge amount of weight, or don't wash, groom, etc...
Point is, 2 PEOPLE CAN GROW ON EACH OTHER, IT HAPPENNED TO ME!
In a country so full of divorces (almost 50% in the USA, and Ukraine & Russia are also up there) something is broke for sure.....
Thats all!

[BeSmart]

Monday 8/25

This was a very good day. Tonya had arranged for her driver to pick me up around 10AM and had written Oksana’s address on a piece of paper for me. It was about a 20 minute drive through the city center and then south to the outskirts. I followed along on my map to see where we were going. Some of the roads were bad and some were pretty tree lined streets. I never once saw a street name sign in Ukraine. Was I missing something? In general, it’s all kind of poorly maintained, but that was relative to my neighborhood back home which is an entirely different world. It’s a lot like Mexico, but in Mexico it looks shabby because it really is shabby. Here I liked it. There is a certain charm in it all. I remember thinking that if my friends could look through my eyes for one second at the rows of unpainted apartment buildings, they would think I was in a dangerous part of town. Not so here. These are people’s warm and happy homes. This is where that wonderful sense of family bonds, that thing we all love about these women, is born and bred into their soul.

I arrive at Oksana’s place, a building like all the rest. How does one tell which door is the right one? How does the mailman do his job? I SMS her that “I’m here!” and sit on the steps. An old Bubushka is glaring at me like “What the…?” Soon the door opens and I hear my name. It’s her father, and shaking my hand with the most friendly Russian man grin I have seen. I speak Russian. It’s very nice to meet you, Mr. (her last name). He insists on his first name. He seems thrilled to see me and we chat a little. He points out their balcony and I pretend like I see it. He then hands me a snorkel and mask, I guess we’re going swimming! Then Oksana and her mom appear. My god, she’s beautiful. Everything is in place, hair, makeup, a new, exciting tiny dress and the standard heels to kill. Mom is pretty, full of smiles, and quiet. She doesn’t speak a lick of English.   

There are a few things I already know about Oksanas family, gathered from letters and conversation. Her father is a retired Russian Military pilot. Now they have a home business selling bedding and home goods. Tonya tells me they are well off compared to most. Their car is new, they have internet at home, Marina goes to a high-end university, they own and rent several apartments in Moscow where her older sister lives with her boyfriend.

We get on the road and it’s a whole new dynamic. No interpreter, just me and her in the back seat with our little dictionary. It was the beginning of us communicating out of necessity. I ask her how she’s feeling and she’s much better and I can tell. How long will we drive? About an hour. I just go with the flow.

I break out a fashion magazine that I bought for her in the airport at JFK. A Cosmo or something, I had a few more in the apartment. I thought she might be interested in American fashion and girly stuff even though she couldn’t read it. Her eyes lit up like searchlights, she loved it! We started going through it page by page, it was tons of fun. We rated everything, we liked or didn’t like something, our favorite something, and so on. And we agreed on most things! We got a kick out of the perfume adds that you could open the flap and smell. We loved one that smelled a lot like the very perfume I had brought for her! Best of all, we started to share those flirty little looks with each other. It was on.

The drive was beautiful and crazy, along the southern coast of Crimea. No one wears seatbelts but there is lots of tailgating and slamming of brakes, quick turns and thrilling last minute passes. All perfectly normal. I told them it was like Colorado with all the cliffs and mountains. We ended up in a neat little town with narrow streets. Of course I had no idea what we were doing so when we parked I figured we’re here and went to grab my snorkel and was laughed at.  No swimming here.

We were at Vorontsov’s Palace! It’s a beautiful castle build in 1830 for the Prince, as Dad said, “For only weekend.” You can walk through the whole thing and I got tons of photos. It was amazing. Dad was filming everything, especially Oksana and I walking and talking together. I was always there with a steady hand when the pavement was uneven, and Mom and Dad noticed.  He bought me a DVD about Crimea in English. Then he bought me a little porcelain Lion statue because I commented on the full sized one that guarded the grand entrance. I kept saying no thanks but to no avail. We were having lots of fun. It was here that we took my favorite photo of Oksana and I, sitting together in the palace garden. When I look at it now I see a very happy girl nuzzled up with a lucky guy.

Back in the car and another crazy drive. More flirting and giggling from the back seat. It was funny because SHE was the interpreter here. Dad would ask her how to say something and she would go digging in our dictionary for the words. I would say, “Shto, shto?” Not finding it, we would just throw our hands up and say, “Whatever!” Later she would say in perfect English, “This is my favorite word.”  Cool.

We pull up to parking area and Dad points out something in the distance. It’s a small medieval castle on a cliff jutting out over the Black Sea. I know what it is. It’s called Swallows Nest, I was hoping to see this. It’s kind of a novelty structure built a hundred years ago, it survived an earthquake and is now an Italian Restaurant. But the fun is the hike over to this thing. There are tons of tourists and tons of steps. You go down to sea level, then back up about 50 meters ASL to the entrance. Oksana in heels of course, no problem. Souvenir booths the whole way. We were a sweaty bunch by then. Marina and I take some photos by the ledge and Dad asks me to climb farther with him. We do and get some more cool photos, some of the best ones I have. I am thankful that he doesn’t shove me off the cliff to my certain death.

Next we go to lunch and thank God because I’m starving. It’s a neat outdoor restaurant on the coastal cliff with a beautiful view of the Black Sea. Before I left, I thought there may be a possibility that I would meet some parents, so a bought a gift for that purpose. It’s a coffee table photo book of Florida. There’s pictures of Miami’s South Beach, West Palm, Tampa, Disney, alligators and everglades. They seem really surprised when I give it to them and we go through every page one by one, while I do my best to explain what we see. Oksana loves the high rise apartment buildings and they think it‘s hilarious that you can drive a car on the beach in Daytona. It’s a big hit! We eat Shashlik (all meat shish kabob) and some kind of meat pastry pocket and drink green tea. It’s delicious. I try to pay but Dad says no. I insist, but still he won’t let me! Balshoi spaciba!

No swimming today because it’s too windy.  We head back to drop me off and Oksana informs me that tomorrow we will all go to Balaklava. Sounds great and we agree on a time to meet at her place. I try to tell her that I want her to stay over for a little while. Not easy, I don’t want to say something inappropriate in front of her parents. I SMS her with my phone, “I want some alone time with you?” She got read it and smiled but then basically told me no. I don’t remember it there was an explanation or not and we couldn’t talk about it anyway. But I was disappointed. She was not the shy nervous girl anymore and we were having flirty fun together, so what’s the deal? In my opinion, I needed some intimacy in order to feel the beginnings of love with someone.

I left the car, thanked everyone and went upstairs feeling confused. I remembered the four girls who had responded to the newspaper add.  I made a decision to cancel my day with Oksana tomorrow. I felt like I had to take control over my schedule and show her that I was willing to walk away if she was not the right girl for me. I’m still not sure if that was the right thing to do, but in my mind I hoped it would get her thinking about what I mean to her. It did. I SMSed her that I would not be joining her tomorrow and she asked why? I said I wanted time to think about everything and maybe she should too. She said she understood and I could tell she was upset. I didn’t want to hurt her feelings or disappoint her parents, but I came here to find a girl who WANTS to be alone with me. She needed to decide what she wants.

I would see the other girls tomorrow. I didn’t expect anything special, but I knew it would give me much needed perspective. I started to SMS and set up dates, and made arrangements with Tonya to translate.

[groovlstk]

She said she understood and I could tell she was upset. I didn’t want to hurt her feelings or disappoint her parents, but I came here to find a girl who WANTS to be alone with me. She needed to decide what she wants.

Great TR, BeSmart.

BTW, I had a very similar situation early during my first trip to meet the woman I eventually married. We joke about it today, but at the time it was tough. Unless you can live in Russia or Ukraine for months at a time, the luxury of taking one's time that we take for granted when dating local women just isn't there.

[Doll]

But I was disappointed in her.

What if your own daughter says yes to a stranger (almost a stranger)?
If your own daughter says no she is right and deserves all the respect. So does this girl. She has manners and she is from a good family.
I don't understand you.
 

[Doll]

I said I wanted time to think about everything and maybe she should too. She said she understood and I could tell she was upset. I didn’t want to hurt her feelings or disappoint her parents, but I came here to find a girl who WANTS to be alone with me. She needed to decide what she wants.

100% blackmail.
She is a good girl, just let her go for her sake.

[DonAz]

I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think we’ve heard the last about Oksana.

DonAz

[ScottinCrimea]

In that case... take your pick. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762206.html
You will see that raw milk and related products are one of the main causes.
By the way it never stopped me from eating ice cream. However before my wife arrived my refrigerator contents requested to put out the light on opening the door, so I might have some natural defense. 

I don't want to hijack thie TR, so I'll make one final comment on the ice cream thing.  Shadow, my undergraduate major was in microbiology, so I really didn't need the link you provided.  You did make one significant misinterpretation, however. While pathogenic bacteria are commonly found in dairy products, they are NOT one of the main causes of food related illness.  If you look at the list of the protein foods that have a similar risk, such as grains, eggs, meats, etc. you would be more inclined to suspect something other than a dairy product, expecially since those in milk are easily killed through simple processing, as Ukrainians, same as in any other country, have done for generations.  Their commercial dairy products go through the same treatments as in the US, so the chances of disease from ice cream there are pretty much the same as anywhere else.  What really confused me was your reference to bad tapwater as the cause.

So everyone, enjoy the ice cream.  I would expecially recommend their watermelon flavored ice cream bars.

[ScottinCrimea]

BeSmart,  Although I also feel we haven't heard the last of Oksana, I agree that you took a big risk with your actions.  Here's a girl whose shyness and slow pace you are appreciating one minute, then feeling frustrated the next.  I agree that I would have felt equally frustrated, though.  I think you could have gotten your answer very simply without the "blackmail" as Doll calls it.  When she declined, you could have simply asked, "When?".  Her answer would have told you all that you needed to know.  But on the other hand, you both probably needed a bit of time to think about things.  We can tend to rush things due to limited time together and often taking a short "thinking break" allows both parties to get things back into perspective.

I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of the story.

[BeSmart]

Okay Doll, I get you. And agree, she is a good girl from a good family. I could not ask for more.

I wasn't going to get into this till I write the next part, but perhaps I should have been more clear here.

I didn't want to "get her alone" so I could "have my way with her" or something. That's ridiculous. I was not even looking for a kiss. We had not had one moment of time in four days where it was just the two of us. It seemes perfectly normal to me for a new couple to hang out in the same room or take a walk together or just watch some TV or something. Time spend doing nothing at all is quality time. Wanting this time to figure out if we clicked is not an unreasonable desire.
 
Later on when we talked about it, I learned more about her reservations and understood her much better. It was a real joy talking to her about it and giving her the feeling of reassurance and safety that she needed to be comfortable. I have no regrets. One day to think things over and put things in perspective was good for both of us. Meeting the other girl only solidified my feelings for Oksana.     

[BeSmart]

Tuesday 8/26

I meet Tonya at Contrebus around noon. We talk about Oksana. She is surprised that Oksana didn’t want to hang out with me yesterday. She says that it seems strange but it’s a good thing for me to meet these other girls now, in the middle of my trip. It will give me a clearer opinion of Oksana to at least chat with some other girls to see how they compare in character.

Two of the girls from the newspaper add could meet today, Maria and Yana. I knew nothing about them. Nothing. If I were to do it again, I certainly would have ran the add for a few weeks about a month before I came so I could get to know them a little bit and at least see some photos.

We walked to the bus stop and find Maria. She was a tall brunette, a little chubby, but cute and seemed nice. We went back to the Café and ordered something.  I honestly don’t remember what we talked about but it was enjoyable. She didn’t have much to say so I did most of the talking, just entertaining stories and such. I asked about her family and what she was looking for and she gave me nice, short answers. She was nervous and I told her it’s okay, no pressure, we’re just having fun here. I asked her if she had any questions for me. Nothing. Isn’t there something you want to know about me? Nothing. Okay then. After about 40 minutes I was realizing there was not much to her and thinking about my dear Oksana, so I knew it was time. I walked her to the bus stop. On the way she finally thought of something to ask me. “Did you see lots of girls?” Wow. “Yes, I see girls everywhere. I see about 10 of them right now.” I don’t know if she gets the joke.

I call Yana to see where she is and no answer. I hang out at the bus stop and wait for 15 minutes past her planned time, then go back to the restaurant and Tonya calls her. Nothing. A little while later she sends a SMS and is terribly sorry. Whatever.

I can’t wait to see Oksana tomorrow. I miss her. I ask Tonya if she will join us for an hour because there are some things that I want to make sure she understands. She actually calls her right there to make the plans. Oksana has some friends visiting her during the day but wants to see me for dinner and we decide on a sushi place within walking distance.

I end up going out that night to a few of the discos at Omega beach. It’s a lot of fun! I certainly attract some attention from the cute girls, mostly out with their boyfriends who are not amused. They know I’m American and want to know why I am here and such. I drink a few beers and  dance around a little bit with my new friends. One girl in particular was flirting a lot and stayed after her friends left. A tall pretty blonde. I guess something could have happened but I remember just thinking about Oksana, so I told her I had to go.

In bed around 2AM and slept in.

[Misha]

I mean, we knew soon after we first met if "whether or not we were DEFFINATELY NOT into each other, you could say. But, we just grew together over time, because we had so many things in common, and I guess we "gelled" so to speak.
On the contrary, I know MANY couples that were "attracted" to each other initially, but "grew apart" over time, because they had less in common, or really never knew each other outside the physical aspect of the relationship. And I've seen many times couples that actually become UN-attracted to each other, for example, the man or woman put on a huge amount of weight, or don't wash, groom, etc...
Point is, 2 PEOPLE CAN GROW ON EACH OTHER

I agree that two people can grow on each other, but attraction is important. A wife/husband is more than a friend and I was looking for someone that I was attracted to as a woman, and a woman who was attracted to me as a man. I also wanted somebody that I was compatible with as a person (shared values, shared goals, similar outlook on life, common interests, etc....).

[AnastassiaAsh]

....I would like to post another angle on what has been an informative TR;
Of course there have been numerous scientific studies that have shown that physical attraction between a man & a woman is usually determined in the first 60 seconds, 2 minutes at most. My angle is this, and it was truly what I felt. I met a lady in Ukraine this year, and though in the end it did not work out, our relations lasted for about 8 months. When I first met her, I actually was not physically excited about her, though she certainly had decent looks. What really "attracted" me to her was her overall package. I mean, a combination of her looks, her personality, her intelligence, her kindness, her heart & her love for children. Yes, it is true, 100%, I was attracted to her "whole" package. If I had relied just on the physical aspect of it, we probably would have never of met. Very true. Now as time went on, she became more physically attractive to me, as I saw her whole "presentation" of who she was. It is really hard to explain in words, but I really liked her as a whole. If one element of her great qualities had not been there in the beginning, based on physical aspects alone, we would not have ever of met. True story. ....maybe I'm an exception, but I know I'm not the only one that has felt this way..... Great posts Lily, Anastassia & BeSmart, etc...

Well, your 'whole' is not quite whole if you are saying that you were not physically excited about her when you first met. Did you see her profile before you met, pictures...? or did you meet her through a newspaper ad or something? All i mean is that most often than not you pass the test of physical attraction at the very beginning when you look through women's profile pictures, then when you open a profile you read what's inside that person...Everything else is the continuation of what happened at the beginning. Later in the relationship when you realize that this person is truly the 'package' then you feel like you want to say "I want to marry you"

i suppose 'whole package' notion is different for different people. But isn't it something like 100% of everything and you are convinced that this person is the best and you won't be able to find better?.....of course feelings are involved too big time...

[BeSmart]

Well said Misha.

And Anastasia too. I guess that's one good thing about an agency as opposed to an add is that you see her photos. And if you realize that she was dolled up that day and look past the makeup and special effects, at least you can say "Well she looks cute, I wonder what she's like?" I came to realize the profile was errevenlent because it was fake, so the photo is ALL I had to interest me. Then I could attempt to answer that "what is she like" question by finding the real her, which is only vaguely clear till you meet and spend a lot of time together. I still only feel like I found the right kind of girl for me, someone special who is into me and that I'd be a fool not to pursue. I'm sure I have SO much to learn about her.

I guess that's the "growing on each other" part that we're talking about, which also involves finding out both of us are not perfect. Isn't a big part of a happy, loving relationship embracing someone's faults as well as their perfections? The married folks here are a wonderful source for these insights.