Moscow or Bust!

[Sculpto]

This is going to be a rather long post, and hopefully my stream of random but somehow connected thoughts will make sense.

The background of my search:
I first went to Ukraine three years ago, not searching for a bride, but, to get in touch with my families immigrant history.  My Great Grandparents came to the USA from near Kiev in 1890 but prior to that fatefull day three years ago my Mom and I were rather frustrated with the geneaology search that always came up empty when searching in "Austria" where we thought they were from, even though we knew they spoke Russian.  Then, one day my Mom called me with excitement in her voice.. she had, after a search on the then new Ellis Island web site, found the immigration records of her grandfather and it included the name of the village he came from in Galicia.

I spent days searching every map I could find on the web, and then finally, I found a very old map of Galicia, but, of course it was annotated in Russian so I understood nothing.  Finally after more work I was able to locate the first place name as a village near the modern Polish border but on the Ukrainian side.  And then a few days later Mom called me again with more information that a very old aunt she had not spoken to in decades had just told her that her Grandfather lived near Kiev, met his wife near Lviv and in 1890 they left Ukraine running from the law for some unknown reason.

Well, that was enough for me to start reading everything I could about Ukraine.  Being a fairly well travelled soul and someone with a lot of pride of geographical and historical knowledge of many places in the world I was rather suprised at myself for knowing practically nothing about Ukraine.  I could think of only three things.. two of which I knew nothing about, Kiev and Odessa.. and the third.. don't laugh, Chernobyl.  I had some vacation time due and had been planning to go to Mexico, but, made an abrupt spur of the moment decision and decided to go to Ukraine.  Now, being an artist and a rebel and with enough international travel experience to understand often the best travel experiences are to be found outside of the famous places I decided to find something really off the beaten path and started reading about a lot of different places in Ukraine.  Then, I happened on a political article, maybe some of you have seen it, the title was, "Yanukovish and Redneck Ukraine", or something like that.  So, I read about Donetsk.  That old pride of geography really struck home when I learned about this strange city in the east.  Three years ago there was very little information on the web about Donetsk and I found it bizarre and interesting that such a big city would appear so isolated.  The less I found the more I became fascinated, and no less so for the fact of the anti Orange politics of Donetsk, because I had followed the news about the Orange Revolution and wondered what could be so special, or possibly not special, about a "lost" place that opposed democratic freedom, as claimed in the article.  Then, the day before I was to fly out I found a site, in Russian, made by a guy who had climbed the radio tower and made a panoramic view of the city, with its crumbling Stalin houses and smoke stacks belching out black and yellow smoke.  I nearly freaked out, WHERE THE HELL AM I GOING?!?!?!?!

So, imagine me, with 6 words of Russian, arriving in "backwater" Donetsk.  I had arranged an apartment on the web and decided if Donetsk was terrible I could just get on a train or bus and go some other place, like Krym or Odessa or Lviv or Kiev.

Well, as anyone who has been to Ukraine knows reality on the ground is quite different than the images one sometimes has in their minds, or from pictures on the web.  Summertime Donetsk is rather pleasant with its pedestian only street, fountains and flower gardens, Friday night concerts in the square, outdoor resturants by the lake, and, the big thing I was not expecting.. all those amazingly beautiful ladies in 4 inch heels and mini skirts.  Nothing could have prepared me for that as I was totally ignorant of the famous beauty of Ukrainian ladies.

Now, what came as an even bigger shock, especially after living in San Francisco for the last decade and a half, was the friendliness of the ladies.  SF is a single straight mans nightmare.  Ladies here are typically very unfriendly, and, oddly the gender ratios favor single straight females in a huge way.  With my great cities huge gay population straight women avoid this town knowing it is not a good place to find a husband.  So, in Donetsk, I was absolutely shocked when my admiring glances were met with smiles and so often ladies would approach and ask to sit on the bench next to me and upon learning I was from the States would speak in English and sometimes stay for a very long time just chatting and asking questions about America. 

Well, I was HOOKED!  I have to thank ALL of the wonderful ladies I met in Donetsk for making me feel like a MAN again! 

Although I was in Donetsk for a month and met dozens of ladies on the street, or introduced by new friends I met in the square, I did not find a lady that I fell in love with.  But, I felt I must persue this idea and return to Ukraine as soon as possible.

When I got back to SF I started to take a look at all the agency sites I had ignored in my initial research about Ukraine.  I got sucked in and started writing letters.  I made TONS of mistakes, got scammed a few times (big suprise) which culminated with a train wreck in Kherson I have posted about elsewhere on this site.

After the Kherson experience I was completely turned off by the agency sites and had a long conversation with one of my male Ukrainian friends about it.  He sent me some links to some free sites and advised me to try and learn Russian as fast as possible.  Well.. now I started spending a lot of my free time using babelfish and mangolanguages and trying to wade the the Web in Russian.  I found all kinds of sites, including the Russian equivalent of facebook.  It was there I met the lady who has proven to me agency sites are a complete waste of time and money.  To be more specific, ALL the ladies I corresponded with in social network and Russian sites have proven this to me.  The quality of communications simply can not be compared, however, that is not the point of my story.

One lady in particular had risen to the top.  She had internet access at home and her own web cam.  We began to chat often.  I knew she sometimes was chatting with other people, but, as time passed our conversations became more and more exclusive.  We started to speak on the phone, but, her English was terrible.  I learned she had been using some sort of translation software the whole time!  For several months we had been communicating this way and she never even mentioned she barely spoke English.  I thought, Wow, she must really like me to go through all that trouble.  Well.. then one day.. she asked me, "What are we doing?  You live in America and I live in Tomsk, we will never see each other, this is just a waste of time"

So, I said, well maybe I can go to Tomsk?  She just laughed at me and said "You will never come, it is too far". 

I took that as a challenge of course and started my insane research again, reading everything I could find about Siberia.  I told her, if we can go to Altai I will come.  She laughed at me again and said she was afraid to go to Altai and be eaten by a bear.   

So, I began planning in earnest.  This was last January.  And then.. well you all know how the economy has been, and, I work in design/sales and the bottom fell out right about that time.  So, instead of going to Tomsk in April as I had planned, I paid my overinflated San Francisco rent and car payment and hoped things would turn around.  Strike one! 

But, this wonderful lady would not be deterred.  She decided she would find a way to come to me in San Francisco and she set out on that path.  As I mentioned in the immigration thread, she is a student journalist, and she still lived at home and thus had almost no expenses.  Even though she is a student she is paid suprisingly well to edit her newspaper and apparently had some decent amount of money stashed away.  So, we discussed the best way for her to get a visa, how long she would stay here, what we would do and so on.

Then, disaster struck.  Anyone who has researched Tomsk will also know Tomsk has one of the highest cancer rates in the world.  The closed city formerly known as Severo is on the outskirts of Tomsk and has been the source of radiation releases and a variety of other chemical spills and assorted disasters.  Her Father had been complaining of not feeling well for a while and fell ill.  They took him to the doctors, carcinoma.  She dumped all her money into her fathers medical care.  End of her plans to come to visit me.  Strike two.

I would like to interject a point here for the skeptics.  In all this time this wonderful young woman has never asked me for a penny, calls me, not often, but she calls on her dime, and was VERY insulted when I offered to pay for her plane ticket to come see me.  In fact, when she heard about my financial difficulties earlier in the year, before her father fell ill, she insisted on sending ME money which I of course refused.

So, due to the fact that she had invested all of her money in her fathers hospitalization and was still short the amount the doctors were demanding she accepted an offer to go to work in Moscow to start up and edit a newspaper there.  She has been there the last seven weeks.  The first three weeks I had no luck reaching her on the telephone and only recieved two emails, one which said she had been to Chechnya, and the other that told me not to worry she missed me but was overwhelmingly busy.  Then, finally I got her on the phone and we have spoken almost every day since as she has gotten more settled into life in Moscow.

Now, in the meantime, my financial situation stabilized, sales have been excellent this summer, though I have really worked harder for it than ever before in my career.  But, sensing that I could lose her if I do not take action very soon I made the decision that I must go see her in Moscow as soon as possible.  At first, she resisted because she says she hates it there and really wants to go back to Tomsk and especially see her Dad because his condition has improved.  She is on shaky ground in general and I can hear the exhaustion in her voice. 

Finally, I told her, I am coming and you just need to say when you will be in Moscow and then I will make my arrangements for time off and the visa and the tickets and so on.  But, I need you to give me a definite date when you will be in Moscow, period.  So, she told me to wait a couple of days so she could make some arrangements with her parents, speak to her boss and so on. 

Last night she informed me she will go to Tomsk for two weeks, leaving in ten days, then returning to Moscow, and I can come at the end of October! 

Today I asked my boss for the time off, he said "What for" to which I replied, "personal reasons" and he agreed.  I called a Russian travel agent here in SF who found me the perfect itinerary equal to the best price I was able to find on all the different travel sites and has a hold on my ticket until the end of next week.  My girl is working on locating an apartment in Moscow, understanding I am not a millionaire and that I only need a clean simple and safe place to sleep because I want to see the Big City not sit around in an apartment.

In a few minutes I will call her and give her the news.  I will wake her up with the news that finally we will meet in real life. 

Now, here is the part where I must ask advice and help.  There are two things I need help with.

The first is easy.. if you guys know of the romantic places to go and things to do in Moscow that are not budget busters for a frugal but not cheap semi starving artist I would be very appreciative of some ideas.  As I said, my lady is not from Moscow and has only been there less than two months.  It would be awesome if I can show her the town and I know she is not impressed by big displays of money so simple and sweet will do just fine. 

The second thing is more complicated.  After so long in communication, it has been just about a year since we first corresponded, with the reality of meeting sinking in, she has for the first time expressed some insecurities about meeting.  She is not running away, but, she is quite afraid that the deep connection that has developed in the correspondence might not be the same in real life.  I am confident that will not happen, but, I would be a fool to not achknowledge it is possible.  It will not be hard to have a back up plan in case it doesn't work out, but, well.. obviously I want it to.  I feel that I need to reassure her and calm her nerves which at the same time should demonstrate the "real man" thing.  But, there is certainly a lot of pressure on us both after so long a correspondence.  So, any words of wisdom on this topic would be really appreciated.  Since I know you all will ask, I am 44 and she is early 20's.  The age gap has been discussed at length, and, given her level of professional responsibility as well as committment to family I am very comfortable that she is not an emotional or psycholigical child.  She is more afraid that I will be bored with her young age than she will be turned off by my half bald head.    But, I do not see her age as anything more than a number.  We have sustained an amazing correspondence all this time and have discussed EVERYTHING one can imagine.  Oh, and by the way, she has self taught herself English in the last nine months to a very passable level.  I am frankly shocked by her progress with English.

so.. I think I have finally run out of words. 

Romantic ideas for Moscow.. and how to calm her nerves.. please

[felix8787]

Hey Sculpto,
Don't know of any romantic places there in Moscow, but as far as calming her nerves....just be yourself and as far as a backup plan, that is up to you to have one. If you 2 have talked for a year and have talked about everything and she knows your situation, then I don't see why things shouldn't go well. Just have a good time and see where this leads too.

felix8787

[chivo]

You could try the river walk out by Metro Vorobyovy Gory, Red line #1.

Take in a movie that's available in English and Russia; Metro Prospect Mira, orange line #6, or circle line #5. http://www.domecinema.ru/

Walk around any number of parks;

Botanicheskii Sad. A nice place and botanical garden that I'm sure your lady will like. Very pretty, peaceful, and romantic.
Metro line Botonicheski Sad, orange line #6

Park Pobedy (Victory Park) Metro Park Pobedy, blue line #4 http://travel.webshots.com/album/468937444ShYQIQ

Gorky Park; Metro Park Kultury, red line #1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorky_Park_(Moscow)

Exhibition Park; Metro VDNKh, orange line #6. http://russia-travel.suite101.com/article.cfm/visit_moscows_best_stalinist_park

You can rent rollerblades at most of these parks if you desire. Unfortunately the weather has turned a little chilly lately, 10C (50f). Still OK IMO for blading.

Not sure about you, but your lady might like a trip to a museum. Most RW I've taken there liked it and it can be romantic even if you find it a little boring. Sometimes they have special events there as well.

For instance me and my date went to a Norman Foster exhibition at the Puskin Museum at her request BTW. I thought it was cool, and she really enjoyed it. Entrance to the Pushkin at any time is relatively cheap, especially for Russians. The Tretyakov is another that you both might find interesting and romantic.

http://www.moscow.info/museums/state-tretyakov-gallery.aspx, Metro Tretyakovska, orange line #6

http://www.moscow-taxi.com/art-galleries/pushkin-museum.html, Metro Kropotkinskaya, red line #1

Both the New and Old Arbat's are great places to walk around, take in some sights, and enjoy relatively low cost (for Moscow) restaurants and cafes. Metro Arbatskaya or Smolenskaya, blue line #3, or 4.

Here's another site with a lot of useful information to help you decide. Good luck

http://www.sras.org/guides_moscow#see!

Chivo

[Shadow]

I want to add of course the Kremlin, and do not forget the Diamond Fund museum there.
It shows a large collection of gem stones and some 'lumps' of gold.

[mbwaring]

  Sculpto

  If youre in Moscow again try www.missyourlove.com
  Lots nice ladies at this site

[Sculpto]

Chivo..
Thanks for the list.. lots of stuff you offered that I have not seen on any of the Moscow visitors sites.  I happen to love museums and already figured that into the plan.  I would love to see a Norman Foster exhibit, I have followed his work since the Hong Kong stuff.

Felix.. after I called her last night to give her the news.. well.. like I said.. she is VERY NERVOUS!  Instead of the excited "I can't wait until you arrive" I instead heard a very long silence followed by a long list of uncertainties.  Here are the most important ones... "I don't know what my schedule will be" "I have to talk with my boss to see exactly when I will be back in Moscow" "I am not sure if I will have free time from work", all said with a deadpan non-characteristic voice + accent.  I did tak to her again this morning and she was a lot more animated so maybe I caught her at a bad moment last night, or she had time to process the reality.  I don't know.. still looking for advice on this topic.

I did ask her.. "Are you sure you want me to come?"  She replied, "Are you joking??"  and then she asked me to wait a few days before actually purchasing the ticket.  The travel agent will hold the ticket until next Friday.  UGH!

MB.. since you are promoting that site.. can you say that you have personal experience with it?  Can anyone else verify it?  For me it is a back up to the back up plan.  I have had such rotten experience with paid sites I would need a lot of solid referals before spending anything on another one.  If things should go wrong with my friend in Moscow while I am there.. I have a bunch of artist friends in St. Pete that I know from a variety of artists forums and sites.  I can go to St. Pete and immediately be right in the middle of the art action there and by that method meet tons of exceptional people.

OK, back to Moscow.. I realized something when chivo mentioned the weather.  I live in California guys.  I have not seen snow in almost 20 years since I left the midwest.  HAHAHAHA.. my point is.. the only real winter coat I have is an royal blue LL Bean knee length model, circa 1986 which only had one winter on it before I came out west so it is in fact in perfect condition.  I have told my girl about this and that the coat is rather dorky looking and she laughed and said it will not matter, but, I know she is rather fashionable and will be walking around in a really nice leather.. I've seen photos of her in it.  So, should I take her comment at face value or would it be a wise idea for me to invest in a fashionable winter coat for a one time use?

[groovlstk]

Felix.. after I called her last night to give her the news.. well.. like I said.. she is VERY NERVOUS!  Instead of the excited "I can't wait until you arrive" I instead heard a very long silence followed by a long list of uncertainties.  Here are the most important ones... "I don't know what my schedule will be" "I have to talk with my boss to see exactly when I will be back in Moscow" "I am not sure if I will have free time from work", all said with a deadpan non-characteristic voice + accent.  I did tak to her again this morning and she was a lot more animated so maybe I caught her at a bad moment last night, or she had time to process the reality.  I don't know.. still looking for advice on this topic.

This is a tough one, I'm sure many people will take her reaction as a big negative. But one of the problems w/an online relationship that goes on for too long before the first meeting is that like it or not, people get comfortable in their roles. Suddenly many of the things she takes for granted in you will soon be put to the test, I can see how it might make her nervous.

That said, if she truly cares about you the joy at the prospect of your meeting should outweigh her misgivings. If she doesn't change her tune in the next few days I'd start working on a backup plan, just in case.

[Sculpto]

Groov,

You are right on target.  Her reaction is a bit of a suprise for me.  But, on the other hand, I am rather experienced dating locally via the internet, from back in the days when AOL was actually popular.  I distinctly remember the last time I met a younger lady locally.. I had been chatting with her on aol and yahoo a few months and on the phone about a month.  When I decided I wanted to meet her in real life it took another month to convince her I was not a psycho axe murderer or a demonic sadist who would imprison her in my basement dungeon.  When we finally did meet she made me stand outside her car and talk to her for 45 minutes before she decided I was "safe".  We ended up together for a couple of years..

So, I am not too put of by Miss Moscow's nervous reaction... but I am concerned that I do not have enough experience reading Russian minds to keep her on my track. 

I will just have to be patient for a few days and see what happens.  I know she is under enormous pressure setting up the new newspaper and sending all her money back to Tomsk for her Dad.  It can't be easy.  The timing might be wrong for this in general.. but I feel if I wait any longer it will fall apart for sure. 

[felix8787]

I agree with groovlstk, it just concerns me that she was willing and researched in going to see you and then when you told her that you would go to her, she gets nervous and timid...not that there is nothing wrong with reality setting in that you are going to go and see her face to face.
Wait it out and see what she says and does, I don't see it as a negative, she did just get a new job in Moscow and her father is ill as she told you, so maybe she has alot on her mind and is just trying to schedule it to where you and her can spend time together without interruptions.
Well I am with you on reading RW minds, today I had about a 30 something minute talk with the lady that I am going to go and see and we talked about our different cultures, mostly about our mothers/babushka's and the US army and Ukrainian army.
But my lady that I will be seeing she will be working while I am there and we will be spending the evenings together and the weekend together, which is cool with me, I understand that she has a responsibility to her job. I am sure that I will find something to do during the day while I am there.
But I hope that in the next few day, you will have great news about going over to Russia.

felix8787 

[Sculpto]

Well.. I just called her again.. and she was really happy to hear from me and apologized over and over for being so stressed at work when I called earlier.  She was sitting with her girl friend drinking wine and talking about me when I called..

"Kiss you kiss you kiss you, don't worry, all will be good" was her last comment before we hung up.  ))))

I think I can relax now and wait till she confirms everything with her boss.  She also promised to try and get the whole week off when I will be there so we don't lose a minute to be together. 

One thing I am realizing.. when she was in her office in Tomsk she did not have anyone looking over her shoulder.. I have gotten the impression it is not the same in Moscow and she is under a lot more scrutiny and supervision and also has a lot more deadline pressure. 

Lesson.. gotta stop calling her during work hours.    LOL.. but thats not so easy.. 11 hour time difference from California to Moscow.

So.. anyone have thoughts about my "beautiful" winter coat?

[felix8787]

I don't see it as a negative, she did just get a new job in Moscow and her father is ill as she told you, so maybe she has alot on her mind and is just trying to schedule it to where you and her can spend time together without interruptions.

felix8787 

Well, LOL, I called that one pretty good...but anyways, glad to hear that everything is good between you 2 and that the up coming trip will be on for sure.

As far as a coat is concerned, I keep track of the weather there http://www.weathercity.com/ru/moscow/?u=i and a few days before you leave go and get your coat.

felix8787

[Gator]

Sculpto,

Chivo has given you good advice about what to do in Moscow.  Do you have an apartmnent yet?  If not, check Moscow Rick's site.  Rick also knows good places to dine for reasonable price.

About the inner feelings of your woman, who knows.  Just remember that you do not have a relationship until you meet, spend time together, and then decide if you like each other.

One backup plan is to have in your pocket the telephone numbers of introduction agencies. 

[Sculpto]

Gator..

Thanks for the advice.  I am well aware that relationships begin when people meet in real life, but, I do want to mention the lady I will visit is not an agency girl and was not looking for a foreign husband.  The communication developed into something romantic after several months of yahoo web chats, phone calls etc.  Based on prior experience meeting women online, excluding marriage/intro agencies, I have a very good feel for when it will work and will not.  After the train wreck in Kherson last year I would not be getting on a plane if I was not extremely confident. 

As far as back up plans.. as I said in an earlier post if for some reason things don't work out I will simply get on a bus or train to St. Pete where I have a lot of semi professional contacts from the art world.  There are artists there I have corresponded with, both men and women, for several years as part of a much larger online art community.  Some of those people alreayd know, as of yesterday, that I am probably going to be in Moscow and so invitations to St. Pete have already been extended.  I can have an awesome time in St. Pete and it has been a lifelong goal to visit the Hermitage, so, I go on this adventure with a much more open mind and a great deal more care than I had last year when I went to Kherson when my head was filled with agency and scam girl crap.  I am definitely thinking with my brain this time.  And, I can always use the same social network site I met the lady I will visit in Moscow to find other possible ladies once I am there and if I need more company.  Basically I am saying NO AGENCY of any kind will ever get even one single dollar from me again.

The lady I am visiting in Moscow and I have developed a very strong online friendship anyway and even if we see each other and in the first 20 seconds say "no way" (which I doubt will happen since we have seen each other literally hundreds of hours on cam) she is committed to making sure I am not alone in Moscow.  She has only been there about two months herself so if there is no love match she will still show me around if I want her to.

When I spoke with her this morning she was really excited about me coming.  She is already planning a lot of stuff for us to do on a low budget and looking into apartments.  She apologized again for acting funny when I gave her the news and I told her I would not call her during work hours again since she is obviously very distracted when I do.  She agreed it was a good idea, and then apoligized again.   

I think I really learned my lesson in Kherson and I am not taking chances or putting too much hope on anything until it is in real life. 

[Chicagoguy]

I have been to Moscow 12 times and all the advice you received is "right on".

If the worst happens just go see Red Square and the Kremlin.Then find the overnight train to St. Pete. Many tourists go to Russia just to see those places.

Schedule of trains on www.gotorussia.com and then train reservations.

When it is really cold there any clothing will work. Nobody notices. Not sure about this time of year.

[docetae]

Chivo..
Thanks for the list.. lots of stuff you offered that I have not seen on any of the Moscow visitors sites.  I happen to love museums and already figured that into the plan.  I would love to see a Norman Foster exhibit, I have followed his work since the Hong Kong stuff.

Felix.. after I called her last night to give her the news.. well.. like I said.. she is VERY NERVOUS!  Instead of the excited "I can't wait until you arrive" I instead heard a very long silence followed by a long list of uncertainties.  Here are the most important ones... "I don't know what my schedule will be" "I have to talk with my boss to see exactly when I will be back in Moscow" "I am not sure if I will have free time from work", all said with a deadpan non-characteristic voice + accent.  I did tak to her again this morning and she was a lot more animated so maybe I caught her at a bad moment last night, or she had time to process the reality.  I don't know.. still looking for advice on this topic.

I did ask her.. "Are you sure you want me to come?"  She replied, "Are you joking??"  and then she asked me to wait a few days before actually purchasing the ticket.  The travel agent will hold the ticket until next Friday.  UGH!

MB.. since you are promoting that site.. can you say that you have personal experience with it?  Can anyone else verify it?  For me it is a back up to the back up plan.  I have had such rotten experience with paid sites I would need a lot of solid referals before spending anything on another one.  If things should go wrong with my friend in Moscow while I am there.. I have a bunch of artist friends in St. Pete that I know from a variety of artists forums and sites.  I can go to St. Pete and immediately be right in the middle of the art action there and by that method meet tons of exceptional people.

OK, back to Moscow.. I realized something when chivo mentioned the weather.  I live in California guys.  I have not seen snow in almost 20 years since I left the midwest.  HAHAHAHA.. my point is.. the only real winter coat I have is an royal blue LL Bean knee length model, circa 1986 which only had one winter on it before I came out west so it is in fact in perfect condition.  I have told my girl about this and that the coat is rather dorky looking and she laughed and said it will not matter, but, I know she is rather fashionable and will be walking around in a really nice leather.. I've seen photos of her in it.  So, should I take her comment at face value or would it be a wise idea for me to invest in a fashionable winter coat for a one time use?

I don't want to be of bad advice but I had same reaction from a woman I corresponded with daily a little less than 2 years ago. We were talking with webcam, have great time together online and I was planning to meet her for her birthday. I told her that I was going to buy ticket and she asked me to wait. After a few days, I asked her if she really wants to meet me. Her answer was no, she wanted to stay in Russia.

The best you can do is to ask her directly, a negative answer will be more easy at distance than in Russia, far from home.

[Sculpto]

Well I got a bit more information on why she is holding back.  I will try to explain..

She went to Moscow about two months ago to start up a small newspaper and to make extra money so she could help pay for her fathers hospital bills.  It has been difficult to get her to talk about the details of her work agreement, in part because of language and also because she is really proud and does not want to tell me about her problems.  However...

It appears her direct boss may have embezzled the money she was supposed to be paid.  Again, language is making it difficult to understand all the details and she has not been able to get to an internet cafe at a time when I can chat with her when we can use the translator for difficult words.  I have the suspician, though she hasn't said it directly, that this man has either spent her money or is holding her money ransom for "you know what".  It was really difficult to get her to talk about it.  I am fairly sure this is also the same person who promised her he could get her the visa to the USA and then was not able to do anything.  She already has her ticket back to Tomsk to see her Father, but, she won't go without money because it will be too humiliating. 

The way I am reading things is she feels too unstable at this moment to committ to being in Moscow at the time I am able to travel.  She wants me to come and she appears ready to leave Russia.  There are two things that have happened that made her begin to consider leaving, which she never did before.  The girl is VERY patriotic.  I get the sense of her patriotism being something like one might expect from an American from say Nebraska.. she is from the heartland and proud of it.  Now, when her Father got sick and she learned there were not the right facilities in Tomsk but if Dad could go to Germany or USA or Israel.. the doctors in those countries could help him.. well.. that just set her off and she actually said "now I hate this country".  Now, with what appears to be playing out in Moscow it might be the end of her patriotism.

She is supposed to try and meet with the person next up in the food chain tomorrow to try and get her money and resolve the problems with her immediate boss. 

I still  have a few days before I have to committ to the ticket so I am waiting, not very patiently, but I am waiting.  I wish I could give her more than moral support but I know she would not accept my money.  If I was a rich man I would get on the plane today, but, I can't be so irrational, especially with the current economy. 

[felix8787]

Wow Sculpto, if it's not one thing, it's another.
I am sorry to hear that her direct boss is embezzling/holding her money ransom for "you know what" or has spent her money. If she can't get to an internet cafe to talk, have you considered using the services of Anastassia Ash to do a 3 way call?? I use her services and she is wonderful, she is also from Moscow and maybe she can give you some insights on what is going on and maybe she can talk with your lady to find out exactly what is going on with her situation.

Well if she feels to unstable to committ to being in Moscow.....How about this for food for thought....you say that you want to give her moral support right? Well how about you go to Moscow and then travel with her to Tomsk, that way she is being committed to you but at the same time you are giving her moral support with the situation with her father. I know that it sounds alot and it probably is Sculpto. But if she would not accept your money, you can use that money that you would send, to make that travel with her to Tomsk.

Sculpto....with her saying "now I hate this country" it could derive from her being frustrated about the situation with her dad.

Just my thoughts based on what you wrote.

felix8787

[Shadow]

Why would she be ready to leave Russia in this situation with her dad ? She is working in Moscow to get money for his treatment, and would try to get him this treatment in another country. A patriottic woman should have just one reason to leave her country, and that is you.
However I am happy to see that you have learned a lot from the past, and are on the right track. Tomsk is not the end of the world, and if she can travel there you can too.

[Chicagoguy]

Why not go to Tomsk ?

I was there in January [ -31F ] but is was a beautiful city. Many historic old wood homes. It is also a big University town.

A number of Americans there because of oil.

Again, even if things don't work out you will have had an interesting expierence. That was what happened to me.

[Sculpto]

OK, I will try to answer some questions...

I am not against the idea of doing a translated call.  My only issue with it is simply the reliability of cell phone connections.  her service and my service do not always work as they should and I no longer maintain a land line nor does she have one currently in Moscow.  She might also have a reaction to there being a third party involved in the conversation.. though I am basing that simply on a chat we had once with one of my friends from Donetsk who had offered to translate.. I could tell she was uncomfortable simply because she didn't know him.  So, I don't know how she would react to a three way conversation on the phone.  I will ask her at the next chance.

I have thought about going with her to Tomsk.  In fact I kind of like the idea of spending three and a half days on the train with her, alone.  And since knowing her I have become fascinated with everything about Siberia.  On the other hand.. if it turned out on the second day that we didn't like each other it would be a VERY long ride.  I am also not sure she would agree to it because "family problems are family problems" and I am still a stranger even if her parents are well aware of me.  Also, one other point to consider in that idea.. her Dad is a former Soviet police officer with VERY strong anti-USA feelings.  If the poor man is on his death bed it would actually be really rude of me to show up trying to marry his daughter.  On top of all those concerns.. at this time I am only able to get one week of vacation time which gives me about 11 days for round trip travel.  Given the worsening economic situation, even if at this point it has not impacted me personally, it would be foolish to over extend myself financially to take additional time off work or spend extra money buying two plane tickets to Tomsk at the current S7 Airlines price of about $600 US each RT Moscow-Tomsk.

As far as her negative feelings about Russia.. I know it is simply because of the situation with her Dad.  Even after all that started she is not big on the idea of living in the USA.  All she has ever agreed to is coming here to check it out.  Being as there are many Russians living in the San Francisco area I have sent her the links to the various different websites maintained by the local Russian community showing her that she will be able to speak her language, eat familiar foods, experience familiar culture at the same time getting the best of what I have to offer.  I have sent her links to the historic California town of Sevastopol and the Russian River resort area.  I have even shown her the map of SF with the rather quaint neighborhood of Russian Hill prominently marked out for her to notice.  I have done everything to bring the historical Russian connection to this part of the USA to the forefront of her awareness.  Even with all that.. she is not very interested, except, to be with me if things fall into place.  If she was in a position to come to the USA today, just as an example, I am not sure if she would come because of her Dad.  I do not think she has the answer to that question herself.  I just wish I could get the pieces of the puzzle to fit together.  We have waited for each other for a year at this point, and, we both agreed a week ago that we need to do something soon because it is getting harder and harder to keep waiting.  I am sure if we are able to meet in real life, and we hit it off as I hope, waiting another year would not be immpossible, but, more waiting without a real life connection is going to be hard.

[Chicagoguy]

Skip the train.

[docetae]

and you, are you ready to move to Russia ?

[Sculpto]

I am not against moving to Russia.  Its not on the top of my list of places to live, but, I would do it to be with the right woman.

[Shadow]

I am not against moving to Russia.  Its not on the top of my list of places to live, but, I would do it to be with the right woman.

That is exactly her position as well. 

You should ask yourself what is important at this time. Meeting her in person will confirm if you have a future together. If it is postponed, there is a chance that it might fade out as there will be always one hundred reasons not to go.

[Sculpto]

Wow the last 12 hours have been a roller coaster that is for sure...

So, last night about 9pm California time I tried to call.  She likes it when I wake her up in the morning.  But, I got a shock when a man answered the phone.  My lousy Russian and his nonexistent English and we got no where.  It was odd though because he tried to talk to me, he sounded calm.. I hung up finally and proceeded to FREAK OUT~!

Then, I tried to calm myself down.  Breath Eric, breath... it didn't really work and I stared at the ceiling for several hours.  Finally I called at 2am my time, no answer.. then again at 4am.. and she answered!  Before I had a chance to say anything she said.. "Ereek, my roomate told me you called, he think you upset"  I said, "A, you never told me you had man roomate, you said only there was one girl"  She said, "Ereek, there four men live here too"  I said, "Why you never told me about before?"  She said, "Ereek, I tired now I tell you later, don't worry, all is ok, goodnight" and she hung up. 

Well... that didn't make me feel a lot better, but, I managed to force myself to sleep.

GI overslept a little and got into the office a little late.. and I was looking at AnastasiaAsh's site to get her number and ask her to help me with an interpreted call when I got the little "ding" on my cell phone that says new sms message.. it was "A".  So I called her immediately...

She said "Ereek.. I really sorry I a little sick and just wake up when you call and you not understand me"  I said, "Do you understand how I felt in my heart when I hear the voice of a man on your phone?"  She said, "Ereek of course I understand I very very sorry, only I forgot phone in kitchen and he answer, but you not worry anything he is only one roomate and, I not like it you don't believe me".  Classic Russian female strategy there huh fellas?    So, I said simply, "I didn't understand you before" and that was the end of that.  The truth is I do not doubt her at all.  I had been wondering how she could afford to be in Moscow and she kept avoiding explaining everything.  LOL if she only knew about some of the orgies I lived in during my University days...

Then, we talked about those currently on hold travel plans.. finally I get her to understand I have a ticket at a very good price on reservation ($1200 RT from SFO to Moscow) and if I do not purchase it very soon, as in today or tomorrow, it will probably be a lot more and it will mean less money to play with in Moscow, or, to come to Tomsk.  So, we set a "date" for tomorrow morning at this time to chat on Yahoo, which has been very limited since she got to Moscow and does not have her PC with her.  We will work out the details at that time, whether we will meet in Moscow or in Tomsk.

Then, she said something she has never said before.  She told me she was thinking about it all day yesterday, and, she has decided she will live with me where I want.  I told her the same thing.. USA, Russia, Mexico.. it doesn't matter where we live but if we are really the match we think we just need to be together.  She answered, "Yes yes! Kiss you, Kiss you, Kiss you, Kiss you, Kiss you!"  Usually I just get three.. 

So, I do have a question for the ladies... after giving it some thought as to why she didn't tell me about the four male roomates and only mentioned the one female roomate I came to the conclusion she never mentioned it because of two reasons.. one, because it was to her an insignificant detail because they are essentially random men that she didn't know before she arrived there and had no interest in, which leads to point two.. she didn't want to give me reason to worry because of point one.  Opinions please?   

On a different topic.. I went to Borders to try and find some Moscow guide books which as I am sure all of you know is VERY limited.  They had only three on the shelf.  One couldn't even really be called a guide book, it was more of a historical guide with very tourist oriented sightseeing points.  One was "LetsGo" from the Harvard press which is great for backpackers and student travellers and had a little bit of good info on how to stay cheap in Moscow, but the other one, and I am very sorry I forgot the name, had a ton of good info about the different areas.  After reading about the Arbats I was hooked!  It made me think about all those times in San Francisco when I have taken guests to the Haight Ashbury District and walked them past Janis Joplin or the Grateful Deads houses, except Dostaevsky and others would be the highlights.  I realized I could fall in love with a place like Moscow.  Sometimes I am amazed that even after three years of continuous practically obsessive interest in the FSU I still catch myself filled with misconceptions based on growing up during the Cold War.  It is hard to escape those TV images of Brezhnev atop the Kremlin wall observing the parade of military hardware, even after all this time since the collapse and my own on the ground experiences in Ukraine.