If I had it to do all over again, I dont think I would even leave the airport in

[docetae]

It will be interesting to see how the above will be affected by the stock market collapse now underway. If you think yesterday's stock market drop was bad in the United States, Russia was at least four times worse.

As my fiancee is saying, in Ukraine and Russia, there are people who earn money and people who have money.... they don't depend of the same economy...

[Misha]

As my fiancee is saying, in Ukraine and Russia, there are people who earn money and people who have money.... they don't depend of the same economy...

That is what they were also saying in 1997 

[BC]

I would say that only a small minority are desperate to leave their country. However, most women in the FSU want a good husband and a happy family. Many will consider a foreigner if they find the right person. My wife was not desperate to leave, but she simply had not found the man she was looking for in Russia.She left not out of desperation, but because she wanted to be with me.

And where would this 'small minority' seek exposure to WM?.. would that be in the same virtual space where WM seek FSUW?  Do tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of such women meet the criteria of 'small minority'?

'Finding the right person'...  I think if part of the immigration procedures were handled like a lottery.. 50% of marriage intended couples would move to his country, 50% to her country, chosen by the immigration officer flipping a coin, the imaginary desires of WM would dry up to the point of 'normality'.  Those accepting such a condition would likely represent couples truly committed to their relationships.

[Misha]

And where would this 'small minority' seek exposure to WM?.. would that be in the same virtual space where WM seek FSUW?  Do tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of such women meet the criteria of 'small minority'?

Fortunately, I was using a free Russian dating site, so I was meeting Russian women primarily looking for Russian men. The tens of thousands of women would still be a small minority when compared the the million plus women looking online.

[kievstar]

Very few Russians actually have money in the stock market in Russia or Ukraine.  So has little impact.  This is another blow to European investors for the most part.  But realesate is falling very fast right now around Ukraine and parts of Russia.  This will hurt.  Oil lower hurts too.  USA drives the World economy and when things are hard here it will spread to the rest of the World.   But is it really that hard in the USA right now - tons of high paying jobs available and mortgages are low at 5-6%.  I must hang out with a different crowd as I know no one who is hurting.  Maybe a 20% drop in stocks and houses but markets go up and down and best not to panic. 

[BC]

As my fiancee is saying, in Ukraine and Russia, there are people who earn money and people who have money.... they don't depend of the same economy...

Really thinking about it, not bad at all..

A lot of wage earners in the US are watching their stock based 401K plans dwindle, whereas the RU earners are buying/building houses.  

Those in RU AND US AND EU with considerable wealth are probably loosing.

Who is 'hit' the hardest?

My guess is the middle class wage earners, that not only lost value in their 'tended' investments and also will be hit with a huge bill in the future for government sponsored financial bailouts. A double whammy I say.

[BC]

Fortunately, I was using a free Russian dating site, so I was meeting Russian women primarily looking for Russian men. The tens of thousands of women would still be a small minority when compared the the million plus women looking online.

Would that be considered 'off the beaten path'?

[Blues Fairy]

the odds of finding a "good serious woman"...
I know many guys who were in the process of a fiancee visa or a spousal visa and the woman changed her mind and decided not to relocate. 

If anything, this indicates that RW take relocation more seriously and think twice before jumping across the pond.  Does it make them less "good and serious"?

[ScottinCrimea]

They did not discontinue a relationship with me, I discontinued relations with them.

I also want to repeat that there are good women in Russia and the Ukraine but the odds of finding a "good serious woman" to relocate increase if you look else where.

In MY OPINION, anyone can increase their odds by looking elsewhere based on MY OBSERVATIONS and therefore MY OPINION!  I know many guys who were in the process of a fiancee visa or a spousal visa and the woman changed her mind and decided not to relocate.  ALL these women were from Russia or a large city in the Ukraine.  I've never heard of a woman from other countries wanting to cancel a visa.  Once again MY OPINION based on MY OBSERVATIONS. 

Aren't the majority of FSU women who get involved in international dating either from Russia or the larger cities of Ukraine?  It only makes sense that one would see more failures in this group.  However, as a ratio as compared to women outside this group, I think it would be much more difficult to draw conclusions.

enot, It appears that others here have different opinions, experiences and observations.  They are not discounting yours by making sweeping conclusions but you appear to be discounting theirs by doing such.  Perhaps you can explain why your opinnions have more merit than those of the rest of us.

[Misha]

Would that be considered 'off the beaten path'?

Based on what I have read here, I would say yes. Most men here seemed to have looked on agency sites or on free sites for foreigners looking for FSU brides.

[Faux Pas]

In MY OPINION, anyone can increase their odds by looking elsewhere based on MY OBSERVATIONS and therefore MY OPINION!  I know many guys who were in the process of a fiancee visa or a spousal visa and the woman changed her mind and decided not to relocate.  ALL these women were from Russia or a large city in the Ukraine.  I've never heard of a woman from other countries wanting to cancel a visa.  Once again MY OPINION based on MY OBSERVATIONS. 

Many guys? How many guys are you talking about? What kind of sample size was this observation based on? It only stands to reason by the numbers that yes, one might see a higher number of failures from Russia and bigger cities in Ukraine simply because there are more relationships going on in these bigger cities. This would equate to population difference primarily. Russia is bigger than all other FSU countries and bigger Ukrainian cities alone have a higher population than say Moldova (guessing). Percentage wise I would just about wager, there is no difference. Thus no discernible difference in the ladies as well.

[docetae]

My suggestion is only that women in large city are more realistic and don't want to go with the first one... They are looking for good husband 

[BC]

My suggestion is only that women in large city are more realistic and don't want to go with the first one... They are looking for good husband 

My suggestion is that it will take Joe Schmuck a LOT more than just signing up at an agency or social to meet someone of notable consequence.

[Enot]

I don't know if you're willfully trying to ignore questions like Docetae's, but if you remove the part I bolded above there's nothing to debate, so long as you define as "serious" a woman who has made up her mind to leave her country first and foremost.

I don't think it's possible to know that "good" women exist in greater abundance in once place vs. another - simply because they don't.

To me serious means willing to relocate and wanting a marriage with a foreign man.

To me good means someone who is compatible with me or the person that is seeking a bride.

[Enot]

If anything, this indicates that RW take relocation more seriously and think twice before jumping across the pond.  Does it make them less "good and serious"?

Yes and it is my point exactly.  RW are not as serious as other women when it comes to relocating.  Therefore the odds of finding a foreign bride increase with other countries. 

Thanks for proving my point.

[Enot]

Aren't the majority of FSU women who get involved in international dating either from Russia or the larger cities of Ukraine?  It only makes sense that one would see more failures in this group.  However, as a ratio as compared to women outside this group, I think it would be much more difficult to draw conclusions.

enot, It appears that others here have different opinions, experiences and observations.  They are not discounting yours by making sweeping conclusions but you appear to be discounting theirs by doing such.  Perhaps you can explain why your opinnions have more merit than those of the rest of us.

As I said, this is my opinion based on my observations.  I'm not discounting anyone's opinion.  People are asking questions about my opinion and I am providing answers.  Nothing more nothing less.

It is fine that people have other opinions.  There are many ways to find a foreign bride (by searching specific or all countries, writing many visiting one, writing many visiting many, writing one visiting one, going with a plan, going without a plan ....).  I think you are confused, I respect other people's opinions but it appears they don't respect mine based on comments like, "Aren't the majority of FSU women who get involved in international dating either from Russia or the larger cities of Ukraine?  It only makes sense that one would see more failures in this group.  However, as a ratio as compared to women outside this group, I think it would be much more difficult to draw conclusions..

[Enot]

Many guys? Percentage wise I would just about wager, there is no difference. Thus no discernible difference in the ladies as well.

So many I lost count, at least 10.  I've never heard of any woman canceling a fiancee or spousal visa from Uzbekistan, Belarus, or Moldova.

[Enot]

My suggestion is only that women in large city are more realistic and don't want to go with the first one... They are looking for good husband 

Again, this proves my point.  RW aren't as serious about relocating as women from other countries.  It doesn't matter if it is the first or 10th guy they meet.

[ScottinCrimea]

Enot, you are free to express your opinion and to act on it, but when you state them as absolute truths, I have a problem with that.  There are many men here who have found wonderful wives from Russia and the larger cities of Ukraine who would not have had they believed your opinions were facts.

[Enot]

Enot, you are free to express your opinion and to act on it, but when you state them as absolute truths, I have a problem with that.  There are many men here who have found wonderful wives from Russia and the larger cities of Ukraine who would not have had they believed your opinions were facts.

I have said at least twice that there are "good and serious" women in Russia and larger cities of the Ukraine.  If someone want to take the RW/UW approach then that is fine, I have no problem with this.  I'm only talking about increasing your odds which is MY OPINION based on MY OBSERVATIONS.  Two members said that RW are not as serious about relocating which proves my point so I am not the only one with this opinion.

[msmoby_ru]

I have said at least twice that there are "good and serious" women in Russia and larger cities of the Ukraine.  If someone want to take the RW/UW approach then that is fine, I have no problem with this.  I'm only talking about increasing your odds which is MY OPINION based on MY OBSERVATIONS.  Two members said that RW are not as serious about relocating which proves my point so I am not the only one with this opinion.

Hi Enot

This has become an interesting thread... on another board, I'm having a "ding dong" with a Russian male member - living in the US - earning his way finding suitable FSU women - who says "If I was looking, I'd only look in Russia or Belarus, period" :-))

Now bearing in mind he is "advising" men and (presumably ladies outside his personal preference areas) I think his opinion somewhat "eccentric".. but I have to say your opposite opinion - re Russia - is JUST as "overgeneralised" ...

This Russian guy is giving examples that "prove" his point, too ....

The reality is that it is down to the LADY - not where she's from.... 

[kievstar]

Every city I have a lived in the USA has a big number of happy Russian / American marriages.

If you want to increase your odds you need to look in the mirror and improve on your flaws.  Continuous improvement is important.  Everybody should do this.  You also should take advise from others on things to improve your not aware of.  The days jumping off a plane and saying here I am lets get married are over - not sure if there were ever times like this.  But I think a lot guys on there first visit think there doing these women a favor by marrying them.  Some guys never learn.

Women want to be swept of their feet by the man of their dreams.  You need to win her heart and keep her trust and keep her happy.  Guys also need to date in their league and focus more effort on face to face than letter campaign.  You also need money to make this work and go often on visits (I know exceptions but this is not cheap dating).  

I find dating girls in Ukraine, western Europe, USA to be the same.  You have gold diggers, family girls, career orientated girls.  You can find any type of girl in any country.  But it takes a special man who can date any type of woman.  

[groovlstk]

Seems to me your point hinges on how you define two words, SERIOUS and GOOD, which you are playing fast and loose with, sort of like the marketing dander seen on agency websites

To me serious means willing to relocate and wanting a marriage with a foreign man.

A woman who sets her primary goal as relocation wants out of Dodge first and foremost; your relationship is, at best, secondary. Your long-term prospects are, at best, murky.

To me good means someone who is compatible with me or the person that is seeking a bride.

Are you serious? Someone is "good" because they are seeking a bride, or because they are compatible with you? The first is ridiculous, the second so objective as to apply to no one but yourself.

I've seen this sort of post before, similar to guys who go to Kiev or Moscow and are disappointed the women have no interest in them and could care less about their blue passports. He then travels to some tiny, far-off city where the impoverished women throw themselves at his feet - presumably "good" and "serious" women, of course Then he comes to RWD and posts bitterly about how the women in Moscow and Kiev are all spoiled gold-diggers, not serious, and that guys looking for a true soulmate should travel to xyz, if they can find it on a map.  The alternative to this little illusion - that he has little to offer a prospective mate other than a green card, is way too hard to swallow.

[Diplomacy]

Kievstar stated exactly my views.  It is funny that someone will say that they marry for what they get from the marriage.  Is that not what we all do?  You get what you put into it.  These are women that have been lied to and generation after generation of being told things that never seen the light of day.

Trust is hard to get, but once you do then they are plenty of amazing women.  I wanted a strong woman, capable of handling anything.  I wanted a union that made us better than we are alone. 

The interesting part that does not seem discussed is the new rich.  They throw in the face of the people how rich they are and savor making themselves feel better at the expense of others.  It is quite a site to see a Porsche splash some poor pensioner trying to find any glass they can.

I would think looking for a city girl if you live in the city is a good idea, and the opposite if that is true.  I got to think going there and throwing money around has to remind them of the New Rich, and that is a turn off.

Treat them how you want to be treated, and then use your instincts.

[Faux Pas]

So many I lost count, at least 10.  I've never heard of any woman canceling a fiancee or spousal visa from Uzbekistan, Belarus, or Moldova.

OK, so you haven't "heard" of any women from Uzbek, Belarus or Moldova canceling a fiance or spousal visa, so in your mind of absolutes, there isn't any. You lost count at, of least 10 guys that got dumped by ladies from bigger cities of Ukraine and Russia so lets double that and "assume" there are 20? Enot, are you aware there are over 30,000 K-1 spousal finances entering the US every year? Let's again "assume" that only 1/3  of those are eastern block fiances. Of that 10,000 lets state half or 5000 are from Russia and bigger cities of Ukraine which is in all likelihood a very small figure. Those figures say that .0004% of the ladies/fiances of Russia and bigger cities of Ukraine cancel their K-1. Doesn't look like the odds are all that bad does it?

That math is as fuzzy and ridiculous as you're "increasing the odds" statement, yet as valid as your observation and opinion. I would propose it was at least as much fault of the petitioner as it was the fiance. Probably more fault of their own. Your opinion and observation appears to be based on a very questionable idea that all the petitioners are really great guys and a good catch, so much so that any Ukrainian or Russian lady would snatch them up. I put forward to you, that just isn't the case.

With your later post I don't know if you were referring to you or the "at least" 10 other guys that got dumped but it's quite possible they are not cut from the needed cloth to catch a good RW.